Rally Gran Turismo

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To continue discussing about seperate issues in the next GT well before the game actually comes out, this next topic is about rallying. In addition to a few classic tracks returning in GT4, GT4 introduced more traditional rallying on very narrow roads, not to mention the debut of racing on ice. Also debuting in GT games were tarmac rallies. So you don't have to rally race on anything other than tarmac. Citta di Aria, Costa di Amalfi, George V Paris, and Tsukuba Wet were the Special Condition tarmac races from GT4. As Gran Turismo fans are concerned with consideration to real rallying, some believe that Gran Turismo rallying is primarily a joke. I've played Colin McRae Rally 2, Mobil 1 Rally Challenge, even demos of both Rallisport Challenge games as part of my rally game experience. I've even raced rally in TOCA Race Driver 2. GTPlanet, this thread is about what would make you happier about rally racign in Gran Turismo 4's sequel? Now before you state your claim, don't forget about off-road and on-road racing.

Perhaps one of the best tracks in Gran Turismo 4 was El Capitan. One of the best new tracks was Cathedral Rocks 1 and 2. I know many GT gamers I know missed Pikes Peak from Gran Turismo 2. Kind of funny how GT2 was the debut of rally racing, and featured Pikes Peak (even if it was shortened). As I recall, Pikes Peak is about maybe 12 or so miles going from the ground, into some twisty corners, onto the mountain, into the clouds, and to the Finish line. I think if [the next GT] featured Pikes Peak, I think to make things pretty realistic, the clouds would have to be rendered so that when you go through the clouds up to the peak, it just seems more realistic. Making the run into the clouds more realistic. Point-to-point rallying is very common in rally racing, and is probably more of "real rallying" to some people. I think if PD attempted this, I'd have to imagine one real course, and one fantasy course. I don't know how many different segments should be made. WRC rallies are usually like what? Fifteen, 18, or 22 stages? Maybe 10 each for the next GT. But not sure.

All sorts of issues I've talked about, now what about rally? By the way, I believe the PS1 and PC game "Mobil 1 Rally Challenge" had six stages each for all six rallies in that game (based on British Rallying in 1998). So imagine taking your Lancia Stratos Rally Car for some serious rallying. Then, come up with your ideas for rallying in the next GT, compared to GT4. And as a small "wishlist," I'd like to see more Lancias. GREAT rally race cars.
 
Easy. No more stupid circuits, as rallying happens on point-to-point stages. Also, rallying is done on times, not actually racing against another car at the same time, which is impossible anyway, as the dust from the leading car makes it next to impossible to see were you are going if you are behind. And finally, ditch that bloody 5 second penalty system, which didn't even work properly, as the other car would hit you, and you would still got the penalty.
 
GTs rallying has always sucked in my view, not forgetting GT4 of course. RalliSport Challenge 2 is how rallying should be done I think. Its fantastic trying to position the car right and gain a rythm when bouncing from bump to bump on the road and blasting downhill in a Pikes Peak rally car, then rolling down a cliff :D
 
1- All rally races should be open, with only some trees, rocks, some king of road block and other stuff to trash your car into pieces when you pass flying that hairpin.
2- A championship for point-to-point races and one for circuit races.
3- Be able to blow up the tires, destroy the suspension and other damages that can occur when you take your car to the limits.

In my opinion the best rally simulation today is Richard Burns Rally.
 
They are gonna put in damage in gt5 so i'm expecting better rally physics and stages.
THey will probably soften the physics up a bit or else they will turn off a lot of fans. RBR's the only rallying game thats so realistic its quite easy to total your car on the 1st turn. :)
 
enduro-rally?, was thinking the other day. If they include damage etc this would add quite a bit of depth to the rallies and enduro races, u could have to pit for repairs, get engine wear etc. what do u think?
 
First off, no stupid 5 second penalty. That was the single worst thing about rallying in GT4. Secondly, maybe have variety, include a few p-p hillclimbs and p-p stages as well as circuit rallying (which does exist irl) but make the circuits closer to real life ones. Also Ice racing, hace a few tracks, maybe a circuit with a few layouts and bring back the ice race car and a few more and you have an ice race series. Get rid of the invisible barriers, and have some competitions against the clock, some against other cars ect.
 
I've seen Andros Ice Racing coverage before on the Speed Channel. The racing is pretty nice. More ice racing would be pretty nice if you ask me. To me, the 5-second penalty in rallying is pretty dumb. On tight roads, it's usually pretty tough to overtake. I've made nice passes, even at the expense of hard racing. Then too, PD is going to have to define "rough racing." If just going side-by-side is a penalty, then it's pretty damn dumb, you dig? Then too, rally is about going for the win at any cost. Incidental contact shouldn't result in a penalty. Incidental contact isn't a penalty in gridiron football (NFL, NFL Europe, NCAA Football, etc), so why should it be in Gran Turismo games?

Unless the track is short, I think it would be nice to see three-lap time trials on courses. Perhaps we can have rally racing in which cars are deployed in 10 seconds, 15 seconds, or even 30 seconds depending on track length. Maybe have certain rallies more like those One Lap Magic events, where instead of a 3-2-1 count, it's more of a certain count. If you ask me, rallies should be time trials. I'm not really about point-to-point, but best times should be the determining factors, not position on track.

If Pikes Peak makes a return to the Gran Turismo series, it's a long course I wouldn't mind racing in the next GT. You go from the bottom of Colorado soil all the way up to the top of the mountain. If so, I'd love to race that Toyota Tacoma Pikes Peak truck like Rod Millen (correct driver)? did back in 1999, 2000, and at last year's Goodwood Festival of Speed. GTPlanet, who do you think PD should draw inspiration in designing a challenging point-to-point rally course?
 
If they were to put in the full Pikes Peak course. It would be nice to see the cars power output be affected realisticly as you get higher and higher. Although that may be asking for a bit too much.

About the 5-second penalty. Personally the only problem I see with it is the other cars. Which really, shouldint even be there.
But anyways... Due to that 5 second penalty it makes it near impossible to pass a similar spec'd car. Although I guess if they implement realistic damage the 5 second penalty would no longer be needed. Apparently wall riding isint good for a car in real life. :dunce:
 
I don't mind penalties, particularly on tracks like Citta di Aria and Costa di Amalfi, mostly beacuse they limit cornering speeds far better than I can at times.

I do mind it when the Bad Guys drive into you and you get penalised for it, though. A better collision-detection system would work wonders.

And also, if ice racing continues, maybe a few more tracks? It's a HUGE step up in difficulty from Ice Arena to Chamonix. and maybe some better handling on tarmac with dirt or ice tyres as well - the tarmac sections on Cathedral I and Chamonix have given me more than a few headaches.

As for point-to-point stages, I don't mind the current rallycross formula, and the only way it would probably work would be for a Championship-style system. Maybe a small bonus (like 500 credits) for winning a stage?
 
My wish list-

-Mutli cars fields on rally cross-esque circuits.

-There are tarmac events modeled after RL circuits, why not events modeled from select WRC stages? And those stages should be time trials...ONLY

-Xsara's with 4WD, Loeb's car runs 4WD, so should mine!!!

-More Ice Races!

-Give me my Opel Tigra Ice Racer, please.

-And most importantly, either kill the 5 second penalty or develop it to a fully realised idea, not some half baked joykill. If I can predict it, I can work with it, but as stands, it's GT4's Lucas Electronics (re: Brit cars, not Star Wars), you never know how or when it's going to work.


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if damage is really gonna be in gt5, penalties should be out. I just want more realistic amounts of steering. most modern day rally cars lock at 540° but you have to turn the full 900 degrees to lock. Id like more texture to the roads also. pot holes, cracks in the road, rocks, pebbles, etc.. And WEATHER EFFECTS!!!>

I honestly dont even care if rallying is in gt5. RBR2 is my new hope for the next rally sim.
 
T5-R
GTs rallying has always sucked in my view, not forgetting GT4 of course. RalliSport Challenge 2 is how rallying should be done I think. Its fantastic trying to position the car right and gain a rythm when bouncing from bump to bump on the road and blasting downhill in a Pikes Peak rally car, then rolling down a cliff :D
Click to expand...

Now that would be awesome. ;)
 
I love the Rally levels in GT better than some of the Rally games that exist, just get rid of the damn 5 sec penalties, cos the side to side racing kicks. I've hurled my handset too many times because of a cool pass that becomes a damned 5 sec.........................aagh......5 sec........... time for a calming drink............... goddam 5 sec......I think I'd better lie down!!!
 
Point to point rally would make alot more sense. I personally think the rally in GT is stupid as it's just a dirty circuit track with bumps here and there. Rallying in real life isn't circuit racing, so it shouldn't be in the game.
 
I believe PD should draw inspiration from a classic PS1 game: V-Rally 2: Need For Speed

The concept was very hard... You were kinda tossed into the deep end to either sink or swim. It had various cups, 4 classes of vehicles (with something like 65 cars!) often 6 stages per event (times 84 tracks) and a track editor. You can race against 3 other cars, 1 car in a side-by-side rally, or a classic style TSD (time/speed/distance) variety. The TSD is the most fun because it is a time-trial style to beat 9 other cars in the championchip. Very clever racing. Kickass soundtrack to boot.
 
V-Rally 2 was brilliant, I remember getting that and thinkking SEGA rally what. It wasn't that realistic though but the formula worked and the way it used a variety of rally events and styles could be implemented in to a GT game.
 
I loved all of the classic rally cars... Where else could you drive the Alpine A110, Renault Gordini, Fiat 131 Abarth, or the original Quattro S2?
 
How to sort gt rallying

1) 3 stage rallyies as a compromise between 15 stage or so wrc and the current system.
2) Have 9 rallies possibly Scotland, Wales, Isle Of Man (Part of the tt could be a stage), germany, spain, france, usa, kenya and canada (for snow!!!!!!!!!)
3) Three championships not indipendant rallies (british euro world.
4) Super 1600s as well as wrc cars.
5) No penalties.
6) Service areas to change settings.
7) A co-driver
 
Before posting, allow me to congratulate Sebastien Loeb for his efforts so far this season. I believe he's won five straight rallies. Want to be the next Loeb? You'd surely want the rally racing to be more exciting, especially if you are opposed to rallying.

I have only two pure rally games, Mobil 1 Rally Championship (PS1) and Colin McRae Rally 2 (PC). The way TOCA Race Driver 2 tackled rally was that you had four stages of rally in Spain. TOCA RD2 had a nice method, even though stages weren't like the bigtime rallies. If you raced in TOCA Race Driver 2 and did the Spanish rally stages, the courses seemed pretty consistent and challenging. That system worked pretty well. Some people would probably want more than just four stages, but if I were PD and wanted to step up the rallying, I'd make things no less than 3 stages, and no more than maybe 10 or 15. I can imagine the stages being about 2 minutes long to a max of about 7. I think in "Mobil 1 Rally Challenge," I think I raced a 7-minute long rally stage, with the shortest being about a minute and a half.

You know, last year was the inaugural rally of Japan. Maybe PD can look into Rally Japan all-Japan Rally Championship or something. But if PD decides to embark on ANY WRC event, I'm sure they'd need the FIA's approval. And I'm mentioning Rally Japan because PD is Japanese, so why not a Japanese course? I'm sure that PD will likely come up with some fantasy and real courses. If there were rally events, they would be one of these three types: (1) a real course with actual stages, (2) a real location with fictional stages, or (3) a fictional location with fictional stages. Whatever the case, if PD steps up the rally as such, it would be interesting to see what they'd come up with.
 
To do a WRC event would require the license, they'd more likely do a simlirlar event like they did wit the DTC instead of the DTM in GT3 and GT4.
 
Damage would be nice. I remember the first night I got the game, my friend and I were running a '99 Impreza STI at Grand Canyon, and to see the roadblock thingies, that were in front of the trailers, fly up had us totally freaking out for some reason, hahahaha. It was like, we hit it, an it flew, and we were just like, Oh shnikie!
 
I still believe that there could be some nice off-road tracks and tarmac rallies that can be had in the game. I guess when I think of rallies off-road, I'm thinking of some nice back trails, just away from rivers and streams, I'd even think about desert rallying a la Dakar. Other than Dakar, I beleive I've seen Middle Eastern rally on TV once. That's pretty much desert racing. When I think of tarmac rallies, I'm thinking of twisty, two or one lane roads. I don't know of many places here in Texas with narrow roads. I really think Europe has some nice roads, especially with stuff like the Italian rally, which is a tarmac race. Formerly known as "SCCA Pro Rally," what is it now, Rally America? Anyhow, I've seen some nice stages that the series had ran in the past. There were all sorts of events including the Rim of the World Rally, a rally race in forests, pretty nice stuff.

I liked Costa di Amalfi in terms of tarmac rallies. Citta di Aria is packed in which overtaking (don't want to sound like a NASCAR fan, but), is near impossible on this course. George V Paris is more tight than challenging. But if you really try, the course can be a pretty nice test of your drifting skills. I think PD should try to work on some kind of open circuit. It can be more than 3 legs, but no more than 10 or 15.

One of the most beautiful places I've been in was Kerrville, TX, USA. Kerrville is about an hour northwest of San Antonio. It features beautiful grass-topped hills, with even a few houses on the hills. There are even some dirt trails for bike riders. It is a small town, but a hilly one. From what I've seen, it's the most beautiful city I've been to here in Texas. And I can imagine a nice tarmac rally through those city streets.

I really have no other ideas on rally courses, but I hope I can think of exceptional rally race venues, even if PD made up some.
 
I'd like to see a far more varied selection of rally tracks and no, I realy mean NO 5 second penalites. A rally in Indonesia, Italy, Greece, UK, Australia, Sweden, Finland and more should all be included.
 
Rally Gran Turismo... I figured I'd bring this back to talk about Pikes Peak coverage shown on Speed Channel. Racing classes featured includes Rally America and the Open Wheel cars. One of them was raced by David Donner, had a beautiful open-wheeler that looked like a modified 1980s Indy race car. Other classes shown include the Production classes, the Open Class cars, and one of my favorites- Unlimited. A highly-modified Mitsubishi FTO won in Unlimited, but I still miss the Suzuki Escudo, the Toyota Tacoma Pikes Peak (one of my personal favorites), and all the bigtime machinery.

I kind of wish I had an XBOX or a rigged-out PC, so I can look to RalliSport Challenges 1 and 2 for ideas on the big hill climbers. If Pikes Peak makes a return (I'm not wishing it does, just assuming IF it happens), it will be interesting to see the Race to the Clouds get real interesting. Then too, they'd have to include all 156 corners and 12+ miles of the real course, because we all love stupidly-long courses, right? This is one I wouldn't mind seeing in full length.

GTPlanet, if you have any more rallying suggestions for the next GT, make them known here. And by the way, it was said that Team Falken drifted up the mountain on the tarmac. Had to be pretty cool. Anyhow, reply on.
 
I hope gt5's rallying will be closer to richar burns rally. and i hope it also has superstages for online play. :) You just have to love the awsome tuning option of RBR. the LSD complexity alone is so above anything in gt4.
 
what i dont get is in gt2 there was an opel tigra ice race car and no ice tracks, and now in gt4 there is an ice track and theres no ice cars.
 
Exending on the argument where people want more point to point races and less circuit racing, well they could substitue all the circuit races with the special stages you often get in WRC rallies where you are against another car!! I think these would be alot more enjoyable and there would be no need for the 5 second penalties as u cant bash into the other cars!!! Everyones a winner!!! :)
 

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