Real in-car sound in the Corvette C5-R

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jr93alty
thecracker...im sorry but ur crazy. valve size and shape are easily the most determining factor in engine sound (next to the exhaust piping obviously). putting firing order as number 1 is ridiculous. 60 degree chevy v6's were made to sound like quiet chevy v8's which alternated firing from one bank to another whereas the 60 degree motors fired 1-2-3-4-5-6 which is very odd. sound comes from vibrations which is related to frequencies. since most motors fire on one side then the other and so on, how can one v8 be differed from another. all are gonna have 2 firings on each side per rotation. so therefore, all v8's with normal firing orders should sound the same. u are way off base if u think firing order plays a huge part in sound. not even gonna address cranks...thats also way off base. compression yes, stroke yes, but not the crank. crank may play a part in both of those but either can also be changed by con rods. exhaust manifold yes...equal or odd length headers can definately change how a motor sounds, along with diameter which will obviously change the frequency of the air bouncing around, which, once again, affects how sounds is heard. so once again, valve size and shape and the cam can control the velocity, amount of turbulence and pressure (related to velocity) that the exhaust comes out at which affects frequency which is the root of all sound.
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Actually, I hear firing order is the reason why the Viper V10 sounds awful. Shelby worked hard with Ford to avoid this with the V10 in the new Shelby Cobra. They certainly don't sound the same.

I don't think all V8's sound the same either, but that's just an opinion.
 
How can you say that a viper engine sounds terrible?
 
i dont think all v8's sound the same either. that was my point. there are many factors that determine sound. most of them having to do with the frequency of air in the pipes. i said that if firing order was such a big deal, all v8's with the same firing order or even firing style (alternating banks etc for balance) would sound the same cuz each are firing two times per rotation per bank. like i said, most similar engines fire in similar ways because of balancing. like i said, even the odd firing 60 degree chevy motors couldnt be differentiated from any other chevy motor by sound thanks to the exhaust system. oh, and like iceman said...the viper sounds awful??? huh. if dodge thought it sounded awful, all they'd have to do is change header piping length to determine when exhaust from one cylinder blended with another. its that easy to some extent, if u dont wanna mess with head design, only then ur affecting the breathing and performance of the motor. obviously dodge is a little more worried about the performance of a viper rather than an unacceptable exhaust note. vipers may not sound as good as a vette to me but i'd never call it awful.
 
sUn
Speaking of spam. What's wrong with that picture.
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I was hoping someone would note that... Thanks for the example too beefcake.

Buggy Boy: I'm not that dumb (despite appearances), I meant a C5-R clip from "GT4".
 
Lethalchem
Actually, I hear firing order is the reason why the Viper V10 sounds awful.
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Ther Viper sounds awful???, Thats the first time Ive heard someone say that? You talk like thats a known fact, its just opinion.
 
jr93alty
i dont think all v8's sound the same either. that was my point. there are many factors that determine sound. most of them having to do with the frequency of air in the pipes. i said that if firing order was such a big deal, all v8's with the same firing order or even firing style (alternating banks etc for balance) would sound the same cuz each are firing two times per rotation per bank. like i said, most similar engines fire in similar ways because of balancing. like i said, even the odd firing 60 degree chevy motors couldnt be differentiated from any other chevy motor by sound thanks to the exhaust system. oh, and like iceman said...the viper sounds awful??? huh. if dodge thought it sounded awful, all they'd have to do is change header piping length to determine when exhaust from one cylinder blended with another. its that easy to some extent, if u dont wanna mess with head design, only then ur affecting the breathing and performance of the motor. obviously dodge is a little more worried about the performance of a viper rather than an unacceptable exhaust note. vipers may not sound as good as a vette to me but i'd never call it awful.
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Firstly, the list that i posted about 'engine sound' wasn't in any order of importance - but firing order does make a difference. Secondly V8s do all sound different - Lotus's V8 from the Esprit sounds bad (compared to many V8s) because it has a flat-plain crank - the biggest reason for 'V' formation engines to sound crappy. In the UK there is a race series for TVR Tuscans, not the Tuscan Speed 6's from GranTurismo, but an earlyer 'race only' Tuscan that was built on similar lines to the Griffith. For about ten years these Tuscans raced with the faithful Rover V8 engine which sounds fantastic - its a proper old-school american V8 (used to be a Buick V8 in the 50s') with pushrod valves no overhead cam etc. More recently they moved to TVR's own designed 'AJP8' V8 for the racers - but they sounded dreadful compared to the Rover engined ones from a few years back.
A flat-plain crank can make a V8 - sound like a straight 4 or rather 2 straight fours sat next to each other - not a great sound. The V10 in the Viper doesn't sound great - far from it - not in reality anyway, and not like a cross between a V8 and a V12 like you would expect.
 
icemanshooter23
How can you say that a viper engine sounds terrible?
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James Barrington
Viper sounds awful? Well, I must be deaf!
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I'm assuming you've heard one in person, and still like it. Nothing wrong with that, but I believe you will be in the minority though. I don't know anyone who particularly cares for how they sound. It's a fairly common opinion. Even the designer of the engine itself (who is now helping with the Shelby Cobra) mentioned the sound of the viper specifically, and said they were "doing it right this time".
 
I've heard one Viper in real life and it sounded pretty nice... but It was doing a low rev "parade" lap around Castle Coombe... So I've not heard one racing...

I have to say that, that day there were numerous TVR's on track and they were blasting past anything and everything apart from the little lotus 7's that were there... they were amazingly quick... scorching round the track really really fast!!

C.

PS @TheCracker I know which Tuscan's you mean... they kindof have a similar bonnet to a tamora with the vents... I'll try and find a pic...
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Check this link...

This is how serious TVR are for racing...
http://www.pistonheads.com/motorsport/driver.asp?s=36&id=105
 
yeti
I've heard one Viper in real life and it sounded pretty nice... but It was doing a low rev "parade" lap around Castle Coombe... So I've not heard one racing...
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Yeah, they are tolerable at idle, especially with a cam upgrade, but that's it. Here's an exerpt from an article by Dan Carney, and there are tons of orther articles echoing the same sentiment. It's not just my personal opinion. It's fairly widespread, but that's here in the US. I'm sure everyone has their own definition of what sounds good, based on what we grew up around:

Quoted from NewCarTestDrive: "A Porsche's flat-6 shrieks with Continental verve, as if it were always on its way to Monte Carlo. A Corvette's V8 thunders and rumbles, the fuel-injected embodiment of Rock'n'Roll.

The Viper's truck-based V10 sings with as much melody as the backup generator at Bellevue.

Okay, so the V10's sound doesn't exactly encourage you to delay a shift, but it does have a certain remorseless efficiency to it."
 
Lethalchem

I presume you live in the US of A?

If so - do all your Vipers over there have side exiting exhausts?

The Euro versions all have to have rear-exiting exhausts - which just makes them sound even worse.
 
The RT-10 has side exits, the GTS has rear exits. The newest SRT-10 I believe has rear exits in the US.

Someone please correct me if I am incorrect.
 
TheCracker
Lethalchem

I presume you live in the US of A?

If so - do all your Vipers over there have side exiting exhausts?

The Euro versions all have to have rear-exiting exhausts - which just makes them sound even worse.
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Yes, I'm in America. The first Viper was the RT/10 (I believe 1992-1995) had the side exhaust:
rt1039.jpg

Although somewhere towards the end of that bodystle they went to rear:
rt102.jpg

Then the GTS went to rear exhausts only (which was somewhere around 1996-2003):
gts43.jpg

And now the new SRT-10 version has gone back to side exhaust, although it's moulded into the paneling instead of a more conventional sidepipe.

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In 1990 the concept viper was revealed. In 1992 it went into production. ;)
 
Darin
In 1990 the concept viper was revealed. In 1992 it went into production. ;)
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That is correct. The GTS in silver with white stripes looks oh so purtay.
 
sUn
That is correct. The GTS in silver with white stripes looks oh so purtay.
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I agree. I think they took a styling step backwards when they dropped the GTS for the SRT-10.
 
I agree - the SRT-10 looks too corvette-like for my liking. I hope the production coupe version is more striking - like the concept version in GT3/C.
 
thecracker. posting about tvr's doesnt explain why an engine sounds a certain way. changing mufflers and resonators can change the way any car sounds so one particular car doesnt matter. tell me something that proves what i said wrong. u might have a hard time finding it. also, V10's arent supposed to sound like a cross breed between between a v8 and a v12 especially when the v10 is an 8 liter engine. also, the main reason they wont sound the same is because most v12's are small stroke, large bore, "small" displacement engines (for a v12 that is) and have long duration cams for high revs. that alone makes a v12 sound different. the reason people choose a v12 usually is because its a naturally balanced motor (like an inline 6) which allows for the cam and almost any kind of tuned intake and exhaust u can imagine without worrying about the motor. a v10 is nothing like a v12 just like a I6 is nothing like a V6. I6's are the most stable motors in the world and v12's can be just as stable if rod angle and length are chose right which they should be if an elite car company is building them. this is the whole reason massive v8's lope at idle with massive cams. inline engines, and v12's, can run much wilder cams while idling just fine. never compare a torquey v10 to a rev happy v12.
 
Lethalchem
Actually, I hear firing order is the reason why the Viper V10 sounds awful. Shelby worked hard with Ford to avoid this with the V10 in the new Shelby Cobra. They certainly don't sound the same.

I don't think all V8's sound the same either, but that's just an opinion.
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True, a supercharged Cobra and a Camaro with the SLP widemouth exhaust just don't sound the same. To completely different, but equally as good sounding, rumbles. Like the supercharger hissing noise on the Cobra when you rev it up quick, and the Camaro at WOT :D

Of course, I'd take the Camaro over the Mustang anyday (brand loyalty/I'm biased)

Chem, no matter how you slice it stock Vipers sound like junk, any year, any version :D
 
I never said a V10 is supposed to sound like a cross between a V8 and a V12. I said it, like all my comments, to prove that engine sound depends on so many more factors than the ones that you stated.
 
jr93alty
this is the whole reason massive v8's lope at idle with massive cams. inline engines, and v12's, can run much wilder cams while idling just fine.
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Mmmmmm....cam lope. :drool:
 
Victor Vance
True, a supercharged Cobra and a Camaro with the SLP widemouth exhaust just don't sound the same. To completely different, but equally as good sounding, rumbles. Like the supercharger hissing noise on the Cobra when you rev it up quick, and the Camaro at WOT :D

Of course, I'd take the Camaro over the Mustang anyday (brand loyalty/I'm biased)

Chem, no matter how you slice it stock Vipers sound like junk, any year, any version :D
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Actually, it sounds more like a whine than a hiss, to me. :lol:

I agree completely with you though. My car club has several LS1's that are brutally fast, and I love listening to them idle when they're uncorked. That's the one thing I miss with my new car. You can't get the same cam thump out of my 4 camshafts as you can in the Slomaro/Fireturds. Those things sound sweet!👍
 
TheCracker
I never said a V10 is supposed to sound like a cross between a V8 and a V12. I said it, like all my comments, to prove that engine sound depends on so many more factors than the ones that you stated.
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but u still havent explained why im wrong. i'd like to hear some science or common sense or something that determines engine sound and how valve size and shape are not important and do not affect the vibrations and frequency of the air. if we wanna get ridiculous we can do like i said and just create any sound we want using mufflers and resonators with various materials, perforations, and angles of slots. but leaving that alone, it still comes down to valve size/shape and cam when it comes to throatyness (if thats a word).
 
:lol: ha ha ha! Corvette knocks out Porsche!!!! Simply fantastic! But that is not good quality sound. I don't think you can use the audio in that video as any basis for argument.


Ever heard a Harley Dragster???? oh it sounds so awesome next to some stupid suzuki when they are revving at the line!!!!!!
 
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