Questioning Religion

[Ten]

Thank you all for your answers. Whereas Anderton is right, nothing in me has changed, I believe I have a far better understanding now. I appreciate that, I really do.

As I told Pako in a PM, I don't believe that what you put your faith in has any impact on the value of it. Faith is faith - it all gives you the same thing in the end: hope.

I may not be a man of God, but I think that anyone who chooses to follow his teachings in their own way can learn a lot from the christian faith. I don't believe that if you kill and make peace with the Lord, you will go to heaven, but I believe that those who follow His word will not kill at all, and instead lead a life of compassion and respect all life as it is.

A person's personal and private choices do not dictate their worth, I think, so long as they don't hurt anyone in doing so. As has been said here already following my last post, God will accept you as you are. If you find room or cause for change in that, then may that be your decision. Don't do it for your Lord, he loves you as you are.

Please, everyone - regardless of faith, lifestyle, or creed - love one another and realize that even though you may or may not pray to the same God, you are all alike in that there is that faith within you somewhere; a faith in something - and that's where you find hope.

All this from someone who doesn't even follow the faith anymore. ^^;

Be good to eachother, as in the end, we all bleed the same. Peace and Love, Ten.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Anderton, this may seem to be the case.
However, I've paid some attention to you since you got to the Planet. I've noticed that when you are passionate about a subject, whether for or against, you seem to answer with a lot of passion, but not a lot of thought or research.
Before, you get mad, realize that a lot of people do the very same thing.
Some do it purposefully in order to incite strife.
I believe that you are not among that group. I believe that most of what you believe, you do indeed believe passionately. That is a good, though sometimes hard to harness, quality.
Open your mind, take your time and chew on some of this stuff for a while. Swallow what you can agree with. Spit out (discreetly) what you can't.

The two things in this world you can't bring up with out raising some hackles are politics and religion.
But I believe that these conversations, and these numerous threads related to religion give us a chance to really delve into it. A lot of this stuff might be uncomfortable to talk about in a face to face arena. But here, because we're not face to face, and looking into each others eyes, it makes it somewhat harder to take each other's true meaning, but easier to say what's really on our minds, and that is entirely too valuable to just shut off with a change in the AUP.

No no no! I'm not mad at any member in this forum, simply getting tired at watching the same argument keep recycling itself.

Do you remember how last year in about August or September there were a few pretty angry threads in the Opinions forum regarding the US and President Bush? Well, shortly after those threads dies their slow and agonizing deaths, any time anyone mentioned George W. Bush in another thread everyone else told him to shut the hell up, we've had enough of that discussion. Same thing applies here, though whereas before I was the one re-hashing the arguments, now I am the one getting fed up of them.

I suppose I could just not enter the thread anymore, but I am actually very interested in the subject matter, that is, QUESTIONING YOUR RELIGION / FAITH. But just as most political discussions deteriorate into an American vs. anti-American debate, so too does every religious discussion deteriorate into a believers vs. non-believers discussion. As well, the subject of this thread is getting more and more lost with each post that is put up. You can't prevent having members who will try to convert / convince those that do not agree with him to his side. It's inevitable (in Agent Smith voice of course...don't forget the old Anderton!). Anyway, that's why I was suggesting there be harsher restrictions on this kind of thread, because it's frustrating to read when you have to sift through all this bull-kaka to get to something you can actually use.

 

[PS]

We're still questioning our faith, or lack thereof. By determining what we should and shouldn't believe, and whether or not something powerfull exists at all, we are question our faith. Your faith may be in God, or Science, but in this thread we're still questioning it.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Since it evoked such a, shall we say, EXSPLOSIVE reaction, if I may,and I'm not being too "EVASIVE",(ha ha) I wish to elaborate on a comment by XVII concerning intellectual pride and arrogance". I fully realize the perilous risk I am taking with this exercise and agree to hold GTPLANET, harmless for any damages as a result there of.
I believe what he was trying to convey was that too much reliance on intellect can be a stumbling block to salvation. Paul stated specifically that it was to the Greeks(or Gentiles)
The Bible also states : Knowledge puffs up. Also If any man think himself wise in the world let him become a fool that he may be wise. The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men. God is not impressed with your intellect . He made both you and it. And why should he be. Are you impressed with the intellect of an ant. Of course not, you are dimensionally vastly superior. Ultimately you will have to decide who's smarter? You or God. Like I said in a previous post.
"Them's pretty steep odds."

 

[Famine]

I believe what he was trying to convey was that too much reliance on intellect can be a stumbling block to salvation.

Or "Don't think for yourself, or you may end up questioning the rules of our cult."

Ultimately you will have to decide who's smarter? You or God.

Who's smarter? Me or God?

Well, God has yet to write any papers in the field of cancer research - or in fact anything at all about the world of molecular biology, despite having had a book out for just under 2000 years. And, given that he doesn't exist, I think overall I'd have to go with me.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

The two things in this world you can't bring up with out raising some hackles are politics and religion.
But I believe that these conversations, and these numerous threads related to religion give us a chance to really delve into it. A lot of this stuff might be uncomfortable to talk about in a face to face arena. But here, because we're not face to face, and looking into each others eyes, it makes it somewhat harder to take each other's true meaning, but easier to say what's really on our minds, and that is entirely too valuable to just shut off with a change in the AUP.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. Hey, I know I come on little strong. I admit it. But I think
I'm one of a very few on here that know what I beleive and why I beleive it.
Most of the rest aren't use to that and have a problem with it.

 

[Duke]

I know exactly what I believe, and exactly why I believe it. Otherwise I wouldn't even think about believing it.

Anybody who does differently is selling themselves very short - but it requires self honesty in large amounts, which many people don't seem to manage.

 

[Ten]

I think
I'm one of a very few on here that know what I beleive and why I beleive it.

As do I. However, the difference here is that I can accept what you believe and why you believe it. You don't return the favor.

I'd have liked to carry on in this thread discussing religious differences, not converting where applicable. You've made that impossible.

 

[PS]

*snip*

The Bible also states : Knowledge puffs up. Also If any man think himself wise in the world let him become a fool that he may be wise. The foolishness of God is wiser than the wisdom of men. God is not impressed with your intellect . He made both you and it. And why should he be. Are you impressed with the intellect of an ant. Of course not, you are dimensionally vastly superior. Ultimately you will have to decide who's smarter? You or God. Like I said in a previous post.
"Them's pretty steep odds."

"Also If any man think himself wise in the world let him ..."

...be arrogant.

How do you know God isn't impressed with our intellect? It's arrogant to think anyone is smarter than anyone else, and an ant (a being that is not even of the same species) could be leagues smarter than us. Heck, ants never backstab, lie, or cheat, yet we do it on a regular basis. Who's smarter now? Now us or God...well, seeing as God created an animal which can destroy itself, others, and the entire planet in under 200 years...I'm going to have to say God. We don't know any better. We'd like to think we do, but really, we don't. So really, it's Gods' fault.

As Famine pointed out, God hasn't really done anything special except - supposedly - create mankind and all around it, and then went and what...hung out in the champaign room for 20,000 years?

If god is so much smarter, howcome he didn't just wipe us out like the dinosaurs? Because, surely, we are much more immoral than the dinosaurs. Not to mention the fact we've done 99.99% more damage to pretty much everything than the dinosaurs. So why did god wipe out the dino's? 'Cause they wouldn't worship his pompous ass?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

"Also If any man think himself wise in the world let him ..."

...be arrogant.

How do you know God isn't impressed with our intellect?



If god is so much smarter, howcome he didn't just wipe us out like the dinosaurs? So why did god wipe out the dino's?

Why should he be?
He almost did. Genesis 6:6 And the Lord regretted that he had made man on earth, and was grieved at heart. So the Lord said, I will destroy, blot out and
wipe away mankind from the face of the earth. Not only man but the beasts, and
the creeping things and the birds of the air. For it grieves me and makes me regretful that I have made them.
I dunno, maybe the Dinos got caught up in the second part of that.
BTW if you will notice God has Feelings just like us. Where do you think you got
them from ?

 

[PS]

Why should he be?
He almost did. Genesis 6:6 And the Lord regretted that he had made man on earth, and was grieved at heart. So the Lord said, I will destroy, blot out and
wipe away mankind from the face of the earth. Not only man but the beasts, and
the creeping things and the birds of the air. For it grieves me and makes me regretful that I have made them.
I dunno, maybe the Dinos got caught up in the second part of that.
BTW if you will notice God has Feelings just like us. Where do you think you got
them from ?

My parents taught me, like most other parents, how to love and cherish, and be sad. Why didn't god give evident feelings to other animals? And why didn't god go thru with it and actually destroy the earth? I'll bet if he regreted it then, he sure as hell is regretting it now. Should I keep my eyes peeled for a meteorite any time soon? Or maybe the the horsemen of the apocalypse? I fail to see the point. Who knows, maybe Famine and I were just born as rationally thinking skeptics.

[edit]

Why should he be?

That was...incoherent. Could you explain what "why should he be" is referring to?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I know exactly what I believe, and exactly why I believe it. Otherwise I wouldn't even think about believing it.

Anybody who does differently is selling themselves very short - but it requires self honesty in large amounts, which many people don't seem to manage.

What do you believe?

 

[PS]

That god isn't real, and that rational thought should prevail. That's if I'm interpreting it correct.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

As do I. However, the difference here is that I can accept what you believe and why you believe it. You don't return the favor.

I'd have liked to carry on in this thread discussing religious differences, not converting where applicable. You've made that impossible.

I can't convert you.You have to convert yourself if you get converted.
I'm not sure if acceptance has anything to do with it.
I'f you accept your beliefs and are comfortable with them what difference does it make what anyone else thinks.
Which of these two people genuinely cares about you?
The one that tells you the truth or the one that tells you a lie.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

That god isn't real, and that rational thought should prevail. That's if I'm interpreting it correct.

Are you completely satisfied with that?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

My parents taught me, like most other parents, how to love and cherish, and be sad. Why didn't god give evident feelings to other animals? And why didn't god go thru with it and actually destroy the earth? I'll bet if he regreted it then, he sure as hell is regretting it now. Should I keep my eyes peeled for a meteorite any time soon? Or maybe the the horsemen of the apocalypse? I fail to see the point. Who knows, maybe Famine and I were just born as rationally thinking skeptics.

[edit]



That was...incoherent. Could you explain what "why should he be" is referring to?

Why should he be impressed with our intellect? .

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Or "Don't think for yourself, or you may end up questioning the rules of our cult."

Who's smarter? Me or God?

Well, God has yet to write any papers in the field of cancer research - or in fact anything at all about the world of molecular biology, despite having had a book out for just under 2000 years. And, given that he doesn't exist, I think overall I'd have to go with me.

So do you think God is stupid?
If he doesn't exsist, who wrote the book?

 

[PS]

Are you completely satisfied with that?

Yes, of course. I'm not getting into lethics and logic theory, though.

Why should he be impressed with our intellect? .

He shouldn't. I never implied that god should.

I can't convert you.You have to convert yourself if you get converted.
I'm not sure if acceptance has anything to do with it.
I'f you accept your beliefs and are comfortable with them what difference does it make what anyone else thinks.
Which of these two people genuinely cares about you?
The one that tells you the truth or the one that tells you a lie.

I can't convert you.

Sure can't.

I'm not sure if acceptance has anything to do with it.

Nope. It has to do with the fact that certain members of your religion were constantly harping at him for what he's done, the fact he's gay, and the fact that noone has directly answered any of his questions. That's just rude.

I'f you accept your beliefs and are comfortable with them what difference does it make what anyone else thinks.

Obviously some, as he sure seems to have problems with (from what I've heard) people always trying to change his ways on and off campus.

Which of these two people genuinely cares about you?
The one that tells you the truth or the one that tells you a lie.

There are some things man just isn't supposed to know, like what happens to a female every 28 days.

[edit]Quadruple posting is frowned upon, here at GTP. There's an edit button for when you get a new idea.

So do you think god is stupid?

Yup. He created a race of the most destructive creatures ever conceived of, and even expects them to worship him, or else you go to hell. Now thats some damn good blackmail.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

[edit]Quadruple posting is frowned upon, here at GTP. There's an edit button for when you get a new idea.



Yup. He created a race of the most destructive creatures ever conceived of, and even expects them to worship him, or else you go to hell. Now thats some damn good blackmail.[/QUOTE]
It has been implied that I have been evading questions, hence the multi post.
If Adam and Eve are the ones who disobeyed and brought the curse of sin and
death upon all mankind, how is that GOD's fault?

 

[Delirious]

please put it in giant big letters for everyone to see in the midst of the entangled arguments and debates what is it that exactly is preventing you all to believe in God?

 

[PS]

How about lack of evidence? Duh. Give me an example of something many people believe in without evidence (sans Religion).

I've got a thingy here for you. i want your personal and professional opinion on what you think it sounds like (deep, intelligent, hatefull, loving etc)

She's got her eyes open wide
she's got the dirt and spit of the world
she's got her mouth on the metal
the lips of a scared little girl
I've got an angel in the lobby
he's waiting to put me in line
but I won't ask for forgiveness
for my faith has gone dry
She's got her Christian prescriptures
and death has crawled in her ear
like elevator music of songs
that she couldn't hear
1...2...3 it spins around
4...5...6 we all lay down
some do it fast
some do it better in small amounts.

I'll give you another one, and then tell you the artists.

It has been implied that I have been evading questions, hence the multi post.
If Adam and Eve are the ones who disobeyed and brought the curse of sin and
death upon all mankind, how is that GOD's fault?

Everyone is responsible for their own creation. Adam and Eve knew no better, its the nature of human beings to be curious, and god made them that way.

 

[Ten]

The person who cares the most about me is the one who doesn't make me feel like garbage for the way I live.

To claim that someone is telling me lies is pretty bold coming from someone who has no solid proof to back up the ideals he preaches. Faith is not proof. You're making me use science against you, and this was not my intention. I don't want to tell you that your faith is made up, or that it isn't real. But you're backing me into a corner and manipulating me into saying something that will go against you.

I'm not here to prove your faith wrong. I'm here to try and bridge a gap between your faith and the "faithless". We're all people, I don't see how those who believe and those who aren't have to be on different levels in the eyes of God. It hurts that you find me flawed, or a heathen or whatever else you can think up to make me feel bad about how I live my life.

All my life, my mother and my friends have told me that I'm fine how I am. What sets me apart makes me beautiful - what makes me different makes me human. I don't need to change to please anyone, and I damn sure won't change to please you. I'm not asking you to change, I'm asking you to understand.

You're damn right you can't convert me. If being converted means I'll be as intolerant and unwilling to accept the beautiful differences of humanity, then I'm damn happy where I am.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

And why didn't god go thru with it and actually destroy the earth? I'll bet if he regreted it then, he sure as hell is regretting it now.




Because (Genesis 6:8) But Noah found grace(favor) in the eyes of the LORD.

 

[Delirious]

im honestly not sure what to think about those lyrics...marilyn manson? elaborate on those lyrics for me...

God made them with a free will...God didn't make them puppets...they chose to sin, and that sin brought about the downfall of man...God gave them that choice of free will to either obey or disobey God...as a parent with a child...the child has the choice to obey or disobey God

God also gives us a choice to obey or disobey...and there are consequences for each of them

PS...if i give you all the evidence in the world, you will not believe it unless you have faith and repent

http://www.carm.org/
www.christiananswers.net
www.answersingenesis.org

3 sites FILLED with evidence...theres your evidence

http://www.yfiles.com/part2.html good article on if Jesus did what he claimed to have done...chances far exceed anything ive seen

http://contenderministries.org/discrepancies/discrepancies.php site dedicated to supposed bible discrepancies

 

[PS]

And why didn't god go thru with it and actually destroy the earth? I'll bet if he regreted it then, he sure as hell is regretting it now.




Because (Genesis 6:8) But Noah found grace(favor) in the eyes of the LORD.

Obviously I don't read the bible, so you're going to have to make yourself clearer. And yes, I'm aware that noah built an arc to survive the flood and put 2 of every animal on it (M + F = more)...unfortunately that would never work because of 1) inbreeding and 2) it takes a minimum of 7 of each male and female to produce enough genetic variance to succesfully restore a population. And that's if they all mate with each other.

 

[PS]

im honestly not sure what to think about those lyrics...marilyn manson? elaborate on those lyrics for me...

Did you look that up? Because if you did, you weren't supposed to. You automatically have a bias, and have thus ruined my future analogy.

God made them with a free will...God didn't make them puppets...they chose to sin, and that sin brought about the downfall of man...God gave them that choice of free will to either obey or disobey God...as a parent with a child...the child has the choice to obey or disobey God

Yes, but a child doesn't know better. If God truly was the parent, he'd have had patience and realized that mistakes were bound to happen.

God also gives us a choice to obey or disobey...and there are consequences for each of them

Perhaps free choice was granted at too immature an age? (if in fact he does exist)

PS...if i give you all the evidence in the world, you will not believe it unless you have faith and repent

PS as in PublicSecrecy or PS as in postscript?

http://www.carm.org/
www.christiananswers.net
www.answersingenesis.org

3 sites FILLED with evidence...theres your evidence

I asked for something NOT related to religion- yet again, another unfair bias.

I'll give you another chance.

 

[PS]

Cat got your tongue? ...10 minutes later...

 

[Delirious]

i dont think any christian knows why God created adam and eve since God knew adam and eve were going to mess up...God knew they were gonna mess up, perhaps to set an example for us

i didnt understand the lyrics you posted above anyhow (PS meaning you)

you asked for evidence, theres your evidence...

plus i was offline...this forum is really becoming addictive and im trying to cut my time on here

 

[PS]

i dont think any christian knows why God created adam and eve since God knew adam and eve were going to mess up...God knew they were gonna mess up, perhaps to set an example for us

i didnt understand the lyrics you posted above anyhow (PS meaning you)

you asked for evidence, theres your evidence...

plus i was offline...this forum is really becoming addictive and im trying to cut my time on here

i didnt understand the lyrics you posted above anyhow (PS meaning you)

but did you look them up?

you asked for evidence, theres your evidence...

I sifted thru the sites...they just explained in vague definition of what happened, not actually providing proof that they happened.

this forum is really becoming addictive and im trying to cut my time on here

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Delirious]

i looked them up...it's a long habit of me looking up lyrics when people post them

whether or not i looked them up, i just quite frankly didnt really understand the song