PS3 Failures Featured On Watchdog

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That more than anything shows there is an inherant design flaw in the launch consoles. If Sony fixes your console it is likely to last just as long as what those guys did in the van.

...

They both ARE true, this issue is about launch machines only and that was the price the people in question paid (actually some paid even higher).

I have a launch console, bought on March 23rd. I didn't pay anywhere close to £400.

I'd also like to know how the repairs to something costing "£400" can cost a further £528. That's more than the actual or putative cost of the console and more than twice as much as you'd pay today for a new console...


The didnt show up because they know there are issues with the fat PS3 and want to sweep it all under the carpet for the slims launch. The fact they wrote a 6 page letter in responce shows the BBC stepped on a raw nerve, Sony is in denial.

The letter is dated 11th September. The show was broadcast last night. The 17th.
 
That more than anything shows there is an inherant design flaw in the launch consoles. If Sony fixes your console it is likely to last just as long as what those guys did in the van.

I'd've said that it showed an inherant flaw in the 'fixing' process that the engineers used...

Would it also not be the case that had Sony fixed it - then the now broken ones would've been under the 3 month warranty - and these people would have PS3s to play on...

C.
 
I think its because Watchdog doesnt have the resources and can't be bothered with this issue because the majority of the public still sees gaming as a silly thing to even care about. They would spend more time investigating something like travel opperators etc..
So, wait. Since I don't get to watch Watchdog all the time; do they always make unsubstantiate claims, not explain what that means to the consumer, and then just go on to quote numbers that mean nothing? Or do they have the resources and feel they can be bothered at other times?

The didnt show up because they know there are issues with the fat PS3 and want to sweep it all under the carpet for the slims launch. The fact they wrote a 6 page letter in responce shows the BBC stepped on a raw nerve, Sony is in denial.
Yeah, definitely wouldn't be because they know a PR setup when they see one and refuse to get sandbagged by a Microsoft employee.

Would you go on a show where they were going to insult you, and then every defense you give just accuse you of lying?

And then, I am not quite sure what Watchdog was showing when you look at their figures. From BBC's own article.
Sony told the Watchdog programme that "less than half a percent" of the 2.5 million consoles it has sold exhibited the "yellow light" phenomenon when they failed.

The programme quoted the figure as 12,500 consoles - half a percent of that 2.5 million figure - but a spokesperson for Sony said the number is less than that.
Wait, so Watchdog is squabbling over their numbers claim due to a possible descrepancy of tenths of a percent? They put time and money into a show to accuse Sony of lying about tenths of a percent? So it may be a very small number or an even smaller number of issues?

It was a hit piece, plain and simple.
 
I have a launch console, bought on March 23rd. I didn't pay anywhere close to £400.

Asda was selling them at 425 pounds in store at launch, which was the official UK RRP...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2006/may/19/ps3uk425than

Famine
I'd also like to know how the repairs to something costing "£400" can cost a further £528. That's more than the actual or putative cost of the console and more than twice as much as you'd pay today for a new console....

You know they meant 400 for the console + 128 to fix it (seeing as fixing is a given!). Its a joke for Destructoid to nit pick on wording like that when every intelligent human being knows what Watchdog meant.

Famine
The letter is dated 11th September. The show was broadcast last night. The 17th.

Doesnt make a difference, just shows that Sony were even more worried about what Watchdog was going to reveal. Im suprised it needed a 6 page letter from them! Over reaction much?

Foolkiller
So, wait. Since I don't get to watch Watchdog all the time; do they always make unsubstantiate claims, not explain what that means to the consumer, and then just go on to quote numbers that mean nothing? Or do they have the resources and feel they can be bothered at other times?

Watchdog has a habit of going Gung Ho on things often without backing up their claims with substancial evidence although its true that with some investigations they will make way more effort than they did last night on this issue.

Foolkiller
Yeah, definitely wouldn't be because they know a PR setup when they see one and refuse to get sandbagged by a Microsoft employee.

The MS employee (he just writes a column) was only the guy with the Sony repair van and did not host the show. I do 100% agree with you however that it was such a stupid move by the BBC to get him of all people involved with the show.

Robin.
 
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Doesnt make a difference, just shows that Sony were even more worried about Watchdog was going to reveal. Im suprised it needed a 6 page letter from them! Over reaction much?
Looking at Watchdog's figures vs Sony's, I say Watchdog over reacted. Sony was reacting to them trying a purposely designed PR hit piece. I am sure that six page letter included a large amount of legal mumbo jumbo regarding slander laws and whatnot.
 
I'd've said that it showed an inherant flaw in the 'fixing' process that the engineers used...

Would it also not be the case that had Sony fixed it - then the now broken ones would've been under the 3 month warranty - and these people would have PS3s to play on...

C.

Your entitled to your view but most independant YLOD repairers give you a 6 month warranty, you get back your own console and your charged about half what Sony asks for. Plus no one knows if Sony's process is any better than what those guys did in the van.

Robin.
 
Asda was selling them at 425 pounds in store at launch, which was the official UK RRP...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2006/may/19/ps3uk425than

I bought mine on launch day from Game. I think it was £360. Might have been £370.

You know they meant 400 for the console + 128 to fix it (seeing as fixing is a given!). Its a joke for Destructoid to nit pick on wording like that when every intelligent human being knows what Watchdog meant.

The point of investigative journalism is to get these things right. If they say it costs a further £528 to get a console fixed but they don't mean that, it's sloppy reporting.

Of course, £128 to get a console fixed isn't nearly as alarming a figure as £528. Doesn't sound anywhere near as juicy.


Doesnt make a difference, just shows that Sony were even more worried about what Watchdog was going to reveal. Im suprised it needed a 6 page letter from them! Over reaction much?

You can't have it both ways. They're either in denial and sweeping it under the carpet or they're overreacting...

Watchdog has a habit of going Gung Ho on things often without backing up their claims with substancial evidence although its true that with some investigations they will make way more effort than they did last night on this issue.

A friend of mine wrote to Watchdog regarding his console. It broke under warranty and he sent it back for repair. Two weeks later he received it back with a refusal note, citing water damage and tampering (missing screws) - the console had never been opened and spent its life in a "cinema" room, never coming near water. The case had gouges from where it had been pried open by the engineers (he took several photographs before and after).

He tried to boot it up and it generated a completely different error to before. After several attempts to get an explanation - each time being fobbed off with "water damage" and "tampering" - before eventually getting a complaints address. 2 weeks later and there is no word on any progress.


Yep. XBox360.
 
A friend of mine wrote to the show too and actually got on it :O

I haven't watched it, but he says you can see him for about a minute in various places xD

I hate that Sony charge so much, but at least there's a lot less chance of something like that happening with a PS3 than a 360, not that it's much of a consolation considering the RROD warranty is huge...
 
The didnt show up because they know there are issues with the fat PS3 and want to sweep it all under the carpet for the slims launch. The fact they wrote a 6 page letter in responce shows the BBC stepped on a raw nerve, Sony is in denial.

Oh, behave Robin! :D

Everyone who has ever watched Watchdog knows that their style of reporting is to be brash and vivid because it's what makes people watch it. These figures, which show that the YLOD affects <0.5% show that it isn't an issue. A <0.5% failure rate for a console is good. That's why they didn't show, because they aren't worried about a problem which doesn't exist!

That show has been torn apart on this page and has about as much credence as a bankers economic judgement.
 
Doesnt make a difference, just shows that Sony were even more worried about what Watchdog was going to reveal. Im suprised it needed a 6 page letter from them! Over reaction much?


Watchdog has a habit of going Gung Ho on things often without backing up their claims with substancial evidence although its true that with some investigations they will make way more effort than they did last night on this issue.


Have you ever had any dealings with Watchdog from a manufacturer point of view?

I only ask because I have, and quite frankly I don't blame Sony for going overboard at all.

I was involved in a case regarding damage caused to waterbased paintwork by bird 'lime', a total of 12 car manufacturers were involved along with the company lawyers for each and every one of them. The paperwork involved in the entire situation number thousands of pages and at the end of the watchdog investigation the independent paint company they used found no fault at all with the paint manufacturers used.

The problem was simply down to owners not cleaning off extremely corrosive bird muck quickly enough.

The pieces on watchdog damning the 12 manufactures totaled over 15 minutes of airtime, the retraction was a two line screen flash at the end of a show.

You are mistaking what is no more than an entertainment programe for one that is dedicated to true consumer protection, simply put you only get on if Watchdog and the BBC believe they can get viewers out of it.


The MS employee (he just writes a column) was only the guy with the Sony repair van and did not host the show. I do 100% agree with you however that it was such a stupid move by the BBC to get him of all people involved with the show.

Robin.
Yep, because its not like he's ever hosted any events for MS, like the launch event for Halo 3......

http://news.spong.com/article/13856/Celeb-Studded-Halo-3-Launch-In-London-Full-Pics-Inside


.....Ian Lee does quite a big more that write a column for them (and the theme of his column is quite well known), he has hosted a number of MS events over the years.

Quite frankly he is a well know Xbox advocate and trying to claim otherwise is to be honest a bit silly.


Regards

Scaff
 
They both ARE true, this issue is about launch machines only and that was the price the people in question paid (actually some paid even higher).

I find it a bit cheeky considering the failure rates are low. Does this small amount of launch buyers expect a 3 years warranty to surface when the stats show its very low. Sounds like a small amount of people crying about their PS3 and complain to watchdog and really had no place to be on the show.

PS3 has been out 2.6 years in the UK. Microsoft has been forced to offer a three year warranty due to all the problems and court battles and is a unique situation. These people seriously expect standard 3 year warranty? Because that's what they'll need.

Can we expect Watchdog to be featuring every electronic device in the UK and demanding 3/4 years warranty because one poor chaps device has broke.
 
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Luckily the Sale of Goods Act gives us a six year manufacturer warranty in the UK...

SALE OF GOODS ACT

The Headline: You might not need that five-year extended warranty after all.

The Scenario: Your iconic white MP3 player, the totemic centre of your life, breaks down precisely 366 days after you bought it. The large electronics firm that sold you the MP3 player says that because the one-year guarantee had elapsed, there's nothing they can do to help you. You'll just have to buy another one.

Tears drip disconsolately on to its lifeless grey screen as you ponder what to do.

But there's some good news. The operative who spoke to you didn't know what they were talking about

The Truth: The Sale of Goods Act says that your MP3 player must be fit for purpose.

"It must be as described. It must be of satisfactory quality, sufficiently durable, free from any defects," says Dr Christian Twigg-Flesner, a consumer law expert at the University of Hull.

If you've ignored the manufacturer's warnings and have been leaving the player out in direct sunshine and wearing it in the bath, then you probably haven't got much of a case.

But if the player has been lovingly treated and has still conked out that suggests something may have been wrong with it at the very beginning.

It works like this. For the first four-five weeks you have a "right of rejection" - if the item you've bought breaks down, you can demand a refund.

For the next six months, you are entitled to replacement or repair of the goods. It is up to the retailer to prove there was nothing wrong with it if they wish to get out of having to do the work. And then after six months, there is still a duty to replace or repair faulty goods, but the onus is on you, the consumer, to prove that there was something wrong.

And the key time span is six years. That's how long goods may be covered by the Sale of Goods Act. It all depends on what "sufficiently durable" means. If a light bulb goes after 13 months, the consumer is not going to be overly gutted. If their washing machine goes after the same time span they are going to be livid.

The government's guidelines say: "Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description."

And be aware that if you go to the washing machine repairer, spend money attempting to diagnose an inherent fault, and find out you have been using it the wrong way, then you are going to be out of pocket.

A key fact is that your relationship in the Sale of Goods Act is with the retailer, not the manufacturer.

"The retailer likes shepherding you off to the manufacturer," says Dr Twigg-Flesner.

And there are still reasons why you might want an extended warranty - they often include loan machines and ongoing technical support that you would otherwise miss out on. But they are not always good value, says Dr Twigg-Flesner. "I've never bought one."

Where it applies: The law applies across the UK, but has numerous small differences as applied in Scotland.
 
While we're on the subject, mine recently YLOD'd and I've been having trouble finding the contact number for Sony to get it repaired, anyone in the UK know where I can find it?
Also, is it worth getting it repaired independently? (and if so, suggestions?) Is it even worth getting it repaired at all? Should I just get a new PS3?
 
While we're on the subject, mine recently YLOD'd and I've been having trouble finding the contact number for Sony to get it repaired, anyone in the UK know where I can find it?
Also, is it worth getting it repaired independently? (and if so, suggestions?) Is it even worth getting it repaired at all? Should I just get a new PS3?

08705 99 88 77

That's on the back page of every PS3 game instruction manual.

I'd get the slim unless you need the things the slim is missing.

You could put your YLOD on ebay as people like to repair themselves but who knows how long it'll last. Money you get should cover the cost to a slim or almost.

Your bluray drive could go next so get the slim.

If it was me I'd open it up and heat/flux the mother board with a heat gun. Wouldn't put it in an oven.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U70SgRDVcBo
 
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Luckily the Sale of Goods Act gives us a six year manufacturer warranty in the UK...

Add to that the fact that you get two years from the retailer under the European Consumer Retail act as well (see attached .pdf page 7)....

The fact is that a two year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU (Directive 1999/44/EC).

.....and away you go.


Regards

Scaff
 

Attachments

08705 99 88 77

That's on the back page of every PS3 game instruction manual.

I'd get the slim unless you need the things the slim is missing.

You could put your YLOD on ebay as people like to repair themselves but who knows how long it'll last. Money you get should cover the cost to a slim or almost.

Your bluray drive could go next so get the slim.

If it was me I'd open it up and heat/flux the mother board with a heat gun. Wouldn't put it in an oven.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U70SgRDVcBo

Hmm, well I think I'll look into selling it and getting the slim. I'll just copy the few saves I'm bothered about and re-format the hard drive. I can re-download the DLC I purchased so that isn't a problem either.
Thanks for the advice. 👍
 
Have you not seen the posts by Scaff, Famine and co? Don't want it fixed under guarantee? Not sure how long you've had it.
 
Its a choice between getting it fixed and chancing it breaking something else that isn't repairable (and therefore not any value for sale) or selling it and purchasing a hopefully more reliable console.
Also, I would need a receipt to prove I've had it within the warranty time. This console was bought for my brother by my parents and I don't think they kept it.
 
Its a choice between getting it fixed and chancing it breaking something else that isn't repairable (and therefore not any value for sale) or selling it and purchasing a hopefully more reliable console.
Also, I would need a receipt to prove I've had it within the warranty time. This console was bought for my brother by my parents and I don't think they kept it.

I believe you don't actually need a receipt to take back faulty goods, as long as you can show that you purchased it from the retailer you are trying to return it to. So if they used a debit/credit card, giving them the details of that will do. If they used cash however you could be struggling.
 
Also, I would need a receipt to prove I've had it within the warranty time. This console was bought for my brother by my parents and I don't think they kept it.

Is it less than six years old? Yes - it's a PS3 and can't be even 3 years old yet.

All you need to prove is that you haven't misused it. If you've been using it exactly in accordance with the manual, the fault must be a manufacturing defect rendering it not "fit for purpose" under the Sale of Goods Act.
 
I got my PS3(60gb) on the UK release. In that time I have done nothing more than I would with any other console that I have had, and that is to leave in a cool place in your TV entertainment centre or near a window but not too close so as to clog it up with dust. Speaking of dust....the PS3 attracts dust like a TV screen. So when I see the dust around the air vents I take my vaccum cleaner turn down the power on it and vaccum the vents getting all that dust out of there.

I'm happy that I have not had the YLOD but if I ever do I'll go down to sony headquarters myself to get it fixed but will not pay £128.00.....maybe £90.
 
Your entitled to your view but most independant YLOD repairers give you a 6 month warranty, you get back your own console and your charged about half what Sony asks for. Plus no one knows if Sony's process is any better than what those guys did in the van.
I've never heard of Sony sending back your console after any fix (for any of their consoles) in a "completely inoperable" state; so yes, I'd imagine Sony actually does know what they are doing and are doing something more effective. I have personally rigged together dozens of fixes for consoles that I have owned, and barring 1 or 2 specific instances none of them are as effective as if I had just sent the console to the manufacturer for fixing.
 
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Is it less than six years old? Yes - it's a PS3 and can't be even 3 years old yet.

All you need to prove is that you haven't misused it. If you've been using it exactly in accordance with the manual, the fault must be a manufacturing defect rendering it not "fit for purpose" under the Sale of Goods Act.

Without a receipt, how can I prove I even bought it at the retailer in question? I will find out if my parents used a card to pay for it, but I'm doubtful if the retailer is going to accept this.
 
Indeed, the Sale of Goods Act is a contract with the retailer.
 
Without a receipt, how can I prove I even bought it at the retailer in question? I will find out if my parents used a card to pay for it, but I'm doubtful if the retailer is going to accept this.

Which store did they buy it from? Currys, Comet, Dixons Tax Free, PC World and Argos all keep records of electrical items stored in their systems under your surname and postcode.
 
Your entitled to your view but most independant YLOD repairers give you a 6 month warranty, you get back your own console and your charged about half what Sony asks for. Plus no one knows if Sony's process is any better than what those guys did in the van.

Robin.

Do we have any figures on PS3's that have "YLOD"'d and been fixed and since failed?

Seems to me that Sony can fix their own console properly if/when it breaks... they also said in the responses that not all of the YLOD errors are related to the solder reflow issue... thus getting your independant engineer to cook your motherboard might break it instantly.

Also did it not state in the supporting articles that the independant repairers charged fairly similar prices to Sony (~£100) - and also this is pretty basic marketing - why would an independant repairer possibly charge more than Sony?

C.
 
Which store did they buy it from? Currys, Comet, Dixons Tax Free, PC World and Argos all keep records of electrical items stored in their systems under your surname and postcode.

Costco it turns out, and we also can't find a receipt (which is odd, we normally keep them). We aren't sure if we paid with cash or credit card, at the moment we can't find any evidence (in bank statements or otherwise).
 
Given how the watchdog article has been torn to shreds, does anyone think that Sony might file a defamation suit against the BBC?
 
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