real life manual cars questions.

  • Thread starter Thread starter ddldave
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Ok,
I don't want to have the last word, but, i repeat that I am talking about my driving style. If you all feel comfortable, keep on using h&t.

Recap:
I'll check this, once learnt (it is quite similar to the double clutching, i should have understood this at least). I didn't dismiss your, Azuremen's and Duke's point of view. I take them into consideration, but I have my point of view as well, and i can't avoid expressing it just because i am risking to go throug an "arrow rain"

I agree with the use of racing tecniques while normal driving, but to me this is quite exaggerate.

Now that I know that you drive a RWD, i can understand why you aren't an engine braking fan.

oh, and for the wet shoe, a thing is keeping your foot well vertically stuck on a single pedal, another is letting it dance between two... no matter Sparco shoes you may wear.

Moaibob, respecting everyone's opinion. 👍
 
Hey shouldn't we explain to this kid about hills and inclines? I'm kind of new to them myself. In Miami, the only inclines are parking garages.
 
Giancarlo
Hey shouldn't we explain to this kid about hills and inclines? I'm kind of new to them myself. In Miami, the only inclines are parking garages.
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No different than normal for me... I never bothered with the somewhat silly hand brake method for leaving hills. Just need to be a bit quicker with the brake to gas transition.
 
Azuremen
No different than normal for me... I never bothered with the somewhat silly hand brake method for leaving hills. Just need to be a bit quicker with the brake to gas transition.
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I've got hills near me that you'd be silly not to use the handbrake. Unless, of course, you enjoy smelling your clutch.

Slightly OT: I just passed my heavy vehicle licence on a non-synchro box. I can now drive vehicles over 8 tonnes. Yay for me.
 
somebody
I've got hills near me that you'd be silly not to use the handbrake. Unless, of course, you enjoy smelling your clutch.
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Using more throttle and letting out the clutch more quickly has always worked for me. No excessive slippage.

Giancarlo
Can you elaborate on the handbrake method? Disengaging the handbrake slowly?
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Basically, instead of using the brakes to hold the car before starting to move, you use the handbrake to hold the car, so that your feet can already be on the throttle and clutch. Disengaging the handbrake slowly in tandem with letting out the clutch is one way you could do it, I guess.
 
It takes about a week to learn the trick of starting on hills. You just need to be able to let the clutch out right to the biting point in the time it takes your right foot to get from the brakes to the gas. You can even practice on the flats until your left foot has the hang of it.
 
I learned in my Fox by parking on a hill in an empty parking lot and going for it. Took me about ten or twelve tries before I got it right, since then, the only thing I really have to worry about is giving it a hair too much gas and spinning the tires in first. Otherwise, nothing too hard...
 
I don't know if anybody mentioned it or not, but don't hold the clutch in for any extended periods of time. That'll causes excess stress on the throwout bearing and lead to a premature replacement.
 
Duke
It takes about a week to learn the trick of starting on hills. You just need to be able to let the clutch out right to the biting point in the time it takes your right foot to get from the brakes to the gas. You can even practice on the flats until your left foot has the hang of it.
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Fully Quoted 👍
 
Well, I just drove our manual PT Cruiser for the first time today. It was a lot of fun (very nervous fun), but, boy, what a pain in the ass. It's hard to get used to the clutch when you have a huge foot like I do. I'm going to have to take out the thick rubber floor mats that my aunt put in there. See, my foot's range of motion usually ends right before the clutch catches. Gotta get used to moving my left leg to the right position. I have to give it a few more goes, hopefully in daylight next time. Also, I had a hard time going from 2nd to 3rd for some reason. I kept throwing it into 5th, lol.

You guys are right about the thrill factor, though. I broke more sweat over driving the PT Cruiser 5 blocks around the neighborhood than I did driving my dad's C55 10 miles across town.

Anyway, I'll update all of you on my progress if you're interested. Transformersmissions: more than meets the eye.
 
Congrats. Wait, they sold PT Cruisers with a stick? Wow, I never knew.
 
Omnis
Also, I had a hard time going from 2nd to 3rd for some reason. I kept throwing it into 5th, lol.
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Two common reasons to do this:

1) You may be pushing the stick across to grab 3rd. 3rd and 4th should be in the middle of the box so all you need to do is push it out of 2nd in to neutral and let the spring centre the stick, then push straight up to 3rd (presuming the 'box is a normal design).

2) You're trying to change gears too fast. Slow down and feel the gear slots until you get better. Some 'boxes can't be rushed. My old Corolla could be changed lightning fast and was forgiving, but my new Swift punishes any little mistake and I have to consciously slow down my changes.

... then again, it may be something completely different.
 
Omnis
Well, I just drove our manual PT Cruiser for the first time today. It was a lot of fun (very nervous fun), but, boy, what a pain in the ass. It's hard to get used to the clutch when you have a huge foot like I do. I'm going to have to take out the thick rubber floor mats that my aunt put in there. See, my foot's range of motion usually ends right before the clutch catches. Gotta get used to moving my left leg to the right position. I have to give it a few more goes, hopefully in daylight next time. Also, I had a hard time going from 2nd to 3rd for some reason. I kept throwing it into 5th, lol.

You guys are right about the thrill factor, though. I broke more sweat over driving the PT Cruiser 5 blocks around the neighborhood than I did driving my dad's C55 10 miles across town.

Anyway, I'll update all of you on my progress if you're interested. Transformersmissions: more than meets the eye.
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I've seen quite a few people do that. I think the problem is that you are trying to actually shift to third. Don't, just push the stick forward with the palm of your hand while keeping your fingers loose around the shifter. This just keeps you from directing the shifter yourself too much.

My civic's shifter has a bad bushing/bearing thingy at the bottom and wobbles around 2 inches side to side freely. It still doesn't miss 3rd even if I shift as fast as I physically can, so don't worry about "making sure" it gets into third or anything like that. I used to think it would go into 1st or something, but it just doesn't.

And I don't think having a large foot keeps you from controlling the clutch well, just move your leg instead of your foot.
 
Perfect Balance
I've seen quite a few people do that. I think the problem is that you are trying to actually shift to third. Don't, just push the stick forward with the palm of your hand while keeping your fingers loose around the shifter. This just keeps you from directing the shifter yourself too much.

My civic's shifter has a bad bushing/bearing thingy at the bottom and wobbles around 2 inches side to side freely. It still doesn't miss 3rd even if I shift as fast as I physically can, so don't worry about "making sure" it gets into third or anything like that. I used to think it would go into 1st or something, but it just doesn't.

And I don't think having a large foot keeps you from controlling the clutch well, just move your leg instead of your foot.
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Thanks, and, yeah, that's what I wound up doing. I don't know why I didn't think of that before.

And as for the clutch, it's not so much of my foot as it is my leg. I have to get used to pulling my leg back more is what I meant. See, I'm used to just pulling back my right leg and putting it onto the brakes while using my ankle to control how hard I press the pedal. So, I have to get used to holding my left leg back (instead of relaxing it on the pedal as I would with the right) while modulating with my foot in order to even be in range of the clutch-catch.

Basically, I just need more practice.
 
I think I’ve said this somewhere before, but when I first got my learner’s permit, my parents didn’t let me do any driving at all until I spent one week, every day, doing steep hill starts. (And I do mean very steep.)

Of course, after that, everything else was easy. I’d recommend that to anybody else who wants to quickly learn how to drive a stick, because 90% of the battle is learning how to control the “bite” point.
 
Sage
I think I’ve said this somewhere before, but when I first got my learner’s permit, my parents didn’t let me do any driving at all until I spent one week, every day, doing steep hill starts. (And I do mean very steep.)

Of course, after that, everything else was easy. I’d recommend that to anybody else who wants to quickly learn how to drive a stick, because 90% of the battle is learning how to control the “bite” point.
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This is a very good idea. I had gotten my car just a day before my license, and when I got my license, the first thing I did was get out of the drivers education car and hop into my own and go for a drive. I just avoided hills for a long time until I decided to go ahead and try it. If I had done that straight away I would have learned much faster.
 
moaibob
ok, got it. I misunderstood the meaning. But i have smooth downshifts without heel and toe, just braking before the corner, then downshift and banlance the engine revs with the wheel speed before releasing the clutch pedal. I never experienced the "engine lash" that this tecnique is supposed to solve (also downshifting two gerars in one - i.e. 4th to 2nd).
I'll check this out anyway...
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what does balance the engine revs mean?
 
ddldave
what does balance the engine revs mean?
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To match the rpms of the motor with how fast the wheels are spinning.

For example, in second gear at 4000 rpms my car goes 40mph.

So if I'm rolling at 40mph and I put the stick in second, to "balance" the rpms would be to rev my engine to 4000 rpms before releasing the clutch, so it would be perfectly smooth, since the engine and transmission are going the "same speed"


EDIT: Watch this video. The first couple downshifts are without "balancing the revs" and you can hear how the wheels have to speed the engine up. The on the other downshifts where he "rev matched/balanced the revs" you can tell it's a lot smoother.

 
Wolfe
If I'm reading this right, this is what I do in normal driving, because it's a lazy way to rev-match downshifts when you aren't moving quickly and don't need to shift quickly (as you do in performance driving).

Depress clutch, shift into neutral, use throttle to match RPM, shift into lower gear, release clutch.

Works great for turning left from a 35mph street into a parking lot, as I often do while heading in to work -- 5th to 3rd in that case. For my own amusement, or if I feel like being particularly nice to my synchros, I'll sometimes even double-clutch it.
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wait, so you have set the car in neutral first before you start rev matching? and what's the throttle mean? and how do i know how much rpm to shift to? what car do you drive and when do you rev match on every gear? teach me please.
 
Perfect Balance
To match the rpms of the motor with how fast the wheels are spinning.

For example, in second gear at 4000 rpms my car goes 40mph.

So if I'm rolling at 40mph and I put the stick in second, to "balance" the rpms would be to rev my engine to 4000 rpms before releasing the clutch, so it would be perfectly smooth, since the engine and transmission are going the "same speed"
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oh okay thanks, i sort of get it. it'd be nice if you could explain more and give more detail.

okay, so i drive and i shift the gear to 2 and now i'm going at 40 mph, and i need to match the rpm to 4000, when i shift to 2, and before i even hit 40, what was my rpm? was it higher or lower than 4000? just wandering so i can prepare, thanks.
 
ddldave
wait, so you have set the car in neutral first before you start rev matching? and what's the throttle mean? and how do i know how much rpm to shift to? what car do you drive and when do you rev match on every gear? teach me please.
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No, you don't set the car in neutral. Rev matching is a fairly easy thing on up shift once you get use to the clutch feel and flywheel and the links. On the down shift, you should toe and heel if needed.

Throttle is gas... and the rest of your questions don't really matter since it varies from car to car on when to shift, what revs need to be changed, and the likes.
 
ddldave
oh okay thanks, i sort of get it. it'd be nice if you could explain more and give more detail.

okay, so i drive and i shift the gear to 2 and now i'm going at 40 mph, and i need to match the rpm to 4000, when i shift to 2, and before i even hit 40, what was my rpm? was it higher or lower than 4000? just wandering so i can prepare, thanks.
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I'm not too sure on how to give more detail, but I can answer you second question.

If you are shifting TO second FROM 1st gear at 40mph, then your rpms will be higher than 4000, and you can just time your shift so that when you are done shifting to second gear, your engine has just dropped to 4000 rpms during that time. This is a very very easy step, you learn this just by driving around normally for a few days. You don't even have to really "learn" this part. A normal shift should be around the perfect timing.


Now, if you are downshifting from 3rd to second at 40mph, then your rpms will be lower, and you have to rev (balance the revs) the engine to 4000rpms before letting go of the clutch to make a smooth downshift.

EDIT: Heel-toe is an advanced maneuver that involved rev matching WHILE braking. You don't have to use this in normal driving.

EDIT: Seriously, try to find someone with a manual car that can go out to some parking lot or something and let you give it a try. The reason you don't understand a lot of what we are saying is because you haven't been able to experience what a car normally does while driving around normally like any other person does.
 
Perfect Balance
EDIT: Seriously, try to find someone with a manual car that can go out to some parking lot or something and let you give it a try. The reason you don't understand a lot of what we are saying is because you haven't been able to experience what a car normally does while driving around normally like any other person does.
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Amen. Once you drive the car, it will all come together. It's quite an experience, and it's definitely humbling.



... Just make sure you have a good battery before heading out.
 

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