Race director needs tweaking (or killing)

  • Thread starter mattikake
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mattikake

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This guy is a right pedantic stingy mofo. He makes Charlie Whiting look like a renegade.

The problem is, not only is he a mofo but it's a bit unpredictable. Sometimes you can run really wide at some circuits - thinking COTA twisties here - and nothing, others it's 2 wheels off/maybe half a car and a penalty. The problem is the transgression doesn't show up immediately, so when exploring his track limits, you're not too sure where you committed the crime or by how much.

The tha Arnold Chicane at Knockhill is a real disappointment. I wonder if the devs have even seen a race here? I was looking forward to flying over the curbs and cutting it, but you're not allowed to get even close to that. :(

Why can't this be reworked so it's simply all 4 wheels over the white lines? That would be so easy to police and for the RD and for players to work out track limits.
 
Matt,
If I may be constructive in some criticism.
You've been on GTP for a week and have started 5 threads of Project Cars issues.
Join in on the existing threads and welcome to :gtpflag:
 
mattikake
This guy is a right pedantic stingy mofo. He makes Charlie Whiting look like a renegade.

The problem is, not only is he a mofo but it's a bit unpredictable. Sometimes you can run really wide at some circuits - thinking COTA twisties here - and nothing, others it's 2 wheels off/maybe half a car and a penalty. The problem is the transgression doesn't show up immediately, so when exploring his track limits, you're not too sure where you committed the crime or by how much.

The tha Arnold Chicane at Knockhill is a real disappointment. I wonder if the devs have even seen a race here? I was looking forward to flying over the curbs and cutting it, but you're not allowed to get even close to that. :(

Why can't this be reworked so it's simply all 4 wheels over the white lines? That would be so easy to police and for the RD and for players to work out track limits.
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Got to disagree with you, its the same for everyone just a case of you revising whats allowed in track memory.

Having a severe race director, racers are going to by default become cleaner online.

Reducing the race directors severity is the wrong way to go.
 
jake2013guy
The rules are half a car over the white lines.
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Half a car. That's hard to judge. Last I knew in motorsport is was the whole car over the white lines.

XXI
Matt,
If I may be constructive in some criticism.
You've been on GTP for a week and have started 5 threads of Project Cars issues.
Join in on the existing threads and welcome to :gtpflag:
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Ok. Sorry. Seemed like a relevant thread to start discussion rather than it buried amongst the bugs. I wouldn't call it a bug either. Just something that could do with being more in-line with motor racing standards.
 
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mattikake
Last I knew in motorsport is was the whole car over the white lines.
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Really?

Where white lines are concerned its always been two wheels inside of. Somebody correct me if Im wrong.

Add a kerb though and then its slightly different.
 
rono_thomas
Really?

Where white lines are concerned its always been two wheels inside of. Somebody correct me if Im wrong.
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Generally, yes, but depending on the series there's a lot of leeway. F1 will crack their knuckles for going wide in one corner but on another corner let them run wide all day. NASCAR lets them get their entire car as far over the white line as they want. Most series seem to allow them to get four over the line pretty often as long as it's not blatantly abusive or gained them a position. In sim racing the general rule is two wheels inside the white line.
 
BrandonW77
Generally, yes, but depending on the series there's a lot of leeway. F1 will crack their knuckles for going wide in one corner but on another corner let them run wide all day. NASCAR lets them get their entire car as far over the white line as they want. Most series seem to allow them to get four over the line pretty often as long as it's not blatantly abusive or gained them a position. In sim racing the general rule is two wheels inside the white line.
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Better explanation.

Im pretty sure the race director has this built in. The first couple of days I was having lap times deleted regularly, but now it seems to be slow down to avoid a penalty.
 
The general rule in motor racing is you need to keep 2 wheels on the racetrack at all times. Some series, or some tracks, exceptions are made.

For NASCAR, at Watkins Glen, there are no track limits in T1. They can run as wide as they want. For Aussie Supercars, watch a race at Adelaide, and see how the cars launch completely over the curb into what should technically be the runoff area leading onto the back straight.

Overall the director seems a little bit on the stingy side, but not too bad. There definitely are some places where it could use tweaking though.

The chicane at Knockhill needs to be opened up a bit, allow drivers to really Monster the curbs like they do in BTCC.

The chicane at Nurb GP needs to be tightened up a bit, you can take an insane amount of curb, all 4 wheels off, at both apexes.

The main thing that needs adjusting though is how making a mistake in the final sector cancels out next lap. Take Leguna Seca for example.

In the final corner, if you run wide on the exit, then yes, the next lap should be invalid, as you used the runoff area to build momentum for the next lap. However, on this same track, if you go off anywhere after the corkscrew, your next lap is invalid. If you go off through T9 or T10, it cancels the next lap, even though your speed through T9@10 has no bearing on the next lap.

There's some other tracks like this too...Oultan park I think comes to mind. Go off anywhere in the last sector, next lap is invalid. Same with COTA. Go off on the exit of the long right hander, 2 corners and 2 braking zones from the finish, and your next lap is still invalid.
 
mattikake
Half a car. That's hard to judge. Last I knew in motorsport is was the whole car over the white lines.
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Half a car in game. It varies in real series. With the right programmers, it's probably relatively easy to calculate using the car's width and current position.
 
In the UK most series run under the MSA regs and that's actually far harsher than the PC2 Race Director

https://www.msauk.org/assets/tracklimitsguidance-3.pdf

"‘a driver will be judged to have left the track if any wheel of the car either goes beyond the outer edge of any kerb or goes beyond the white line where there is no kerb’"

Which is why in the BTCC you can get away with the chicane at Knockhill, as the curbs are part of the track.
 
jake2013guy
Half a car in game. It varies in real series. With the right programmers, it's probably relatively easy to calculate using the car's width and current position.
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I meant, hard to judge for the player especially if the driving position of offset to one side. Though I suppose the same could be said for all 4 wheels. The RD needs to pipe-up sooner though. There's too much of a delay to know where you did wrong if there is a twisty section. It should also be an audio cue from your race engineer. Read small text in the middle of a race can be a too much of a distraction.

I wasn't aware some regs varied that much. I only watch though, not read regs. Rules are often not that strictly applied it seems.

It would be a nice future addition if a host could choose what regs to apply when setting up a session.
 
jake2013guy
Half a car in game. It varies in real series. With the right programmers, it's probably relatively easy to calculate using the car's width and current position.
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I guess he was talking about the difficulty to judge from the pov of the driver. You know where the four wheels are and you can feel if they're on or off track. Something as random as the center of the car doesn't make any sense from a driver's pov.
 
zzz_pt
I guess he was talking about the difficulty to judge from the pov of the driver. You know where the four wheels are and you can feel if they're on or off track. Something as random as the center of the car doesn't make any sense from a driver's pov.
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I tend to agree. The white lines are definite reference points and IMO it would have made more sense to call it as two wheels inside the white lines at all times. It is what it is however and, as long as it's consistent from track to track and corner to corner, we all have to find a way to deal with it.
 
I agree. Track limits are being imposed beyond reasonable and far too harsher than what would you get in most real racing categories.
 
I am happy at its current state. It is a great addition, especially things like running over the pit exit line. Nice little touches that add to immersion.

As @rono_thomas stated, it's making people more cautious and that can only be a good thing.

One penalty and you know where the limit is for the rest of your races there.

As for hot lapping, you can dedicate a few laps finding the limits and you'll be ready to go.
 
Bealdor
It's a bit more complex than that.
In most corners the kerbs (and sometimes grass-crete) are considered part of the track which means that at least 50% of the car have to stay inside the kerbs, not the white lines.
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I meant in game.
 
Best approach to this is to head to a private test session and deliberately drive into these "grey" areas. It will take a while for this trial and error method but at least you'll know where you can and cannot drive.
 
Johnnypenso
I tend to agree. The white lines are definite reference points and IMO it would have made more sense to call it as two wheels inside the white lines at all times. It is what it is however and, as long as it's consistent from track to track and corner to corner, we all have to find a way to deal with it.
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But what if there's a perfectly usable (and intended to be used) 2 metre wide kerb on the outside of and beyond those white lines at an exit... Then does the kerb become an invalid driving surface? We thought this through long and hard and came to the balance (looking at all racing series) that it's half the car inside the white lines 'unless' there's a kerb on the apex/exit in which case it's half a car or more within the kerb.
 
mattikake
The RD needs to pipe-up sooner though. There's too much of a delay to know where you did wrong if there is a twisty section.
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The reason for the delay is that the race director waits to see if you gained an advantage. They will only penalize or warn you when you gained an advantage by not respecting the track limits. (or that's the idea anyway) This is a great system in my opinion. Once you know the limits of each corner, and you exceed those limits by mistake, you can still fix it yourself by slowing down a little to avoid a penalty.
 
^
IanBell
But what if there's a perfectly usable (and intended to be used) 2 metre wide kerb on the outside of and beyond those white lines at an exit... Then does the kerb become an invalid driving surface? We thought this through long and hard and came to the balance (looking at all racing series) that it's half the car inside the white lines 'unless' there's a kerb on the apex/exit in which case it's half a car or more within the kerb.
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Right ok. Clarity. Good, helps to know these things. Now I can race. :)
 
There is definitely some track limits that need looked at. I understand that making the limits more strict than pcars 1 was something that was needed but 2 wheels on the exit kerb while having the other 2 wheels inside the white line is not a penalty in any motorsport. The chicane at knockhill stands out because it's very inconsistent with its penalties. I have seen myself using plenty of the right hand kerb with no penalty only to go round the next lap and not use as much and get a penalty. The exit of turn 4 on sugo is another that needs sorted. 2 wheels on that kerb breaks track limits yet u can use the kerbs on the chicane directly after it and get no penalty
 

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