PP System (Still Needs Some Work).

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squeakD

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I'm glad to see the PP system in GT now.., but it still needs some more fine tuning on PD's end.

When running Arcade Mode.., using a car (standard-as is-with no upgrades) still doesn't always translate into proper AI assignments. The PP system is a great addition.., but the numbers allocated to some vehicles don't necessarily seem to fit within the grid.

I ran the Lotus Evora today. This isn't a high end super car.., and its pushing a 6 cylinder. However., the PP system in GT matched this Evora up with V-12's and V-8's. Nearly every car on the grid was either a 12 cyl or 8 cyl. As usual the only way you really beat the AI in this situation is cornering. On the straights the Evora was no match for almost every vehicle within that race.
 
I think it's fine,

In your example, that's because the Lotus like you said is brilliant round corners but the AI is better on the straights, so it is fair game really, just pick a track that has a few straights. :)
 
Sorry but it is not fine. If PD wants to use a PP system they could learn a thing or two from Turn 10 and how it's used in Forza. There should be Vehicle Classes and numbers within each of those classes.

Also.., good at cornering or not.., a Lotus Evora IS NOT in the same class as a Lambo pushing a 12 banger.
 
Yes but then aren't you left with the same problem?

Because you can still end up with two cars in the same class and same number but their is still a big difference in performance, such as Veyron at 700 and a F355 challenge at 700.
 
That's where PD needs to clean it up a bit more. Putting vehicles within classes and then assigning numbers within each class rounds it out more. Have you played Forza 3.?.?

In Forza a vehicle standard could be an F-156 for example. The F class in Forza only goes up to 200. When racing you'll run against F class vehicles. You can upgrade your car within the 200 range to stay in F class. Go above 200 and your vehicle moves to the next class.
 
I've more or less completed it,

But isn't the PP similar, like a car with 300PP will be totally different to a car with a PP of 600, so imo the system works.
 
Forza shows it differently, but in practice it does the same thing.

If you enter a free race in forza with an S700 (I think that's right) car, the AI will range from A690ish to S710ish. In GT they range from 690PP to 710PP, or whatever the equivalent is. If the allocation of points is flawed, or they match you with cars way out of your league like 300PP vs 600PP that's one thing, but simply putting a letter-based class system won't fix anything.

As an aside, you seem very focused on the number of cylinders. This might be part of the problem. More cylinders don't mean better, or even faster.
 
United6694
I've more or less completed it,

But isn't the PP similar, like a car with 300PP will be totally different to a car with a PP of 600, so imo the system works.
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Yes it's similar.., but using only a number system the vehicle match up isn't always accurate. Breaking it down into individual vehicle classes (along with a numerical allocation) better rounds the system out.
 
It may be a glitch in arcade mode, but me and a friend tested it out in a lobby. Seemed to work ok there. He is a much better driver than am so we would purposely choose cars that would in no way a be a match.We ran consistently together with no issues running a tight race.
 
freedomweasel
Forza shows it differently, but in practice it does the same thing.

If you enter a free race in forza with an S700 (I think that's right) car, the AI will range from A690ish to S710ish. In GT they range from 690PP to 710PP, or whatever the equivalent is. If the allocation of points is flawed, or they match you with cars way out of your league like 300PP vs 600PP that's one thing, but simply putting a letter-based class system won't fix anything.

As an aside, you seem very focused on the number of cylinders. This might be part of the problem. More cylinders don't mean better, or even faster.
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I know more cylinders doesn't necessarily mean faster. However.., there are obvious issues within the Arcade Mode where AI vehicle selection is improperly balanced in relation to the vehicle chosen for the race.
 
Can some then please tell me then how in arcade mode a state of the art skyline Gtr or a highly tuned s2000 or a WRC car is in the same class as a classic Alfa which only has about 167bhp ?

And you still say the PP system is not flawed?
 
squeakD
I know more cylinders doesn't necessarily mean faster. However.., there are obvious issues within the Arcade Mode where AI vehicle selection is improperly balanced in relation to the vehicle chosen for the race.
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I'll go try it again, as I haven't had a chance to play since the new patch, but I didn't have problems before. I'd often get a poor mix of AI cars (like 5 M3s or something) but it was always a fair race. If I picked my Caterham for example I'd get matched up with supercars and unless I picked a course with a huge straight I'd usually win. If anything the match ups weren't tough enough.

Andy-LK
Can some then please tell me then how in arcade mode a state of the art skyline Gtr or a highly tuned s2000 or a WRC car is in the same class as a classic Alfa which only has about 167bhp ?

And you still say the PP system is not flawed?
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Read my response above. You're never going to get an exact matchup. On a track with an enormous straight some cars will have a huge advantage, on twisty courses that same car may be terrible. The car is given a general performance number that tries to show it's "average" performance. If I take my Caterham to Le Mans it'll be destroyed. If I take it to Laguna Seca or Trial Mountain I'll embarrass the same Ferraris and Lamborghinis I just raced.

They could have a PP rating that changes based on the selected track, but I don't see that happening.
 
freedomweasel
I'll go try it again, as I haven't had a chance to play since the new patch, but I didn't have problems before. I'd often get a poor mix of AI cars (like 5 M3s or something) but it was always a fair race. If I picked my Caterham for example I'd get matched up with supercars and unless I picked a course with a huge straight I'd usually win. If anything the match ups weren't tough enough.



Read my response above. You're never going to get an exact matchup. On a track with an enormous straight some cars will have a huge advantage, on twisty courses that same car may be terrible. The car is given a general performance number that tries to show it's "average" performance. If I take my Caterham to Le Mans it'll be destroyed. If I take it to Laguna Seca or Trial Mountain I'll embarrass the same Ferraris and Lamborghinis I just raced.

They could have a PP rating that changes based on the selected track, but I don't see that happening.
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Andy makes a good point though. Who cares if you get the advantage on the corners. Why the hell is that GTR Skyline on the grid to begin with?

Getting the AI on the corners still doesn't justify a proper match up. I had races where the only thing I changed on a vehicle was the tires..., and still keeping the upgrade within the same tire category. The result of AI vehicles from that was like going from a Honda Civic to a Zonda.
 
squeakD
Andy makes a good point though. Who cares if you get the advantage on the corners. Why the hell is that GTR Skyline on the grid to begin with?

Getting the AI on the corners still doesn't justify a proper match up. I had races where the only thing I changed on a vehicle was the tires..., and still keeping the upgrade within the same tire category. The result of AI vehicles from that was like going from a Honda Civic to a Zonda.
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True, the matchups are probably... I'll say "silly", (old school race car vs modern super/sports car?) even if they are close in the end based on time. I don't see how adding a class system like Forza has will help though. Forza still picks AI opponents within 20-30 points of your car, regardless of what letter class they fall into. I'd often get matched up with race cars vs street cars in Forza too.

However, Forza also let you set up a private lobby of AI cars with a multitude of restrictions like "race car built prior to 1970, RWD and inline 6 engine", so I didn't care what the free-races matched me with.
 
i love forza, i dont have an xbox anymore, so gt5 is the sub, think only ever played gt2 or 3 before lol...

anyways the system to me doesnt seem any different really to forza

i dont play arcade, but the match up will be like the a-spec races etc and to be honest i dont see the fuss:odd:, on forza i used to have cars maxed out to the best they could be for the class and still be slower to the AI, but because alot of thoses cars were really good at handling i could keep up and up the rankings, wasnt easy, especially when some cars you just cant take on, but it played its part well on the endurance races..

dont forget performance is a big factor and i dont just mean power either, so that elise will have better handling performance than alot of other cars, but because of the other cars having better power performance in a ratings sort of way they balance themselves out..

bottom line is, if you not happy, use a better car..............
 

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