PSVR2 + Bass Shakers = new level of immersion.

[roytheboy]

this is the back of my subroofer, where do i connect the black/red open end?

because the bottom section for the open end is all specific to each speaker

• rear left
• rear right
• front left
• front right

-center

there isn't one that labels "subroofer". am i missing something?

if anyone else can provide advice that be awesome

View attachment 1260692

If this picture shows the back of your subwoofer then your subwoofer is actually the system's wiring management unit that also happens to house the subwoofer speaker. The top panel section contains the various input options; the bottom section contains the outputs to all the other speakers that are not the subwoofer. There is no output that you can tap for the subwoofer signal as the subwoofer speaker is inside the box. I guess you could try connecting the amp to the output for the centre speaker but be aware that the amp has its own sound card so it will be expecting a low-gain, unamplified signal, whereas this box will be outputting a high-gain, amplified signal. So on second thoughts, no, do not try and tap anything on this subwoofer/management unit else you might end up blowing your amp!

 

[roytheboy]

I have now completed my 'isolated transducers haptic feedback' project and as promised, I have documented everything I have done in case it helps anyone else. It's rather a long article so I have published it by way of a blog page on my business website. It contains plenty of photos, prices and links to the products used.

https://sinclairdesign.com/blog/sim-racing-haptic-feedback

Many thanks to those on this forum who helped me to get my thoughts straight and steer me in the right direction with regards to coming up with the best final solution 👍

 

[DC5Remy]

this is the back of my subroofer, where do i connect the black/red open end?

because the bottom section for the open end is all specific to each speaker

• rear left
• rear right
• front left
• front right

-center

there isn't one that labels "subroofer". am i missing something?

if anyone else can provide advice that be awesome

View attachment 1260692

I unscrewed that panel and tapped directly to the sub woofer wires.

 

[cptnor]

I have now completed my 'isolated transducers haptic feedback' project and as promised, I have documented everything I have done in case it helps anyone else. It's rather a long article so I have published it by way of a blog page on my business website. It contains plenty of photos, prices and links to the products used.

https://sinclairdesign.com/blog/sim-racing-haptic-feedback

Many thanks to those on this forum who helped me to get my thoughts straight and steer me in the right direction with regards to coming up with the best final solution 👍

Where does this end connect to? I know the top black / red goes to tranducers and middle black to to power

 

[roytheboy]

Where does this end connect to? I know the top black / red goes to tranducers and middle black to to power

…that's the USB connection to the PC.

 

[scottinwales]

Hey guys. Thanks for all the info so far, all really useful and definitely set me off down this route.

One question I have, if I have a 7.1 external soundcard on the pc running Simhub, does the Simhub software let you effectively say
"send 1 channel to the bass kicker" and then send 5 others to Front, Centre and Surrounds ?

I'd like to still have proper 5 channel surround as well as the bass kicker.

Apologies if that's a dumb question!

Grateful for the advice.

 

[raghza]

if I have a 7.1 external soundcard on the pc running Simhub, does the Simhub software let you effectively say
"send 1 channel to the bass kicker" and then send 5 others to Front, Centre and Surrounds ?

I'd like to still have proper 5 channel surround as well as the bass kicker.

Download the Simhub and have a look around the sound output configuration, it allows you to customize pretty much everything.

 

[roytheboy]

Hey guys. Thanks for all the info so far, all really useful and definitely set me off down this route.

One question I have, if I have a 7.1 external soundcard on the pc running Simhub, does the Simhub software let you effectively say
"send 1 channel to the bass kicker" and then send 5 others to Front, Centre and Surrounds ?

I'd like to still have proper 5 channel surround as well as the bass kicker.

Apologies if that's a dumb question!

Grateful for the advice.

SimHub takes multiple channels of telemetry data from GT7 (or other titles) and allows you to enable, disable and/or modify each input channel such that it then outputs low frequency sound waves of a frequency that you can select/modify for each output channel enabled. You can then map/route each selected/modified data channel (right down to the granular level of right/left and front/back where appropriate) to whichever speaker/transducer that you have fitted and equipped with a pre-amp.

Note that SimHub is designed to drive transducers, not normal speakers, so whilst you can drive normal speakers, they probably won’t do the job as expected due to the output frequencies not being within the frequency response range of your normal speaker.

So, for example, if you have one butt-kicker connected to SimHub via a pre-amp, you can select to have just the engine vibrations feeding that butt-kicker, or you can combine every single element of race data from every single telemetry source feeding that butt-kicker or transducer (the butt-kicker is simply a transducer). Obviously, if you do the later, you’re not going to feel much in your seat beyond a ghastly mess of noise, and that is the challenge that everyone has in setting up an effective haptics system.

So, moving on to your scenario, if you have a butt-kicker/transducer (or two, or three) connected to SimHub via pre-amps, and then you make sure that SimHub is able to extract the telemetry data from GT7, you can then select and enhance whichever data channels you wish to feel through your butt-kicker(s)/transducer(s) e.g. you might want to feel engine vibration and road rumble. Just be aware that as soon as you start feeding too much data to a single transducer, you will end up with a mess of vibrations that will overload your senses.

If you also have a surround sound system connected up and ready to roll, then connect the PS5’s normal sound output to that surround sound system in the normal way, completely separate to what you are doing in SimHub with the telemetry data and your butt-kicker(s)/transducer(s). This is where you are getting confused, I think …SimHub handles sound that you wish to convert to haptic feedback, whereas you can still listen to GT7’s normal sound output in the normal way, through headphones or a surround-sound system.

Does that help …have I managed to explain things in a way that you can understand? I get that it's a complicated subject, so I’m not trying to belittle you in any way. It’s also a fact that I might have misunderstood something, so if anything I’ve written above is in any way incorrect, anyone should feel free to correct me. That is, after all, what forums exist for: to establish a forum of collective wisdom.

 

[scottinwales]

Thanks mate - yup all makes sense. The bit I didnt understand until I read your reply and started doing it is that Simhub isn't handling the sound - it's handling telemetry only.
I envisaged the pc handling the sound AND the bass shaker signals - that was my mistake. I was hoping to buy just 1 6 channel amp and send each of the 5 sound signals AND the bass shaker signal to it.

So now I changed that plan and picked up a cheap 5.1 amp which is handling the sound, and the pc handling the bass shaker (1 initially but already got 2 more on the way - certainly didnt expect to be doing that)

Thanks again for making it clear.

 

[roytheboy]

Thanks again for making it clear.

Glad to help, and I realised your misunderstanding. Don't forget my blog that might help you further

https://sinclairdesign.com/blog/sim-racing-haptic-feedback

 

[scottinwales]

Glad to help, and I realised your misunderstanding. Don't forget my blog that might help you further

https://sinclairdesign.com/blog/sim-racing-haptic-feedback

I've got it permanently open in a tab!

 

[the Interceptor]

Cheers gentlemen!

I am currently rebuilding my sim rig and planning to integrate sim hub running on a dedicated mini pc. I am now facing the question of how many shakers I should use and at which positions on the rig. I previously ran two shakers mounted to the left & right side of my rig playing back a filtered audio signal. Less than ideal, but it worked reasonably well. In my rebuilt however, I'd like to now go down the sim hub route.

Roy, I really like what you did and I am planning to go with your way. I just wonded whether you, or anyone with experience, meanwhile have learned more and would today recommend to do anything differently.

 

[roytheboy]

Roy, I really like what you did and I am planning to go with your way. I just wonded whether you, or anyone with experience, meanwhile have learned more and would today recommend to do anything differently.

I've been running my rig ever since, and exactly as I first built it. Apart from the fact that the PC laptop needs regular restarts and OS updates (usual Windoze crap), I'm very happy with everything just as it is. No neighbours or other household occupants have ever said they can hear the rig in use, and the sense of immersion is staggeringly good, especially in VR and with the hugging-harness that I have also detailed in a blog on my website. In short: no, I would not change anything with the benefit of hindsight 👍

 

[the Interceptor]

Then I will rebuild my rig by your advice. Thank you!

 

[roytheboy]

Then I will rebuild my rig by your advice. Thank you!

Plenty of people have said they intend to follow what I did, but nobody has yet come back and said if they actually did. I'd hate for you to spend time on something that you later regret. All I can say is that I've explained my logic and I like the results. If you do the same and you like it, great; but if you don't like it, the BIG thing about my suggested mechanism is that it is all very adjustable through the use of various washer types and bolt tightnesses ...so you can tweak it until you do like it.

 

[the Interceptor]

Plenty of people have said they intend to follow what I did, but nobody has yet come back and said if they actually did. I'd hate for you to spend time on something that you later regret. All I can say is that I've explained my logic and I like the results. If you do the same and you like it, great; but if you don't like it, the BIG thing about my suggested mechanism is that it is all very adjustable through the use of various washer types and bolt tightnesses ...so you can tweak it until you do like it.

No worries, what you worked out makes total sense to me. I've made a number of experiments on my rig in my time, and based on that, mechanical decoupling of the seat and pedals from their respective base while fixed-mounting shakers to them is the way to go also in my opinion. Getting a fixed rig to vibrate, as a whole or in part, is just draining a whole lot of motion energy for no reason.
Additionally, I made the experience that while some effects (such as 6 DOF full motion rig) are very impressive, they are unobtainable within reason and also have their own drawbacks. Instead, a balanced combination of many smaller factors such as a proper FF wheel, good pedals with a custom selection of springs and a load cell for the brake, a racing seat with harnesses, VR and your shaker setup, can add up to a scaring amount of realism. Scary in a good way, that is.

And I do have two shakers, a stereo amplifier, an external sound card, a passively cooled low-power Windows pc and four point racing harness for/in my rig as we speak, so this just needs some elbow grease for a rebuild/reconfiguration.

 

[roytheboy]

No worries, what you worked out makes total sense to me. ... And I do have two shakers, a stereo amplifier, an external sound card, a passively cooled low-power Windows pc and four point racing harness for/in my rig as we speak, so this just needs some elbow grease for a rebuild/reconfiguration.

I think we're on the same page here 👍

With regards to the harness, this works extremely well > https://sinclairdesign.com/blog/sim-racing-flexible-harness-for-vr

 

[Met Entso]

EDIT: after some re-reading I think i will go for OP setup of 2 bst-1 front and back. Have seen some solutions to attach the back shaker to the Trophy.

 

[protohyp]

Hey Guys.

I had been messing around with the nobsound amp with two Dayton Audio BST-1's and it worked well. I like my ride and race to be violent so I would push everything to its limit and the amp constantly clipped. Shifting was a nice big knock and although I have analog motion on my rig via a wiper motor for acceleration the immersion was pretty good but the clipping was annoying because in the middle of the race the amp would just cut and no bass shakers whatsoever.

Now I dumped the nobsound and got the Aiyama A7 as its not much more expensive than the Nobsound but there is absolutely no clipping and rumble strips are spot on and really make your race more brutal if you're into those things. It blows away the Nobsound for sure and is putting out over 100 watts to the BST-1s that I know the Daytons prefer. Because my system which is just a Surface 3 Tablet running the system it uses headphone out vs the Nobsound sound card and it works better than the Nobsound ever did.

To top off the rig I added a a Vizio sound bar with surround running right through the seatbelt holes in my seat and now I am literally INSIDE the car. I play pretty much 95% in PSVR2 so the immersion is absolutely AWESOME!!!

I have two extra BST-1's and have messed around with trying to add them to corners but it requires a lot more thought because the 8020 rig tends to be too rigid to really pinpoint the corner from which the shaker is shaking.

Anyway not to knock the Nobsound but I'd highly suggest the Aiyama A7 over it even if you have to run it through headphone out. It absolutely trumps the Nobsound output.

 

[BWX]

Hey Guys.

I had been messing around with the nobsound amp with two Dayton Audio BST-1's and it worked well. I like my ride and race to be violent so I would push everything to its limit and the amp constantly clipped. Shifting was a nice big knock and although I have analog motion on my rig via a wiper motor for acceleration the immersion was pretty good but the clipping was annoying because in the middle of the race the amp would just cut and no bass shakers whatsoever.

Now I dumped the nobsound and got the Aiyama A7 as its not much more expensive than the Nobsound but there is absolutely no clipping and rumble strips are spot on and really make your race more brutal if you're into those things. It blows away the Nobsound for sure and is putting out over 100 watts to the BST-1s that I know the Daytons prefer. Because my system which is just a Surface 3 Tablet running the system it uses headphone out vs the Nobsound sound card and it works better than the Nobsound ever did.

To top off the rig I added a a Vizio sound bar with surround running right through the seatbelt holes in my seat and now I am literally INSIDE the car. I play pretty much 95% in PSVR2 so the immersion is absolutely AWESOME!!!

I have two extra BST-1's and have messed around with trying to add them to corners but it requires a lot more thought because the 8020 rig tends to be too rigid to really pinpoint the corner from which the shaker is shaking.

Anyway not to knock the Nobsound but I'd highly suggest the Aiyama A7 over it even if you have to run it through headphone out. It absolutely trumps the Nobsound output.View attachment 1356851View attachment 1356852View attachment 1356853View attachment 1356854View attachment 1356855

That's a pretty sweet setup. As far as your amp cutting out, I wonder if you're running those transducers in parallel or series, because if you're running them parallel you're creating a 2 ohm load on the amp which aren't designed for it, they are 4 ohm load at the lowest.

Maybe you already know everything about that, just curious. That would explain why it was cutting out, to protect itself from overheating or blowing up.

I'm only running 2 x 50 watt 4 Ohm AuraSound AST-2B-4 Pro Tactile Transducers in series under my seat with one Dayton Audio SPA250 (single channel) using low level output from my subwoofer to create an 8 ohm load and they thump really hard. I think about adding more sometimes but they're centrally located on my rid and shake the whole thing pretty well. That combined with FFB vibes and subwoofer going really adds a lot to the VR experience. Sometimes I forget to turn my Bass shaker amp on and everything feels dead until I figure it out. It happened last week and I was confused why it felt weird driving for a few minutes.

Just curious about your wiring configuration on the transducers. They shouldn't overheat or overload even that smallish amp that was cutting out. Only reason I know about all that stuff is because I've been installing complex car stereos and building speakers as a hobby since the late 80's. I have a Kicker sub that looks like the one in your pic in my car actually. Thumps pretty good for a small enclosure!

-------------------------
edit- Was looking around and just ordered this honking thing!
Might use this under sim rig and install the 50 watt Aurasound transducers in a chair or maybe one on the back of my seat or under pedals somewhere in sim rig running off of a separate amp..

Dayton Audio BST-300EX, 300 Watts RMS,Tactile Bass Shaker, 4 Ohms Impedance​

 

[protohyp]

That's a pretty sweet setup. As far as your amp cutting out, I wonder if you're running those transducers in parallel or series, because if you're running them parallel you're creating a 2 ohm load on the amp which aren't designed for it, they are 4 ohm load at the lowest.

Maybe you already know everything about that, just curious. That would explain why it was cutting out, to protect itself from overheating or blowing up.

I'm only running 2 x 50 watt 4 Ohm AuraSound AST-2B-4 Pro Tactile Transducers in series under my seat with one Dayton Audio SPA250 (single channel) using low level output from my subwoofer to create an 8 ohm load and they thump really hard. I think about adding more sometimes but they're centrally located on my rid and shake the whole thing pretty well. That combined with FFB vibes and subwoofer going really adds a lot to the VR experience. Sometimes I forget to turn my Bass shaker amp on and everything feels dead until I figure it out. It happened last week and I was confused why it felt weird driving for a few minutes.

Just curious about your wiring configuration on the transducers. They shouldn't overheat or overload even that smallish amp that was cutting out. Only reason I know about all that stuff is because I've been installing complex car stereos and building speakers as a hobby since the late 80's. I have a Kicker sub that looks like the one in your pic in my car actually. Thumps pretty good for a small enclosure!

Thanks for the kudos.

They're wired in stereo so left and right not off one channel in either series or parallel. I, like you, have been doing sound competitions in the 80's as well and was the first to put my Alpine 6 CD controller in the steering wheel of my Honda Accord. Won quite a few awards in the 500-1000 watt class.

Actually two things were happening in the cutout. Because the Surface 3 doesn't have the best processing power with the Nobsound running as the sound card Simhub itself would stop processing sound and graphs would not show any output. Other times the graphs would be showing output but the Nobsound was not outputting. I have since brought the nobsound outside to my workshop and using it for bluetooth to my JBL speakers and it works great. There has been absolutely no issues since switching to the Aiyama amp. If I up the power supply to 48V I could essentially push 300 watts per channel but man the BST-1 are plenty and absolutely more than enough with the amp running volume at around 60%.

The biggest thing is the fidelity on suspension feedback I can get with the Aiyama over the Nobsound. It was frustrating because the Nobsound just didn't overpower the Podium F1 feedback on rumble strips but the Aiyama definitely does so the balance is so much better.

For reference I'm running the bass shakers in the front and the rear and running Engine Noise, Gearshift, Wheel lock and slip, Road Vibrations and Road impacts. Moreover everything is running in MONO vs 'stereo' and it works out for my preference that way.

 

[BWX]

Thanks for the kudos.

They're wired in stereo so left and right not off one channel in either series or parallel. I, like you, have been doing sound competitions in the 80's as well and was the first to put my Alpine 6 CD controller in the steering wheel of my Honda Accord. Won quite a few awards in the 500-1000 watt class.

Actually two things were happening in the cutout. Because the Surface 3 doesn't have the best processing power with the Nobsound running as the sound card Simhub itself would stop processing sound and graphs would not show any output. Other times the graphs would be showing output but the Nobsound was not outputting. I have since brought the nobsound outside to my workshop and using it for bluetooth to my JBL speakers and it works great. There has been absolutely no issues since switching to the Aiyama amp. If I up the power supply to 48V I could essentially push 300 watts per channel but man the BST-1 are plenty and absolutely more than enough with the amp running volume at around 60%.

The biggest thing is the fidelity on suspension feedback I can get with the Aiyama over the Nobsound. It was frustrating because the Nobsound just didn't overpower the Podium F1 feedback on rumble strips but the Aiyama definitely does so the balance is so much better.

For reference I'm running the bass shakers in the front and the rear and running Engine Noise, Gearshift, Wheel lock and slip, Road Vibrations and Road impacts. Moreover everything is running in MONO vs 'stereo' and it works out for my preference that way.

Very cool! So you know what you're doing, was just wondering. Yeah I never did any competitions or anything like that, but I probably should have looking back. I had some pretty cool looking setups at times back then but for me it was more about functionality and hiding everything, but some of those systems people created were works of art. I actually made other people's cars look better than mine when I'd install things for my friends. Back then w/o internet it was different as you know, you had to read books, magazines, go talk to people in person, etc., to figure things out.

I have a PC right next to my rig, it's basically a home theater PC the way it's set up, so I want to experiment with sim hub and different channels for the transducers. I have two 7.1 channel sound cards in there already, one on the RTX3080 and an onboard Realtek 7.1 channel that I'm not even using which seems like it would work perfect for this. But I need to build a new PC as well since this one is old now.

Good info about yours, I bet it feels really good and probably can even help you drive faster. I have most everything I need to do it already, but I keep thinking I want to build a profile rig more like yours before I get into that. This little rig is harder to customize for that. I have to start building off of it, drilling holes, cutting square tubing and whatnot, which reduces it's adjustability and strength when you start doing that. And with no extra space in this little room that it's in, it's just not ideal. At this point it's a pretty janky little rig but works well. Just using LFE channel for now but it's still so much better than with no vibes at all. One of these days! ✌

 

[protohyp]

Very cool! So you know what you're doing, was just wondering. Yeah I never did any competitions or anything like that, but I probably should have looking back. I had some pretty cool looking setups at times back then but for me it was more about functionality and hiding everything, but some of those systems people created were works of art. I actually made other people's cars look better than mine when I'd install things for my friends. Back then w/o internet it was different as you know, you had to read books, magazines, go talk to people in person, etc., to figure things out.

I have a PC right next to my rig, it's basically a home theater PC the way it's set up, so I want to experiment with sim hub and different channels for the transducers. I have two 7.1 channel sound cards in there already, one on the RTX3080 and an onboard Realtek 7.1 channel that I'm not even using which seems like it would work perfect for this. But I need to build a new PC as well since this one is old now.

Good info about yours, I bet it feels really good and probably can even help you drive faster. I have most everything I need to do it already, but I keep thinking I want to build a profile rig more like yours before I get into that. This little rig is harder to customize for that. I have to start building off of it, drilling holes, cutting square tubing and whatnot, which reduces it's adjustability and strength when you start doing that. And with no extra space in this little room that it's in, it's just not ideal. At this point it's a pretty janky little rig but works well. Just using LFE channel for now but it's still so much better than with no vibes at all. One of these days! ✌

I've definitely done a lot of testing with Simhub and my 8020 rigs and I have a few things to offer as far as advice for the setup.

1. Mounting matters. With the 8020 being so rigid if I mount them directly to the rig basically centering the shaker on the wider portion of the profile I almost feel NOTHING at any frequency. I actually think this is how most people mount them as it seems the most logical way to mount them securely. Even with a phone call to Parts Express they suggest centering the shakers on whatever you're mounting it to so that the center of the shaker contacts the surface. So with that advice I tried it and was extremely disappointed. Even low rumbling frequencies fell like someone politely tapping your shoulder to get your attention. For reference my profile is 1.5x3.0 so its pretty stout but not as stout as actual 8020.

At any rate I tested several different mounting methods and found that mounting the shaker so that it is cantilevered off the aluminum profile provides INCREDIBLE amount of force and feedback almost 100 times more than the suggest mounting method. So basically two screws to mount with 90% of the shaker floating in the air. This is basically allowing the resonant frequency and motion created by the shaker to be amplified to its most violent output for lack of a better term much like a diving board. It allows me to turn the volume down. Now the shaker under the seat feels like an earthquake that can register on the Richter scale and the one under the pedal tray can really mimic ABS, and other vehicle feedback parameters that you use for your shakers. This method I've found allows you to ride the wave of the frequency you've assigned to the shaker rather than be tapped on the body the assigned frequency. Much more realistic and immersive in my opinion.

2.Tension of mounting the screws makes a big difference. Whether you chose the preferred and suggested method of mounting or cantilevered method like mine how tight you tighten the screws makes a massive difference. The tighter you tighten the less feedback you'll receive and the looser you keep it the more feedback you'll receive. obviously you dont want it so loose that its noisy and rattling but you can test how tight you need it and definitely use locking hardware so it doesn't shake loose.

3. Mounting close to a joint spreads the feedback throughout the rig muddling the location (at least in my experience). This is preventing me from using corner shakers vs front and rear. If I move the shaker along the side farther away from the joint I can locate it a little better but by the time I add the 2nd shaker for the other corner of that side it becomes muddled again. I feel that this is why most people say that front and rear is enough but I won't give up on trying to get corners to work.

4. Feedback is everything. I work on my vehicles myself so I'm hypersensitive to any vibration that might indicate mechanical issues. You're correct in stating that one can be faster because of this feedback. I never tried the LFE method but as you can see it would've been easier for me to do so because I connect everything to my 9.2 home theater but I wanted to give Simhub a try. I've got over 1000 watts of power going to two LFE controlled subs so movies are very powerful but in gameplay they weren't very impressive. This is why I decided to use a dedicated amp and shaker setup via SimHub. If you haven't dived into a shaker setup it will definitely make gaming next level for you and there are so many cheap ways to do it and most of that info is on YouTube and here.

5. Headphone output is perfectly fine. Nicolas from SimHub suggests that a sound card output would be the preferred method for output to the amps controlling the shakers. For me because I use a slow tablet to run Simhub processing power is in short supply so using the Nobsound's sound card ate some precious CPU bandwidth and thats why I think it was cutting output from SimHub. Add to that processing of a mobile dash and everything would cut out. Obviously a faster computer would solve this issue but I'm a Mac user and am not about to buy a computer just for this rig. Color me cheap but thats just me. At any rate because SimHub handles the frequency its already processed by the program and not necessarily by the sound card so whether you're using headphones or your 7.1 sound card 40hz is 40hz coming from both so the amp will see that and send it to the shakers. Because now I use just the headphone output CPU is freed up and I can use Mobile Dash and Shaker output without any issues or cutout. I got a cheap USB to headphone out adapter so I have yet to test its strain on the CPU but I think it will be fine and now I can actually have 4 channels vs 2 from the single tablet headphone output but this brings me back to #3 above about whether corners shakers can be valuable or just redundant.

6. Set aside A LOT of time to troubleshoot and setup and be patient. I would get so frustrated because of the limitations of the Nobsound but also because it just took so long to get the 'feeling's' right. Moving to the Aiyama made it so much easier because of the power increase but also I could focus on really dialing in frequencies and proper feedback it became less tedious. It will still be a work in progress but I'm getting closer to being completed until the next immersion idea comes telemetry data. If only ACC was supported for PS5 in both Simhub and PSVR2 I'd probably never play GT7 but unfortunately that isn't the case.

Anyway I hope this info is helpful to others. I know there are a lot more bullet points I can add but I'm just including the ones I feel to be most beneficial for initial setup.

EDIT: Also as far as getting an 8020 rig I hopped on to OfferUp and got a smoking deal on someone that had all these profiles. For 200.00 I got enough to build two rigs. This is the only way to save money on a DIY setup because buying it from 8020 or Mcmaster Carr you end up spending more than prebuilt rigs from any established company because all the hardware starts to add up.

 

[BWX]

Interesting stuff! Thanks for all the info. Maybe I will start with just trying to get a 2 or 3 channel setup working on simhub on this old rig and my PC actually. The thing I know I won't like is any delay in the vibes. I finally got it so there isn't any perceptible delay using PS5 when I'm running the sound through eARC on TV then to Yamaha RX-A8080 receiver. I'm using DTS in GT7 sound settings (just happens to have the least delay on my setup), 7.1 channel, and then using certain settings on the receiver or I get a delay. With GT7 I can use PSVR2 sound through the PSVR2 earbuds as well as through the TV via eARC HDMI at the same time and have gotten the setting just right for minimal delay coming out of the receiver, but in some PS5 games I've noticed it will only let sound go to one or the other. Stuff like that starts getting frustrating real quick. But then I also want it to work on PC sims and games. It gets pretty complicated pretty quick LOL.

That's why I've just been running 1 channel LFE from receiver for the transducers, it's simple and just works with everything connected to the receiver, but I know I'm missing out on more detail that a simhub/ multiple channel transducer setup can do. But then I have so many other hobbies and interest taking up my time I just always end up leaving it the way it is. It's not too bad since I can precicely control the gain and crossover point on that Dayton amp for the tranducers and have no perceptible or very little delay but I'm missing out on the individual effects and directionality you can get in simhub/ multiple transducer setup. I probably need to just start experimenting with it, I basically have everything I need to get simhub up an running on my PC already. It's a big rabbit hole once you start changing things though.

 

[protohyp]

Interesting stuff! Thanks for all the info. Maybe I will start with just trying to get a 2 or 3 channel setup working on simhub on this old rig and my PC actually. The thing I know I won't like is any delay in the vibes. I finally got it so there isn't any perceptible delay using PS5 when I'm running the sound through eARC on TV then to Yamaha RX-A8080 receiver. I'm using DTS in GT7 sound settings (just happens to have the least delay on my setup), 7.1 channel, and then using certain settings on the receiver or I get a delay. With GT7 I can use PSVR2 sound through the PSVR2 earbuds as well as through the TV via eARC HDMI at the same time and have gotten the setting just right for minimal delay coming out of the receiver, but in some PS5 games I've noticed it will only let sound go to one or the other. Stuff like that starts getting frustrating real quick. But then I also want it to work on PC sims and games. It gets pretty complicated pretty quick LOL.

That's why I've just been running 1 channel LFE from receiver for the transducers, it's simple and just works with everything connected to the receiver, but I know I'm missing out on more detail that a simhub/ multiple channel transducer setup can do. But then I have so many other hobbies and interest taking up my time I just always end up leaving it the way it is. It's not too bad since I can precicely control the gain and crossover point on that Dayton amp for the tranducers and have no perceptible or very little delay but I'm missing out on the individual effects and directionality you can get in simhub/ multiple transducer setup. I probably need to just start experimenting with it, I basically have everything I need to get simhub up an running on my PC already. It's a big rabbit hole once you start changing things though.

Absolutely is a rabbit hole but so worth it. In theory you would want to set up simhub for your entire Livery because each vehicle is different but thats for people that have nothing better to do and I feel you on wishing to have really one setup for all the games you play but then life would be too easy.

I actually started using my home theater system with DSP set on Game Mode and it was pretty awesome. Gaming in 7.1 is pretty awesome. Then when I needed to be quiet the Sony Pulse Headset. but now...with the sound bar and surround speakers behind my ears I am literally INSIDE the car. A rear engine car sounds with RPM vibrations and noise is absolutely INSANE. Because I solely play in PSVR2 I didnt really need my home theater anymore and since my rig is mobile I can move it outside on really nice days or wheel it over to a neighbors house for the many parties that they throw. Its so convenient having the rig on wheels. about 5% of my friends can handle PSVR so having the PS5 mounted to the rig so that I can bring it over and connect to their TV makes it super convenient.

I can tell you that anyone that comes over instantly wants me to build them one.

 

[BWX]

Absolutely is a rabbit hole but so worth it. In theory you would want to set up simhub for your entire Livery because each vehicle is different but thats for people that have nothing better to do and I feel you on wishing to have really one setup for all the games you play but then life would be too easy.

I actually started using my home theater system with DSP set on Game Mode and it was pretty awesome. Gaming in 7.1 is pretty awesome. Then when I needed to be quiet the Sony Pulse Headset. but now...with the sound bar and surround speakers behind my ears I am literally INSIDE the car. A rear engine car sounds with RPM vibrations and noise is absolutely INSANE. Because I solely play in PSVR2 I didnt really need my home theater anymore and since my rig is mobile I can move it outside on really nice days or wheel it over to a neighbors house for the many parties that they throw. Its so convenient having the rig on wheels. about 5% of my friends can handle PSVR so having the PS5 mounted to the rig so that I can bring it over and connect to their TV makes it super convenient.

I can tell you that anyone that comes over instantly wants me to build them one.

That's really cool. What I've been doing is just cranking up subwoofer output to +6db so rest of 7.1 system isn't too loud, so I can't hear it over the ear buds, then crank up subwoofer gain, and crank up gain on transducer amp to taste for each car. It's all within arms reach from rig. So using ear buds, subwoofer, and transducer. I'm in a small room with 7.1 though, so I can also not use earbuds and crank the entire system up and it also feels like I'm in the car. This receiver is crazy powerful and has room setup with a microphone with multiple zones so the sound is timed to the millisecond and each speaker has it's own custom EQ curve so it's very balanced. But still probably doesn't put you "inside the car" quite as well as if I had surround speakers right on the rig itself. But I still have fun with it!

 

[BWX]

This 300 watt Dayton Audio BST-300EX is kinda nuts. First I removed aluminum plate I was using for the two smaller bass shakers, then scraped / filed off the JB Weld that I had put under the plate to eliminate rattling, then installed the BST-300EX directly to that cross support under the seat.

I forgot I had the 35hz +6bd boost switched on, on the Dayton Audio SPA250 250W plate amplifier and was testing it out on some subwoofer test bass videos on youtube and it felt like my rig was levitating before the transducer bottomed out on one of those crazy bass tones. Almost to the point my eyes were shaking.

I switched off the 35hz boost and it never bottomed out again. It's insanely powerful, and running the amp at 4 ohms really heats it up now, might have to install a fan on the heatsink fins. I'm using more of the amps power though now because I was running it at an 8 ohm load before. When running GT7 with PSVR2 it shakes so much at times, the view in VR was vibrating. But that only happens on some cars. Sometimes it's too powerful and I have to turn the gain down on the amp or adjust sub level out down on the receiver. I've been using strategically placed zip ties and generic dynamat type material to eliminate rattling on the rig. Basically have to do the same thing as you would running subwoofer in a car. Happen to have rig on an uneven concrete in basement room, so need to shim it up to get it level. Thinking about making a platform out of steel square tubing with adjutable feet so I don't have to do that anymore.

I might install one of the 50 watt Aurasound transducers under the pedal box and run it off of a separate 100 watt amp, then can start experimenting with dual channel and simhub. I suppose I could experiment with simhub with only one transducer though. I think GT7 sound is designed to have bass hit in the correct spots for using LFE subwooker out for bass shakers though. It hits over curbs, on impacts, and when shifting correctly. If I turn up the crossover point you can get higher tones and can feel engine vibration and tire scrubbing too. Those bass tones aren't adjustable though. You kind of get what you get using LFE.

It's a beast

 

[protohyp]

This 300 watt Dayton Audio BST-300EX is kinda nuts. First I removed aluminum plate I was using for the two smaller bass shakers, then scraped / filed off the JB Weld that I had put under the plate to eliminate rattling, then installed the BST-300EX directly to that cross support under the seat.

I forgot I had the 35hz +6bd boost switched on, on the Dayton Audio SPA250 250W plate amplifier and was testing it out on some subwoofer test bass videos on youtube and it felt like my rig was levitating before the transducer bottomed out on one of those crazy bass tones. Almost to the point my eyes were shaking.

I switched off the 35hz boost and it never bottomed out again. It's insanely powerful, and running the amp at 4 ohms really heats it up now, might have to install a fan on the heatsink fins. I'm using more of the amps power though now because I was running it at an 8 ohm load before. When running GT7 with PSVR2 it shakes so much at times, the view in VR was vibrating. But that only happens on some cars. Sometimes it's too powerful and I have to turn the gain down on the amp or adjust sub level out down on the receiver. I've been using strategically placed zip ties and generic dynamat type material to eliminate rattling on the rig. Basically have to do the same thing as you would running subwoofer in a car. Happen to have rig on an uneven concrete in basement room, so need to shim it up to get it level. Thinking about making a platform out of steel square tubing with adjutable feet so I don't have to do that anymore.

I might install one of the 50 watt Aurasound transducers under the pedal box and run it off of a separate 100 watt amp, then can start experimenting with dual channel and simhub. I suppose I could experiment with simhub with only one transducer though. I think GT7 sound is designed to have bass hit in the correct spots for using LFE subwooker out for bass shakers though. It hits over curbs, on impacts, and when shifting correctly. If I turn up the crossover point you can get higher tones and can feel engine vibration and tire scrubbing too. Those bass tones aren't adjustable though. You kind of get what you get using LFE.

View attachment 1357637


It's a beast
View attachment 1357635

Nice!!!!

I had considered getting the 300 after being disappointed with the Nobsound but after the BST-1's received the proper power there was no need to consider it because it was/is more than enough even with volume at 60%. I can't even imagine what the 300 is putting out or what it feels like and this is coming from someone that at least in my home theater needs the lowest deepest possible bass output.

Yeah I guess its cool to be able to experiment with LFE but thats the cool thing about SimHub is that it is your multi channel multi frequency LFE processor so you can run basically anything after that to power whatever you have.

Honestly at least for me my only requirement for my rig is that its as rigid as can be with a 20NM wheel. I could've achieved that without using 8020 and just welded together something with all the scrap metal that I have laying around. If yours is rigid enough and you have an easy method to mount the bass shakers I wouldn't bother with trying an 8020 rig. If anything invest in motion systems that you can adapt to your rig since you're going to have a PC close by that can run it all. Once you have motion augmenting the shakers and the VR its next level.

 

[BWX]

Yeah it's sturdy enough, but had to install my own bracing to get it that way. It's an older version of this rig (in link), same model as in vid I found below. So much stuff around it can't really get a good pic of it, it's tight in this room. It's got small-ish diameter steel square tubing but it's pretty thick walled and very strong. Takes a while to drill through it. I'm using 1 inch aluminum square tubing for reinforcement/ bracing. Need to add some more but it's still strong enough for load cell brake and any DD wheel. I'd have to rearrange everything to get an 8020 rig in here and motion is out of the question because of space needed. But at some point I'd like to do that too! Interesting the company is still going 10 years later. The new rigs are basically like mine with all the added bracing already installed or designed into the rig.

You can see how you could mount the entire thing onto a rectangle built of steel square tubing and mount motion to the base. It's all just steel square tubes. And it came with a real car seat so I can adjust seat back and forth like you can in a car and it also reclines which is nice. Can lean back in single seaters or sit more upright in road cars/ rally cars. And I move the seat back for ingress / egress. It's pretty cool!

Build Your Own SR-X Bundle – Sim Seats

sim-seats.com

A lot of those parts would bolt right onto my rig.

 

[protohyp]

Yeah it's sturdy enough, but had to install my own bracing to get it that way. It's an older version of this rig (in link), same model as in vid I found below. So much stuff around it can't really get a good pic of it, it's tight in this room. It's got small-ish diameter steel square tubing but it's pretty thick walled and very strong. Takes a while to drill through it. I'm using 1 inch aluminum square tubing for reinforcement/ bracing. Need to add some more but it's still strong enough for load cell brake and any DD wheel. I'd have to rearrange everything to get an 8020 rig in here and motion is out of the question because of space needed. But at some point I'd like to do that too! Interesting the company is still going 10 years later. The new rigs are basically like mine with all the added bracing already installed or designed into the rig.

View attachment 1357941



You can see how you could mount the entire thing onto a rectangle built of steel square tubing and mount motion to the base. It's all just steel square tubes. And it came with a real car seat so I can adjust seat back and forth like you can in a car and it also reclines which is nice. Can lean back in single seaters or sit more upright in road cars/ rally cars. And I move the seat back for ingress / egress. It's pretty cool!

Build Your Own SR-X Bundle – Sim Seats

sim-seats.com

A lot of those parts would bolt right onto my rig.

View attachment 1357942

If thats the case then I'd say dont bother with the 8020 rig. its not worth it if you have absolutely the rigidity you need and you aren't really moving things around. I have to because I'm not the only one racing my rig so I need adjustability when my friends come over that are over 6'4" tall because just moving the seat back doesn't cut it plus they have size 14 shoes so I need to be able to raise the pedals a little bit. My guess is you could easily make it more rigid than you have easily as well as easily bolt on other things as well as you have. I'm guessing that you have the area temperature controlled but just be mindful of mixing the aluminum with steel and having galvanic corrosion that could bond the two together.

I'm wondering if you could also run some tests to verify output via mounting the shakers how you have them as well as how I have them and see if it makes a difference. I need to find out if someone else experiences the output I have because of the mounting method.

Looking forward to when you get it all in and out of LFE output. would love to hear your feedback.