Rags to Riches - Starter Car Reviews/Discussion

[Parnelli Bone]

I've written a small review for the '93 Supra, by the way, even if I'm not sure it's precise: after writing it I checked Gtcarreviews one and I found out that the brakes, which I had judged terrible, had been said to be excellent by Parnelli, and quite the same for the handling.
http://patruck.altervista.org/supra93t.html

Actually, I said the brakes are "strong" during the Pros section, but during the Cons section I said...

4). Good, grabby brakes, but under pressure the rear can get sloppy. Brake controller a great addition here, guys. And any gals out there.

And then during the Handling section I went into some detail about the MA70 in each game. During the GT2 portion I noted the Supra is "considerably easier to drive" when compared to other games. But I also noted some difficulties...

...And here, the MA70 is considerably easier to drive. Yes, it still fishtails, it is still not perfect, but the entire package is much more controllable. Much more accessible. In GT2, the MA70 becomes a logical racing machine with a low price tag, yet a long potential career. It can also be tossed about for fun as a drifter with more success by less experienced folk....



I think it's just the fact that to me, the car is at its most controllable in this game, with a lack of massive understeer (as in GT4) or excessive oversteer. The fact that we can't mod the engine up very far in GT2 is the reason why there isn't as much crazy fishtailing like in GT1 or GT4.

I probably didn't go into as much detail as I would have liked, because (to me) the GT2 version is the least problematical.

It's good to see other people writing! I'm reading all your stuff, Falcoln and Patruck. 👍

On the other hand....

n1nj4ofshr3d '91 Honda Beat
I'm not inclined to use K-cars that often, but I was impressed with this cute little Honda. 7k credits is a lot for any kind of starter, and that is pretty steep. K-cars are not known for bringing loads of money, so you shouldn't spend a lot. I used the little Beat stock, and went to the Lightweight K cup race 1 in Rome, and did really well, with 3rd place. It has really great acceleration, easy handling, but lacks with top speed. It chugs out around 9000rpms, like any Honda, and it shows. I'd say, comparing all K-cars, it gets second place only beat out by the Cappucino. The Honda Beat would be the best K-car buy if the price wasn't so steep

This is really interesting because I remember trashing the Honda Beat!...

...Okay, now here's the deal! The mid-engine layout makes this one absolutely horrible to drive. Seriously, I nicknamed this car 'The Crab' due to its habit of skittering sideways thru corners. This happens during MILD driving, not anything too rough!

I think I did make a note that the Beat is useful during really slow stuff, but can't become a giant-killer like the AZ-1, Cappy, and several other Keis can do.

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

Have we come to a conclusion yet?

 

[jeffgoddin]

I don't think there is any single conclusion, it's up to personal preference. But there are really only a handful of best rags-to-riches starter car options.

One thing for sure, probably the most accessible event which will get you the most money in the shortest amount of time is the 5th 80's event at Tahiti, sell the prize car and you get 135,000Cr for 3 laps of work, or 45,000Cr per lap. About as good really though is the 1st Touring Car Cup event at Red Rock, same prize for 3 laps also but I find the competition there to be somewhat tougher, usually requiring better tires and suspension to win with the same weight to power ratio which will win you 80's-5 Tahiti.

The Trial Mountain Enduro is 30 laps for 400,000cr, or 13,333Cr per lap but it has the lowest tuning and power requirements to win of the endurance events, and is MUCH easier to win than 80's-5 Tahiti. And as Falcon pointed out, the Apricot Hill enduro is winnable at perhaps even slightly less power than 80's-5 Tahiti, and you get 750,000Cr for 50 laps if you win the viper, 575,000Cr if you win the Stratos, or between 15,000Cr and 11,500Cr per lap depending on the prize car you get to sell, but it probably requires the addition of sport tires, taking it out of day one reach.

MR-2 1600G-Ltd.: available day one, slap on turbo1 and you're at 185hp, enough to win quite a few events, but nothing for big money right off the bat except the Trial Mountain enduro. After a couple events and more tuning though and you can easily win 80's-5 Tahiti. With full tuning, you can win the GT-Euro and -Pacific events and up to Convertible-3.

Supra '93: with your 10,000Cr to start with you can get this, add semi-race exhaust or know off some weight and add fly-3 to improve acceleration and you'll be in pretty much the same boat as the MR-2 1600G-Ltd. Full tuning also puts it in reach of the same events as the MR-2.

Supra TwinturboR '91: will be slightly more powerful both at first and fully tuned than the Supra '93. Tough to handle, but important to note that it can win 80's-5 Tahiti on day one after a lot of practice in test laps.

RX-7 GT-X '90: you'll have enough credits left to get sports suspension, always good for taking a second off your lap times. Will also win 80's-5 Tahiti on day one, and a little more easily than the Supra TwinturboR. And with full tuning you should be able to win a couple more events than the Supras.

RX-7 Infini-III: you'll only be able to add fly-3 at first, and so the GT-X will probably be slightly better after you've spent your first 10,000 credits, though the Infini-III can still win 80's-5 Tahiti. With full tuning, Infini-III will slightly better than the GT-X, but probably not enough to win any more events.

Silvia K's 1800cc '88: add turbo-1 and fly-3 and this is the car that can win 80's-5 most easily in its first race. At full tuning, it will have about the same potential as the RX-7's.

Silvia K's 2000cc '91: can only add exhaust-1 and fly-2 at first, which will make you as good as the Infini-III, not as good as the K's 1800cc. Final tuning will leave you only a little better than the 1800cc.

Skyline GTS4: add turbo-1 and you'll have 237hp and 4WD. initial performance is back close to the supras and RX-7's, final tuned potential is back with the supras. May be able to pull off a day one win at 80's-5 Tahiti.

Skyline GTS-t: add computer or drop weight and add fly-3 and you'll be a little better than the GTS4, fully tuned you'll be about as good as the Infini-III.

Prelude 2.2VTEC: add exhaust-1, fly-3, and weight reduction 1 and it will be about as good as the RX-7's to start with, may even win 80's-5 Tahiti. With full tuning though it's only going to get about as good as the MR-2. Still, best FF by far.

Pulsar GTi-R: doesn't show up for me on day one, but if it does for you, slap on the fly-3 and pop in a chip and it should be the best car overall for under 10,000cr total, and able to win the 80's-5 Tahiti event that I prefer for fast cash. Fully tuned it will also be about the best of the pack, but not by enough to win any more events than the Infini-III or K's 2000cc or GTS-t, I'd guess.

So, it seems like PD planned on giving us just enough power to win 80's-5 Tahiti on day one in a variety of ways, take your pick. None of these should be expected to win Touring Car-1 Red Rock on day one, however. Not sure if any of them can win the Apricot Hill enduro on day 1 without the extra investment in sport tires. All of them and many more however can win the Trial Mountain enduro on day 1.

So, take your pick. These are just about all the fastest ways from rags to riches available.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Have we come to a conclusion yet?

Ha ha, no! It's all down to personal ability and preference. I would say for a beginner or amateur driver '90s era Civics and Mirages are best, Preludes and the Dodge Neon maybe, or the Silvia Q's (so far as rear-drives go). For somebody more experienced, there's the MKIII Supra or FC-era RX-7. MR2s. Some Skylines.

But like I've been saying for years, there is no "best" car.

 

[SVX]

Great blog Falcon787b, great writing.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

bump

I enjoy this topic

 

[Falcon787B]

Hey folks, yeah I've done my usual - Parnelli will attest for this, I turn up here, look all lively, then fall off the face of the Gran Turismo earth for six months, then turn up again as if nothing has happened...my bad

I notice I've still got a tonne of tidbits and stuff to post up, so I'll get to it now - thanks so much folks for your contributions, it's been excellent. And if anyone else has starter car rags to riches tales, throw them into the hat - especially those who managed to complete a tonne of the game with their starter car.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Obviously I love this topic, too. I've already looked at it one way, that is, what day 1 cars can get you the most money fastest, but because of Falcon's last post, I'm looking at it another way, what starter cars can get you through most of the game. Here's what I've come up with:

In terms of fully tuned weight to power, one car has by far the most potential, but it isn't available on day 1. You'd have to putter around doing license tests, entering and exiting, until day 30 comes around. Then go get the RX-7 GT-Turbo '83. Fully tuned with race mod it should win everything up to Rome Endurance, and with a ton of skill you might even be able to pull out GT500.

from there the list continues in order:

Mazda 323/Protege 4Door Sedan, but limited by crappy powerband, could win up to GT300 or Tuned Turbo-1, but not Rome Enduro

'84 Skyline RS-X 2000, powerband also not great and has same potential as Protege

*Sunny/Pulsar GTI-R '91 - but not available day 1
RX-7 Infini III '90 - probably last car with any chance to win GT300

- can win up to Grand Valley Enduro:
Silvia K's 2000cc '91
*Supra Twinturbo R '91 - possible to find it for under 10K but doesn't happen on day 1
*Mark II Tourer V - but not available day 1
Skyline GTS-t Type M R32 '91
Silvia K's 1800cc '88
*Celica GT-Four RC '91 - possible to find it for under 10K but doesn't happen on day 1
RX-7 GT-X '90
*200SX Type X '96 - possible to find it for under 10K but doesn't happen on day 1
Supra Turbo '93
*200SX Q's '95 - possible to find it for under 10K but doesn't happen on day 1
*323 GT-R '92 - possible to find it for under 10K but doesn't happen on day 1
*Civic Vti '93 - but not available day 1

- can win up to Open Car Cup 3rd event:
*Celica '83 - but not available day 1
Gkyline GTS4 R32 '91
MX-5 '93
RX-7 Cabriolet '90
Celica GT Four '91

and on down from there. The ultimate difference isn't really that much between most of them, just 1-2 more events you can win.

For me, it's a choice between the Protege and the RS-X 2000 on day one with the ultimate goal being the GT300. The only events left after that are the GT World Series, GT All Stars, GT500, maybe a couple of the Tuned Turbos, and the three hardest Enduros. I chose the RS-X. Also nice it starts with under 195hp so I can enter all those events, too, while most of the cars on the list start with 200hp+ (the Infini III in particular or I might have picked it instead...)

And yes, I'm racing through the game with it, on day 42 with 36 races, 36 wins. Trying not to over-tune as I go so races are somewhat challenging.

Edit: had to check list against reality, and most of the cars aren't actually available for under 10K Credits on day 1, unfortunately. Cougar and Challenger are new cars that cost more than 10K, I included cars that cost up to 12K because there's a chance they'll show up for under 10K...

 

[Falcon787B]

That's an awesome list Jeff, great stuff, glad I fired the imagination somewhat Keep it up man.

Back to starter car testing...randomly came across a Mazda 323 Sedan so decided to test that. Bad mistake. This feels like eating toenails during Chinese water torture. Review up shortly.

 

[jeffgoddin]

Ha ha! Yeah, the 323 Sedan is so slow and handles so poorly it can't even win Sunday Cup Tahiti stock! But it's so cheap you don't have to race it stock. slap on turbo-1 and whatever else you can to start and you should be fine.

 

[Falcon787B]

Now there's an idea...I might do that. Because yeah, you're right, it's pathetic...just won the Sunday Cup with it, and got pwned in the Japanese Cup...by a bloody Alto Works and AZ-1! Man, very embarrassing...I slagged off the CRX, but at least I could win in that thing!

EDIT: The review of this pile of mediocrity is up. Prepare for a massacre! GT2 Starter Car Reviews - 1989 Mazda 323 Sedan

 

[jeffgoddin]

Just read through your blog and caught ninjaofshred's statement that the Celica GT-Four '91 won the GT300 series for him. Either he's that good, or I've got my figures wrong. I had stated that only the Infini III, Sunny/Pulsar '91, Mazda 323 sedan '89, Skyline RS-X '84, and RX-7 '83 could win the GT300 out of the starter cars. Guess I should've done more thorough testing before making that claim...

Also, Falcon's blog is a hoot to read!

 

[Falcon787B]

Haha, hmmm...I might have to test that theory myself! I can believe it though, in stock form that Celica is an awesome car, really great fun and easy to drive.

Hahah Thanks man, I'm glad you're digging it. The geek meeting the girl next door analogy not too near the knuckle?

 

[jeffgoddin]

Well, I'd say it's written for mature audiences, not for everybody, but I was quite impressed with how engaged your writing kept me despite how much there was to digest. Normally I get to like 100 words and drift off in disinterest.

 

[jomama2010]

That's an awesome list Jeff, great stuff, glad I fired the imagination somewhat Keep it up man.

Back to starter car testing...randomly came across a Mazda 323 Sedan so decided to test that. Bad mistake. This feels like eating toenails during Chinese water torture. Review up shortly.

You talking about this nice little car?

If so I am disappointed...I loved starting with the 4WD version.
If not the 4WD 89 (or was it 88) Then the 93 323F

Edit: read the blog...talking FF...assuming its the above...OF COURSE ITS A BAD STARTER CAR!
Lol. Its like saying...Oh I am gonna buy the Toyota Lime Green Starlet 82 as my starter and I will win Red Rock Valley for the Cerbera Speed 12 with it.

 

[Falcon787B]

(shivers) Oh God, that's the one! Aahhh! (breaks out in cold sweat)

There was an 4WD version? I might have to investigate this some more, the 323 badge needs to redeem itself big style in my eyes

Hah, like I said, anybody who thinks this is a decent starter car needs to have their brain taken away by social services. I think I drove it because I fancied giving a car a trashing, and I wondered if it could surprise me at all. It didn't. Like I said, it was even worse than my low expectations thought it would be!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yea, thre was a 4WD version of the Mazda 323. I was about to dispute this until I checked out Pupik's ancient GT2 site. There are actually several versions of this car, as per PD tradition, some are FF and some are 4WD. New and used. PD at its finest with a zillion versions of the "same car". Lol.

There's so many vehicles I never got around to driving in GT2 (who has the time?) this must have been one of them. Or 2 of them. Or 4 of them. :facepalm:

 

[jeffgoddin]

Edit: read the blog...talking FF...assuming its the above...OF COURSE ITS A BAD STARTER CAR!
Lol. Its like saying...Oh I am gonna buy the Toyota Jetliner Silver Starlet 82 as my starter and I will win Red Rock Valley for the Cerbera Speed 12 with it.

Fixed!

There's so many vehicles I never got around to driving in GT2 (who has the time?)

If I live another 20 years, maybe me!

And the 323 models were 3 distinct body types/engines, very different to drive. The '89 Sedan, the 323F wagon/Coupe, and the two 4WD hatchbacks which were supposed to compete with the Sunny '91/Pulsar GTI-R, the GT-X which is lower power and available as a decent starter car, and the GT-R. Neither of the two had the handling you'd want from a 4WD hatch, unfortunately.

And the '89 Sedan is actually a pretty solid starter car if you commit to tuning it fully. Sure, power curve is more of a straight line which peaks at rev limit (and so is mostly unavailable especially driving AT, and feels much less powerful that anything else with a comparable weight to power ratio on paper...) but it has the potential to handle extremely well since it's ultra-light weight once you add Supersofts and Race mod (why this gets a rece mod is beyond me, never would happen in the real world). Another giant-slayer.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I do know one of my "drivers", a French guy named Jacques Strappe (get it?) used a Protege early on in the Sunday Cup. It was his 2nd car and 2nd try at the Sundays, and it must have been the cheapest FF version because it was at the start of his game.

He actually started GT2 in the infamous "jetliner green silver '82 Starlet! Back then, my skills weren't so hot; I remember I couldn't even win the Tahiti race, I was so new to GT2! Those were the days....

 

[BobbyBRAKEaNek]

91 Prelude V-tec. That was my car of choice on GT, GT2, and GT3.

 

[Falcon787B]

I do know one of my "drivers", a French guy named Jacques Strappe (get it?) used a Protege early on in the Sunday Cup. It was his 2nd car and 2nd try at the Sundays, and it must have been the cheapest FF version because it was at the start of his game.

He actually started GT2 in the infamous "jetliner green silver '82 Starlet! Back then, my skills weren't so hot; I remember I couldn't even win the Tahiti race, I was so new to GT2! Those were the days....

Hahah! Yeah, I was like that with the GT Japanese Cup with my Honda CRX...although having gone back and done that race again in the test, I needed all my skills (cough) to even win it now, let alone when I was a ham-fisted 8-year-old! 👎

91 Prelude V-tec. That was my car of choice on GT, GT2, and GT3.

Hell yes! Could you get it in GT3? I remember being smitten with it in GT2, so much so that when I could I'd go and get it in GT4, after using something else as a starter car. I just had to have it, in the same paintjob too

Also, another review is incoming - the 1991 Nissan Sunny (or Pulsar as I believe it's known in the US editions). Amazing little car!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Yeah, I do remember Pulsars do rock.

 

[Falcon787B]

You were right Parnelli, they're awesome little cars

Review now up, right here: 1991 Nissan Sunny (Pulsar) GTI-R Review

Also, forgive me mr jeffgoddin for not replying to your earlier comment, I'll do so now:

Fixed!


If I live another 20 years, maybe me!

And the 323 models were 3 distinct body types/engines, very different to drive. The '89 Sedan, the 323F wagon/Coupe, and the two 4WD hatchbacks which were supposed to compete with the Sunny '91/Pulsar GTI-R, the GT-X which is lower power and available as a decent starter car, and the GT-R. Neither of the two had the handling you'd want from a 4WD hatch, unfortunately.

And the '89 Sedan is actually a pretty solid starter car if you commit to tuning it fully. Sure, power curve is more of a straight line which peaks at rev limit (and so is mostly unavailable especially driving AT, and feels much less powerful that anything else with a comparable weight to power ratio on paper...) but it has the potential to handle extremely well since it's ultra-light weight once you add Supersofts and Race mod (why this gets a rece mod is beyond me, never would happen in the real world). Another giant-slayer.

I'll have to give these other versions a try, for sure! I'm interested to see how they turn out. And to be fair, with my car tests, I do test them completly stock - if you were to stick some race tyres on and uprate the HP, I reckon you could have a giant-killer on your hands, so I don't doubt your claim at all. But I guess my point is with these car tests is that, when you first start a savegame with limited money and opportunities to make money, the car is only gonna hinder your progress, and you will have to plough money into it to get it to go anywhere - money that in many cases you really don't have that early in the game. Definitely a project for further into the game for sure, a rags-to-riches story in it's own right, but for starting, there's excellent cars right out of the box that can be improved even more with only minor mods (91 Toyota Celica GTFour, 91 Nissan Sunny/Pulsar, 91 Honda Prelude (what is it with cars from 1991?!)).