question from a circuit racer

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rosckolove

rosckolove

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dayofwar2009
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PSN#2 Roob_OG
i have long thought that researching into some drag tuning setups could help out my launch/straight line performance on circuit races.

i am great at circuit racing and almost always build a car that can get the holeshot and get better top end on the straights (same car)

but whenever i join a drag room i always get destroyed, even when i completely compromise car handling and try the theories posted here. you guys still have secrets beyond my knowledge haha.

my question is, would any of you nice folks mind spending some time with me in a lounge to help me fine tune a car for an upcoming race? i could help you guys out with making a car turn :) lol
 
Having a top tune isn't enough anymore.

There's a lot more to it to even have a chance against the pro drag guys.
 
well, i'm not really interested in being a drag racer, i just wanted some in game help, so i could apply it to a circuit car, possibly
 
rosckolove
well, i'm not really interested in being a drag racer, i just wanted some in game help, so i could apply it to a circuit car, possibly
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Well I think the tune of course would depend on the track your on. What I would do is find the longest straight a way, test the top speed of that straight in the draft then build your tune on that speed. You want your tune to have the acceleration off the line and in the corners also hitting the best speed on the straight. You pretty much know what you have to do but if you need any more help I can explain in further detail:)
 
Using a drag tune for circuit isn't to good of an idea. Drag tunes are just designed to go in a straight line, circuit = complete opposite for the most part. Applying some parts of a drag tune might help in a straight line, but it won't be worth it if it messes up the circuit tune. Like say if it makes the car oversteer too much or something.
 
Street Racer
Using a drag tune for circuit isn't to good of an idea. Drag tunes are just designed to go in a straight line, circuit = complete opposite for the most part. Applying some parts of a drag tune might help in a straight line, but it won't be worth it if it messes up the circuit tune. Like say if it makes the car oversteer too much or something.
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Yeah you can't take any supension tips but you can apply trany tips.
 
Keeping the gears tight as possible while allowing a high enough top speed to keep up...youll want a very long first gear (this will allow tighter gear spacing) and keeping 2nd and 3rd fairly tight, so progressively "fan out" the spacing from 1st to top gear. Have a look at the transmission tuning guide and maybe look at some 3k or tunnel drag base tunes, 1/4 mile trans tunes probably won't cut it for circuit racing as you'll top out too early on a long straight.

The goal is to eliminate shift lag
 
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Street Racer
Ya. And downforce can sometimes be too much.
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True true. It's all about how much common sense you have on the physics of it. Being able to have some drag tuning for transmissions helps as well.
 
Mikeybc
Keeping the gears tight as possible while allowing a high enough top speed to keep up...youll want a very long first gear (this will allow tighter gear spacing) and keeping 2nd and 3rd fairly tight, so progressively "fan out" the spacing from 1st to top gear. Have a look at the transmission tuning guide and maybe look at some 3k or tunnel drag base tunes, 1/4 mile trans tunes probably won't cut it for circuit racing as you'll too out top early on a long straight.

The goal is to eliminate shift lag
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Enough said lol I like it :)
 
Hyperspeed
Enough said lol I like it :)
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Ha ha, thanks, I'm pretty sure the OP already has the circuit suspension and aero down to a tee :). It would be a help to know which car he was working on though to better advise on a good trans setup.
 
Mikeybc
Ha ha, thanks, I'm pretty sure the OP already has the circuit suspension and aero down to a tee :). It would be a help to know which car he was working on though to better advise on a good trans setup.
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Yeah when I race a non drag race I usually tune 1st to 5th tight and if I know I need more for the straight I make 6th longer but not to long cause it might not accelerate.
 
@street racer - i would be pretty dumb for trying to use a drag tune for a circuit race, good thing i just wanted tips to apply to my circuit tune :)

i just found out i'm doing a rolling start (60 mph) so i now have another question.

here is an example so i can better explain my question.

the 458 italia, has 7 gears, at 600pp i have the tranny flipped so i can get an ideal launch in 1st gear (usually people launch in second gear) i basically tuned the trans so all of my shift points on the track are the same, but i am usually down one gear now. i can almost get down the entirety of the nurburgring straight just in sixth gear, basically allowing me to shorten 7th all the way and make it an effective drafting gear.

now my question is this. wouldn't i gain acceleration from using the lower gears with the higher multiplier from the set up above? and, wouldn't i be able to apply this to the RE Amemiya Amemiya AsparaDrink RX7 (SUPER GT) '06 that i will be driving?
essentially i would eliminate a launch gear, and just have 1st gear act like second, giving me better spacing options and allowing a higher top end draft gear?

also. what do you guys think is better, eliminating shift lag with tight gearing, or eliminating the amount of shifts with extended gearing as that loses time too? for example, since i will have a super tall first gear, would it be effective for me to have 6th (i think it has six gears) top out at a normal speed and have very tight gearing, or should i have it extended so i'm not losing time shifting?
^or is it all car specific and there isn't really an anwser?
 
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rosckolove
@street racer - i would be pretty dumb for trying to use a drag tune for a circuit race, good thing i just wanted tips to apply to my circuit tune :)

i just found out i'm doing a rolling start (60 mph) so i now have another question.

here is an example so i can better explain my question.

the 458 italia, has 7 gears, at 600pp i have the tranny flipped so i can get an ideal launch in 1st gear (usually people launch in second gear) i basically tuned the trans so all of my shift points on the track are the same, but i am usually down one gear now. i can almost get down the entirety of the nurburgring straight just in sixth gear, basically allowing me to shorten 7th all the way and make it an effective drafting gear.

now my question is this. wouldn't i gain acceleration from using the lower gears with the higher multiplier from the set up above? and, wouldn't i be able to apply this to the RE Amemiya Amemiya AsparaDrink RX7 (SUPER GT) '06 that i will be driving?
essentially i would eliminate a launch gear, and just have 1st gear act like second, giving me better spacing options and allowing a higher top end draft gear?

also. what do you guys think is better, eliminating shift lag with tight gearing, or eliminating the amount of shifts with extended gearing as that loses time too? for example, since i will have a super tall first gear, would it be effective for me to have 6th (i think it has six gears) top out at a normal speed and have very tight gearing, or should i have it extended so i'm not losing time shifting?
^or is it all car specific and there isn't really an anwser?
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Me being a pro dragger myself heres my input. Basically the best gearing settup is to have the final gear at its lowest, stretch your 1st and 2nd gears all the way right( some cars you may need to shorten 2nd a bit), then 3rd-6th or 7th should all line up consistent so there is no gear lag and you get the car in its optimal power band range. Some cars that only have 5 gears though are tricky beacause they have a lot of gear lag because they only have well 5 gears. So for a 5 speed you can have the first 4 all short and then stretch 5th to whatever top speed you want once again be sure to line your gears up appropriately and dont stretch them too much. Remember shortening gears give acceleration and stretching gears give lag and top speed.
 
i'm getting the idea that by cutting out the trans usefulness from 0-50 (rolling start) and strictly focusing on everything past that i could have a pretty good advantage on passing power out of corners and great top end at the same time.
 
rosckolove
i'm getting the idea that by cutting out the trans usefulness from 0-50 (rolling start) and strictly focusing on everything past that i could have a pretty good advantage on passing power out of corners and great top end at the same time.
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Exactly! You pretty much dont need 1st gear if your car is powerfull enough.
 
it will only have 374 hp

but wouldn't i gain from tuning the trans to make first gear effective from 50+ (bog like hell for anything under that) and then either have EXTREMELY tight gearing?

or possibly extend it and have 5th gear end where 6th usually would (or maybe a little less) and have an excellent drafting gear keeping me in the powerband at draft speeds?

edit- also guys thank you for all of the replies, my questions get quite extensive. i apologize.
 
rosckolove
it will only have 374 hp

but wouldn't i gain from tuning the trans to make first gear effective from 50+ (bog like hell for anything under that) and then either have EXTREMELY tight gearing?

or possibly extend it and have 5th gear end where 6th usually would (or maybe a little less) and have an excellent drafting gear keeping me in the powerband at draft speeds?

edit- also guys thank you for all of the replies, my questions get quite extensive. i apologize.
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You would be better off putting 2nd all the way left and even when you go below 50mph just dont go into 1st. You gain more in top end "pull" by having gears 2-6 tight will still maintaining top speed.
 
rosckolove
it will only have 374 hp

but wouldn't i gain from tuning the trans to make first gear effective from 50+ (bog like hell for anything under that) and then either have EXTREMELY tight gearing?

or possibly extend it and have 5th gear end where 6th usually would (or maybe a little less) and have an excellent drafting gear keeping me in the powerband at draft speeds?

edit- also guys thank you for all of the replies, my questions get quite extensive. i apologize.
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Dom00000
You would be better off putting 2nd all the way left and even when you go below 50mph just dont go into 1st. You gain more in top end "pull" by having gears 2-6 tight will still maintaining top speed.
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What track? And how much time will be spend drafting on a long straight ?, on a fairly tight circuit I'd go with what Dom said and keep the trans on the tight side, accelerating out of a corner down a short stretch with no shift lag may be the difference of a full car length vs the guy with a a bit of shift lag.

Even running just 1/4 mile just 2 laggy shifts can put you well over a car length behind
 
Great information guys. I didn't even think about the rolling start. I will try tuning a couple of cars for Daytona with that tuning concept.:) I'll give some feed back.
 
rosckolove
it will only have 374 hp

but wouldn't i gain from tuning the trans to make first gear effective from 50+ (bog like hell for anything under that) and then either have EXTREMELY tight gearing?

or possibly extend it and have 5th gear end where 6th usually would (or maybe a little less) and have an excellent drafting gear keeping me in the powerband at draft speeds?

edit- also guys thank you for all of the replies, my questions get quite extensive. i apologize.
Click to expand...

If you only use the car for rolling starts, and don't need to pit for long races, it would be fine to keep 1st long for the extra acceleration, but you also risk bogging on hairpins anytime you drop under 45mph. If you also run any aids, like srf, you will bog more. It would be practical to set up gearing at the bottom to mid powerband on 2nd for the rolling start, since you will be able to out-accelerate from the pit or tight corners and keep power for the rolling start.

With a low horsepower car like you said, it's even more important to get the gearing right. If it's a high speed track like Daytona or Indy, you'll want a higher drafting gear for the straights. Do a few test laps on the track, see what you get for a top speed on your own, then set up the transmission top speed in the corner 30mph or more above that to compensate for drafting. If it's a small track and drafting isn't feasible, drop the top speed to 15 above what you hit on the track. Then, once your 5th & 6th(or7th) are dialed in, work on the launch and gearing between to maximize acceleration. Circuit racing has a lot more variables to tune for, so try a few different setups for the track and see which works best.
 
it will be at the nurb. it hardly has enough power to accelerate into the 160 range so i'll just keep 1st gear for low speeds incase of a spinout or something. stupid wankel engine
 
Hey rosckolove just wonderig what car is it your tuning and you said at the nurburgring? If I have the car I can set a tranny for you and give you the settings.
 

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