Real Guns

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So disappointed in you. Couldn't you have just bought a mountain bike & a AK or something? :lol:

Heh... I needed something with a heater. If I had to do it all over again though I'd get a 2wd. 4WD is so pointless around here... Could have saved some money there and turned that into an AK or something.
 
Unfortunately, I can't offer you any advice on what to buy, but right now, you'd be hard-pressed to find ANYTHING AR related. People are panicking and buying up everything that pertains to AR-15s. If you want to try to get one, head over to a Walmart that sells firearms, as they have been recieving Colts every now and then. Many places have increased their prices, but Walmart has not.
 
Can we please not play the blame game in this thread? I think this probably fit better into the America thread in Opinions Forum.
I am so sorry that bothered you. I can't promise not to go off-topic again, or go on a rant, but I will try my best not to do that again.

As for advice on AR, I'm staying out of that, because I don't know much about them. It's safe to say though, right now is the worst time to be looking for a AR, if not impossible. Not just AR rifles, but even the magazines & ammunition are getting hard to find, which I touched on in my rant post.
Heh... I needed something with a heater. If I had to do it all over again though I'd get a 2wd. 4WD is so pointless around here... Could have saved some money there and turned that into an AK or something.
Before the panic hit, when you could have still found one for a decent price. :D
 
I am so sorry that bothered you. I can't promise not to go off-topic again, or go on a rant, but I will try my best not to do that again.

Thanks, a6, I appreciate it. 👍

As for advice on AR, I'm staying out of that, because I don't know much about them. It's safe to say though, right now is the worst time to be looking for a AR, if not impossible. Not just AR rifles, but even the magazines & ammunition are getting hard to find, which I touched on in my rant post.

Yeah, I know that everywhere is out of ARs right now, and wherever and whoever that still has them has hugely jacked up prices. However, people, me included, are worried about a possible AWB. It sucks to be in this position, but it is what it is.
 
You may not remember, but the reason for my shifting from the bolt-action .308 to the AR-10 was because I feared another potential ban. I'd hate to be in the position like thousands of Americans now, looking for semi-automatic rifles, mags or ammo. It's doubtful the situation will improve, regardless of the news from D.C.

Originally, I was looking at rifles like R700(nobody likes this one :lol: ) & Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. I might get one of those down the line.
 
I'm thinking about getting an AR.

Yeah, I'm worried about a possible AWB, so I'm thinking of getting one before any hits. I've done some reading on them, but with so many manufacturers, models and variations, it's hard to know exactly.

So can you guys school me on ARs? What are some good manufacturers? Who makes ones that are a good bang for the buck? What should I be looking for when purchasing an AR?

No pun intended at all in this post.

You're not alone. With the AWB coming up most of the panic buying has been people who were always "ehhh - maybe" towards the idea of buying a semi-auto rifle feeling as though their decision has been made for them.

I completely sympathize with you. There are lots of manufacturers, each with their own koolaid about how their gun is superior to the others. There's piston, special coatings, and rail-mounted massagers all being marketed as the next big thing. It's definitely confusing. That's why it's nice to have masochistic people like me who actually enjoy the engineering behind this stuff.

Want an AR? Here's the short answer.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920

Colt 6920. Colt makes the M4 for the US Military. The Colt 6920 is the closest thing to an M4 and is made to the same specification minus the auto-sear. This is very important because the mil-spec is the tried and tested formula of making an AR. The mil-spec Technical Data Package contains every material, measurement, and method to make a proper M4. We know that it works, we know what to expect, and we know what to do to improve the thing and so do the manufacturers that make parts, accessories, and ammo for the gun. Buying a design that does not meet these standards is a gamble and there's no way of knowing what's not right with your rifle.

If the Colt seems too expensive for you, there's the Smith and Wesson M&P15, Palmetto State Armory, or Spike's Tactical (if you don't mind the stupid spider logos.)

You should be able to get a Colt 6920 for no more than $1,200. No more than $1,000 for a Spike's, PSA or S&W. The S&W could easily be found for $750 prior to this insanity.

The big question is this: What do you want to do with this rifle and how much are you willing to spend? After you answer that it will be easier to recommend different guns, barrel lengths, gas systems, furniture, etc. For 90% of shooters, a Colt is more than good enough.

Here are some other good manufacturers. They'll cost more than a Colt will, but have their own advantages.

Daniel Defense
Bravo Company Manufacturing
Lewis Machine and Tool

Here are some that I would avoid buying:

Rock River Arms
Bushmaster (a6m5 has a .308 AR, different story)
DPMS
Stag
Olympic Arms
Armalite
Windham Weaponry

The metals are inferior, some designs are wrong, and the methods to build the gun often astound me with their stupidity. CS for most of these places tends to be crap as well.

It often seems like buying one of the many of the lesser brands seem like a good way to save money. That is until the thing breaks 10,000 rounds earlier than a quality gun would have and the manufacturer's CS can't be bothered to help you. If spending extra for a Colt or even Smith and Wesson sounds painful, it's important to note that you're going to be spending much more on ammo to feed the thing than you are on the gun.

For buying your rifle...

The part of the rifle that's recognized as the "firearm" by the government is the lower receiver. This hunk of metal.

prodjanthirty-48-3_2.jpg


This is the part you need to buy or at least pick up from your local gun shop. Anything but that hunk of metal can be shipped to your door.

Often times they are sold as the completed lower receiver assembly as so.

asa-cla-m4.jpg


It is common to buy a lower receiver assembly, then order the upper receiver directly to your door. They can be slapped together in an instant and you have your completed rifle. It can also sometimes save some cash.

Look around for places to buy full guns and lower receiver assemblies.

You picked the worst time to buy. Good luck and I'll be happy to help with any questions. I could go on about this for days. Bring back ideas so we can be sure you're not going to be screwed.
 
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I kind of figured that Bushmaster wasn't one of the better ones out there, or are in the league of Colt, etc., but I am sort of surprised to see Armalite & Windham name in there. Then again, like I told Crash, I know very little, especially in regards to ARs.

As for stocking dealers, I doubt there is any. Situation might improve, but currently, I bet they are mostly on special order basis(probably your best bet), either that, or you have to walk in the store just when they received their stock order. Even then, with the current scare, shops might not even put them out on the rack.
 
Armalite is the best of the not-so-good AR's. The steels they use for the bolt and barrel are inferior.

Windham is a newer company formed by ex-Bushmaster guys. I watched the Military Arms Channel's factory tour. One guy was using pliers on a gas tube, others were using what looked like breaker bars to attach flash hiders, and I didn't see a single torque wrench. A BM AR-15 and a WW AR-15 are the same except the WW uses a better bolt carrier group. Apparently their customer service is pretty good though.

I decided not to get into technical details like how the bolt should be Magnetic Particle Inspected, made of Carpenter 158 steel, and use a black extractor insert. If you buy the right brands you don't have to worry about this.

Also a6, I'm not ragging on your Bushmaster. It's pretty much unrelated to the .223.

Edit: I forgot. Lewis Machine and Tool is also on the good to go list with BCM and DD.
 
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No sweat man. I'd rather learn as much as possible about any potential shortcomings regarding the tool I use. :D

Besides, I got AR-10 for $1179. I was fully aware of the likely compromises at that kind of price point obviously!
 
Out of curiosity, what's the issue with Rock River? I've always heard good things about their AR's and the few I've held felt to be of a higher quality than the guns from Bushmaster/DPMS, Ruger, and even the S&W. Is it just that certain parts aren't technically milspec? Long wait for orders? Or something else?

RRA doesn't stake the gas key onto the bolt carrier. If these back out a bit they can cause a gas leak and render the weapon single shot.

They don't do this:
Gas%20key%20stake%20job.jpg


They also don't stake the receiver extension castle nut, choosing instead to use blue Loctite. If the castle nut is loosened then the gun becomes useless. Using Loctite instead of staking is pretty dumb if you ask me.

IMG_81072.jpg


The chamber is incorrectly identified as 5.56 NATO. It is not. I don't know why they do this. This shows some cost cutting. It's worth noting that my knowledge of that last fact on the 5.56 chamber is a year old or so. They might have changed.

They also make their barrels and bolts out of inferior metal, not terrible, but could be better. The bolt is made of an unknown metal and is not high pressure tested nor magnetic particle tested. The barrel is made from 4140, not 4150 CMV.

The barrel is also a 1/9 twist. There's nothing wrong with that so to speak, but most of the best rounds for 5.56 these days are pretty heavy and designed for 1/7.

RRA also gave the DEA some of their rifles and then went around touting how the DEA uses their rifles. Not an uncommon marketing move, still not to my liking.

The nice thing about RRA is that the user can fix most of the problems. Stake the castle nut and buy a new $115 LMT bolt carrier group and the rifle has improved dramatically. The barrel is still a bit eh but those are also something that can be changed or worn until replacement.

Originally I was willing to pay the extra money for a Sig 516 but nobody had any of those around. I had a chance to get a Colt, but the 2 they had at a local dealer both had one piece uppers with carry handles. I really wanted a flat top with a rail to choose my own optics without having to change the upper. They also would have been a pain to add a free float rail to because of the front sight with the gas block and all that.

Good choice. Flat tops are pretty much a must with the availability of optics these days.

In the end I ran out of options and took what was left. The quality of the rifle I bought probably isn't the greatest, and I paid way too much due to the timing but I wasn't gonna take my chances waiting for the perfect gun to come along with possible bans coming. Hopefully American Tactical Imports is at least decent.

I should make something clear. The reason I say that I would avoid buying brands X, Y, Z is not because they are going to be jam-o-matics or shoot key-holed groups. I avoid them because the prices offered on most of the budget guns are within spitting distance of a very good gun like the Colt.

It's a bit like if Honda's cost almost as much as a BMW. The Honda is still a fine car, but when you're so close to the real deal I don't see why you wouldn't bite the bullet and spend a bit more.

Pretty much any modern built AR-15 will be as reliable and well made as a civilian shooter needs it to be. Are there RRA's and DPMS' that can shoot thousands of rounds without malfunction? You bet.

Most of the things that separate an RRA or BM from a Colt are of no consequence to civilian shooters, but the Colt is superior and is priced very well for what it is.

Honestly, compared to some of the crap I've seen AK people get, AR people are in heaven. A friend of mine got a 5.45 rifle. It had a folding stock that didn't work, a damaged hand guard with cross-threaded screws that had been forced into place with a blunt object, a machined off trunnion, and shot keyholes at 10 yards. That was a quick return.

It is also worth noting that there are a great number of people who know more about this stuff than I do who would sooner use an RRA as a club than a firearm.

The first post is worth a read to anyone with a commercial-grade AR15.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376
 
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Just picked up 50 of these, German made Rottweil Exact slugs 2 3/4 12g, most accurate slugs I've ever fired through my shotgun. With €1 / shell the price is as stiff as the load itself.
You know, just in case werebears or zombie silverbacks decide to raid my house. :sly:

533024_1.jpg
 
Do LMT or the other companies on their level make an AR ambi/lefty upper? Is the lower naturally ambi just based on what parts you get for the safety and all that stuff?
 
Just picked up 50 of these, German made Rottweil Exact slugs 2 3/4 12g, most accurate slugs I've ever fired through my shotgun. With €1 / shell the price is as stiff as the load itself.
You know, just in case werebears or zombie silverbacks decide to raid my house. :sly:

:lol:👍

Is one-euro a lot? Where I shop(Walmart, duh), I think standard slugs go for around maybe $12 for box of 15. Magnums(3") I think are just another dollar for the same box of 15. Slugs are bad ass. I'm sure the standard Remington aren't as accurate, but with me pulling the trigger, I wouldn't even notice the difference. What a deal. :P
Do LMT or the other companies on their level make an AR ambi/lefty upper? Is the lower naturally ambi just based on what parts you get for the safety and all that stuff?
Do they still let left-handed people shoot guns in this country? Is it safe?

:P
LOL I do dig the Comblock stuff for some reason. Granted I want to buy a AR they are just so expensive.
I do like AK a lot, too. Yeah, ARs are spendy. Only reason I bought mine this early(last fall) was because I sort of sensed another assault weapons ban coming. Boy, aren't we glad we already got our rifles!

P.S. Z-Man, I'm gonna try to read that AR article tonight. I hope it won't make me cry....... worst case scenario, with the current AR-craze, I should be able to make my money back. :D
 
:lol:👍

Is one-euro a lot? Where I shop(Walmart, duh), I think standard slugs go for around maybe $12 for box of 15. Magnums(3") I think are just another dollar for the same box of 15. Slugs are bad ass. I'm sure the standard Remington aren't as accurate, but with me pulling the trigger, I wouldn't even notice the difference. What a deal. :P

Do they still let left-handed people shoot guns in this country? Is it safe?

:P

I do like AK a lot, too. Yeah, ARs are spendy. Only reason I bought mine this early(last fall) was because I sort of sensed another assault weapons ban coming. Boy, aren't we glad we already got our rifles!

P.S. Z-Man, I'm gonna try to read that AR article tonight. I hope it won't make me cry....... worst case scenario, with the current AR-craze, I should be able to make my money back. :D

+1 I may put my car mods on the shelf and buy a AR this year before that ban LOL
 
So I guess I should ask this here.

I own several rifles and a very old S&W .22 revolver, but I'm thinking about getting my first semi-automatic pistol and have really no idea where to start. I do plan on taking my CCW classes but that's mainly to be trained properly and be able to purchase guns easier. I probably won't carry but I'd like the option to if needed. I plan on spending most of my time at the range though and mainly just doing sport shooting.

I think I want something with a bit more grunt than a .22 but I don't want something where ammo is going to cost a fortune. I'm also looking to spend in the neighborhood of $500. I am used to shooting too so I really don't need an entry level gun, but my girlfriend has expressed interest in learning how to shoot to so I don't want to get something that will knock her over.

Any thoughts? I'm not really particular about brands, but I have shot quite a few Walther's and really like them. I'm willing to look at pretty much anything that's semi-auto though.
 
I'd recommend a Glock 19, or 17. 9mm's cheaper to shoot, mild recoil, very reliable, and enough power to be used as a defensive round.

I used to own Glock 17, and while I didn't think the gun was fun to shoot, it was super reliable, and very simple to clean & maintain. Glock 19 is a slightly smaller version of the 17. My top recommendation would be the 19. They both went for $500~$550(generation 3 models, which I'm recommending) before the gun control panic set in. I have no idea how much it fetches these days. :crazy:

P.S. I forgot Joey mentioned CCW. Glock 17's a fullsize, so that one's out.
 
Personally I'd go to the range and rent everything that's close to your price range. Glocks are great guns, but the shape really disagrees with some people's hands. (Myself included.)

Have any batches of those ex-agency SIGs been on the market lately? I've known a bunch of people who were really happy with ones they got through those sales, thought about getting one for myself a few times but haven't ever ended up doing it.
 
How's the operational record on your gun so far, Brett? Any failure to fire, extract or anything?
Personally I'd go to the range and rent everything that's close to your price range. Glocks are great guns, but the shape really disagrees with some people's hands. (Myself included.)

Have any batches of those ex-agency SIGs been on the market lately? I've known a bunch of people who were really happy with ones they got through those sales, thought about getting one for myself a few times but haven't ever ended up doing it.

Do you have any guns now, Taku?

Very true on the Glock, but I don't think it's that they are uncomfortable. I think it's more that Glocks are not as comfortable as some other handguns.

I'd love to own a P220 in 45, but I don't think the authorities ever used it.
No-no-no-no-no!
 
I have put 1,800 rounds through the pistol and have had the slide fail to lock open on an empty magazine twice. I have been able to recreate the problem racking the slide on an empty magazine at home and am pretty much certain it is a grip issue.
 
When you say grip issue, you mean like way you are gripping the gun, it's hitting like a slide stop?

It's got unique mag release, too.
 
Do LMT or the other companies on their level make an AR ambi/lefty upper? Is the lower naturally ambi just based on what parts you get for the safety and all that stuff?

The lower is a low stress component. It's hard to find lowers on the market that are done wrong. Brand is less important.

Some companies that make Ambi Lowers: MEGA Arms
Seekins Precision
Spike's Tactical (produced by Seekins)
Lancer
AXTS (my favorite)

Ambi safeties are cheap and can be used on any lower. The only issue is that the selector protrudes down onto the grip when in the FIRE position and can annoy some people's trigger fingers. Some companies offer shorter versions or versions that tilt 45degrees instead of 90.

So I guess I should ask this here. Snip Any thoughts? I'm not really particular about brands, but I have shot quite a few Walther's and really like them. I'm willing to look at pretty much anything that's semi-auto though.

I think TakFuj hit the nail on the head. Identify your needs, find a gun that fits your hands well, then select the caliber based on what works best in that platform.

Glock, Walther, Caracal, CZ. Really you can trust most well known pistol brands to provide a reliable and well made product.

I'm partial to CZ. I think they deserve more attention than they get. The recoil and triggers are just so nice.

Honesty, I'd be more than happy to shoot and carry any of the pistols suggested.

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2011/03/01/how-to-choose-a-concealed-carry-handgun-the-basics/Here's another guide
 
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