Project CARS 2 TYRE MODEL

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United Kingdom
Near Reading, Uk
JohnSchoonsBeard
Just found this posted by Ian Bell on the official forums. A good read.

INSIDE PROJECT CARS SETA TYRE MODEL

Racing, whether it happens in the real or the virtual world, is all about tires. That’s why Project CARS is powered by the revolutionary Seta Tire Model (STM) that plays a key role in making the WMD-powered title the most authentic virtual racing experience.

But what exactly does the Seta Tire Model do? Slightly Mad Studios’ physics expert Andrew Weber takes us for a look deep under the hood of the tire technology that drives Project CARS!


SETA TIRE MODEL DESCRIBED

Seta Tire Model (STM) is a full dynamic tire simulation. Actually, it is three coupled simulations, one for the tire carcass, one for the tire tread and contact patch, and one for heat transfer simulation. It is also modular, where different carcass and tread simulation techniques can be used interchangeably. For example, off road racing may use a different tread simulation.

CARCASS SIMULATION

The carcass simulation used in Project Cars is a finite element simulation with specific computational optimizations specific to real time tire simulation. The carcass is discretized into small connected “elements”, each one flexing and deforming due to forces.

Features:

Elastic behavior changes with speed, temperature, and pressure
Rolling resistance changes with speed, temperature and pressure
Sidewall buckling at low pressure
Bias Ply, Radial, or Hybrid construction
Gyroscopic Effects
Dynamic response such as vibration, telescoping, and twisting
Tire Data
Tire Data
Tire Data


TREAD SIMULATION

The tread simulation used in Project Cars is a finite difference simulation of the contact patch, with the tire tread “flowing” through the contact patch. The whole tread itself is discretized into elements much like the carcass, but the contact patch itself is a finite difference grid.

Features:

Flash Heating, which is the change of temperature in the outermost rubber layer through the contact patch.
Componentized grip model. Each component is affected differently by road surface conditions, wetness, and temperature.
Deformation – the rubber deforming in and around asperities, resisting sliding motion.
Adhesion – the rubber bonding to surface rubber and material.
Tack – the sticky tacky grip you can feel on your shoes when walking a rubbered in track, related to adhesion.
Tearing – the ripping of rubber from the tire
Cut – grip from the geometry, edges, grooves, and siping of the tread, with particular effect in dirt and gravel
Tread channel depth and water handling.
Discretized and temperature sensitive wear
Curing
Temperature sensitive elastic properties
The carcass and tread simulations are coupled such that there is no roughness or “stepping”, while still preserving the detail of both simulations. The contact patch size, shape, and pressure distribution is determined by the carcass simulation and is used by the tread simulation. The forces on the tire from the road surface are simulated in the tread simulation and transferred as external forces to the carcass simulation.

HEAT TRANSFER SIMULATION

The heat transfer simulation handles heat flow between brakes, wheel well, rim, carcass, and tread layers. The heat transfer amongst tread elements, from tread elements to the road surface, and from the tread elements to the air are handled directly by the tread simulation (including advection and evaporation). The pressure of the tire is maintained by the carcass simulation via the ideal gas law.

Emergent Effects

Most effects just “fall out” of STM without explicit coding for effect:
Fy, Fx, and Mz vs slip angle curves, complete with realistic nuances, such as Mz inversion
Inclination effects such as camber thrust
Complex and sometimes subtle changes in behavior due to load, heat, pressure, and speed.
Proper behavior at a standstill and very slow speeds, although due to limitations of consumer force feedback devices, oscillations may still occur. Many tire models break down at a standstill.
Flatspots
Hydroplaning
Changes in behavior due to surface differences, such as surface roughness, track rubbering in, wetness, and dirt.
 
Just found this posted by Ian Bell on the official forums. A good read.

INSIDE PROJECT CARS SETA TYRE MODEL

Racing, whether it happens in the real or the virtual world, is all about tires. That’s why Project CARS is powered by the revolutionary Seta Tire Model (STM) that plays a key role in making the WMD-powered title the most authentic virtual racing experience.

But what exactly does the Seta Tire Model do? Slightly Mad Studios’ physics expert Andrew Weber takes us for a look deep under the hood of the tire technology that drives Project CARS!


SETA TIRE MODEL DESCRIBED

Seta Tire Model (STM) is a full dynamic tire simulation. Actually, it is three coupled simulations, one for the tire carcass, one for the tire tread and contact patch, and one for heat transfer simulation. It is also modular, where different carcass and tread simulation techniques can be used interchangeably. For example, off road racing may use a different tread simulation.

CARCASS SIMULATION

The carcass simulation used in Project Cars is a finite element simulation with specific computational optimizations specific to real time tire simulation. The carcass is discretized into small connected “elements”, each one flexing and deforming due to forces.

Features:

Elastic behavior changes with speed, temperature, and pressure
Rolling resistance changes with speed, temperature and pressure
Sidewall buckling at low pressure
Bias Ply, Radial, or Hybrid construction
Gyroscopic Effects
Dynamic response such as vibration, telescoping, and twisting
Tire Data
Tire Data
Tire Data


TREAD SIMULATION

The tread simulation used in Project Cars is a finite difference simulation of the contact patch, with the tire tread “flowing” through the contact patch. The whole tread itself is discretized into elements much like the carcass, but the contact patch itself is a finite difference grid.

Features:

Flash Heating, which is the change of temperature in the outermost rubber layer through the contact patch.
Componentized grip model. Each component is affected differently by road surface conditions, wetness, and temperature.
Deformation – the rubber deforming in and around asperities, resisting sliding motion.
Adhesion – the rubber bonding to surface rubber and material.
Tack – the sticky tacky grip you can feel on your shoes when walking a rubbered in track, related to adhesion.
Tearing – the ripping of rubber from the tire
Cut – grip from the geometry, edges, grooves, and siping of the tread, with particular effect in dirt and gravel
Tread channel depth and water handling.
Discretized and temperature sensitive wear
Curing
Temperature sensitive elastic properties
The carcass and tread simulations are coupled such that there is no roughness or “stepping”, while still preserving the detail of both simulations. The contact patch size, shape, and pressure distribution is determined by the carcass simulation and is used by the tread simulation. The forces on the tire from the road surface are simulated in the tread simulation and transferred as external forces to the carcass simulation.

HEAT TRANSFER SIMULATION

The heat transfer simulation handles heat flow between brakes, wheel well, rim, carcass, and tread layers. The heat transfer amongst tread elements, from tread elements to the road surface, and from the tread elements to the air are handled directly by the tread simulation (including advection and evaporation). The pressure of the tire is maintained by the carcass simulation via the ideal gas law.

Emergent Effects

Most effects just “fall out” of STM without explicit coding for effect:
Fy, Fx, and Mz vs slip angle curves, complete with realistic nuances, such as Mz inversion
Inclination effects such as camber thrust
Complex and sometimes subtle changes in behavior due to load, heat, pressure, and speed.
Proper behavior at a standstill and very slow speeds, although due to limitations of consumer force feedback devices, oscillations may still occur. Many tire models break down at a standstill.
Flatspots
Hydroplaning
Changes in behavior due to surface differences, such as surface roughness, track rubbering in, wetness, and dirt.
Isn’t this the pCars 1 model?
 
Something is wrong with the tyre model. No car in the world starts spinning round in circles just because you put your foot flat down.

I was very disappointed in the physics in this game. It ain't that different from shift.
 
Something is wrong with the tyre model. No car in the world starts spinning round in circles just because you put your foot flat down.

I was very disappointed in the physics in this game. It ain't that different from shift.

There's not one line of handling code shared with Shift. So that's an epic coincidence. Tens of thousands of new lines of code creating exactly the same thing.
 
Look I ain't bashing your game as potentially it could be the best sim on the consoles but something is up with physics. Cars do not spin about as easy as that in real life.

If you could combine gran turismo physics with the rest of your game it would be a day one buy all the time.
 
That depends on how much power/torque it has, what tyres it has on, what the road surface is like and how much steering angle you have applied. I’ve seen plenty of cars do just that.

Not from the starting line though. I agree the wheels should spin but not start doing doughnuts.
 
It might well be the most advanced tyre model out there I have no idea what calcs and codes the developers have used. I can only base it on my experience.

For me gran turismo recreates how a car handles and feels the best on the consoles but only on tarmac surfaces. On the gravel it is absolutely shocking.

The best simulation I played was richard burns rally. The guys who made that deserve an award, its so realistic and that game is ancient. Project cars is just too twitchy for me and I am only offering advice to try and improve the game. I understand developers spend years developing a game and for some punk on the net to belittle their game must be frustrating but without criticism how will it improve?

You have got to be joking! It really is eye opening the lack of knowledge some on this forum have when it comes this sort of thing.

No, why do you not like the handling of gran turismo?
 
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It might well be the most advanced tyre model out there I have no idea what calcs and codes the developers have used. I can only base it on my experience.

For me gran turismo recreates how a car handles and feels the best on the consoles but only on tarmac surfaces. On the gravel it is absolutely shocking.

The best simulation I played was richard burns rally. The guys who made that deserve an award, its so realistic and that game is ancient. Project cars is just too twitchy for me and I am only offering advice to try and improve the game. I understand developers spend years developing a game and for some punk on the net to belittle their game must be frustrating but without criticism how will it improve?

I’m still waiting on that video of your shocking ‘doughnut’ experience.

What’s you real life experience?

Do you play with a wheel or a pad?
 
I dont have a video but you can try it yourself. Park a car up and go full throttle and tell me what happens.

For me it works fine, as I expect it to happen based on my real life experience.

If you claim the tire model is terrible the least you can do is support it with some proof.

If you are on PS is as easy as a double tap to the share button and a quick upload to YouTube. Then, we can discuss why is this happening to you and work on a solution.
 
I'll see what I can do later then and I didn't say the tyre model was terrible but just that something wasn't right with it.

As Ian said its the most advanced on the consoles but sometimes that can be the issue. You put too many calcs and factors into a model it ends up overcomplicating it and going haywire.
 
Maybe bring some proof for that statement too, while you're at it. :)

I do think the tire model is ok.
But if he meant that when code/simulations become increasingly complex the chances for unexpected behavior increase too.
Again I do believe they've checked this via testing and the tiremodel is awesome.
 
No car in the world starts spinning round in circles just because you put your foot flat down.

Forgive me but I am sick of reading posts like this Mika.
The younger folks around here, or people that may not have had a chance to slam the throttle down on a high horsepower car (with TC off) read this stuff and actually believe it.
Then they post later and someone else believes it.

I recently bought a '17 Dodge Charger/Scat Pack.
Feeling like showing off with my wife on board, I held down the TC button for 5 seconds disabling it, or so I thought. Turns out Dodge locked the PCM on these things in 2015, leaving ESC on slightly.
Anyway at a stop sign I floored it to my surprise we span 180 stopping to face the unimpressed older man behind us.
The car weighs 4400lbs, has 485 HP and is very large.
Imagine something much lighter with double the HP, perhaps the Agera S.
What do you think would happen?
 
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