Question for manual drivers...

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skip0110
It would be harder to turn the axles in 1st, because for every rotation you need to turn the engine over several times.
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edit: i edited this comment to oblivion... no longer valid
 
daan
Over time the handbrake cable will loosen and it will become less effective. When I park, I always leave it in gear with the handbrake off. There is no danger of it running away down the hill, which there is if its only held by the handbrake. The only time I use the handbrake is when I'm sitting at traffic lights, waiting on them to change.
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why do you guys do that over there, anyway?
I'm sure by now it's probly out of teaching, followed by habit, but any idea what started it?
I knew a girl from England that did it, (poorly though), and bogged the crap out of the clutch, and seemed surprised that I didn't.
Do you guys pull that close behind each other? or are the cars there that much harder to pull out without rolling backwards?

anyway, reverse is what I'm told the strongest gear is, so when I'm on a hill, reverse it is. otherwise, neutral and handbrake.
if I leave it in gear, there's a 10% chance I'll forget and let the clutch fly when I start it the next time, so that's why I choose neutral
 
Reverse is usually the best because it's usually a lower gear than first. At least I think it is... can't say I've ever heard of a car where that wasn't the case, but then I don't pay much attention to the reverse gear ratios :) First is fine anyway.

As far as low gears vs. high, the lower gears will definitely provide you with more braking. Like inferno said, think about how you get more engine braking in first than fifth, if you don't want to work out the physics of it. Engine braking works the same whether you are stopped or moving.
 
I see the logic of what you're saying. I was taught way back when to park the car in the highest gear, but it seems you are right, that the mechanical advantage is reversed. Dunno why I never really thought about it before.
 
Well, you learn something new every day Duke. I always heard leave it in 1st or reverse, and my dad backed this up with the similar physics above. I use Reverse or 1st depending on how my car is on the hill. If its pointed up, I put it in first, and vice versus. Though I guess it really makes no sense, as the engine could possibly spin backwards.

I always do the hand brake and put the car in gear. I used to leave it in neutral with the e-brake, but now I don't. Reason being I once leaned across my car to grab something, after turning it off and parking it, and hit the button the e-brake, releasing it. The result was I rolled in a pole. I was rather embarrassing and pathetic, to say the least.

Now, I do pull the brake first, let the car roll back onto it, then let the clutch out. This way the stress is on the brakes, not the transmission and engine. Leaving it in gear is more of a back up.
 
For the less technical of us (me), could you put that into as close to leymans terms as possible? That's how the mechanical force is reversed ect, because all I'm seeing still is the two cogs. What am I missing?
 
Confusing as hell! I was just about ready to switch to parking in the 5th gear, before I read the third to last post.

I also live in the area where there aren't much freezing or hills, so I often just use the parking brake. Sometimes, I do leave it in 1st or reverse.
 
In order for the wheels to continue to move, the only force exerted on them is gravity and they must overcome resistance from the engine. If the gearbox is in a low gear then the wheels drive a small gear, which drives a large gear (the engine) = lots of mechnical resistance (which is the opposite of when the engine [large gear] drives a small gear when in a low gear = lots of acceleration. In a higher gear then the wheels drive a large gear which drives another large gear, which is less mechanical resistance so should, in theory, move more easily.

Though in all honesty I doubt it'd matter much at all - it'd be better to turn your wheels at an angle to deny the car any long-distance roll.
 
Yeah, the car isn't going anywhere if it's got a tire against the curb.
 
I always leave it in first with the hand brake on, and if there is a near by curb, towards it in whatever direction the car would roll if the everything should fail.

Before, I would just leave it in neutral with the hand brake on until one night I watched a car make this loud pop sound and then roll down the hill it was parked on. Luckily there was no cars behind it, and a parking lot at the bottom of the hill, so no one or thing was hurt but that doesn't mean there won't be the next time. :scared:
 
In order for the wheels to continue to move, the only force exerted on them is gravity and they must overcome resistance from the engine. If the gearbox is in a low gear then the wheels drive a small gear, which drives a large gear (the engine) = lots of mechnical resistance (which is the opposite of when the engine [large gear] drives a small gear when in a low gear = lots of acceleration. In a higher gear then the wheels drive a large gear which drives another large gear, which is less mechanical resistance so should, in theory, move more easily.
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whoa. thats a bit confusing, and a little off the mark. when the car is in a low gear, the engine related gear acts as the pinion, driving the larger, final drive related gear. thus resulting in higher torque output. this same torque is directly translated inversely. if i was to push the car in first gear (yeah right) i would benefit that same torque advantage.

in a high gear, the torque is unavailable, thus requiring much more force to move.

the fact that the gear ratio stays the same no matter what direction the power runs through the system overcomes engine resistance
 
Famine
… and the car in a gear contrary to the direction of slope (if the car's pointing downhill it's in reverse, if it's pointing uphill it's in 5th)
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Are you sure about that? Here’s what Wikibooks has to say:
For extra security, especially when parking on hills, the transmission may be placed into first or reverse gear after the parking brake is engaged. It doesn't matter which one, although if the driver knows which of the two has a lower gear ratio, that one should be preferred, since it is in the lowest gear ratio that the engine will provide the most resistance to the movement of the car.

Some drivers follow a bizarre custom of parking in the gear opposite to the direction that the car would roll: reverse if facing downhill, and first gear when facing uphill. This does not provide any additional safety, since the engine will turn in either direction. The lowest gear provides the best resistance, regardless of the orientation of the car with respect to the slope. If anything, the opposite selection should be followed: using the gear which corresponds to the direction in which the vehicle would roll. This will rotate the engine's crankshaft, camshaft and attached components in the designed direction. -- There may be exceptions; for instance, the 2007 Honda Civic Coupe Owner's Manual specifically recommends parking in the gear opposite to the rolling direction.
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I’m not necessarily saying that it’s right, but I’d just like clarification either way.
 
this is getting far too confusing. im not sure i can stand behind anything i have said so far. thoguh i do believe the ratio has an important role as well as engine resistance
 
Wikibooks is right, it's best to use whatever the lowest gear ratio is, which is usually reverse. It doesn't matter which way the car is facing, it'll work either way. Doesn't really matter either way though, first and reverse will work about the same anyway.

I'd post a drawing of some gears to try to help show why lower gears are better, but I don't have any webhosting at the moment :)
 
This is a pet peeve of mine. I routinely watch people get out of their cars with automatics and watch as the car rocks back and forth on the gear. The parking brake should always be used while parking. Always. Don't rely on your transmission to keep you parked and don't let the car rock back and forth on the gears.

At the same time, you shouldn't trust your parking brake to hold the car either.

To sum up this thread. Put the car in gear and engage the parking brake every time you park.
 
Many years ago, I had a 1982 Nissan Sentra, w/a 5-spd. After once leaving the car in neutral, sans parking brake, and having it roll off, I took the trouble to read the owner's manual.
It stated that the transmission should be placed in Reverse, and the parking brake applied.
In the manual for my Ranger, it states that the car should be left in First or Second, with parking brake applied.

As for cars with Automatic transmissions. You should park with the car in Park, (as in this country, you can't get the key out if the car isn't in Park.
You should also set the parking brake before you take your foot off of the regular brake. If you are parked on an incline, the weight of the car will bear on the the Park gear, if you don't. This will make it very difficult to get the car out of park the next time your drive it. As well, that can't be good for the transmission.
So, if you have it, the best advice I can give is to RTFM! It will usually have something about that in it.
Let me add that if the car is parked next to a curb on an incline, angle the front wheels so the car will roll into the curb and stop if both systems should fail.
 
yeah i think both in gear and parking brake the best way to look at it, except during extended periods of snow where the parking brake could freeze, other than that i think theres no reason not to use both, heck i put the parking brake on by habit in every car i park, even if its going to annoy the next person that drives it. as far as leaking compression goes, thats a real possibility on many older cars. anyone ive talked to who owns an old mercedes diesel with a manual trans has told me stories of cars that will slowly creep wherever gravity leads them if allowed, however this
isnt nearly as dangerous as the car loosing its parking brake all of a sudden as the car will move only as fast as a small compression leak will allow
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Saab's yet.

They give you no choice in the matter at all. The only way to get the key out of the ignition (which is located in the centre console near the hand brake) is to put the car in reverse (or P for an Auto). Unless you do so the key can not be removed, its a very common query among new Saab owners, as is rear end damage after the park to close to a wall and then forget that they had to leave the car in reverse.

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Regards

Scaff
 
That handbrake looks like a dinosaur coming out of a murky lake.
 
I personaly leave it in 1st or reverse and engadge the parking brake...
 
With my dad's car I leave it in nuetral and pull the handbrake. On hills I park it opposite faceing down and put in in reverse, then pull the handbrake.
 
I just stick her in first and leave. If I'm on a hill of even a slight grade I'll pull my parking brake. I've been in a buddy's car when we experimented with this. We had four people in his Ford ZX2 and parked on a steep hill. We left it in first without the brake adn the car stayed. We all jerked back at the same time and the engine rolled over backwards three times, then barely stopped. That's when I really learned you should put the brake on on steep hills.

Also my clutch is worn badly, so it doesn't grip very well. But my super-tall Honda Civic first gear and high compression will hold the engine in place like super glue. That thing wouldn't turn over when it's stopped if its life depended on it.
 
I'd rather put stress on my $20 brake pads than the $2,000 transmission.

As for the gear selection, I usually just leave it in whatever gear was engaged last. Sometimes it's reverse, sometimes it's 4th :).
 
I always pull the e-brake first then put it in second. I can always tell when my dad drives my car because he uses either 1st or reverse.
 
Now see, my dads been leaving his car in revse for years, and it never messes up the trany. He never puts the parking brake on. unless we park in a parking lot. then only some times dose he do that.

Me I don't like parking brakes. They don't work half the time, and you never know if there fully on or not. So leaving it in gear is the best IMO.
 
NightmareHunter
Me I don't like parking brakes. They don't work half the time, and you never know if there fully on or not. So leaving it in gear is the best IMO.
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I think it's time you got your parking brakes fixed. :p
 
Scaff, I've never seen an ignition keyhole in the center like that.
 
That’s what Saabs are known for. ;)
 
My driveway at home has a fairly steep incline, and I always back my car into it. As such, I always leave my car in 1st, with the handbrake on. When I'm on level ground, I will either leave it in first with the handbrake on, or neutral with the handbrake on.
Just the way I was taught.
 
Reverse and handbrake. Always. Always always.
 
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