Punished for being rear-ended???

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jesQuick

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This has got to change. I'm tired of being SR punished by drivers who apparently doesn't know where the breaks are.
I know the rules are different IRL pro racing but DP needs to change the rules to how it is in normal traffic. There it's always (with very few exceptions) the one driving behind who's responsible for keeping a proper distance and not crashing up into the one in front.
The punishment needs to go to the driver without breaks!
What do you guys think? Am I right??
 
Generally yes, but if this change is implemented (the driver who rear-ends you gets the penalty and you do not) - it can be easily abused because people will start hitting the breaks in situations where no break is needed so that the guy who is tailgating gets the penalty without being guilty.
 
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It needs to be tweaked thats for sure. And if youve been playing the game over the last few weeks, you would have noticed they have been making changes to the SR and contact system.

The best advice I can give is to pay attention to other drivers on the track. I'm always paying attention my rear view mirror, my radar, and other drivers behaviour. It doesn't always work, but If you see someone dive bomb or late brake adjust your line to let them through, you'll most likely get them on the switchback. Its all a balancing act between being aggressive when defending, or letting someone have the inside line to reduce risk of contact.

The tricky part is coding an AI that is smart enough to detect a rear end shunt, vs a brake check. If they always give fault to the driver behind, you'll find people complaining about drivers brake checking them.
 
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I can get behind this it happens way, way, way too often, I still maintain that the car behind needs to be punished more for contact, The lead car always in every single motorsports discipline always has choice of racing line, braking point etc, The car behind needs to judge accordingly.
 
Does anyone agree that we could do with a sticky thread or "All things SR" thread to explain these points. These threads are very common and I find myself and others just repeating ourselves over and over. Would be beneficial for everyone involved I think :)

I do agree though, hits from behind are often cut and dry the guy behind's fault.
 

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ststav01
Generally yes, but if this change is implemented (the driver who rear-ends you get the penalty and yo do not) can be easily abused because people will start hitting the breaks in situations where no break is needed so that the guy who is tailgating gets the penalty without being guilty.
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A simple fix that would go a long way is just a basic zone detection system within the SR system. If you’re well within a braking zone and someone runs up your backside you should not receive a pentalty. Since it’s a braking zone, one cannot really abuse it to “brake check” your opponent either.
 
I hear you all.
Sure, it could be abused but no more than how it is now.
But you have a much better chance to defend yourself against the on-purpose-late-brakers than the people crashing you from behind. It just takes one turn and late brake and you know to watch out for that person at the next turn...

Btw, which changes have they made to the SR system. I haven't noticed anything new?!
 
something needs to change, if you are on the racing line heading into a corner and some one needs to get back on the racing line to make the corner side bangs you out and it seems the person on the racing line gets a SR penalty. If you not on the racing line back off!!!
 
One issue is if someone is swerving all over the track to stop you passing, and then clips you? Under this new proposed idea the guy behind would get the penalty. I have a feeling things like that are why it is the way it is today.
 
GTWelsh
One issue is if someone is swerving all over the track to stop you passing, and then clips you? Under this new proposed idea the guy behind would get the penalty. I have a feeling things like that are why it is the way it is today.
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Which is why it should only be implemented within braking zones. If you’re swerving in a braking zone, you’re not only a special kind of moron who isn’t going to be stopped by any system, you’re also probably going to crash out on that corner.

No system is going to be perfect but there are a few things that can at least minimise a bulk of these really frustrating issues occurring.
 
Yesterday some guy goes completely in oversteer goiing sideways i am on the inside can't avoid him i get a penalty
it's not always the fault of the player coming from behind
 
jesQuick
This has got to change. I'm tired of being SR punished by drivers who apparently doesn't know where the breaks are.
I know the rules are different IRL pro racing but DP needs to change the rules to how it is in normal traffic. There it's always (with very few exceptions) the one driving behind who's responsible for keeping a proper distance and not crashing up into the one in front.
The punishment needs to go to the driver without breaks!
What do you guys think? Am I right??
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And what if the newbie in front of you brakes too early and you cannot avoid him? Then you would get the penalty and he not.

IMO it’s still best to punish both in the case of the braking zones.

TCG
A simple fix that would go a long way is just a basic zone detection system within the SR system. If you’re well within a braking zone and someone runs up your backside you should not receive a pentalty. Since it’s a braking zone, one cannot really abuse it to “brake check” your opponent either.
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This would not be as simple as you make it sound since braking zones are dynamic, depending on car class, car tune and track temperature.
 
Depo
Yesterday some guy goes completely in oversteer goiing sideways i am on the inside can't avoid him i get a penalty
it's not always the fault of the player coming from behind
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Very true, have had this happen a bit too and while I agree it’s not always the fault of the person behind, something is better than nothing while cornering compared to what we have now.
 
breyzipp
And what if the newbie in front of you brakes too early and you cannot avoid him? Then you would get the penalty and he not.

IMO it’s still best to punish both in the case of the braking zones.
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No system is perfect but we need a system that specifically counters griefing. Personally I'd rather have the occasional error than how it is now...
 
jesQuick
No system is perfect but we need a system that specifically counters griefing. Personally I'd rather have the occasional error than how it is now...
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Honestly I think the penalties in SR should be more severe. I only raced 2 days now and I’m already SR A and to be honest there has been quite a lot of contact / going off track in those races, some caused by others but some by my own fault as well.

Even though I think I already race very gentle I know I could do much better in the SR department if the game would encourage me to do so. And judging from how some idiots just ram me off the track when we’re not even fighting for a podium place, they obviously don’t care about their SR and the consequences of getting negative SR are not severe enough.
 
I have only been in a clean race 1 time. There has to be stricter penalties for ramming someone from behind for sure. I got my SR rating down from B to C because of that very thing. I try to be as clean as I can be, but the moment someone opens the door, I am defensively dirty. It sucks that those types of drivers don't take themselves to the open lobby. They don't even end up winning. They end up in the middle to rear of the pack.
 
breyzipp
Honestly I think the penalties in SR should be more severe. I only raced 2 days now and I’m already SR A and to be honest there has been quite a lot of contact / going off track in those races, some caused by others but some by my own fault as well.

Even though I think I already race very gentle I know I could do much better in the SR department if the game would encourage me to do so. And judging from how some idiots just ram me off the track when we’re not even fighting for a podium place, they obviously don’t care about their SR and the consequences of getting negative SR are not severe enough.
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I like how you think. Perhaps special rewards with limited edition cars and VIP access to special events would be a better way to go. Positive reinforcement.
 
They basically have already in place brake zones, you cones and brake alert do that, so basically you can catch who's brake testing.
Remember also that here is an algorithm that has to solve this situation with a lot of data in place.
It should consider on hits a kinda buffer of +/- 2 sec from hit to judge who will need to be punished and who much
 
TCG
Which is why it should only be implemented within braking zones. If you’re swerving in a braking zone, you’re not only a special kind of moron who isn’t going to be stopped by any system, you’re also probably going to crash out on that corner.

No system is going to be perfect but there are a few things that can at least minimise a bulk of these really frustrating issues occurring.
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This would create other problems already pointed by others.
Breaking zones are not the same for every one.Different people -skill or style or pace-,with different cars and different set ups are most of the times have different breaking points and propably different lines in some parts of the track.
Also many many time people would break-check the guy behind them in racing titles or even in RL.
I posted several times in these forums that imo the SR is not working as good as it should.
The main problem is that in some cases it gives a penalty to clean people being "clean" and rewards "dirty" driving.But going from one side to the extreme opposite will not solve problems,would only create other kind of problems.
I had a race 2 days ago where the guy in front was clearly slower than me and the guy behind me.He was too slow going into corners that his breaking zone was really early.I had to break early myself and really hard to avoid hitting him.The moment I would do that,the guy behind me would hit me and we both would get a negative SR.I did try to negotiate as good as I could the situation but it was really difficult.Pretty much the guy in front was blocking/break-checking the entire race and the guy behind was pushing/hitting me from behind.None of us lost or gained positions in the end,but I was the only one to get a negative SR for trying to be fair to both of them.....
 
I normally move to the other side of the track if I know the other car is faster but they still hit me must be a lot of blinf drivers.
 
I have had drivers lock it down in a corner after going in too hot 3 cars wide, randomly break in the middle of a straight, come back onto the track in a corner after bouncing off the wall, break check me or hit me from behind pushing me into the guy in front of me and i have hit them from behind many times in this game. It is not always the guy behind who is at fault. It's not as simple as making the rule "the guy in behind is always wrong" and if that happens it frees the drivers in front from any responsibility.

I think that many of the "I got it in the rear it's the other guys fault" posts may even be the opposite. While irl the guy behind is most responsible for his actions, he can also count on the guy in front being a responsible racer. This is not true in this game. The system works since it is based on averages.
 
I really don't know how some of you find these lobbies. Just unlucky I guess. I had great racing all night last night in Gr4. There were some incidents and I do see some racers going for overtakes in very risky places. I had one issue where I clipped the grass and tried to re enter the track carefully but got dinged by someone still going flat out, even though I was obviously slightly sketchy as I headed back on circuit.

Meanwhile, if someone looks like they're about to loose it, I'll back off, tap the brakes n try to avoid any contact, but I don't see many others adopt this mentality.

I swear some people just race, and if they are in front, they think "it's my line and it's up to the other people to not crash". Well, that's not how racing works. Use your radar. If someone is looking like trying a move leave them room. This doesn't mean don't defend, but don't just cut them off, and then when they hit blame them. I had some great door handle to door handle racing with the odd gentle paint rub but this does not affect SR imo.

I had 1 incident in about 10 races last night and the lobbies were fast and clean. I love the online experience and how they matchmake. Quick clean racing.
 
breyzipp
And judging from how some idiots just ram me off the track when we’re not even fighting for a podium place, they obviously don’t care about their SR and the consequences of getting negative SR are not severe enough.
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I think you may be over estimating your fellow racers abilities. It's a new game, a lot of people are playing with ds4's(badly), the daily races do not give racers time to properly prepare, especially if they are new, etc.

I was ran out of the road by a guy intentionally last night and got really pissed, until a second or 2 later he slowed slightly on purpose to let me have my position back. It was just a driving mistake.

I also took a guy out on accident myself. We were racing hard and he got in the lead and I raced beyond my abilities trying to overtake and rammed the **** out of him accidentally. I felt so bad I slowed and then didn't try to overtake him for the entire last lap. I wish there was a way to apologize in instances like this but I guess it would get abused by griefers.
 


Here is a good example of the games broken SR system.

The coding views me as going slower than required, or not taking the right line, or blocking the guy in 4th or maybe even it thinks I purposely brake checked him.

However, the code has no way of recognizing that I was hit attempting to slow down and avoid an accident I wasn't a part of, and that the lambo driver in front of me should've been on the brakes as well, not trying to fly through a clear accident at full throttle.

I end up being given a 10 sec penalty, and finishing in 9th after starting in third.

The most annoying thing is us in the top 3 all qualified with similar times, and 4th had already fallen back about a full second, so if I get through clean without being rammed I likely have the pace to hold first.
 
Sean Renon


Here is a good example of the games broken SR system.

The coding views me as going slower than required, or not taking the right line, or blocking the guy in 4th or maybe even it thinks I purposely brake checked him.

However, the code has no way of recognizing that I was hit attempting to slow down and avoid an accident I wasn't a part of, and that the lambo driver in front of me should've been on the brakes as well, not trying to fly through a clear accident at full throttle.

I end up being given a 10 sec penalty, and finishing in 9th after starting in third.

The most annoying thing is us in the top 3 all qualified with similar times, and 4th had already fallen back about a full second, so if I get through clean without being rammed I likely have the pace to hold first.
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I think you got a penalty for both "blocking" the Lambo and also hitting the Porsche in front of you.I am not sure but thats what it looks like.
 
JulesDennis
I think you got a penalty for both "blocking" the Lambo and also hitting the Porsche in front of you.I am not sure but thats what it looks like.
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Yep but he has no much other option than disappear, isn't it?
But how you can judge that crash better? An AI trained approach would probably help, but it is CPU consuming. An switch/if/else downfall will lead on those kind of extreme "punishment" but in realtime.

Got a question: would be more open in having delayed punishment (e.g. within 5/20 seconds from the fact) but better analysed or realtime but more raw?
 
gh3
Yep but he has no much other option than disappear, isn't it?
But how you can judge that crash better? An AI trained approach would probably help, but it is CPU consuming. An switch/if/else downfall will lead on those kind of extreme "punishment" but in realtime.

Got a question: would be more open in having delayed punishment (e.g. within 5/20 seconds from the fact) but better analysed or realtime but more raw?
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I would've backed off earlier. You could see what was unfolding yet he drove into the problem and then didn't have time to react. Why try to drive between them? WTF!

It also looked like there was very jerky direction changes from the drivers perspective which would be very hard to predict if you were following.

I certainly would not have made the decisions this racer made in this video.
 
gh3
Yep but he has no much other option than disappear, isn't it?
But how you can judge that crash better? An AI trained approach would probably help, but it is CPU consuming. An switch/if/else downfall will lead on those kind of extreme "punishment" but in realtime.

Got a question: would be more open in having delayed punishment (e.g. within 5/20 seconds from the fact) but better analysed or realtime but more raw?
Click to expand...

I am not saying he could do much about this,even though he could avoid one of those situations.Either hit the guy in front or "brake hard" and get hit from behind.He seems to actually do both.
The "fun" fact is that either of those 3 cars were the "cause" of all these but it was the 4rth guy that started it (trying to "pass" the Porsche in the first place).
Either way,I personally keep my distance when I see people in front racing like that and just wait for them to take each other out.
BTW I wrote that imo SR is not working as it should and many times we get penalties for actually not doing anything wrong.
 
Sean Renon


Here is a good example of the games broken SR system.

The coding views me as going slower than required, or not taking the right line, or blocking the guy in 4th or maybe even it thinks I purposely brake checked him.

However, the code has no way of recognizing that I was hit attempting to slow down and avoid an accident I wasn't a part of, and that the lambo driver in front of me should've been on the brakes as well, not trying to fly through a clear accident at full throttle.

I end up being given a 10 sec penalty, and finishing in 9th after starting in third.

The most annoying thing is us in the top 3 all qualified with similar times, and 4th had already fallen back about a full second, so if I get through clean without being rammed I likely have the pace to hold first.
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Fast qualy times don't mean a fast, or good racer. Those times could've been set in 1 of 20 awful laps. Race pace/lapping pace consistancy is what gets you podiums.

If your trying to set qualy time every lap in a race..... Then that's half your problem right there. Drive to what is happening around you.
 

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