Power limiter ruined engine building for you guys?

[JaySin85]

Wow, Larry is so much better then the OP. I guess I would consider common sense, the ability to realize he meant "could have" instead of "could of". That's just me though, I'm not going to go on and on, about how I think I'm better then someone that misuses the English language.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

To me the only reason the power limiter was added to the game was because the PP was flawed, so instead of tweaking it to try and get it right they took the easy way out by adding this limiter.

Surely any system would be flawed though. No matter how much it was tweaked there's always going to be cars that won't fit the trend they're supposed to. Given the scale of the game it just strikes me as a "you can't please everyone" issue - I bet you no matter what system PD came up with there will always be one car at the top of the leaderboards for time trials, and there will always be tricks that means things don't work out as intended. For some systems are there to be exploited, and in my experience the power limiter hasn't seriously detracted from the game, either through silly limiting, or defeating the point of upgrading, whilst adding a lot more variation in car selections when it comes to events/online.

 

[Rudenut]

Don't get me wrong it's a very handy feature for GT to have, has it ruined the enjoyment of constructing your own build though?

Without the power limiter it comes down to who has the best engine build/tune to find those extra tenths, I just think there could of been a better way for cars to have the correct PP/specs for racing, maybe getting rid of the oil change would have been a better option.

What do you guys think? Do you have any ideas of your own that would of been better than the power limiter option?

This option probably hurts the tuners out there because there is no such thing as having your own build with this option PD installed.

This is not a rant in any way as I like the game as it is, but surely there were better options than this feature. Like I said it takes away the fun and enjoyment of building your own car.👍

I think there is some data that shows the power limiter is worse than properly tuning. Something about high torque and low hp. That being said...I' like to limit it in lounges.

 

[Tornado]

I'm not taking anything that person has to say seriously.

I make it a habit to not take anyone who has the balls to look down on other members for making grammar mistakes when their own post is riddled with spelling errors seriously either.

Teach us all, wise one.

Not exactly the most detailed of rebuttals.

As I said in my first post this is not a rant as I like the game as it is, all I wanted to know was if any of you guys had any ideas of what could be done to change this. As usual though some of the regulars that like to try and cause an argument turn up in here to do just that.

Of course it's not a rant. It's just you stating that you don't like something for ill-defined reasons that you refuse to elaborate on and going out of your way to defend your statement (still without elaborating on it) when people don't agree with you about it. Oh, and (of course) it's everyone else's fault that they don't agree with you; because only like-minded people are allowed to post in this thread when you state something controversial.

 

[crowhop]

Not exactly the most detailed of rebuttals.

Your posts not-so-subtly state that you have it all figured out and everyone else is wrong on this subject of opinion.
There's nothing anyone could say to you anyway.
It is ridiculous. No rebuttal needed.

 

[Tornado]

Your posts not-so-subtly state that you have it all figured out and everyone else is wrong on this subject of opinion.
There's nothing anyone could say to you anyway.
It is ridiculous. No rebuttal needed.

First of all, stop being so hypocritical. Of course I find what the OP is saying to be incorrect. That's why I've been trying to figure out why he's been saying it, and why I find the attitude of his last post so disappointing. You on the other hand haven't bothered to explain any of your points made in this thread, but have been quite happy to condemn those that don't align with yours.




Second of all, the ideas in the OP are justified on several logical premises (that the engine limiter ruins engine tuning, that you have to max tune your engines and restrict them to be competitive, and that the limiter needs to have restrictions in how much it can be used and what parts it effects because otherwise it just works as a crutch for the PP system) that have been challenged multiple times by multiple people because a couple of them simply aren't accurate. No one who supports the OP has made any effort to rebut those challenges, however; and have instead just gone to repeating themselves ad nauseum.

Which I suppose just means "stop being hypocritical" in more detail.

 

[crowhop]

Where have I condemned those whose opinions differed from mine?

For the second time in this thread...
In the "real world" it would be illogical to max modify a car only then turn around and max limit it. To me, this idea makes no sense. Yet, there are some benefits of doing this in GT5. Therefore, I agree that the power limiting system shows a flaw in the game's tuning programming.
Note: the reasons why I think this is an issue may or may not align with others.

 

[Fizix]

I'm no expert but I was under the impression that the power limiter pancakes the power curve, which is bad, ergo it's better to fine tune to where you want the PP and use the power limited for fine adjustment (to say, strip a few PP off).

That's what I always do anyway, I never over use the power limiter, I elect for a specific tune and setup for that car for a specific PP spec.

Like my ACR tuned to 600 PP, with it's own specific setup feels more natural and performs better than my max tuned ACR limited to 600PP.

The limited ACR seems more slippy (maybe due to the torque), and seems to lag on acceleration more as you start to reach speed.

 

[Nikked]

Imagine if engine tuning on Gt5 was actually that...

eg: Ability to adjust timing, AFR's, boost pressure etc

 

[GTP_Plato]

Whats the point of a PP system being in place if you can modify the PP with the power limiter? It defeats the object of having a PP system in the first place. A PP system is designed so that cars are equally competitive (or close enough) at the same spec.

With this feature you can bring cars down to the same class that doesn't belong there, how can you guys say there is nothing wrong with this? Race cars being used in the same class as road cars

Where does this happen in the real world? For that matter do you see the other console game doing this?

At this time the other game is preparing an update to the PI to sort out issues with cars being dominant in a certain class, I don't see them going the same route as what PD have here to fix the games issues do you?

 

[rams1de]

With this feature you can bring cars down to the same class that doesn't belong there, how can you guys say there is nothing wrong with this? Race cars being used in the same class as road cars

It is quite weird.

 

[kilttraeger]

Whats the point of a PP system being in place if you can modify the PP with the power limiter? It defeats the object of having a PP system in the first place. A PP system is designed so that cars are equally competitive (or close enough) at the same spec.

And this is the part I do not get. PP is an indication on the potential overall performance of the car. Bar a few exceptions (Caterham anyone?), it is working quite nicely.
Why should one not use the power limiter to match a given PP range? If you do it sensibly (i.e. 5% max), it does not destroy the car's character.
If someone is overdoing it, he will be punished (as already mentioned in this thread) with lack in HP and torque, compared to properly tuning the car for a given PP.

With this feature you can bring cars down to the same class that doesn't belong there, how can you guys say there is nothing wrong with this? Race cars being used in the same class as road cars

That's responsibility of whoever is hosting the lobby and has got nothing to do with PP specifically. Race cars will outrun road cars in the bends, but will get destroyed on the straights. Which one will be quicker overall only depends on the track.

TL;DR - what exactly is your problem using the power limiter for a given PP range again?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think the power limiter should be restricted to 90-95%. That way you can't get seriously under tuned cars and still most of the raw power of the engine is used. The big problem for seasonal time trials is cars that the ones dominating are not the most normal cars, very limited editions or concept cars. I don't like the engine breaking in, really annoying for time trials too and guess for people who are trying to online race in similar stock cars. There should be an option to drive cars from your own garage stock online or brand new with the ability to add parts if you want. Will make it more fairer for people.

I don't do much racing online, but have recently started to as I got more people on my friends list now. I prefer driving the same cars so the stock arcade garage cars is the way to go for me. Then I will know it is because I suck at driving I lost or was reasonably good at driving I won.

 

[Tornado]

Whats the point of a PP system being in place if you can modify the PP with the power limiter? It defeats the object of having a PP system in the first place.

You still haven't explained how this is the case. The engine limiter is not a magic win button when you use it to get under a PP level; and it is entirely possible (and easy) to ruin a car by using it too much.

With this feature you can bring cars down to the same class that doesn't belong there, how can you guys say there is nothing wrong with this? Race cars being used in the same class as road cars

Where does this happen in the real world? For that matter do you see the other console game doing this?

That has nothing to do with the engine limiter and everything to do with the room host.

 

[Rdp616]

That's the thing. I never get the sense i'm bulding a motor tho. Stage 3 everything..Done Except exhausts. The engine building/tuning on IHRA Drag Racing 2 was the most realistic i've ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3TtLlinc0Q

Tho some of the engine setups you could do were unrealistic. It let you tune your motor to the T. If you didn't have your setup right you could blow the motor. Or it just wouldn't run right.

If it were possible to do something like this in GT5..I woudn't have a life.

Basically what i'm saying is, if this system were in gt5 you could have different rules in races. I.e Engine displacement, Cylinders, fuel, turbo or n/a. Not just some PP system..

 

[0ldman279]

I don't like the fact that level 1-2-3 NA tuning is a permanent change to the car. If you build purpose built race car (like I have) and then get another car, you just rebuild the engine in the former race car back to street specs, tada! Costs nearly the same as building a race engine, but now it has torque below 3000RPM.

In GT1 and 2 you could swap between NA builds easily, which is essentially installing a different camshaft and/or pistons. In GT5 apparently the new engine is a fixed item and can no longer be changed.

I could understand it if we had to buy the NA tune level 2 again to have the low end torque and flatter power curve than the NA 3, but not having the option at all is a bit of a downer.

To put it plainly, I would like to build a Griffith 500 to the max for one race and tune the engine down again for another for a price. We have car maintenance built into the game, rebuild the engine, work the body, oil changes, etc, but we can't rebuild the engine to stock specs or NA 2 specs when we effectively start over from scratch?

Why not?

 

[Sach]

I think the pp being implimented was the right way to go. Relying solely on power and weight restrictions caused most online rooms to end up with everyone using the same lightest car that could reach the hp cap to be used. It caused little cariations in car selection. Example: 1000kg 400hp= everyone driving an nsx-r with nothing else able to come close. With pp, heavier cars are given more horsepower, and with a good tune and driver could overcome the nsxr. Thats where a good tune can make the difference.

Eh, I agree that you saw the same cars before, but you see the same cars now. The PP system just produces a variation of the same dilemma.

 

[SavageEvil]

Eh, I agree that you saw the same cars before, but you see the same cars now. The PP system just produces a variation of the same dilemma.

It's just that everyone tends to stick to powerhouse/leaderboard cars. No sense of individuality really, just the usual apple syndrome. Oh well, not a problem for me as I don't really care either way.