Rally Special Events -- big fail thus far, does it get better?

[chuyler1]

At the beginner level, i think I spent more time waiting than actually driving. One of my stages had 1 turn. Seriously? I waited a minute for it to load and a minute for the cars in front of me to leave, to spend 45 seconds on a straight line of dirt?

At the intermediate level, the A.I. drivers are very inconsistent. I used a '99 Peugeot 206 Rally Car straight from the UCD. It was making 300hp with the oil light on and the events were restricted to 345hp. I figured it would be a challenge. The dirt event I went wide and got a penalty. That cost me 4 seconds and i lost that stage. I was unable to make up for it in the other stages and had to repeat the entire event. I won by about 1.5 seconds on the second attempt and my run felt pretty solid. If it weren't for the wait times between stages I would've enjoyed it thoroughly.

Next was the Alaska intermediate event. Same car. Each stage, I was so fast I passed at least 2 of the 3 cars and won by 45+ seconds. Seriously? Should my car from one event be that much faster in another event? The tracks were interesting at least, and I did enjoy racing...but it wasn't much of a challenge. I would've expected the A.I. to be just as competitive on ice as it was on dirt but I guess not.

I didn't have time to complete the final intermediate event. Maybe if i didn't spend 10 minutes in each of the previous events staring at the loading screen and bumper of the car in front of me I would've had time.

I'm also not impressed with the copilot. There were times when he gave me instructions far too late for me to safely brake for a turn. I started ignoring him and just watching the map.

Copilot: 7 Right.......5 Left.........5 Right..2 LEFT
Me: Oh Sh.t! Brace for impact!

Oh, and what does "long" mean, like when he says "2 Right Long"?

 

[GTOne2Three]

Whatever happenedto smokey mountain and Tahiti maze?

It's like GT took 10 steps forward but 5 steps back.

 

[freedomweasel]

Yeah, they aren't great. Waiting at the start forever is a pain, and you sometimes get extremely short, straight layouts. Also the AI is terrible in the snow.

On the other hand, it's pretty fun to just do laps on your own in practice mode.

It's like GT took 10 steps forward but 5 steps back.

Or 2 steps forward and 1 step back.

 

[GraphiteGB]

If you look at the AI. look at the paint work. They're not all Rally Mods, there road cars with a change of tyres. Beginners CAN'T buy rally cars as they are locked out till level 12. you unlock the event at level 10.
GT5 lets you set your own difficultly buy choosing a car. BHP may be limited but other modifications are not, Weight reduction, Transmission top speed, are all open so even casual players can win
In advanced you have to drive 8 stages with out any saves.
3 times to complete and there all random selections so you can't learn what's next.

More rally unlocked at level 16 with no cars on track, fixed times to beat for 1 lap.
and long means out of all the corners they are longer than average corner.

 

[shouldBworkin]

I completed it a while ago I had forgotten how overall bad that event was. I also remember while staging at the start sometimes my car would glitch and end up sliding sideways up to the start line...as though Bob's spirit had found its way into the cockpit for a moment.

 

[Eric.]

Dirt and snow physics are very wrong. Snow especially. I hadn't driven on either in a while and decided to take an Arcade Evo X out to Chamonix. It doesn't even want to slide, and it can launch without much of an issue either. The only real difference is in braking distance and you understeer far earlier. Even in the slow turns I couldn't powerslide the Evo.

 

[freedomweasel]

Dirt and snow physics are very wrong. Snow especially. I hadn't driven on either in a while and decided to take an Arcade Evo X out to Chamonix. It doesn't even want to slide, and it can launch without much of an issue either. The only real difference is in braking distance and you understeer far earlier. Even in the slow turns I couldn't powerslide the Evo.

I'm not saying they're accurate, as my off-road experience is next to nil, but I found the Evo X to be unnaturally stable compared to other cars. Perhaps it's something about the way the AYC is simulated?

 

[chuyler1]

If you look at the AI. look at the paint work. They're not all Rally Mods, there road cars with a change of tyres. Beginners CAN'T buy rally cars as they are locked out till level 12. you unlock the event at level 10.

This is a car enthusiast's game so you can bet most players are going to pick something rally related to drive the rally stages. Its true there was a VW Jetta (aka Bora) in front of me, but I don't know anyone that would show up to a rally event in one of those.

For the beginner events, I used the street version of the Ford RS200 (a level 3 car). It had 250hp stock so I added a few bolt ons. My first few sectors times were very close to the A.I. but once i got the hang of things I stopped worrying about times and just made sure I had a clean run.

The intermediate events I think are open at level 15. I used the Peugeot mentioned above which is only a level 11 car. I wouldn't call that unfair, and considering that I didn't win the first event on dirt after my first try I'd say I picked a car that was a decent challenge. But switching to ice was just a joke and the A.I. had no idea how to drive on it.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

There's definitely something up with snow physics as I can consistently outrun the AI, by a lot, in rally events, one-makes and arcade races. None of those are even slightly competitive, in an Evo or really any kind of car. Don't have a problem powersliding, though -- with a DGFT you can clearly feel when you've turned the fronts past the limit, and then kick the tail out with a tap on the brakes. But your speed advantage over the AI is such that you'll win big even if you slow enough for turns to take them smoothly. Dirt and tarmac rallying are a different story, at least for me.

 

[chuyler1]

Dirt and snow physics are very wrong. Snow especially. I hadn't driven on either in a while and decided to take an Arcade Evo X out to Chamonix. It doesn't even want to slide, and it can launch without much of an issue either. The only real difference is in braking distance and you understeer far earlier. Even in the slow turns I couldn't powerslide the Evo.

It is definitely possible to slide an EVO. I haven't driven the EVO X but my EVO VI was pretty competitive the other night when I was racing online. Try increasing the Yaw control value. It has a very low default setting which only promotes understeer.

Jump to about 3:00 on this video to see some sliding. This was an online race with friends. I had so much fun, it reminded me I hadn't done any of the rally events. This was literally my first attempt at rally racing so there were many mistakes. I should've won but I really messed up the last lap.



Personally, I find the snow physics pretty decent. Keep in mind you are running on special studded tires. Don't try to compare the physics to the donuts you were doing in a parking lot last winter on all season tires. These snow tires can turn glare ice into gravel and will chew through hard packed snow like tarmac. The only issue is that the A.I. drivers simply don't realize how fast they can go.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Personally, I find the snow physics pretty decent. Keep in mind you are running on special studded tires. Don't try to compare the physics to the donuts you were doing in a parking lot last winter on all season tires. These snow tires can turn glare ice into gravel and will chew through hard packed snow like tarmac. The only issue is that the A.I. drivers simply don't realize how fast they can go.

Understood. Snow is very drivable with the special tires, enjoyably so. I just wonder if it's a bit too drivable. I have more trouble on dirt in the game despite having found it a breeze IRL back in the day when I used to spend lots of time on access roads in state and federal forests (and yes, you can IRL get the tail out even in a low-powered FF).

In GT5 you get very clear feedback on snow through the DFGT; the feedback is less clear on dirt, perhaps because it's covered-up in the overall wheelshake. That for me translates into slower times on dirt.

 

[Tyger]

Oh, and what does "long" mean, like when he says "2 Right Long"?

It means it's a long corner, rather than a short one. It's a 2, so fairly tight, but long too. So I guess a 2 or 1 "Long" would almost double back on itself.

 

[Tyger]

It is definitely possible to slide an EVO. I haven't driven the EVO X but my EVO VI was pretty competitive the other night when I was racing online. Try increasing the Yaw control value. It has a very low default setting which only promotes understeer.

Jump to about 3:00 on this video to see some sliding. This was an online race with friends. I had so much fun, it reminded me I hadn't done any of the rally events. This was literally my first attempt at rally racing so there were many mistakes. I should've won but I really messed up the last lap.



Personally, I find the snow physics pretty decent. Keep in mind you are running on special studded tires. Don't try to compare the physics to the donuts you were doing in a parking lot last winter on all season tires. These snow tires can turn glare ice into gravel and will chew through hard packed snow like tarmac. The only issue is that the A.I. drivers simply don't realize how fast they can go.

This highlights a mini gripe of mine, the point was made further up that some cars barely slide on snow and ice, and you are replying by saying if you tune them a certain way, they will. If you tune mostly any car a certain way, it will slide, but the point is these tracks should be pretty damn slippy slidey with the cars as stock.

It's a little like the threads where people say "this car is awesome in the real world but handles like crap in GT" and people counter it by saying if you tweak this and this and this it's awesome...the point is you shouldn't need to, Top Gear don't tune and adjust the settings of all their cars to get the best out of them when the Stig takes them for a lap. They will switch some aids off, sports settings on if the car has that and that's about all.

It also makes me question the accuracy of GT when we can apparently improve the handling of cars that had millions spent on development, from our bedrooms

 

[chuyler1]

Ahh, ok, that makes sense with the turns I was seeing. It was like "3 Right, 2 Left Long" which was a right hand turn leading up to a left hand hairpin.

 

[chuyler1]

This highlights a mini gripe of mine, the point was made further up that some cars barely slide on snow and ice, and you are replying by saying if you tune them a certain way, they will. If you tune mostly any car a certain way, it will slide, but the point is these tracks should be pretty damn slippy slidey with the cars as stock.

It's a little like the threads where people say "this car is awesome in the real world but handles like crap in GT" and people counter it by saying if you tweak this and this and this it's awesome...the point is you shouldn't need to, Top Gear don't tune and adjust the settings of all their cars to get the best out of them when the Stig takes them for a lap. They will switch some aids off, sports settings on if the car has that and that's about all.

It also makes me question the accuracy of GT when we can apparently improve how cars that had millions of pounds of development handle, from our bedrooms

I completely agree with your statement except for one thing. The tuning option I mentioned is available in a stock EVO. Therefore it would be equivalent to the stig switching on a sport setting.

90% of the street cars in this game are tuned from the factory for understeer, making them highly undesirable to drive on the track, especially on dirt or snow. A tweak to the brake balance or factory installed Yaw control to get them to turn in is more than acceptable behavior, especially after you've had your taste of some of the race-ready cars in the game.

Sure, all cars should be "slippery" on the ice...but getting FWD or AWD car to understeer with factory settings is just not easy, nor is it how the car should IRL. People wouldn't be driving Subarus in the Northeast if they oversteered in the snow. No vehicle, short of the rally cars will have a suspension designed for snow from the factory. I think I was running a suspension of +10/+10 in that video and I was still bottoming out on the bumpy straight. The stock EVO suspension was actually catapulting me off the track before I increased the ride height.

 

[Tyger]

Sorry just realised you were the OP saying you were disappointed by the rally events, but also the person saying snow events are ok and the Lancer will slide if you tweak it.

Personally think you are contradicting yourself a little, but not in a bad way, I think your original post made a good point that generally the physics is still wack (I got my PS3 shortly before GT5 and had some fun with the original DIRT, and that gets the physics pretty damn spot on) so you really shouldn't need to adjust cars to make them behave in a way you would expect from the road surface, or at least tweak them to make them grip more, not to make them slide realistically and grip less

Not trolling, i love the game and i think the tarmac physics are awesome, but GT has never *quite* got rallying right. It's the closest its been though.

 

[Tyger]

I completely agree with your statement except for one thing. The tuning option I mentioned is available in a stock EVO. Therefore it would be equivalent to the stig switching on a sport setting.

90% of the street cars in this game are tuned from the factory for understeer, making them highly undesirable to drive on the track, especially on dirt or snow. A tweak to the brake balance or factory installed Yaw control to get them to turn in is more than acceptable behavior, especially after you've had your taste of some of the race-ready cars in the game.

Ah agree with you if those settings are available in the "real world", for sure. I think sometimes though in GT the "adjustability" is more so than in a real life scenario, but I guess there is a little uniformity there between (virtual) models.

 

[ZR1fan]

I just picked up an Impreza rally car 08 brand new off a trade (got lucky with a guy who wanted the shelby Series 1 i got off a 1000 ticket.. heres a tip.. dont sell or get rid of the cars you get on a 1000 ticket you never know when youll need them! I also do not find the rally cars worth their asking price.. id been intending to purchase an impreza rally car but never bothered to set aside the cash.. so this was a plus not having to pay a dime) so i intend to use imprezas on at least the last two events! STI all the way! (= what is the pay like?

 

[chuyler1]

Sorry just realised you were the OP saying you were disappointed by the rally events, but also the person saying snow events are ok and the Lancer will slide if you tweak it.

That's fine. Just to be clear, I'm disappointed in how the events are laid out and how inconsistent the AI drivers are with their times. I am not disappointed with the physics. Quite the opposite actually, I am enjoying it. I've seen better though. "Dirt2" on the PC is far more immersive. I'll get sweaty palms after a 2 minute stage in that game. GT5's force feedback isn't quite as intense.

 

[Akira AC]

This thread,biggest fail thus far in these forums,how can it be possible?

 

[Devedander]

GT5 lets you set your own difficultly buy choosing a car.

Actually that's the definition of NOT letting you choose your difficulty... it's just letting you choose your car.

 

[Tyger]

This post,biggest fail thus far in these forums,how can it be possible?

Corrected. Move along now.

 

[popcorn]

Yeah, they aren't great. Waiting at the start forever is a pain, and you sometimes get extremely short, straight layouts. Also the AI is terrible in the snow.

On the other hand, it's pretty fun to just do laps on your own in practice mode.




Or 2 steps forward and 1 step back.

No, you've both got it wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTHCwU9rUdY

 

[chuyler1]

Well on that note, it is official.

My purpose was to highlight the painful wait times with the rally stages and the ineptitude of the A.I. drivers on snow, which has been sidelined onto an entirely different topic about physics and cheesy pop songs.

 

[popcorn]

I will say though, the snow ones are really easy, the gravel ones are harder and the tarmac ones are the hardest. The loading time really varies though. Sometimes it's quick and sometimes it's slow. Also, "long" means it is a long, sweeping turn.

 

[Gran_Turismo]

Why ask these questions? The fact is that PD didn't finish the game. Heck they didn't even used a large portion of the tracks at hand in the A-Spec events.

So next time you ask "Why didn't they use this or why did they leave this out?" its because PD didn't finished the game.

 

[Camphaus]

Oh, and what does "long" mean, like when he says "2 Right Long"?

It means you have either an extended type 2 turn or several in a row.

 

[Yev]

GT5's rally events (licences & special events) are a joke, gold times are ridiculously easy.
I'm not complaining though.

 

[Tyger]

GT5's rally events (licences & special events) are a joke, gold times are ridiculously easy.
I'm not complaining though.

Tarmac and Gravel courses are easy after a few runs and if you get the right car/set-up, the splits are still messed up though.

The snow stages are plain easy, but look purty.

 

[Tyger]

Why ask these questions? The fact is that PD didn't finish the game. Heck they didn't even used a large portion of the tracks at hand in the A-Spec events.

So next time you ask "Why didn't they use this or why did they leave this out?" its because PD didn't finished the game.

There's a difference between an "unfinished" game and a game that might have benefitted from more development. If it was unfinished, there would be no AI. You are assuming had they spent more time on the AI, it might be better but that doesn't define "unfinished".