Project Motor Racing (formerly GTR Revival/GTRevival) from Ian Bell & original GTR2/SimBin crew

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wicken
Achievements are starting to show up. https://www.exophase.com/game/project-motor-racing-xbox-xbox/achievements/
Bit of a shame that most circuits seem to be unlicensed.

Sao Paulo - Interlagos
Blue Mountains Raceway - Bathurst
Lake Jackson Raceway - Sebring
Brianza - Monza
San Marino - Imola
Derby - Donington Park
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If unlicensed tracks allows them to do more tracks I am all for it. More tracks , more gameplay for me . Heck throw some unlicensed cars in while they're at it😁
 
wicken
Achievements are starting to show up. https://www.exophase.com/game/project-motor-racing-xbox-xbox/achievements/
Bit of a shame that most circuits seem to be unlicensed.

Sao Paulo - Interlagos
Blue Mountains Raceway - Bathurst
Lake Jackson Raceway - Sebring
Brianza - Monza
San Marino - Imola
Derby - Donington Park
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I'm really loving that some of the achievements are an homage to GTR2, specifically the lap times at Monza, Spa GP, Imola and Donington and the GTR2 Licence achievement
 
As with the DLC roadmap, the achievement lists may just be a placeholder and not 100% accurate.
It is confirmed that there are 17 tracks with 27 scanned layouts.
 
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I hope they include very good pit crew advice somehow or another. I know in the early days of GTR Revival announcement there were videos of live AI type of pit crew commentary. Have not heard much about that since then. They also gave indication of maybe game changing live AI broadcast commentary. Hope they are keeping this as hidden gem until maybe October.

I know in AMS2 with full damage and mechanical failures turned on do not finish many races. Just the other day in 15 minuet race. Ran into AI under braking received 15 points of damage. One or two laps later warning of turbo failure and car smoking badly. Made it back to the pits and took 3 laps to repair. Needless to say took DF on that race.
 
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slthree
I'll change 1 word from your post. Instead of probably, I'll replace it with the word "definitely"

If anything, I'm in the bottom 10%😢 but I'm so excited to dive in anyway
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Yeah it’s more like definitely, but sometimes I surprise myself. All depends how deep you dive in. I probably won’t have the time to turn a definitely into a probably. Maybe they can give just one more difficulty level instead of full realism or do whatever you want. Haha. It’s like trying to get in the top ten on GT7 time trials. It really does seem impossible. I’ve ran a few enough times to beat out PSN/GT7 friends but watching some replays of the top guys, I just don’t understand how they’re keeping the car under control the way they’re driving, and of course you have the track exploits too.

A good game makes it feel like a steady earning progression for anyone. I’ll just have to fake it through the do whatever you want “redo” option. Haha
 
hawkeyez
Yeah it’s more like definitely, but sometimes I surprise myself. All depends how deep you dive in. I probably won’t have the time to turn a definitely into a probably. Maybe they can give just one more difficulty level instead of full realism or do whatever you want. Haha. It’s like trying to get in the top ten on GT7 time trials. It really does seem impossible. I’ve ran a few enough times to beat out PSN/GT7 friends but watching some replays of the top guys, I just don’t understand how they’re keeping the car under control the way they’re driving, and of course you have the track exploits too.

A good game makes it feel like a steady earning progression for anyone. I’ll just have to fake it through the do whatever you want “redo” option. Haha
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I am sure that they will have various levels of difficulty settings in career mode. I am also sure that race length will be able to be adjusted. I think PC2 was okay in this perspective.

I also enjoyed the special race events in PC2 while in career mode. I would like those or something similar be available outside career mode. I would like to also have some weekly/monthly preset online racings. They had time trials in project cars and even AMS2. Would be nice to have featured online race events.
 
I watched the "Roots" series of videos on YouTube. They're very interesting, but it concerns me that they see the sim vs real life gap as insurmountable. They talk about how the gap is inevitable, and the drivers giving feedback on car handling have to understand what is an underlying physics model difference vs what is the inevitable sim vs real life gap. But, to me, this mindset is guaranteed to produce yet another "sim" that has fake difficulty, as that is what will be produced if you exactly replicate real world physics but take away the physical feeling. The end result is 100% guaranteed to be unrealistic. What I'd prefer to see is an approach based on overall perception, where the aim is to make the total experience feel as close as possible to driving a real car, rather than intentionally making it fall short of feeling like driving a real car.
 
breeminator
I watched the "Roots" series of videos on YouTube. They're very interesting, but it concerns me that they see the sim vs real life gap as insurmountable. They talk about how the gap is inevitable, and the drivers giving feedback on car handling have to understand what is an underlying physics model difference vs what is the inevitable sim vs real life gap. But, to me, this mindset is guaranteed to produce yet another "sim" that has fake difficulty, as that is what will be produced if you exactly replicate real world physics but take away the physical feeling. The end result is 100% guaranteed to be unrealistic. What I'd prefer to see is an approach based on overall perception, where the aim is to make the total experience feel as close as possible to driving a real car, rather than intentionally making it fall short of feeling like driving a real car.
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If I’m reading your post correctly, I’d have to agree.

Sim games can only be so realistic before they feel unrealistic. You’re playing a game, in a racing rig (without motion) and you’ve taken an important aspect out of the equation… your equilibrium.

Our roads can get very icy in the winter, if my vehicle breaks traction at the back tires, even if it kicks out an inch or simply slips, I feel it immediately (I don’t feel it in the steering wheel) I feel it in my body.

Until everyone has 8k per eye super clear full peripheral vision VR headsets with high quality ear phones and motion rigs WITH tactile feedback… they can only do so much.

It feels weird and awkward when you’re taking a corner, pushing it, you lose traction and go spinning out of control but you sit there stationary waiting for your spin out to finish.

Developers need to smear the gap between realistic and video game. When GT7 came out, there were times I was just spinning out of control and it felt like I had no warning. Boom, lost traction and I’m done. It’s better now where you can visually see it and feel it in the wheel before it happens. The easier they make it to save a car losing traction the more realistic it would be IMO since I can’t feel in my body what the car is actually doing.
 
hawkeyez
If I’m reading your post correctly, I’d have to agree.

Sim games can only be so realistic before they feel unrealistic. You’re playing a game, in a racing rig (without motion) and you’ve taken an important aspect out of the equation… your equilibrium.

Our roads can get very icy in the winter, if my vehicle breaks traction at the back tires, even if it kicks out an inch or simply slips, I feel it immediately (I don’t feel it in the steering wheel) I feel it in my body.

Until everyone has 8k per eye super clear full peripheral vision VR headsets with high quality ear phones and motion rigs WITH tactile feedback… they can only do so much.

It feels weird and awkward when you’re taking a corner, pushing it, you lose traction and go spinning out of control but you sit there stationary waiting for your spin out to finish.

Developers need to smear the gap between realistic and video game. When GT7 came out, there were times I was just spinning out of control and it felt like I had no warning. Boom, lost traction and I’m done. It’s better now where you can visually see it and feel it in the wheel before it happens. The easier they make it to save a car losing traction the more realistic it would be IMO since I can’t feel in my body what the car is actually doing.
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Agreed. Hence the “seat of the pants” saying.
 
hawkeyez
If I’m reading your post correctly, I’d have to agree.

Sim games can only be so realistic before they feel unrealistic. You’re playing a game, in a racing rig (without motion) and you’ve taken an important aspect out of the equation… your equilibrium.

Our roads can get very icy in the winter, if my vehicle breaks traction at the back tires, even if it kicks out an inch or simply slips, I feel it immediately (I don’t feel it in the steering wheel) I feel it in my body.

Until everyone has 8k per eye super clear full peripheral vision VR headsets with high quality ear phones and motion rigs WITH tactile feedback… they can only do so much.

It feels weird and awkward when you’re taking a corner, pushing it, you lose traction and go spinning out of control but you sit there stationary waiting for your spin out to finish.

Developers need to smear the gap between realistic and video game. When GT7 came out, there were times I was just spinning out of control and it felt like I had no warning. Boom, lost traction and I’m done. It’s better now where you can visually see it and feel it in the wheel before it happens. The easier they make it to save a car losing traction the more realistic it would be IMO since I can’t feel in my body what the car is actually doing.
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Yes, you understood my post correctly.

I'm saying that realistic physics without real world feel is always going to give fake difficulty. So what they ideally need to do is to find ways to convey that real world feel. They already do it to some extent by conveying information via wheel force feedback that wouldn't actually be felt through the steering wheel in a real car. But I think they could do more to replace the missing real world feel:

  • Audio cues, visual cues, slight vibrations through the wheel or controller to let you know you're getting close to the grip limit. I haven't used a wheel for a long time, but when I did use one with GT Sport there was a click when you reached peak grip, but because it takes a bit of time to react to that, I found if I felt that click I'd gone too far, the car would slide a little, and the lap was ruined. There didn't seem to be any way to reliably turn the wheel to just a teeny bit short of that click.

  • Or assists that might in theory be unrealistic, but they compensate for the fake difficulty arising from the lack of real world feel, bringing the overall ability to control the car back to what it would be in the real world.
 
breeminator
Yes, you understood my post correctly.

I'm saying that realistic physics without real world feel is always going to give fake difficulty. So what they ideally need to do is to find ways to convey that real world feel. They already do it to some extent by conveying information via wheel force feedback that wouldn't actually be felt through the steering wheel in a real car. But I think they could do more to replace the missing real world feel:

  • Audio cues, visual cues, slight vibrations through the wheel or controller to let you know you're getting close to the grip limit. I haven't used a wheel for a long time, but when I did use one with GT Sport there was a click when you reached peak grip, but because it takes a bit of time to react to that, I found if I felt that click I'd gone too far, the car would slide a little, and the lap was ruined. There didn't seem to be any way to reliably turn the wheel to just a teeny bit short of that click.

  • Or assists that might in theory be unrealistic, but they compensate for the fake difficulty arising from the lack of real world feel, bringing the overall ability to control the car back to what it would be in the real world.
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Ok good to know I did. I’ve said this before, it can only get so realistic.

I think slowing down how a car reacts helps a bit. In GT7 I run all assits off but I have countersteering on weak (used to have it on strong). When the game first came out, we were all spinning out without warning. It was hilarious actually. Look in your review mirror and see what looked like your racing buddy, turning hard straight into a wall.

We all complained we had no warning it just seemed like walking on eggshells and suddenly boom you’re in a can’t save it slide. Hence allowing countersteering. At least with that, I notice it because the wheel begins to countersteering a hair before I’m aware I’m pushing it too far.

I also don’t care what they say, when using a controller, there are assists happening behind the scenes. I had an e type Jaguar and a bad tune, I could hardly drive it, constantly spinning out. Without reloading lobby, I switched to my controller and suddenly I’m in total control.

So yeah maybe that’s the key, assists that help. Another thing, GT7 I need some countersteering assist on, but in PC2, I noticed the car slid easier, but you could also save it more easily. In GT7 (and it’s been like this in most gran turismo’s) it feels like you go from grip to no grip pretty damn fast.
 
breeminator
Yes, you understood my post correctly.

I'm saying that realistic physics without real world feel is always going to give fake difficulty. So what they ideally need to do is to find ways to convey that real world feel. They already do it to some extent by conveying information via wheel force feedback that wouldn't actually be felt through the steering wheel in a real car. But I think they could do more to replace the missing real world feel:

  • Audio cues, visual cues, slight vibrations through the wheel or controller to let you know you're getting close to the grip limit. I haven't used a wheel for a long time, but when I did use one with GT Sport there was a click when you reached peak grip, but because it takes a bit of time to react to that, I found if I felt that click I'd gone too far, the car would slide a little, and the lap was ruined. There didn't seem to be any way to reliably turn the wheel to just a teeny bit short of that click.

  • Or assists that might in theory be unrealistic, but they compensate for the fake difficulty arising from the lack of real world feel, bringing the overall ability to control the car back to what it would be in the real world.
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Bass shakers was a game changer for me. I put one on each corner of my rig for independent tire feedback. I really don't think you'll get there with just a controller or a wheel alone. They have come a long way in the last decade, but it's still a ways away from actually simulating a real car feel. Not to mention that every driver is different and has their own opinion on what feels "correct" to them. I'm just enjoying the fact that we now have a LOT of options to choose from as far as SIMS go.
 
cjsrt4
Bass shakers was a game changer for me. I put one on each corner of my rig for independent tire feedback. I really don't think you'll get there with just a controller or a wheel alone. They have come a long way in the last decade, but it's still a ways away from actually simulating a real car feel. Not to mention that every driver is different and has their own opinion on what feels "correct" to them. I'm just enjoying the fact that we now have a LOT of options to choose from as far as SIMS go.
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The other thing is some games broadcast more info than others. Like GT7 doesn’t do tire scrub well at all or should I say loss of traction, SimHub is missing features other games have in SimHub simply because PD doesn’t put broadcast that info.

I have some shakers and they do help, I also have a really good wheel.

I really do think Logitech should come up with an affordable design, say $3000 all in that gives you the G Pro Wheel, Pedals, Rig w Shakers and somehow use the info they’re getting from the game to the wheel to feed the shakers.

If game developers and the hardware guys got together to integrate it all. Sim racing is taking off, lots want to get into it further but are unsure. Buy this, then that, then download this software and hook it up to this. If there was a plug n play all in for $3000 or even $3500, people I think would consider it.
 
hawkeyez
The other thing is some games broadcast more info than others. Like GT7 doesn’t do tire scrub well at all or should I say loss of traction, SimHub is missing features other games have in SimHub simply because PD doesn’t put broadcast that info.

I have some shakers and they do help, I also have a really good wheel.

I really do think Logitech should come up with an affordable design, say $3000 all in that gives you the G Pro Wheel, Pedals, Rig w Shakers and somehow use the info they’re getting from the game to the wheel to feed the shakers.

If game developers and the hardware guys got together to integrate it all. Sim racing is taking off, lots want to get into it further but are unsure. Buy this, then that, then download this software and hook it up to this. If there was a plug n play all in for $3000 or even $3500, people I think would consider it.
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That's $100 dollars a month for 3 years at $3,600 be tough pill to swallow to get that past most guys wife's. Me on the other hand ditched the wife some years ago. Could spend 10 grand, but not going to do so when only able to race a few hours a week at the very most. I do see sim racing venues charging $100 a month for top membership. Not sure how many could afford that either.
 
L
Fossilized
F1 spends millions on simulators, and all the drivers say it is still nothing like being in the car. You can throw as much money at the problem as you want, or can afford (!), But you are NEVER going to be able to say it is realistic.

Not until that brainstem implant, at least 🧠🤣
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I mean…Yes, the car will never have g forces which dramatically affect the force exerted by the body. Especially with an f1 car. However, if these companies would install strong enough motor/rumble/etc within the wheel base, pedals, and stick shift, that would provide 3 points of contact which should be dang near enough tactile feedback, particularly in a VR environment, with which one could rely and improve(at least not degrade) muscle memory and performance when in actual cars. When in VR, your minds almost there, close and “good enough,” are definitely worth pursuing. Less so, of course, when racing pancake…but still valuable.
 
This is ultimately a 'game' first and foremost. I hope that it'll be a proper evolution of PCars2 in the same way that ACC Evo seems to proving to be over the OG Asetto Corsa.
But also remember there will be a wide range of gamers buying this, from couch players on controller ( or even keyboards ) right up to those with full rigs and motion platforms. The 'realism' that people will find is very subjective and not always based on any IRL experience, some will just be comparing against other racing titles.
 
greenlightning
That's $100 dollars a month for 3 years at $3,600 be tough pill to swallow to get that past most guys wife's. Me on the other hand ditched the wife some years ago. Could spend 10 grand, but not going to do so when only able to race a few hours a week at the very most. I do see sim racing venues charging $100 a month for top membership. Not sure how many could afford that either.
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Well a big cost of that is the wheel, and that’s CAD I was thinking as well. $3000-$3500 for a Logitech G Pro and Pedals, a rig, shakers with an amp and no need for a laptop running SimHub. It’s really not that bad and might not even be a doable price point anyway. With all my stuff, I’m probably close to $2200 including the price of my old laptop when I bought it new.

It adds up fast and it was all diy which saved me cash.

Sure you can go grab a G29 and some wheel setup on Amazon for $200 and stay under $1000 no problem. Just wishful thinking that a company would be able to offer some kind of all in one plug n play solution.
 

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