Porsche builds new flat four engine

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The Porsche of old died when they ditched the air-cooled engines and started making SUVs anyway. No big loss. There are still plenty of proper old-school Porsches around to own at some point.

They're still making flat 4s at least. They could have easily used Audi/VW's inline 4s.
 
I think its good. Shows that any manufacture can be fairly economical. Perhaps cheaper too?
 
Rear-engined premium hatchback anyone? :p
 
Grand Prix
The Porsche of old died when they ditched the air-cooled engines and started making SUVs anyway. No big loss. There are still plenty of proper old-school Porsches around to own at some point.

They're still making flat 4s at least. They could have easily used Audi/VW's inline 4s.
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They have to stick with the boxer engine as an inline 4 would put the engine weight higher up and kill their cars handling.
 
I actually rather like this idea...

But as a 912 revival. It would step on the toes of the Boxter/Cayman, yes, but I can see it being useful. It would be lighter than the Boxter/Cayman (only 100lbs difference between a Carrera coupe and a base Cayman as is) by way of being lower spec with a lower cylinder count, could be assembled right with the 911s, etc etc... While still offering the "feel" of a "proper" Porsche.
 
BigYoSpeck
They have to stick with the boxer engine as an inline 4 would put the engine weight higher up and kill their cars handling.
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True. However, take a look at Porsche's history (not just the company, but the Dr. of engineering himself, and his son). The Auto Union GP cars, the Kubelwagens, the VW Bus, the Beetle, the 917, the 550 Spyder... Would any of those come across as being "good handling" to you? :lol: Porsche got to where they are today because of the speed, the practicality, and the thrills (read: danger) the RR layout offered. Anyone could drive a car fast, but it took some big ones to quickly drive a machine of the Porsche philosophy.

Unfortunately, these days Porsche has to sell SUVs and hairdresser's cars to stay alive. Some of the Porsche lunacy is still intact in cars like the GT2, but the company has lost much of its character. The fact the 911 has become a generic shape of a car only makes things worse.

I agree with Rotary Junkie that a modern take on the 912 would be pretty awesome though. :D
 
Hammond's face when:
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Grand Prix
True. However, take a look at Porsche's history (not just the company, but the Dr. of engineering himself, and his son). The Auto Union GP cars, the Kubelwagens, the VW Bus, the Beetle, the 917, the 550 Spyder... Would any of those come across as being "good handling" to you? :lol: Porsche got to where they are today because of the speed, the practicality, and the thrills (read: danger) the RR layout offered. Anyone could drive a car fast, but it took some big ones to quickly drive a machine of the Porsche philosophy.

Unfortunately, these days Porsche has to sell SUVs and hairdresser's cars to stay alive. Some of the Porsche lunacy is still intact in cars like the GT2, but the company has lost much of its character. The fact the 911 has become a generic shape of a car only makes things worse.
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917 & 550 are mid engined, not rear engined... and according to Richard Attwood who drove the 1st 917 to win Le Mans (Porsche's 1st outright victory), it handled very nicely once they sorted out some rear end lift issues (I met him at a Porsche event late last year).

As regards Porsche's character... it's still there in spades.

Cayenne and Panamera apart, the rest of Porsche line up are proper drivers cars... and I include the Boxter in that as it consistently gets high ratings in magazine road tests for performance & handling... easy to call any convertible a 'hairdressers car', but there's a huge market for them.

The 911 is still a wonderful car. Some may not like the generic styling updates, but to drive they are wonderful and overall they probably offer the best mix of everyday performance and praticality of any sports car on the market. And the GT3RS was voted best drivers car in 2010 by both EVO and Autocar.

As regards a flat 4 for future Porsches... well it can only be a good thing. More pace, more torque, lighter, better economy, lower emissions... it's the future.
 
what, you guys DIDN'T expect this? it's a combination of ginormous fuel prices and pollution reduction laws.
 
kikie
911 TDI is the future. :D
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It would only sell if people wanted one specifically, and never for example because of a customer ambivalent about what powers their car but they just want the best performance, handling and value for money. Diesel cant offer any of those, especially value for money they are too expensive.
I can't see a 911 owner doing the 20,000 miles a year needed to make it a consideration.
 
Diesel is a perfect fuel for family cars and big exces, but it just doesn't work in sports cars.
 
A perfect example of that is in motorsport where all the rules for weight/engine size/aspiration etc had to be changed to make diesel actually competitive. And they are hugely expensive in comparison.
 
I think diesel has demonstrated it's strength in motorsports... WTCC & Le Mans are prime examples.

But motorsports is different as the primary objective is winning.

In road cars the opportunities to use all the performance of even a reasonably quick car are limited... so you need something else to make the experience enjoyable... and diesel engines just don't offer the same level of joy as high powered, normally aspirated petrol engines with decent throttle response and a slick manual box.
 
I disagree I think it has demonstrated it's weakness, because of the regulation changes required.
There are a few people I think who like diesels because they are diesels, they often use the word effortless and easy. Maybe if they wanted the image of a 911 and the lazy driving of a diesel they would buy it. But to me it would be a waste of a car.
 
Adamgp
Also the bogus new U.S. CAFE rules.
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that's what they said about the CAFE rules in the eighties, which only required a 25 MPG max. and what happened then? 3 speed slushbox FWD's and engines tuned down so that a hot car sported a 190 HP engine...with a turbo on it!
 
blaaah
I disagree I think it has demonstrated it's weakness, because of the regulation changes required.
There are a few people I think who like diesels because they are diesels, they often use the word effortless and easy. Maybe if they wanted the image of a 911 and the lazy driving of a diesel they would buy it. But to me it would be a waste of a car.
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I don't know enough about the regulation details, so I'll not argue, but I'm sure a diesel car has won Le Mans for the past few years ;)

I like diesels. My main car is a diesel ('08 Mondeo 2.2Tdci... 175bhp, 300ft/lb), and my previous 2 company cars were diesel. It's a fine fuel for everyday transport where the driving experience isn't as important as economy. My Mondeo is 28 months old and has covered 110,000 miles at 40mpg. Even after jumping straight in to it out of the Porsche it feels adequately fast, and the rush of torque at 2k in 3/4/5th gears is always a surprise to other motorists :)

Still has no place in a sports car though.
 
The diesel won because the engine was much bigger than the petrol engines, they also added weight ballast to the petrol cars. In other cases the diesel was allowed to be turbocharged and the petrol was not allowed a turbo...
 
Stotty
I don't know enough about the regulation details, so I'll not argue, but I'm sure a diesel car has won Le Mans for the past few years ;)
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Petrol, gasoline, whatever you want to call it regulations:

4000 cc turbocharged, 6000 cc normally aspirated
33,8 mm air restrictor
1,67 bar maximum boost

Diesel regulations:

5500 cc turbocharged (37,5% more)
37,8mm air restrictor (25% more)
2,54 bar maximum boost (52% more)

That's what diesel needs to beat their "orthodox" counterparts. Some of the regulations have probably been tweaked slightly but the overall principle - a lot more boost into a much larger engine through a noticably larger restrictor - remains.

But on topic, I actually like the change. Call it returning to the roots as the first Porsche cars had flat fours.
 
The title of this thread really needs changing, it's not changing to flat-fours. It's built one and is going to inlcude it in it's line-up not have every model powered by this engine.

If it is used in the 911 in the future, I imagine it will be after exhausting all possible avenues with turbocharged version of the Metzger six.
 
Duffers917K
The title of this thread really needs changing, it's not changing to flat-fours. It's built one and is going to inlcude it in it's line-up not have every model powered by this engine.

If it is used in the 911 in the future, I imagine it will be after exhausting all possible avenues with turbocharged version of the Metzger six.
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I think the Metzger 6 is pretty much done... I'm sure I read that the next generation of 911's (991) will not use Metzgers at all, though I'm not 100% sure this is true for the GT models.


EDIT.... I just saw this on Autocar which seemed relevent to the discussion...

The four-cylinder unit is being seen as an indirect replacement for the least powerful version of BMW’s classic 3.0-litre in-line six-cylinder petrol engine.

The new direct-injection unit, codenamed N20, is set to make its debut in the new X1xDrive28i at the Geneva motor show in March. The twin-scroll turbocharged motor has a 1997cc capacity but produces 242bhp at 5000rpm and 258lb ft at 1250rpm. That’s 12bhp less but 29lb ft more than the existing X1xDrive28i’s naturally aspirated 3.0-litre straight six and enough to take the new model from 0-62mph in 6.1sec and up to a top speed of 149mph.

Combined cycle fuel economy has been improved by 16 per cent, at an average 35.7mpg, with CO2 emissions down by 33g/km at 186g/km.
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Seems like we might be seeing the beginning of the end of the classic BMW 3.0 straight six.
 
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Porsche (Dürheimer) said they are going to stop using the Mezger GT1 block and start using the 9A1. I think the GT2 RS is going to be the last car with the GT1. The 9A1 does seem like it will technically be a better engine but at this point it has not been proven so no one really knows...
 

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