Racers and GT4

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fujiwaratofuuuu

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Supposedly, many people, even racers, have hailed the physics in GT4 as the best in any game. I was wondering if any racers could explain how the handling feels in real life compared to the game for the various cars they've driven. I searched, and couldn't find much... I was just curious in the various driving subtleties of each car in real life vs. the game... especialy with the DFP wheel, how real does it feel for all of you racers?
 
well im not an actual "racer" persay but i have driven the 93 prelude vtec and with the DFP wheel it felt almost identical to real life ...i was amazed .

Fujiwara tofu ....? they should have had Taks car in this game for winning the 80's japanese sports cup it should have had the decal and stuff and had a new song with it
 
I've got a quote here from evo magazine:

"The effort clearly paid off, for in a typically exhaustive validation exercise, a test driver with 15 years' experience drove an R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R around the real circuit and GT4's Nordschleife recreation, and acieved lap times (8mins 15sec) that varied by just 1 per cent. He also commented that the GT4 Skyline and circuit were so realistic he could experiment with driving techniques that would be too dangerious to risk in real life."

Look like the phisycs are good then.
 
Gitriko
Fujiwara tofu ....? they should have had Taks car in this game for winning the 80's japanese sports cup it should have had the decal and stuff and had a new song with it
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The AE86 Trueno S.S. is in GT4, it will appear for sale in used car lot 2 once in a while.

No stickers or new songs though.
 
Gitriko
well im not an actual "racer" persay but i have driven the 93 prelude vtec and with the DFP wheel it felt almost identical to real life ...i was amazed .

Fujiwara tofu ....? they should have had Taks car in this game for winning the 80's japanese sports cup it should have had the decal and stuff and had a new song with it
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No crappy tokyopop names plz.... :yuck: :crazy: 👎 :scared: :ouch: :grumpy:

Anyway, I beleive GTP has a video of a bmw in gt4 racing and a bmw in real life racing on the Nurgurbihn*sp lol track.
 
My racing days have mostly consisted of SKUSA Kart Racing, Autocross, Rallycross, and a couple times on a road coarse. I would say that GT4 is by far the closest thing i have had to the real deal. Its obviously not the same rush but its getting there. I usually drive my US spec WRX (real) when i race, except my Kart racing of coarse. I think the thing they got very real is the braking. The cars feels very real under hard braking, very attached to the road.

p.s. I use the DFP
 
The physics that are actually implemented are good, but there is still a great deal that is not implemented. The cars can not be rolled, so the amount of weight transfer modeled must cutoff rather quickly. It's very difficult to spin a car and donuts seem to be almost impossible. So there are other aspects of the physics engine that are not modeled in their entirety. I would expect most of these limitations were design choices to make the game more accessbile to the console crowd.

I do think there are several games on the PC that offer a more complete and convincing physics model. So to say that GT4 is "the best ever" is quite a reach.
 
aws6000
The physics that are actually implemented are good, but there is still a great deal that is not implemented. The cars can not be rolled, so the amount of weight transfer modeled must cutoff rather quickly. It's very difficult to spin a car and donuts seem to be almost impossible. So there are other aspects of the physics engine that are not modeled in their entirety. I would expect most of these limitations were design choices to make the game more accessbile to the console crowd.

I do think there are several games on the PC that offer a more complete and convincing physics model. So to say that GT4 is "the best ever" is quite a reach.
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can you give me an example of a couple of games on pc to check out
 
I haven't played 4 yet but........

I did rally school about a year ago and got to do quite a number of laps in rally prepaired Mk2 Escort's and Impreza's on a small track 20% tarmac and 80% gravel.
I was shocked at how the Escort handled in corners. It felt like most mid sized, sub 500bhp, FRs with softish suspension from GT3 do on tarmac. After I'd finished the game I spent most of my time driving/drifting cars to the above spec around Seattle and Rome. The funny thing is the real stuff felt nothing like the rally side of the game but spot on on tarmac.

The Impreza understeered like **** into corners and long drifts were nearly impossible but the power and grip were astounding. It was literally like being kicked in the back...and this is on gravel. On the second lap I tried to get the car sideways out of a hairpin by slamming the gas a little sooner than I should have. In what felt like a split second I was on the grass on the inside of the turn facing backwards......just as I did the first time I took a 4wd car out at Grand Valley in GT3.:p
 
sideslider
can you give me an example of a couple of games on pc to check out
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There's Grand Prix Legends for one. But that only covers F1 cars from 67. Basicly 400bhp bathtubs on narrow threaded tyres and no wings. I've never driven a car like that in real life but it looks and feels like it should. That said, some F1 driver from that era like Jackie Stewart and Jack Brabham have said otherwise, that the game is in fact tougher/more severe. A very unforgiving game with an impossibly steep learning curve but ultimately rewarding when you get to grips with it.
 
boost654
There's Grand Prix Legends for one. But that only covers F1 cars from 67. Basicly 400bhp bathtubs on narrow threaded tyres and no wings. I've never driven a car like that in real life but it looks and feels like it should. That said, some F1 driver from that era like Jackie Stewart and Jack Brabham have said otherwise, that the game is in fact tougher/more severe. A very unforgiving game with an impossibly steep learning curve but ultimately rewarding when you get to grips with it.
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That is very interesting!

I have tracked my S2000 at Laguna Seca and Thunderhill, done many autocrosses, and frequently indoor gokart. I find the PC racing sims to be harder than real life!

My opinion is that in a game, you lose so much of your sensory inputs (depth perception, g-force, butt dyno) that you need the simulation to be relaxed to give a pleasurable driving experience. The blinking gear selection light in GT4 for example, is a good replacement for our lack of depth perception and fear.

That is why I love Gran Turismo. I value a good "feel" over hardcore realism. Of course, I still enjoy driving on "N" tires in the game. :)
 
aws6000
It's very difficult to spin a car and donuts seem to be almost impossible. So there are other aspects of the physics engine that are not modeled in their entirety.
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ummmm turn of the traction control
and tell me wut u think about the stronger cars..... :dunce:
 
its really kinda hard to tell, since i mostly auto-x...if i got better feel through the wheel and pedals then i could probobly make a better assement
 
The feel of GT4 is amazing, especially with the DFP. I'm NOT a serious racer, but I've participated in a few autocrosses and participated in a two-day HPDE at Infineon Raceway in my NSX....and I've done a couple of sessions in 125cc shifter-karts.

Comparing the real experience with GT4's virtual one (NSX on Infineon), I had no problem using the exact line I had practiced in driving school, braking and accelerating in the same places. GT4 does a great job of giving you indicators (and sound effects) to make up for the lack of real physical sensations (of course, the excellent use of force feedback with the DFP helps too). You just have to learn how to "read" these cues.

I just wish I had a widescreen TV or a three-monitor setup to pick up more of the peripheral view...
 
I have driven my NSX on various courses, including Laguna Seca. But in GT4, I can take more risks. IN real life, I can't.

GT4's Laguna Seca's hill is not as high as it should be though. But really, the '91 NSX compared to my '93 was almost nowhere near being the exact thing.

When I came around the last turn at Laguna Seca, my car turned much sharper at 40Mph than the '91 in GT4. The U-Turn was also nowhere near what I took on in real life. The '91 slowed as it should have, but not as realistic as mine did.
The '91 in GT4 also did hug the inside as it should have like mine around the first bend. It drifted outwards towards the outside and then came in. Mine held the turn at 50Mph more than the '91 did at 60Mph.

Last, the bend after the hill was nowhere near the same feel as mine. I took the turn a bit faster in real life than GT4.

The car's seem to have less traction than the real thing.

I held turns much faster in my car, than I did with a game's.


GT4 is great. but not everything is close as it should be.
 
foolio
My opinion is that in a game, you lose so much of your sensory inputs (depth perception, g-force, butt dyno)
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Thats exactly it. There are things you'll feel when bolted into a car that no amount of visual or aural or indeed force feedback can simulate. That said, the force feedback in Grand Prix Legends is amazing. For an F1 sim its still to be bettered....and it was made in 1998!
 
Thanks to everyone for those examples ...I'll be sure to check them out 👍
 
I'm a motorcycle road racers and have raced at Laguna and Infinion. The layout of the tracks is realy close but the elevation changes are not there yet. They are getting really close but turn one like some one posted earlier at laguna is not as high as in real life nor do you you get the holy crap effect as you go over it as you do in real life. Tune one at infinion also needs to be steeper. The track is very accurate even having the AMA turn 9 if you drive through the cones. Love the game.
 
Background:
Drifter since 98, been into driving for a while now. Ive won a few rally-cross events, rally school tracks. several drifft events. My drift list includes:

silver R33 Tommy Kaira edition (seen in SCC top 100 sport compact issue)
black miata with sr swap (as seen in SCC)
s14, sr, KA, 5spd, auto, etc
S13---same
91 cressida
eg civic
several corollas
Z31
z32
the damn enjuku car (with no ps i might add)
my 180sx
STi
my moms roadmaster wagon
FC turbo
FB
MR2 MKI
Supra MKIII
Supra MKII

and ive driven many more cars then that non-drift.

My feelings on the physics in this game:

The grip physics are phenomenal. The steering weight, the feel, the lift throttle trail, the difference that the tweaks make, all are correct. The biggest issue with the games physics is power-on sliding. Once a car begins to slide there seems to be almost no predictability in controlling it, which is very unlike real life. Also in drift and slide scenarios there are many times when the wheel is release during a turn, and it will work itself back. It many times becomes a release/grab scenario while doing tight turns. This is not the case in GT4, as the wheel does not exhibit these reactions.

I am curious to getting a wheel adapter for the DFP, so i can use a real Momo wheel with the game, and get an idea of the feel. It is possible that the wheel size is causing some of the issues, but we'll see.

BTW ive driven a handful of things so far, I absolutely love the Mines R34...very balanced, nice car. Run with Racing Med-Soft.
 
its amazing how true to life the cars are... after having driven civic si, 350z, numerous 240sx, audi TT 1.8 quatro, and a few others they each seem to have all the quicks and benifits of the actual cars... even the dodge ram handles like my dads truck lol
 
I remember that I read some of the info on the ECCI webpage (the company that makes the wheels and pedals) and they explained that force feedback in games such as GT4 was more of an "arcade" situation and that in general the steering wheels are not actually used to determine road grip - the vibrations from the seats, etc. are more indicative of the grip.

Having never raced before, at racing speeds, how much road feedback does the steering wheel really give you?
 
Grand Prix Legends has a very steep learning curve, but the advice I was given worked wonders. Someone said "Drive about 100 laps at Monza. You'll be fine then." I did, and I was. In the space of a couple of weeks I leapt from the back of the grid to race winner in my weekly online GPL league.
 
hOt6o4bOi
ummmm turn of the traction control
and tell me wut u think about the stronger cars..... :dunce:
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Wow, what a stupid comment. You do know that traction control can do very little when driving a car at it's limit, right? And this goes for any car, from the a base Hyundai to a Renault F1 car. If you think it takes loads of power to spin a car or do donuts, then you're sadly mistaken. Maybe when you get your drivers license you'll better understand the dynamics of traction.
 
the physics do seem very realistic from the game to my car... i drive a 03 wrx and when i raced with the same car on gt4 it seemed very similar, gear ratios speed ect, the only thing is the mods don't really represent the same in game as real life, and racing exhaust package in the game will net you around 15-20 hp on average but in real life with these subarus the same sort of thing will show gains of up to 65-70 hp
 
foolio
That is why I love Gran Turismo. I value a good "feel" over hardcore realism. Of course, I still enjoy driving on "N" tires in the game. :)
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Indeed, a lot of people forget the little bit about "feelings" when they judge games, specially driving sims, games like GT4, even being "hardcore" for a console, want to appeal to the masses (and earn a lot of $).

And its hard to dismiss a driving sim just because a "real pilot" says is not real enough, that would be an interesting opinion for a "realism freak" like me, but it also can be good news for a casual gamer.

Anyway, I am happy if you can make the game easier just activating some aids and letting the beast intact if you want...

If you have a great time, it's a great game!
 
Garage Battle
The grip physics are phenomenal. The steering weight, the feel, the lift throttle trail, the difference that the tweaks make, all are correct. The biggest issue with the games physics is power-on sliding. Once a car begins to slide there seems to be almost no predictability in controlling it, which is very unlike real life. Also in drift and slide scenarios there are many times when the wheel is release during a turn, and it will work itself back. It many times becomes a release/grab scenario while doing tight turns. This is not the case in GT4, as the wheel does not exhibit these reactions.

I am curious to getting a wheel adapter for the DFP, so i can use a real Momo wheel with the game, and get an idea of the feel. It is possible that the wheel size is causing some of the issues, but we'll see.
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I agree with you 100%. 👍

The racing physics are spot on. You can literally take some of what you learn in GT4 and take it to the track. GT series has actually helped me learn the proper racing line on a track.

However the drift physics..well...ummmmm...errrrr.. 👎

I dont' know if its the steering wheel size because thats the first thing I thought. Then I switched it over to 200 mode so I could turn in easier, but it exhibited the same behavior. Actually 200 mode is useless for drift because you can't make the minor adjustments needed to countersteer and correct your line.

My main issues is drift initiation. With my stock S13 (140hp) I can initiate a J-turn drift in second gear simply by turning hard and fast into a corner. In GT4 its impossible, even with the HKS S15 and literally NO rear grip.

I don't doubt you can drift in GT4, in fact I know its possible, however the physics are NO WHERE near the racing physics in the game.:grumpy:
 
Garage Battle
I am curious to getting a wheel adapter for the DFP, so i can use a real Momo wheel with the game, and get an idea of the feel. It is possible that the wheel size is causing some of the issues, but we'll see..
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You are looking for this: the Konami wheel for Enthusia

Go to Enthusia movies page

click on the GC Movie at the left menu and then choose the first video (there's a miata / MX doing cone slalom)

enjoy (video is in a popup, I think is a flash video)

very impressive

I emailed Konami representatives about that wheel, and I got this:

Thank you very much for your mail.

That steering wheel controller is our original one.

But we have not decided to release it yet.

Now it is only for show use.
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