Real life track experience vs GT6

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smskeeter23

smskeeter23

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Lately I've seen a few articles and such about the "Playstation Heros" showing up at Nordschliefe and being shocked at how different it is in real life. I know this happens at many other tracks as well. My guess is that the biggest difference is due to the perception of elevation change (along with hard to guage perception of speed). I don't think we can really appreciate that on any game that exists.

So I am wondering, for those of you who have actually been on track at some of the locations in GT6, how accurate would you say they really are in game?

My guess is that we have people here with real life experiences on Laguna Seca, Nordshliefe, Tsukuba, and Bathurst at absolute minimum.
 
Hmm, I've addressed this in several other threads with context to brakes, camber, and what a sim can help with vs can't when applied to the real world. I've raced a lot of things in the past 20 years starting with MX, then sportbikes, and now cars. Though I'm not a pro, I have participated in Pro-Am events. My "home tracks" are Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, Sears (Infineon raceway), and Thunder Hill. I've also run several laps of the Nurburgring back in 2011 in a Clio Renault RS 200 Cup car.

For an overarching explanation I might compare the difference to watching a nature documentary vs actually going into nature. In a documentary there are always animals and narration and you get an idea what it might be like. When you go into nature for real you wonder where all the animals are and the explanations of your surroundings but you notice things you might not expect like smells, noises, the breeze, weather... But if you stay in nature long enough you start to bond with it, you're senses start telling you things, and you discover things no documentary could cover. Though there is a commonality of feeling that you can notice, the 2 experiences are VERY different...

Many claim fear is the leading difference but thats not the case. Yes, there is more caution but when the adrenaline is pumping you have to control it and that all but nums fear... Amateurs do go on track with fear of damaging the car and having to pay for it, or someone elses car, etc. but the reality is for a true racer fear is completely replaced by intellectual calculating decisions as you are faced with over 1000 decisions a minute... That leaves little time for fear. I might argue those that are afraid really have no business being out there, but those that are consciously aware of the danger but not letting it influence their craft, are being responsible and all drivers should have some degree of self preservation.

At the grandest level is a competition between yourself and the tools you have at your disposal, like you're taming a beast and commanding it to do your will. Much of this drama can't be caught in a sim but going online with a responsible group like SNAIL can simulate the feeling of door to door racing in that there are firm rules about contact (straight out of a real rule book), just like real racing, and that concern sensation in a sim you have about hitting another driver you're trying to pass is very much like real life, it's not so much fear as it is self preservation, and forcing you to observe where they are fast and where they are slow and plan passes well in advance... In sims the leading driver tends to be more courteous about their own skill and yield, not at all the case in real racing. Many drivers survive contact, its part of the experience, and its all part of the cost... Its why there is a 50/50 rule in racing... Your car must look "clean" at 50 feet and/or 50mph...

Another common crossover feeling in the psychology. Most don't appreciate that psychology is as much to do with racing as actually piloting a car... Both a sim driver and real driver will tell you there are times you just ride the tail of the guy in front of you until he makes a mistake, its only a matter of time before that mirror full of car distracts the driver... In racing there is forward thinking and backward thinking... Both need to be managed and balanced.

The leading weakness in sims are tire modeling, no game gets this right because the engineers aren't real racers and try to mimic real world physics without real world conditions that influence them. GT does a respectable job but the reality is games don't model the slip angle and the fluctuating tire pressures and flex anywhere close to realistically. Yes, there is a cliff when exceeding grip but its more to do with weight transfer than tires... Tires are pushed beyond a limit by other factors beyond just giving up. In real racing you feel all this in your butt, a good racer feels each of the 4 tires and percentage of load at all 4 corners and downforce gain and drop off all in their hands, feel, and butt.

There are a few very rare instances that I've gotten my "race face" in sims and got in the zone and exceeded my true sim skills, and the fact that I was able to do that is what keeps me coming back, but it's rare. Sim skill does degrade over time whereas real life racing does not. Every single lap in the real world you improve... It's like Skiing or riding a bike.

So if you have never raced in real life, then use some imagination, go online with real drivers, pretend like your car is your own real car, learn the limits of the car, then how to stretch them (hard to do in a game with so many options), and you'll be exercising a degree of what real drivers do. For more pointed explanations on specifics I would encourage reading some of my post history over the past year. I too would like to hear from the GT academy guys as all racers have different ways to explain common details but I think GTA is partially promotional between sim and reality so I'm not sure how accurate or direct they would be with comparisons.
 
Lawndart
Hmm, I've addressed this in several other threads with context to brakes, camber, and what a sim can help with vs can't when applied to the real world. I've raced a lot of things in the past 20 years starting with MX, then sportbikes, and now cars. Though I'm not a pro, I have participated in Pro-Am events. My "home tracks" are Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, Sears (Infineon raceway), and Thunder Hill. I've also run several laps of the Nurburgring back in 2011 in a Clio Renault RS 200 Cup car.

For an overarching explanation I might compare the difference to watching a nature documentary vs actually going into nature. In a documentary there are always animals and narration and you get an idea what it might be like. When you go into nature for real you wonder where all the animals are and the explanations of your surroundings but you notice things you might not expect like smells, noises, the breeze, weather... But if you stay in nature long enough you start to bond with it, you're senses start telling you things, and you discover things no documentary could cover. Though there is a commonality of feeling that you can notice, the 2 experiences are VERY different...

Many claim fear is the leading difference but thats not the case. Yes, there is more caution but when the adrenaline is pumping you have to control it and that all but nums fear... Amateurs do go on track with fear of damaging the car and having to pay for it, or someone elses car, etc. but the reality is for a true racer fear is completely replaced by intellectual calculating decisions as you are faced with over 1000 decisions a minute... That leaves little time for fear. I might argue those that are afraid really have no business being out there, but those that are consciously aware of the danger but not letting it influence their craft, are being responsible and all drivers should have some degree of self preservation.

At the grandest level is a competition between yourself and the tools you have at your disposal, like you're taming a beast and commanding it to do your will. Much of this drama can't be caught in a sim but going online with a responsible group like SNAIL can simulate the feeling of door to door racing in that there are firm rules about contact (straight out of a real rule book), just like real racing, and that concern sensation in a sim you have about hitting another driver you're trying to pass is very much like real life, it's not so much fear as it is self preservation, and forcing you to observe where they are fast and where they are slow and plan passes well in advance... In sims the leading driver tends to be more courteous about their own skill and yield, not at all the case in real racing. Many drivers survive contact, its part of the experience, and its all part of the cost... Its why there is a 50/50 rule in racing... Your car must look "clean" at 50 feet and/or 50mph...

Another common crossover feeling in the psychology. Most don't appreciate that psychology is as much to do with racing as actually piloting a car... Both a sim driver and real driver will tell you there are times you just ride the tail of the guy in front of you until he makes a mistake, its only a matter of time before that mirror full of car distracts the driver... In racing there is forward thinking and backward thinking... Both need to be managed and balanced.

The leading weakness in sims are tire modeling, no game gets this right because the engineers aren't real racers and try to mimic real world physics without real world conditions that influence them. GT does a respectable job but the reality is games don't model the slip angle and the fluctuating tire pressures and flex anywhere close to realistically. Yes, there is a cliff when exceeding grip but its more to do with weight transfer than tires... Tires are pushed beyond a limit by other factors beyond just giving up. In real racing you feel all this in your butt, a good racer feels each of the 4 tires and percentage of load at all 4 corners and downforce gain and drop off all in their hands, feel, and butt.

There are a few very rare instances that I've gotten my "race face" in sims and got in the zone and exceeded my true sim skills, and the fact that I was able to do that is what keeps me coming back, but it's rare. Sim skill does degrade over time whereas real life racing does not. Every single lap in the real world you improve... It's like Skiing or riding a bike.

So if you have never raced in real life, then use some imagination, go online with real drivers, pretend like your car is your own real car, learn the limits of the car, then how to stretch them (hard to do in a game with so many options), and you'll be exercising a degree of what real drivers do. For more pointed explanations on specifics I would encourage reading some of my post history over the past year. I too would like to hear from the GT academy guys as all racers have different ways to explain common details but I think GTA is partially promotional between sim and reality so I'm not sure how accurate or direct they would be with comparisons.
Click to expand...
Great feedback...
 
Lawndart
Hmm, I've addressed this in several other threads with context to brakes, camber, and what a sim can help with vs can't when applied to the real world. I've raced a lot of things in the past 20 years starting with MX, then sportbikes, and now cars. Though I'm not a pro, I have participated in Pro-Am events. My "home tracks" are Willow Springs, Laguna Seca, Sears (Infineon raceway), and Thunder Hill. I've also run several laps of the Nurburgring back in 2011 in a Clio Renault RS 200 Cup car.

For an overarching explanation I might compare the difference to watching a nature documentary vs actually going into nature. In a documentary there are always animals and narration and you get an idea what it might be like. When you go into nature for real you wonder where all the animals are and the explanations of your surroundings but you notice things you might not expect like smells, noises, the breeze, weather... But if you stay in nature long enough you start to bond with it, you're senses start telling you things, and you discover things no documentary could cover. Though there is a commonality of feeling that you can notice, the 2 experiences are VERY different...

Many claim fear is the leading difference but thats not the case. Yes, there is more caution but when the adrenaline is pumping you have to control it and that all but nums fear... Amateurs do go on track with fear of damaging the car and having to pay for it, or someone elses car, etc. but the reality is for a true racer fear is completely replaced by intellectual calculating decisions as you are faced with over 1000 decisions a minute... That leaves little time for fear. I might argue those that are afraid really have no business being out there, but those that are consciously aware of the danger but not letting it influence their craft, are being responsible and all drivers should have some degree of self preservation.

At the grandest level is a competition between yourself and the tools you have at your disposal, like you're taming a beast and commanding it to do your will. Much of this drama can't be caught in a sim but going online with a responsible group like SNAIL can simulate the feeling of door to door racing in that there are firm rules about contact (straight out of a real rule book), just like real racing, and that concern sensation in a sim you have about hitting another driver you're trying to pass is very much like real life, it's not so much fear as it is self preservation, and forcing you to observe where they are fast and where they are slow and plan passes well in advance... In sims the leading driver tends to be more courteous about their own skill and yield, not at all the case in real racing. Many drivers survive contact, its part of the experience, and its all part of the cost... Its why there is a 50/50 rule in racing... Your car must look "clean" at 50 feet and/or 50mph...

Another common crossover feeling in the psychology. Most don't appreciate that psychology is as much to do with racing as actually piloting a car... Both a sim driver and real driver will tell you there are times you just ride the tail of the guy in front of you until he makes a mistake, its only a matter of time before that mirror full of car distracts the driver... In racing there is forward thinking and backward thinking... Both need to be managed and balanced.

The leading weakness in sims are tire modeling, no game gets this right because the engineers aren't real racers and try to mimic real world physics without real world conditions that influence them. GT does a respectable job but the reality is games don't model the slip angle and the fluctuating tire pressures and flex anywhere close to realistically. Yes, there is a cliff when exceeding grip but its more to do with weight transfer than tires... Tires are pushed beyond a limit by other factors beyond just giving up. In real racing you feel all this in your butt, a good racer feels each of the 4 tires and percentage of load at all 4 corners and downforce gain and drop off all in their hands, feel, and butt.

There are a few very rare instances that I've gotten my "race face" in sims and got in the zone and exceeded my true sim skills, and the fact that I was able to do that is what keeps me coming back, but it's rare. Sim skill does degrade over time whereas real life racing does not. Every single lap in the real world you improve... It's like Skiing or riding a bike.

So if you have never raced in real life, then use some imagination, go online with real drivers, pretend like your car is your own real car, learn the limits of the car, then how to stretch them (hard to do in a game with so many options), and you'll be exercising a degree of what real drivers do. For more pointed explanations on specifics I would encourage reading some of my post history over the past year. I too would like to hear from the GT academy guys as all racers have different ways to explain common details but I think GTA is partially promotional between sim and reality so I'm not sure how accurate or direct they would be with comparisons.
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Thanks again for that. I have read many of your posts like this in the past and they are always well stated and right on. I have also raced MX in the past and some other small things so I understand the difference of being on an actual track vs a virtual one. Another thing many people don't realize is how different being on the track 20ft away is from even standing right at the fence. It's a truly surreal thing the first time you are the one on the track instead of a spectator. It's like being on a different planet compared to simply "looking" at the track.

All the "how realistic is GT" stuff aside I'm really just wondering how well the tracks are actually modelled I guess. The "how real is GT" thing has been beaten to death over and over again.

For instance how well are the undulations and elevations at Willow and Leguna modelled? I am absolutely certain that the corkscrew is terrifying in real life until you get used to it where as in GT it's a "somewhat steep hill". Sure there are a TON of bumps and such on the Ring but I'd venture a guess that there are thousands of them that aren't in GT that make a huge difference.

I have however heard that High Speed Ring is modelled so well you can't tell the difference :lol:
 
From my opinion, here are the major difference between real life and GT6:
1. Lack of G-force feel at cornering.
2. Lack of progressive brake pressure feel under braking.
3. Lack of progressive pedal pressure feel under throttle application.
4. Real life sense of speed is much more "crazier" than in game. I don't know how to describe it exactly but what I mean is that 80 MPH in the same car feel so much "faster" in real life than in game.
5. #4 leads to stronger sense of danger in real life hence a more conservative driving than in game.
6. You can feel the heat in your head and whole body and have a lot of sweat driving in real life than in game.
7. You turn your head to look at left/right mirrors and surrounding in 360 degree in real life and not just a looking at the front TV.
8. Brake can fade in real life under excessive heavy braking but not in game.
9. You can hear the engine, intake, exhaust kicking in with different sound and pitch under different RPM in real life, not in game.
10. Tires give some specific warning (steering wheel feel lighter, the tire squealing noise with higher pitch...) before running out of traction much more realistic than in game.
11. You can feel both vertical and horizontal weight transfer in real life and not in game. All you feel in game is mostly understeering/oversteering feeling.
12. You can feel the ABS kicking in under heavy braking with a special kind of vibration in real life car that is very hard to mimic in game.
13. Your blood pressure and heart beating rate is much much much more higher driving in RL than in game. I am so sure on this.
14. It cost a whole lot more money to drive in RL than in game lol. $1000+ for tires, hundreds for brake and other maintenance, $65 for each tank of gas, $150 or so for each track session, $85-140 for each autocross session, $25-40 for each kart session etc. In game, flat fee of $30-40 lol.

I started out with experience at karting, autocross, track prior to playing this game. I just started out in this game. I would guess others have a other points to add in as well.
 
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smskeeter23
Thanks again for that. I have read many of your posts like this in the past and they are always well stated and right on. I have also raced MX in the past and some other small things so I understand the difference of being on an actual track vs a virtual one. Another thing many people don't realize is how different being on the track 20ft away is from even standing right at the fence. It's a truly surreal thing the first time you are the one on the track instead of a spectator. It's like being on a different planet compared to simply "looking" at the track.

All the "how realistic is GT" stuff aside I'm really just wondering how well the tracks are actually modelled I guess. The "how real is GT" thing has been beaten to death over and over again.

For instance how well are the undulations and elevations at Willow and Leguna modelled? I am absolutely certain that the corkscrew is terrifying in real life until you get used to it where as in GT it's a "somewhat steep hill". Sure there are a TON of bumps and such on the Ring but I'd venture a guess that there are thousands of them that aren't in GT that make a huge difference.

I have however heard that High Speed Ring is modelled so well you can't tell the difference :lol:
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Willow is spot on nearly perfect. It's remarkable how in game I do exactly the same thing as real life. The only difference is when I raced there in the late 90's on bikes there used to be a seem throughout all of turn 2... Perhaps it's been resurfaced since but that seem enabled me to transition and pass much faster in real life because most where scared of it... For good reason as it divided the turn by having a higher surface on the outside than the inside...

Laguna Seca is very close, turn 6 is more recessed, and the bottom of the corkscrew is recessed too much in game. It did have a major overhaul from GT 5 for the better though. The most glaring omission is the lack of raised sausage strips in all of the turns, the red squares in the apexes are brutally high in real life. Turn 6 and the exit of turn 9 are the most challenging in real life. Turn 9 exit is just dangerous in real life as it "falls away" and if you carry too much speed you'll fly off it and hit the wall ass end first. But you need to use it for the fastest line. Most lap times in GT 6 are bogus because people cut the sausage strip in turn 6 in game, in real life it would rip your wheel off.

The cork screw is actually one of the easiest turns as its second gear but there is some risk of getting on the throttle too early at the bottom in real life as the car has a lot more momentum from weight.

There is also a lot of pr about that corner, it's said to be 5 stories high, that is because it descends all the way to turn 10.

The ring is about the most accurate I've seen in a game to the best of my recollection. But yes, the elevation changes are much more pronounced in real life but they are in game, it's just not as easy to convey in a 2D medium/TV. Not too dissimilar to watching videos but the higher contrast of videos help, something to look forward to in GT 7.

FSportIS
From my opinion, here are the major difference between real life and GT6:
1. Lack of G-force feel at cornering.
2. Lack of progressive brake pressure feel under braking.
3. Lack of progressive pedal pressure feel under throttle application.
4. Real life sense of speed is much more "crazier" than in game. I don't know how to describe it exactly but what I mean is that 80 MPH in the same car feel so much "faster" in real life than in game.
5. #4 leads to stronger sense of danger in real life hence a more conservative driving than in game.
6. You can feel the heat in your head and whole body and have a lot of sweat driving in real life than in game.
7. You turn your head to look at left/right mirrors and surrounding in 360 degree in real life and not just a looking at the front TV.
8. Brake can fade in real life under excessive heavy braking but not in game.
9. You can hear the engine, intake, exhaust kicking in with different sound and pitch under different RPM in real life, not in game.
10. Tires give some specific warning (steering wheel feel lighter, the tire squealing noise with higher pitch...) before running out of traction much more realistic than in game.
11. You can feel both vertical and horizontal weight transfer in real life and not in game. All you feel in game is mostly understeering/oversteering feeling.
12. You can feel the ABS kicking in under heavy braking with a special kind of vibration in real life car that is very hard to mimic in game.
13. Your blood pressure and heart beating rate is much much much more higher driving in RL than in game. I am so sure on this.
14. It cost a whole lot more money to drive in RL than in game lol. $1000+ for tires, hundreds for brake and other maintenance, $65 for each tank of gas, $150 or so for each track session, $85-140 for each autocross session, $25-40 for each kart session etc. In game, flat fee of $30-40 lol.

I started out with experience at karting, autocross, track prior to playing this game. I just started out in this game. I would guess others have a other points to add in as well.
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Great points, the speed pucker factor is indeed higher in real life, it's the point were you know if something goes wrong your along for the ride... Games also do tricks to try and enhance this like making props on the side of the track larger than reality. To me the game feels faster but then again, in real life things are more fluid and everyone is using the same references and breaking points so it's easier to react.

One more point, new racers are shocked by how close cars are at speed... Even at 3 feet apart it feels like 3 inches. It takes time to get used to that.
 
I used GT5 some years ago to learn te Norsdchleife. I truly learnt all the blind turns and the distance between them. The main difference is that in a straight line in game you feel relaxed and with time to think about next corner. IRL the straight line is still stressing, with your heart rate high, and the extreme sense of speed compared with the game, makes the longest straight feel short. There is no time for relax IRL. @Lawndart explained this kind of feelings precisely. He made a great job in this sense.

Back to topic... As I said, I learn't the corners, but once there I had a new beginning. GT is a great guide to get used to the circuit but it surely can't replace the real experience learning the track. Despite being very precise the recreation of every inch of the circuit in game, once there you find different kinds of tarmac, pretty small bumps, irregularities on the surface, different seasons, temperatures, dust or moisture, and a long etcetera that is impossible to find in game. Life is unpredictable.

I also have been in Spa, but only as an spectator, and the feeling is the same regarding to the lack of steepness recalled for someone before. Eau rouge in real life is impressive. In game is just a hill. The same applies to the whole Nürburgring.

Out there should be more skilled real life drivers (like @Lawndart did or the GTAcademy winners could) that could explain the differences far more better than me.
 
hi, i couldn't experience the up's and down's at Nordschleife (+-300m / up to 18%) in gt5 ... and then, on the real track, i looked very surprised :-O r.
edit: same with the real size of the curbs ...
 
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IBZ6L20VT
I also have been in Spa, but only as an spectator, and the feeling is the same regarding to the lack of steepness recalled for someone before. Eau rouge in real life is impressive. In game is just a hill. The same applies to the whole Nürburgring.
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Can't agree. When I see a 2D representation I know it to be such, and typically compensate. Eau de Rouge is something I would not expect to see on roads often if at all. Or the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, looks pretty daunting eg. on replays indeed. Of course, if there's no time to imagine the simulated environment the game can't really help with that. Suggest comfort tyres.
 
I've been to a track day up here in MN, perception of speed is a bit understated in game. And of course g forces as well as bumps.
 
Thematic
Can't agree. When I see a 2D representation I know it to be such, and typically compensate. Eau de Rouge is something I would not expect to see on roads often if at all. Or the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, looks pretty daunting eg. on replays indeed. Of course, if there's no time to imagine the simulated environment the game can't really help with that. Suggest comfort tyres.
Click to expand...

The game is a 3D representation. It should left the same feeling in you that the real life does. That's the intention of the developers. In GT6 this doesn't happen with Eau Rouge, for instance. So, your suggestion is to replace the lack of realism in the feeling of the real steepness with imagination and comfort tires... I usually play with the stock tires of the cars and as I said, the game should provide you a "real" environment to play, or at least, something that makes you feel there.
 
I haven't driven high speeds on any of the in-game tracks
Only travelling around bathurst at it's terribly slow 60km/h limit, you just don;t get the feeling of how steep some parts of the track are, The Cutting and The Dipper especially

but from experiencing track-work in my own cars on a local circuit, and even just normal day to day driving, it's simply that feeling through your butt and the G-forces that you cannot replicate without being strapped into a full-force simulator.
 
Nürburgring is very impressive the first time you drive it in reallife. I didn't expect the track to be that wide, some corners can be tricky (the part after Adenauer-Forst and Brünnchen) But it gets more fun after each lap.
The elevation drop at Pflanzgarten is :crazy: didn't expect that. Karussell is fun!

Then there are the other factors, like the mental part. Do you want to drive on the limit and maybe crash your car?
Another factor is that not all people drive the same car, on touristenfahrt there are always a few people that are driving like madmen in a $5000 car. Or the Porsche GT3 RS/BMW M3 GTS drivers that pass you like pro's. You always have to be on the lookout for different things that might happen.

A big difference is that my comfort tyres are way better then those in GT6 :D, but maybe it's because I don't take the risks like in GT6.
 
Loving this thread, But I don't have anything to add as the closest thing I've experienced is taking on and off ramps going outside to inside to out and using a lot of imagination. ha
 
That sound exciting. How much does it cost to run 1 lap in there? I really want to travel to Germany just to drive on this track lol. This is my dream :D

T_Exige
Nürburgring is very impressive the first time you drive it in reallife. I didn't expect the track to be that wide, some corners can be tricky (the part after Adenauer-Forst and Brünnchen) But it gets more fun after each lap.
The elevation drop at Pflanzgarten is :crazy: didn't expect that. Karussell is fun!

Then there are the other factors, like the mental part. Do you want to drive on the limit and maybe crash your car?
Another factor is that not all people drive the same car, on touristenfahrt there are always a few people that are driving like madmen in a $5000 car. Or the Porsche GT3 RS/BMW M3 GTS drivers that pass you like pro's. You always have to be on the lookout for different things that might happen.

A big difference is that my comfort tyres are way better then those in GT6 :D, but maybe it's because I don't take the risks like in GT6.
Click to expand...
 
FSportIS
That sound exciting. How much does it cost to run 1 lap in there? I really want to travel to Germany just to drive on this track lol. This is my dream :D
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When I was there in 11' I believe it was 26 euro per lap.

It was pouring down rain when I ran it so I got some "insurance" by way of taking Andy Carlile with me, he is the current lap record holder on a motorcycle on the ring. Look him up for some insane vids.

He took me on 3-4 different wet lines on the track and we managed lap times close to 10 minutes bridge to gantry. Afterwards he said the track should have closed when its that wet...

It was a bucket list item that got added right back to the list...

The best program they have going now is with Sabine, and during a VLN race weekend. In addition to her taking care of your accommodations, rentals, track instruction, she'll take you out with her during practice laps of a real race.
 
Damn, that is exciting, fun and affordable. 26 euro per lap is definitely worth it which gives you about 7-10 minutes of seat time and which offers so much more value than 1 whole autocross session alone (60 seconds or so for 12 runs) that cost average 85 dollars in US and it is not even a track.

I assume you live in US based on your avatar. How did you manage to ship your car there? Or how much did you rent their cars and the insurance? I can't imagine driving that track in the rain, that must be a crazy thrill and adventure. I would not do it in rain for the first time lol. Do you mind sharing me more with the program, cost, and all the logistics via PM?

I have read couple of your posts and you seem to have a lot of real racing experience. Props to you man! I guess you have visited my local Willow Springs, Speed Venture @ Fontana, Mazda Leguna Secu Raceway right?
 
I think the two main things that are different re real life vs sim and are insurmountable are the g-forces inflicted on you and the threat of physical harm. I am much braver in a sim then real life racing and I have the broken bones and 24/7 pain from the last nearly 3 decades to remind of that daily :)
 
FSportIS
Damn, that is exciting, fun and affordable. 26 euro per lap is definitely worth it which gives you about 7-10 minutes of seat time and which offers so much more value than 1 whole autocross session alone (60 seconds or so for 12 runs) that cost average 85 dollars in US and it is not even a track.

I assume you live in US based on your avatar. How did you manage to ship your car there? Or how much did you rent their cars and the insurance? I can't imagine driving that track in the rain, that must be a crazy thrill and adventure. I would not do it in rain for the first time lol. Do you mind sharing me more with the program, cost, and all the logistics via PM?

I have read couple of your posts and you seem to have a lot of real racing experience. Props to you man! I guess you have visited my local Willow Springs, Speed Venture @ Fontana, Mazda Leguna Secu Raceway right?
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I rented a Clio RS 200 from RSR, there was a 24h VLN Historic race and the only opening was for 2 hours on Sunday before a manufacturer had the track reserved... It only rained during that window (irony)... Since it was over a weekend between legs of a business trip between Paris and Frankfurt, it was the only way to do it... I tipped Andy 70 Euro for his time...

It was a life experience, its hard to explain but just arriving at the ring you're overcome with a sensation of racing and all the history of it... there is an atmosphere that is pure autosport, not like a manufactured attraction in the US with lots of marketing... When you get there you just know you have arrived... Its quite spiritual in some sense... It's one of those rare times in life where its MUCH better than you would expect and imagine, but it's also very dangerous and no one pretends it's not... But its universally expected and not something that would ever be allowed in the US. And you learn things there like the fact that the government never makes official statements about the casualties but locals assume its one to two a month... and thats deaths, not just injuries... And no one looks at you like a tourist, they have a genuine curiosity about you but don't really ask. Even if you didn't run the track, just being there is worth it... If you're even thinking of doing it, I would wholeheartedly encourage you to. You don't need to be a racer or even know much about cars... Just strolling through the ups and downs and putting your wheels on the rumble strips would be a joy... Though I never got to strole... Andy kept me at full attention... Even forcing me to slide a few times to check my own pucher factor... and teach me the strange things about the ring and why there are so many accidents, and most because you're suppose to do the opposite of your intuition... But thats a longer story.

Logistics based on CA US:
  • Flight to Frankfurt - 1500
  • Rental car from Airport to Nurburg (Peugeot RCZ) - 180 3 days (major dispute with the company thinking I took it on the ring... took a year to resolve)
  • Hotel 2 nights - 240
  • Track car (Clio Renault RS) - Like 400 with insurance and it was for all day but I only had 2 hours.
  • Andy Tip - 70
  • Suvineries - 300
Total about - 2500? with food and beers... And that was a real ad hawk approach... No real planning at all. When I do it again I'll probably spend a lot more... But you could likely do it for less.

I've turned hundreds of laps at Willow, I really liked that track... I've left my share of leather and burnt flesh on that tarmac... Willow and I have a "complicated" relationship... She loves me to stroke all her curves but not turn 5... Bitch bites me there more times than I care to remember...

My avatar pic is from a race win I had at Laguna Seca in June 2013'... I know Laguna very well and she has been good to me but she is a bit boring, its just straights and turns, very traditional, never really getting the tires hot enough to get grippy in a momentum based car... You get into the marbles and those damn things are stuck on your tires the rest of the race... After you go down the corkscrew a few times, find the ribbon on the tree, it's literally requires no thinking beyond when to get back on the throttle... You do it going down you'll slide wide, wait 3 tenths of a second and nail it you'll settle in nicely and start setting up turn 9... The trick with Laguna and knowing your fast is if you aim for the large red sausages but just slide past them... You can't be any faster than that... Do it too slow and you're car looses a wheel...
 
@Lawndart I greatly appreciate your helpful and informative reply. That detailed break down of the cost, and logistics is so great and I know exactly what to expect. How did you get to know great Andy lol? That is amazing. Also, do you have any onboard video of your Nurburgring run?

Similar to you, I'm also a big car enthusiast but also a big Lexus fan. I drove IS250 daily and IS350 for autocross and track. Both cars mostly have handling mods such as Eibach spring/Bilstein shocks/FSport swaybar/lightweight TSW wheel/Hookook v12 summer tire upgrades with some for-show mods such as intake/exhaust/body kits. The IS350 can be a straight line beast due to its aggressive transmission gearing but its heaviness is holding it back as being agile and flexible as a Porsche or Miata or S2k. I'm only doing it as a hobby. I would think you are way more competitive than I am lol. Willow to me is pretty fun as it also favors high-horse power cars which i like. However, there are couple blind spots that can get tricky and also the turn 5, being careless here can be deadly lol. The dirts also can get into the way too. The good news is I heard that they are modernizing the pavement and all that for this track soon.

I like Laguna Seca that it is set up somehow for car to slide around. After a while, that rhythm just sync in automatically. This is also the track I have read, watched and experienced training on. Skip Barber book and training for the win!!! Like you said, hitting that red sausage gives better time. Did you do the Skip Barber training through book and their 1 day event too back in the day?
 
Only track that's in GT6 that I've been to is Spa, but only as a spectator. And when standing at the top of Raidillion, looking down the hill it's a real vertigo inducing sight.. It kinda scared me, even just standing there...
 
FSportIS
Damn, that is exciting, fun and affordable. 26 euro per lap is definitely worth it which gives you about 7-10 minutes of seat time and which offers so much more value than 1 whole autocross session alone (60 seconds or so for 12 runs) that cost average 85 dollars in US and it is not even a track.

I assume you live in US based on your avatar. How did you manage to ship your car there? Or how much did you rent their cars and the insurance? I can't imagine driving that track in the rain, that must be a crazy thrill and adventure. I would not do it in rain for the first time lol. Do you mind sharing me more with the program, cost, and all the logistics via PM?

I have read couple of your posts and you seem to have a lot of real racing experience. Props to you man! I guess you have visited my local Willow Springs, Speed Venture @ Fontana, Mazda Leguna Secu Raceway right?
Click to expand...

This thread:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-the-nordschleife.302221/page-18#post-9948524

Is full of information regarding the Nordschleife. For more info about touristenfahrten lap prices go to www.nuerburgring.de. For info about renting a car for the Ring there are a lot of options. For example, 4 laps with everything included with a GT86 will cost you 489€. Just Google a little bit and you'll find multiple rentals. ;)
 
FSportIS
@Lawndart I greatly appreciate your helpful and informative reply. That detailed break down of the cost, and logistics is so great and I know exactly what to expect. How did you get to know great Andy lol? That is amazing. Also, do you have any onboard video of your Nurburgring run?

Similar to you, I'm also a big car enthusiast but also a big Lexus fan. I drove IS250 daily and IS350 for autocross and track. Both cars mostly have handling mods such as Eibach spring/Bilstein shocks/FSport swaybar/lightweight TSW wheel/Hookook v12 summer tire upgrades with some for-show mods such as intake/exhaust/body kits. The IS350 can be a straight line beast due to its aggressive transmission gearing but its heaviness is holding it back as being agile and flexible as a Porsche or Miata or S2k. I'm only doing it as a hobby. I would think you are way more competitive than I am lol. Willow to me is pretty fun as it also favors high-horse power cars which i like. However, there are couple blind spots that can get tricky and also the turn 5, being careless here can be deadly lol. The dirts also can get into the way too. The good news is I heard that they are modernizing the pavement and all that for this track soon.

I like Laguna Seca that it is set up somehow for car to slide around. After a while, that rhythm just sync in automatically. This is also the track I have read, watched and experienced training on. Skip Barber book and training for the win!!! Like you said, hitting that red sausage gives better time. Did you do the Skip Barber training through book and their 1 day event too back in the day?
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Skip is an outstanding school but I've not done it, I went through SCCA then got sponsored for my Grand-Am license (prior to Tudor) as I was suppose to run in the Daytona continental race last January. It fell through though... Or rather a sponsor failed to commit.

If you want to experience real racing for cheap and get a lot of seat time I recomend LeMons and chump car... Seats can be bought for 500-1000, no traing required. I run them a lot for the cheap track time... But is very aggressive racing and contact will happen...

TT is a good experience and teaches car handling but not much in the way of race craft. Race craft to me is the most enjoyable part.

There are a few points I explain to every new driver. A) There are fast drivers that aren't good racers and B) there are good racers that aren't fast drivers. The objective isn't always being the fastest, it's denying the other guy the fastest line.

IBZ6L20VT
This thread:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-the-nordschleife.302221/page-18#post-9948524

Is full of information regarding the Nordschleife. For more info about touristenfahrten lap prices go to www.nuerburgring.de. For info about renting a car for the Ring there are a lot of options. For example, 4 laps with everything included with a GT86 will cost you 489€. Just Google a little bit and you'll find multiple rentals. ;)
Click to expand...
Yes, this is a very good thread with very current information. I can't read it myself as I makes me want to go back sooner than I should... Going to the ring is so much easier now than just a few years ago, there are lots of packages and guides now.

I met Andy through Martin, the guy who owns the hotel at the base of the castle. He was referred to me as "a starving ring guy" and at the time held the record for fasted bike lap with a GSX R 600... His later R1 lap was only 7 seconds faster... So he hold the top 2 spots.

The ring is a small place and "ring heroes" are only really heroes to us :) racing has fallen well out of the main stream but is retuning.
 
BICDRIVER49
I think its very close to reality. You just don't quite grasp the actual elevation changes in the game. its quite shocking in real life. two examples of this are the downhill after the corkscrew at Laguna Seca and Paddock hill bend at Brands Hatch.
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Yo the GT Academy champ!!! It would be interesting if you share more of the differences and similarities between game and real life racing since you actually learned a lot from GT to become actual real racer who won some professional races. Please elaborate more when your time allows.
 
I've driven Mount Panorama, albeit not at race speed, but it's still valid if we're talking about accuracy. Like some have said, the biggest difference from in-game compared to real life is the perception of elevation, particularly coming through the down hill esses. Not saying PD's rendition of the circuit is inaccurate (quite the opposite), you'll just never be able to get that same feeling of the road just dropping away and taking your stomach with it, or your ears popping on the way up through The Cutting. Circuit width is another thing, although I suppose that's due to a combination the perspective of the in-game "camera" (I use the "bumper" camera) and the relatively small size of my TV since it looks fine from third person perspective and in photomode. It's actually quite surprising how wide the circuit is in some sections, though not to the extent of most modern Grand Prix circuits.
 
Some nice stories here.
Spa is fun too, but it is more "safe" and you have to book via a trackday or a dealer trackday which is around 200-300 euro's, it depends on the organisation. (ofc. You can do way more laps)

I do prefer the Nürburgring because of the many tourists from all over the world, sometimes you see prototypes or very rare cars like a Veritas RSIII / Wiesmann MF5 GT etc. The parking and the start/exit is always fun, lots of people taking pictures and different stories 👍, towing truck with crashed cars ..., the famous gasstation.
The F1 track hosts many events in the summer, so you can combine an event with a few laps.

@FSportIS 1 lap is 27 euro i think, 4 for 100, ...
 

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