Power Loss Over the Series

[FRR35H]

This is something I pretty much noticed right away, and it's kind of dissapointing.
My first GT experience was way back in GT1, when I took command of a '92 GTO Twin Turbo. After FULL modification, this baby pumped out 900+ HP.

GT2 comes along and the car gets a max HP of around about 700HPmax in some models but mostly around 600HP for most.

GT3 the car (now only the '95 up get featured in GT) gets 1000HP if I recall correctly.

GT4 800HP+. Which was brilliant because the car will do an 8 sec 1/4mile time no worries.

So along comes GT5 and I think to myself, "awsome! I get to make a replica of the GTO in GT4 or better still GT3!" No. I get a max HP of about 650BHP.

Which is good for Super GT races and all but, WHERE DID THE POWER GO?!
This goes for other cars to don't get me wrong. Skylines, Evo's, Silvias etc. all suffered power losses in one form or the other..
I really hope that we get more modification options in future updates. Ones that increase power like they used to. Others that bring back mods from the past GT's too.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE GT5! I just feel we aren't getting EVERYTHING we should.

 

[Coxis]

Could it be because tuning is more realistic now?

 

[Tornado]

While I agree that GT5 is lacking in the tuning department (and not, strictly speaking, due to increases in realism), I do have to say that GT3 had a tendency to be a bit over the top in regards to what it allowed you to do.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Could it be because tuning is more realistic now?

No!

I completely agree with OP.

An insane amount of Hp is possible with many of these cars in real life, it is realistic to have over 1000hp easily.
The gt5, a game comes along, and only allows sensible tunes? :S
Nobody said we were after reliable or sensible tuning.

They really should make high HP tunes available, just like in real life! $

The compriomise being a laggy and unreliable engine, increased weight and higher fuel consumption.
A good tuner will know power is not everything anyway, and many times the more senstibe tunes with a lower HP are quicker around certain tracks.

BUt we should have the option to increase the HP to over 1000 if that is our driving style.

In real life 1000HP+ GTRs and Supras with a modified stock engine are very common. In gt5, where we should have each and every resource possible available, you can only get 600hp or so out of the same cars. Blasphemy!

 

[MadBullBunny]

Tuning is way off. Considering Kaz is a Ford GT fan he should've realised its easy to push a Ford GT to 1000+hp. I mean theres so many videos of it on youtube where people just slap two turbos on the engine with the super charger on it and push out insane hp. When I got the game I was hoping to have cars that it takes throttle control. Spinning tires at 200mph but nope. Can't do any of that.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Tuning is way off. Considering Kaz is a Ford GT fan he should've realised its easy to push a Ford GT to 1000+hp.

Yes! I dont know wht they are so worried about. They should allow more tuning options like a stage 4 turbo and engine tune, it should be real easy to alter some measly HP figures for a car.

The race cars will still be quicker around tracks from the better chassis lighter weight and more downforce (so hardcore race car fanboys wont be up in arms of a GTR beating a track bred car), but the extreme HP road cars should be able to own them on the straight. This is actually the case in real life.

 

[entropy731]

Turn 10 planted moles in Japan decades ago...

 

[xSNAKEx]

Turn 10 planted moles in Japan decades ago...

Lol, if turn10 actually hired guys to sabbotage gt5 then they did the best inside job in history.

 

[GDII]

I think it would be hard to getting a game to be as tuneable as IRL. With turbo engines you can get a lot of power out of any given engine but how long will it last running that much power? Yes the GTO in the OP should be pushing out closer to 800-900hp but for some engines that might not work too well.

Take the Suzuki Escudo, it has 1000hp+ from a 2.5 V6. Even though it is a race car, that is a mad amount of power to get from an engine that size.
When you look at the power curve it is very steep and has a small RPM range of peak power. This is not the best setup for track cars as getting power out of corners is much harder than if you have a flatter power curve. People who have driven this car will know what I mean. Putting big turbos on engines to get big power causes this power curve to occurre.

If you look at GT4s Original turbo upgrade you could get almost the same power as a stage 3/4? turbo upgrade but it would push the power and torque curves down the RPM to get better usable power.

It is possible to get big power but at the cost of engine reliability (something not modeled in GT5(or is it? not used the damage system much to see if I would melt a piston or throw a rod through the block and kill my engine.))and being good for track driving instead of drag racing.

Also power depends on the engine timing, boost pressure, fuel type, engine components and fuel maps.

In the end it's a game and made for many people of different understandings of tuning. I have a basic to moderate understanding of engine and suspension tuning but not enough to know exactly what to do with each engine.

I like the GT series because when you tune your car you can see/feel the difference. Sometimes you can make your car worse than what it was.

 

[FRR35H]

I think it would be hard to getting a game to be as tuneable as IRL. With turbo engines you can get a lot of power out of any given engine but how long will it last running that much power? Yes the GTO in the OP should be pushing out closer to 800-900hp but for some engines that might not work too well.

Take the Suzuki Escudo, it has 1000hp+ from a 2.5 V6. Even though it is a race car, that is a mad amount of power to get from an engine that size.
When you look at the power curve it is very steep and has a small RPM range of peak power. This is not the best setup for track cars as getting power out of corners is much harder than if you have a flatter power curve. People who have driven this car will know what I mean. Putting big turbos on engines to get big power causes this power curve to occurre.

If you look at GT4s Original turbo upgrade you could get almost the same power as a stage 3/4? turbo upgrade but it would push the power and torque curves down the RPM to get better usable power.

It is possible to get big power but at the cost of engine reliability (something not modeled in GT5(or is it? not used the damage system much to see if I would melt a piston or throw a rod through the block and kill my engine.))and being good for track driving instead of drag racing.

Also power depends on the engine timing, boost pressure, fuel type, engine components and fuel maps.

In the end it's a game and made for many people of different understandings of tuning. I have a basic to moderate understanding of engine and suspension tuning but not enough to know exactly what to do with each engine.

I like the GT series because when you tune your car you can see/feel the difference. Sometimes you can make your car worse than what it was.

Yes, but that's not the point.
The point is that there are power figures that can easily be achieved in RL with cars that are in GT5 that are not being replicated into GT5 eg. Pit Road M GTO http://octanereport.com/tuned-cars/2011/01/20/900hp-pit-road-m-9-second-gto-3000gt.html
As i mentioned in OP, GT4 had a 800+HP GTO that could reach tremendous power and speed. Why not bring these power figures back?

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

This man speaks the truth!

 

[GDII]

Yes i went off on tangent.

It does seem odd that the power has dropped on many cars. There are a lot of odd things in GT5 that is missing/changed for the worse.

I remember back before GT5 released, Kaz said the tuning would be more indepth but I found it less. Take the racing gearbox not being able to change each gear ratio. I know it will be fixed but it shouldn't have needed to be.

 

[entropy731]

I think it would be hard to getting a game to be as tuneable as IRL. With turbo engines you can get a lot of power out of any given engine but how long will it last running that much power? Yes the GTO in the OP should be pushing out closer to 800-900hp but for some engines that might not work too well.

Take the Suzuki Escudo, it has 1000hp+ from a 2.5 V6. Even though it is a race car, that is a mad amount of power to get from an engine that size.
When you look at the power curve it is very steep and has a small RPM range of peak power. This is not the best setup for track cars as getting power out of corners is much harder than if you have a flatter power curve. People who have driven this car will know what I mean. Putting big turbos on engines to get big power causes this power curve to occurre.

If you look at GT4s Original turbo upgrade you could get almost the same power as a stage 3/4? turbo upgrade but it would push the power and torque curves down the RPM to get better usable power.

It is possible to get big power but at the cost of engine reliability (something not modeled in GT5(or is it? not used the damage system much to see if I would melt a piston or throw a rod through the block and kill my engine.))and being good for track driving instead of drag racing.

Also power depends on the engine timing, boost pressure, fuel type, engine components and fuel maps.

In the end it's a game and made for many people of different understandings of tuning. I have a basic to moderate understanding of engine and suspension tuning but not enough to know exactly what to do with each engine.

I like the GT series because when you tune your car you can see/feel the difference. Sometimes you can make your car worse than what it was.

Long post -1

If ze germans can get 1001 HP out of a beetle, how hard can it be, and before anyone runs their mouth about technological marvel, marvel at strap 4 big turbos to anything and you will get 1000 hp easy. And as for the reliability comment, you basically have to rebuild the entire veyron ever couple of miles.

 

[FRR35H]

Yes i went off on tangent.

It does seem odd that the power has dropped on many cars. There are a lot of odd things in GT5 that is missing/changed for the worse.

I remember back before GT5 released, Kaz said the tuning would be more indepth but I found it less. Take the racing gearbox not being able to change each gear ratio. I know it will be fixed but it shouldn't have needed to be.

EXACTLY!
Look at another example: The 350z/370z range. Did you know, that out of the WHOLE range of Z's in the game (not including 300zx) only 2 are Turbo capable. One is the OPTION Stream so it doesn't technically count because its a tuned car plus its an RB26 motor, the other is the NISMO Z Spec Z.
Now I know, you know, just about EVERYBODY knows that in RL, TT350Z's, are definately are possibility, but not in GT5. Why?

 

[GDII]

EXACTLY!
Look at another example: The 350z/370z range. Did you know, that out of the WHOLE range of Z's in the game (not including 300zx) only 2 are Turbo capable. One is the OPTION Stream so it doesn't technically count because its a tuned car plus its an RB26 motor, the other is the NISMO Z Spec Z.
Now I know, you know, just about EVERYBODY knows that in RL, TT350Z's, are definately are possibility, but not in GT5. Why?

I haven't got any 350/370Zs so I didn't know that. Not cool.

 

[FRR35H]

I haven't got any 350/370Zs so I didn't know that. Not cool.

Yeh I already made a post on this before. Was frustrating because, again in GT4 it was definately possible.

 

[Mafz]

Agree with OP, my fully tuned skyline and supra have only 650 ish horsepower. I don't bother upgrading power much these days, it's not as fun as it used to be.

Reliability isn't an excuse, since GT5 engines are eternally reliable. But of course it should be done realisticly, your not gonna get 1000hp from a GTi, but you will from a GTR.

Do you think it would be cool to combine turbo's and supercharger's since it can be done in real life? What about combining small and big turbo's like that BMW 5 Series deisel?

My Fiat 500 classic 90HP, you need to ride the clutch to get it going. That definately needs a supercharger.

 

[Basilea]

hmmm isn't this just about numbers? As long as your car is fast and competitive... Would you be pleased if PD just added 20% more power to each tuning part and the HP is above 1000? The car wouldn't handle different, though.

 

[Yev]

Hm...I remember in GT1 that Nissan Skyline GTR R33 had 1000+ HP.
So I was thinking "cool, i'll remake it on GT5", so I did but it "only" gave 650ish.
I really think that the tuning is made more realistic now, I mean, I know that R33's engine can produce 1000+ in real life but it wouldn't last long.
Imagine this, if they put 1000 hp you'd have to overhaul the engine after every race.
I'm happy with 650 though, the car is still a beast.

 

[FRR35H]

Hm...I remember in GT1 that Nissan Skyline GTR R33 had 1000+ HP.
So I was thinking "cool, i'll remake it on GT5", so I did but it "only" gave 650ish.
I really think that the tuning is made more realistic now, I mean, I know that R33's engine can produce 1000+ in real life but it wouldn't last long.
Imagine this, if they put 1000 hp you'd have to overhaul the engine after every race.
I'm happy with 650 though, the car is still a beast.

Fair enough, but realism is not limited. If we had limits on reality, we'd probably be all smashing rocks together to try and make fire.
Reality is, we CAN make 1000+HP GTR's and GTO's. GT5 being the "REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR" should easily be able to replicate that because the "DRIVING" part involves driving cars that you build, and if you want to build and drive a car the replicates reality (like GT used to allow) you should be able to.

 

[Tommy_861]

.........
An insane amount of Hp is possible with many of these cars in real life, it is realistic to have over 1000hp easily.
......

Sorry but I just had to call out this statement. Theres probably only 2 or 3 GTO/300GTs on the planet with anywhere near 1000HP, and getting them there was nowhere near easy.

The upgrades even in GT5 get to be tremendously unrealistic, but they are there, and they aren't as unrealistic as they were.

 

[WhitePhoenix]

I too remember those power rating and it's true it's "doable"

but easy?
if you get on titan motorsport's site, you'll notice some recommandation about race-built supra engines...
with hight lift cams rotating faster than stock (2 different things), and with tighter tolerances in the parts fitment, you'll need a complete disassembly and reassembly (with some new parts everytime) every couple of hours

I met a guy with a 1030 hp supra. (whp... so about 1200)... he had to get his car on a trailer for a couple of drag races, then it was to a new engine. It's not "easy"

so i'm thinking PD went the more "reallistic" road in the sence that those car are more usable and correspond more to what a racer would have instead of engines built for "dyno queens" (cars which won't ever see real action)

a 4 to 6 hundred hp supra will last many years without major overhaul

 

[TheToad263]

The tuning in the game is quite restricted.... don't tell me nonsense like a 2.5 v6 cant produce 1000+bhp... In the late 70s they were cranking out 1200+bhp out of 1.5 liter engines... so it can be done its just a question of how much money you can spend developing it.

 

[Mafz]

I too remember those power rating and it's true it's "doable"

so i'm thinking PD went the more "reallistic" road in the sence that those car are more usable and correspond more to what a racer would have instead of engines built for "dyno queens" (cars which won't ever see real action)

a 4 to 6 hundred hp supra will last many years without major overhaul

Yeah but still it's been restricted too much for me, previous GT's horsepower-wise were more realistic. If it's doable then why not, the 800hp GTR from GT3 was enough power for me. 5 - 600hp is fine for an M3 but for engines like the RB, 2J it's a bit low I reckon.

 

[curtis_boy]

Tuning is way off. Considering Kaz is a Ford GT fan he should've realised its easy to push a Ford GT to 1000+hp. I mean theres so many videos of it on youtube where people just slap two turbos on the engine with the super charger on it and push out insane hp. When I got the game I was hoping to have cars that it takes throttle control. Spinning tires at 200mph but nope. Can't do any of that.

ford gt no stripe go get yourself one

 

[Tommy_861]

The tuning in the game is quite restricted.... don't tell me nonsense like a 2.5 v6 cant produce 1000+bhp... In the late 70s they were cranking out 1200+bhp out of 1.5 liter engines... so it can be done its just a question of how much money you can spend developing it.

If you're referring to F1 engines yes they were... but they also exploded with great frequency. They were rebuilt between practice, qualify, and race. They had clutches that were $10,000 (in 1980 dollars so only imagine what they would cost now) and lasted 1 race.

Theres a reason development at that level reached its peak there, and there aren't engines like that since except in completely experimental things. And if you're making a "real driving simulator" then not having absurdly powerful engines that barely last 100 miles is pretty real.

 

[Mafz]

And if you're making a "real driving simulator" then not having absurdly powerful engines that barely last 100 miles is pretty real.

I disagree with that, this would actually make use of the engine overhaul feature.

 

[Tommy_861]

I disagree with that, this would actually make use of the engine overhaul feature.

The engine overhaul feature is useful over time as-is. The problem with engines like this is that they are not reliable over the long haul, you'd put that car in say the Tsukuba 4 hours and in real life theres not a chance in hell the engine would last over a 4 hour endurance race. Not only that if you want to be realistic you'd be spending a fortune to maintain a car worth 30k credits. Part of the appeal to people over the 1.5m credit race cars is to get nearly as much horsepower for 1/4 the price, but if you want to be realistic the reliability won't be there and the overall costs reaches way up there.

In the end its potaTo/potAto, but my feeling is the likelihood of 1000hp GTOs running endurance races in real life, is pretty low.

 

[Griffith500]

Two words: boost controller.

Then simply make the car "wear out" faster with higher sustained boost.
The controller was in GT1, and is the single most effective tweak on a turbo car.
Each turbo "stage" would have a corresponding usable boost range (assuming the turbos are all adequately sized for the engine and rpm range) selectable from the RA menu.

 

[VcRpPT94]

Damn, i remember my old GTO in gt1 with almost 900 hp it was a beast

When i saw the GTO on the used car dealer i bought it right away, only to be disapointed..

The same goes with the NSX, you can only have 400'ish from that car but it has so much potencial!