PSA Peugeot Citroen In Talks To Buy Opel/Vauxhall

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homeforsummer

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It makes me wonder why PSA wants to buy a brand that has been in the red for the last 17 years.

Is it for the technology of the Ampera?
Potentially, though I'd have thought Chevy has been the main force behind development of GM's EVs. I'd assume strategic - extra factories, and Opel's vehicles (badged as other GM brands, admittedly) have been quite popular in markets such as China. PSA already has a strong foothold and huge sales in China so with Opel-based products as well that could make them even stronger there.
Nissan-Renault snapped up Mitsubishi, and its a verifiable basket case compared to Opel. :P
Worth noting that Mitsubishi is already in profit though, which isn't the case for GM Europe.
 

TheCracker

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It makes me wonder why PSA wants to buy a brand that has been in the red for the last 17 years.

For the manufacturing plants in the UK, Germany, Poland, Spain etc. Although, looking at how cut-back the UK facilities are these days, i'd be surprised if they didn't close them at some point in the near future, especially with the Brexit uncertainty.
 

niky

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Worth noting that Mitsubishi is already in profit though, which isn't the case for GM Europe.

Also worth noting is that Mitsubishi's only weak market is America. Just like that other non-basketcase Suzuki.
 

SlipZtrEm

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Worth noting that Mitsubishi is already in profit though, which isn't the case for GM Europe.

Oh, I didn't realize. That's good to hear I suppose: every year at the CIAS, I wonder how it's still present in the Canadian market. I admit I did tend to see more diamond stars over in Europe than I do on a daily basis here. Speaking of...

Also worth noting is that Mitsubishi's only weak market is America. Just like that other non-basketcase Suzuki.

I smiled whenever I saw a Swift or the new Ignis on the trip. And then I frowned when I remembered they'll never be coming back to Canada. :(
 

niky

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I smiled whenever I saw a Swift or the new Ignis on the trip. And then I frowned when I remembered they'll never be coming back to Canada. :(

Was screaming in delight while in Japan. Suzuki Hustlers everywhere. And this:

2017 Mazda Carol After.jpg


The Alto branded as the Mazda Carol. 610 kilograms of Kei car goodness. That's 250 less than the Mirage. About 200 less than any other modern five door Kei car. And about 150 less than the Indian-made deathtrap that wears the same badge.

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I want one. Badly.

-

That said, I think the PSA-Opel deal might be a good one for the GM subsidiary. PSA's products are doing well, and having further brands to share platforms, plants and expenses with is always nice.

As long as badge-engineering exercises aren't as obvious as... *cough* ...the one pictured above.
 

homeforsummer

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Also worth noting is that Mitsubishi's only weak market is America. Just like that other non-basketcase Suzuki.
Mitsubishi's market share in the US is tiny, but I believe they've been growing for several years now on the back of the Mirage, Outlander Sport etc. The ridiculous thing is that they've not yet introduced the Outlander PHEV there, which would surely be a big seller.
The Alto branded as the Mazda Carol. 610 kilograms of Kei car goodness. That's 250 less than the Mirage. About 200 less than any other modern five door Kei car. And about 150 less than the Indian-made deathtrap that wears the same badge.
That does not suit wearing a Mazda badge at all, but I do love that car. The current Alto Works in particular. One of a quartet of new kei cars - the others being the Honda N-One, Daihatsu Copen and Honda S660 - I wish were sold in Europe.
 

VXR

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I do hope GM are giving up on Europe entirely and not trying to push Chevrolet yet again to a disinterested buying public. At least their UK brand shifted units in volume.
 

Robin

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Baggage aside PSA is getting a lot of car company (facilities, workforce, technology) for a relativity cheap £1.9 Billion. It also shows how unattractive Europe has become in recent years for foreign investment, back in the Euro boom auto companies would have loved to have gained a foothold in such a lucrative market (like Tata did).

They say they won't close factories (which every take over owner in the history of mankind has said) but I think it's very likely that Ellesmere Port will get the chop once the Astra K has run it's course, that is unless they use it to make import free Peugeot's and Citroen's for the UK market.

VXR
I do hope GM are giving up on Europe entirely and not trying to push Chevrolet yet again to a disinterested buying public. At least their UK brand shifted units in volume.

I don't think they will, GM will have to fill that Vauxhall/Opel shaped hole in Europe somehow and might hope to make a better go of it this time. Although a different tier I would love to have Cadillac return, some of their new stuff is excellent. Buick would be nice (whatever they end up being) but I don't think the brand would have much pull.

I guess we won't see the first models developed under PSA for a while as most of Vauxhall's range has either just been updated or are about to be updated. I think sales might fall in the interim period as there is a lot of uncertainty and they are going to have to work really had to prove their worth as PSA has said themselves.
 
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Was screaming in delight while in Japan. Suzuki Hustlers everywhere. And this:

View attachment 632273

The Alto branded as the Mazda Carol. 610 kilograms of Kei car goodness. That's 250 less than the Mirage. About 200 less than any other modern five door Kei car. And about 150 less than the Indian-made deathtrap that wears the same badge.

-

I want one. Badly.

Eww, atleast have some attempt at some Kudo design, that's just a lazy rebadge.

Anyway my guess with the Opel ownership will come from platform sharing, more cars on their books using the same platform can reduce costs on each one, plus the relationship with GM might give them some foothold in that department when it comes to drivelines as well, and probably gives them a foothold into North America as a few are sold under other brands.

The car market has been going this way for awhile now, as margins decrease less independent companies will exist until you have a few that own all.
 
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I wonder what's going to happen to Vauxhall, Holden and Buick. They were all largely rebadged Opels.
 

VXR

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You have to wonder if GM hadn't have been so slow in offering Opel free reign to create their own SUVs rather than reheated Isuzu or GM Korea products, it might have been so different. They're only now producing the kind of cars people want to buy in the Mokka and the upcoming xxxxLand models, a good half decade too late at least.
 

homeforsummer

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I wonder what's going to happen to Vauxhall, Holden and Buick. They were all largely rebadged Opels.
Vauxhall is part of the new PSA deal as it's part of GM Europe (worth noting too that Vauxhall does do some model development, so they're not all simply rebadged Opels).

Holden and Buick are harder to judge, though I'd expect GM does have some kind of plan in place as they must have been considering the GM Europe sale for quite some time. I don't know how well cars like the Verano, Regal or Encore sell, but I'm sure the US market wouldn't miss them too much in the short term. Alternatively, PSA may well simply license GM the smaller models if and when they're replaced.
 
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I wonder what's going to happen to Vauxhall, Holden and Buick. They were all largely rebadged Opels.
Holden has been swapping between opels, daewoos and Chevrolets for while now it wouldn't really change much.
 

Robin

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PSA might not be done buying up other marques:
http://www.autoblog.com/2017/03/22/lotus-proton-geely-psa-deal-report/?icid=autoblog|news|lotus-and-proton-might-be-sold-to-peugeot-citroen-after-geely-bails

It could be good news for Lotus. And hey, with Opel in the fold, the return of the Speedster could happen!

Well it could certainly help make some of those concept's they cruelly teased a few years ago a reality!

As for the VX220 I always felt it was a shame its successor the GT never made it to RHD.
 
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I wouldn't mind JLR taking Vauxhall. Three British brands together makes sense with Brexit, IMO.

JLR is held by Tata... I can see it making sense for Vauxhall to go under their wing but I'm still not sure I'd see them as "British".
 

VXR

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Well they own one of tea firms and the steel don't they, so what's one more British institution haha.
 

Robin

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Has Peugeot not heard of the concept of doing your research before you buy?!

At no point did they think to actually look at the engines and specifications or, I dunno, maybe buy a car and do some independent tests of their own? Even if a roadmap is presented to you you don't just take it at face value.

Forget about compensation, why not call the whole deal off because frankly Opel would be in better hands with a less incompetent owner.
 
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Don't these deals only come with a 30-day guarantee? Should have done a trial before you buy. Caveat emptor. :sly:
 

EngieDiesel

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Among the unpleasant surprises was a CO2 compliance plan that relied on significant sales of the Opel Ampera-e electric car, a U.S. import based on GM's Chevrolet Bolt, at a loss approaching 10,000 euros per vehicle, two sources said.
Why does it not surprise me that GM's solution to meeting tighter emission regulations wasn't to improve engine quality, but instead hope they could sell enough EVs (at a significant loss, in a market already becoming saturated with EV/hybrid choices) to fudge the numbers in their favor?
 
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After reading that link, the end scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark (when the Ark is opened) came to mind.
 

Robin

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A replacement for that hopelessly stupid looking subcompact they sell as a Buick here. And I had to just think how amused I am that the only thing Opel needed all along (not to mention immediately returning to being profitable after GM pissed money down the drain on it for two decades) was to no longer be controlled by GM.

The new Mokka is a very good looking car, think that design language will look good across the future range but how good the cars will be in other areas like build quality and spec is yet to be seen. Peugeot seems to want to position all the Vauxhall's below their own equivalents.