PSA Peugeot Citroen and Fiat- The Van Trio

A friend of mine, his dad has a Partner as a more-or-less-daily driver. I sat in it a few times, and it really isn't as bad as forza2.0 says they are.

While not as comfy, smooth or well-built as, say, his Peugeot 306, it really is quite a nice car - compare it to mid-'90s family saloons, if you like. Mitsubishi Lancers and Toyota Corollas were just as comfy.
 
Fench vans are terrible im not exaggerating. Got my combo today. Crap gearbox but still better than the frenchies.
 
forza 2.0, where exactly are you (physical location)?

In Europe, there is a different philosophy than that of North America. As a result, there tend to be different tastes of the general audience. If you are in North America, I see where your opinion derives. The economy in Europe is different (or as I recall, feel free to correct me), so the vehicles are different. Cheap transportation is required in this case, meaning that the reason that these vans are 'crap' are that their shortcomings in quality is compensated for in price. Sedans can attain such, larger vehicles certainly can, but at the expense of a couple of aspects.

However, if in Europe, then I must say nothing.
 
I live in london. I would rather pay a grand or two more for my van than be forced to drive those dreadful french vans.
 
Really? I could sort of understand if you'd bought a VW or something, but you really like the Combo better? They look like a whole new world of bland to me.
 
Which? magazine flip Citroen Nemo on its side; still sound tired with life.

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Mmmm, looks like the A-Class won't have to bear the brunt of Elk Test jokes alone anymore.

They tested a Fiat with ESP against the Citroen here, and (as you can see from the video) the former fared far better. Nice little advertisement for the feature there.

Doesn't really raise any interesting points, I just enjoy watching small MPVs fall over.
 
You call those vans? They look like a Ford Transit Connect, which is like a mail carrier. What do you call that type of van? A courier?
 
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Mmmm, looks like the A-Class won't have to bear the brunt of Elk Test jokes alone anymore.

They tested a Fiat with ESP against the Citroen here, and (as you can see from the video) the former fared far better. Nice little advertisement for the feature there.

Doesn't really raise any interesting points, I just enjoy watching small MPVs fall over.

It was ADAC, the German safety organisation, who ran the tests, not Which? Went over pretty quickly though. The FIAT looked much more stable, clearly shows the benefits of ESP in something tall, narrow and short.

You call those vans? They look like a Ford Transit Connect, which is like a mail carrier. What do you call that type of van? A courier?

Yes, they're vans. We broadly call any light commercial vehicle from things like the Nemo right up to Luton vans and the like (and even bigger, I think goods vehicles up to 7.5 tonnes are still classed as vans by some people).

The Nemo et al are smaller than the Transit Connect by a fair bit though.

If it has a closed body and it's primarily designed for carrying cargo of some sort, then it's broadly classed under the "van" tag. If you wanted to go even smaller, then this is a van too. And even this.

I think those are technically MPVs. Sorta like an oversized hatchback thing.

They're vans, but converted to passenger cars. Coincidentally, a bit like the Transit Connects you get over there arrive in the States as, to avoid the chicken tax. The Connects are then stripped of their seats and windows and turned back into vans.

I think it might have been Citroen who started the "van with windows" thing with the Berlingo, actually. Only that one didn't fall over.
 
Us north Americans think of Mazda when we hear "MPV", which admittedly is a little smaller than most NA minivans, but still rather large next to these Eurotrippers. (MPV above looks like it tripped over that pylon.)
 
In Europe we'd call things like the Ford Galaxy and Renault Espace "MPVs". The Mazda to which you refer was ironically called the MPV but in Europe was really in the mini-MPV class alongside things like the Renault Scenic. Their current competitor is the Mazda 5.

I've no idea what you'd call an MPV-like car smaller than the Scenic, Zafira etc. Micro MPVs? They may well have another name altogether. You used to be able to get a Daihatsu Hijet "MPV" with six seats. I assume you had to be fairly good friends with the other five passengers.
 
How did Citroen not catch this little defect while the car went through initial testing? It's like how Lexus has been selling an SUV here that drifts into oblivion when you let off the gas at moderate speeds. How did they miss that? From my understanding car companies put cars through the most extreme tests they can come up with to make sure all the what ifs are covered. Apparently not.
 
How did Citroen not catch this little defect while the car went through initial testing? It's like how Lexus has been selling an SUV here that drifts into oblivion when you let off the gas at moderate speeds. How did they miss that? From my understanding car companies put cars through the most extreme tests they can come up with to make sure all the what ifs are covered. Apparently not.

Well, according to Citroen they said that they never subject their cars to a manoeuvre that violent, because it's generally more of a violent move than the majority of road users are capable of. The elk test involves a full turn of the wheel with crossed arms into another full turn the other way and then back again. I suspect many drivers would simply spin the car on the first turn of the wheel. Or brake instead of turning.

As for the Lexus/Toyota SUV thing, that test was not at moderate speeds. In the video, the car is travelling at 60mph and then swung again with a big armfull of lock and lifting completely off the gas to provoke it. The test is dumb because it's replicating a deliberately dangerous manoeuvre, of the sort that only a complete idiot would find themselves in. It's not a safety test at all. The consumer organisation that carried out the test mentioned some ridiculous comment about it being the sort of situation you might find yourself in on a motorway off-ramp - when off-ramps are designed to get you to slow down before you join a minor road (just like on-ramps give you the space to gain speed). If you're barrelling into one at 60mph then it's your own fault if you roll, not the car's.

It's a body on frame SUV with fat tyres, it's not designed to cope with a test like that and you'd be hard pressed to find any other similar vehicle that would respond any differently. The Lexus didn't even hint at going up onto two wheels either. They only said it might roll if you hit a curb during the turn. If you do 60mph and you're lifting off and you're hitting an inside curb, then again it's your own damn fault.

I'm not into my conspiracy theories but it just seems like another way for the US auto industry to have a pop at Toyota.

I'd like to add that I'm not defending a car if it's genuinely unstable, but there's a difference between provoking a car in a more extreme manner than it'd ever be provoked on the road (the Nemo is essentially a city van, for example. It'll barely ever get over 30mph for most of it's life) and it simply being unstable.
 
As for the Lexus/Toyota SUV thing, that test was not at moderate speeds. In the video, the car is travelling at 60mph and then swung again with a big armfull of lock and lifting completely off the gas to provoke it. The test is dumb because it's replicating a deliberately dangerous manoeuvre, of the sort that only a complete idiot would find themselves in. It's not a safety test at all. The consumer organisation that carried out the test mentioned some ridiculous comment about it being the sort of situation you might find yourself in on a motorway off-ramp - when off-ramps are designed to get you to slow down before you join a minor road (just like on-ramps give you the space to gain speed). If you're barrelling into one at 60mph then it's your own fault if you roll, not the car's.

It's a body on frame SUV with fat tyres, it's not designed to cope with a test like that and you'd be hard pressed to find any other similar vehicle that would respond any differently. The Lexus didn't even hint at going up onto two wheels either. They only said it might roll if you hit a curb during the turn. If you do 60mph and you're lifting off and you're hitting an inside curb, then again it's your own damn fault.

I'm not into my conspiracy theories but it just seems like another way for the US auto industry to have a pop at Toyota.

Just to note, Consumer Union has actually fixed these tests before, (most infamously the Suzuki Samurai, and Mitsubishi flat out ignored them when they said the Montero was unsafe) and there's some controversy with the outrigger wheels they use in their lane-change tests. Their latest findings with the GX are suspectly close to the Toyota recalls, something that reeks of "Media Bandwagon" to me. They also reported no other SUV, even other Toyotas, had the GX's "problem." Even if they didn't have ASC. Or did they mention anything about vehicles thereof?

But, pah, let's leave that for discussing the GX, not this thread.
 
*looks at thread*
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Where the heck has this been all my life? Just got a Peugeot Australia ad about the Peugeot Partner for $25k. Had a look through the website. I want one.
 
This whole “mini-commercial-van” segment is not something I’ve ever really paid any attention to. I can see that these little guys have their place (city based postie or a mobile coffee shop for example) but I never really noticed them.

For $25k it‘s one of the cheaper cars on sale in Australia, and certainly one of the most practical for the $. The only thing I’d wonder, is if the average worker could justify buying one of these, instead of a much larger, but still cheap, LDV Ute ($4k more) or LDV Van ($6k more).
 
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Me and my Wife been looking at the Renault Trafic F1. However, I like smaller vehicles. The Caddy is one I like. See plenty of those on the road. The Partner appealed to me because I only saw the right side. Thought it didn't have sliding doors. Then, read there is a sliding door.
Checked the pics to see it's left side only on the standard and the thing is a three-seater. Perfect for my family right now. Wife likes to buy canvases and pieces we need to use my Step-daughter's HRV for.

Been six years since selling the Megane Trophy+ and so many cars we like. Just haven't committed to a brand new one... yet.
 
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