Red Bull Deemed Illegal | Update: More illegal RB8 parts? See post 36

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http://planetf1.com/driver/3213/7791932/-Red-Bull-floor-declared-illegal-

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/279438/red-bull-floor-declared-illegal-by-fia/



From Planetf1.com:

Hours after Christian Horner claimed the FIA's upcoming ruling on his RB8's hole would declare it legal, it has reportedly done just the opposite.
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"The rules are written in such a way that they are open to interpretation and our interpretation of that particular rule was accepted by the scrutineers, by the technical delegate and the other teams got a little bit agitated," he told Sky Sports F1 on Friday evening.

"But we were always confident that our car complied fully with the regulations. I think the regulation is quite a grey area, and I think a clarification will come out before Montreal that will tidy it up through a technical directive."

The ruling came down on Saturday and will result in Red Bull having to remove the hole from their RB8's floor ahead of next weekend's Canadian GP as motorsport's governing body considers it "implicit that fully enclosed holes may not be located" in front of the rear wheels.
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Should they get a harsh penalty for it? Were they at an unfair advantage?


Hamilton got stripped of pole for a small regulation, where as this is huge in comparison but what do you think?


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EDIT: 24th June 2012


More potentially illegal parts on the RB8?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7257795#post7257795
 
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Couldn't find a thread on it... but here we can discuss it, where as that thread is for the F1 itself.
 
:lol: @ C-zeta.

This is a specific event, not a general discussion of the Monaco GP or a generalized discussion regarding racing tech.
This thread is obviously for the specific purpose of discussing the redbull car and the illegal (or legal) floor design.

Leave the mod work to the mods.

That said, I think they got off light.
 
And still not a single mention of it on Autosport or the official F1 website. That article was posted over five hours ago. As I have said in other threads, this website either has an inside source (which is getting less likely with every passing minute that other sites aren't reporting it) or they made it up.
 
Meh, just another tiny part protested by other teams. Part is removed and we all move on. I don't really feel like this is worth the attention its getting, seems like people are talking about it purely because its being argued by the teams - there doesn't appear to be much controversey in it and the performance gains appear to be fairly small.
I'm sure there will be further parts removed and argued over the season and next year. Red Bull will do the same thing to the other teams given half a chance. All part of the game.

This year has been pretty quiet on the potentially-illegal front. Before we had exhaust blown diffusers, f-ducts, double-deck-diffusers, spygate, etc. This year no one seems to have done anything particularly out of the ordinary apart from the blown-front wing on the Mercedes. And that seems to have blown over a fair bit.
 
I think a lot of people are missing the point here. All teams cars are inspected by FIA scrutineers before and after every event. This floor design was inspected and passed as legal before and after the Monaco qualifying and race. Therefore at that time, it was deemed legal. With the questioning from the other teams, the FIA has once again inspected the RB8 and has now decided that the floor design is illegal.
The FIA can't take points away from RB that have already been given based on a floor design which was at the time declared legal. This mistake is the fault of the FIA and not (directly) the fault of Red Bull. All the other teams were doing were having the FIA clarify their interpretation, for the reasons of (a) having the RB solution banned, and/or (b) determining that yes it really is legal, so they may go ahead and build their own.
This toeing the line of the rulebook is standard procedure for all F1 teams, don't be fooled into thinking that if any of the other teams thought up a brilliant idea to exploit the rules that they wouldn't do it.
 
I believe championships are usually won by cars which bend the rules slightly :sly:

Still, I find it odd how such small components/design differences can affect the performance of the car enough to have other teams complain :boggled:
 
zedextreme8177
I believe championships are usually won by cars which bend the rules slightly :sly:

Still, I find it odd how such small components/design differences can affect the performance of the car enough to have other teams complain :boggled:
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Its not always to slow the other car down but to force the other team to divert resources not only making sure their design is legal but to also force them to spend money replacing the part. Also possibly to divert attention from the protesting team's car.

Politics ya see.
 
DaxCobra
Hamilton got stripped of pole for a small regulation, where as this is huge in comparison but what do you think?
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Hamilton was stripped of his pole for violating a very specific rule written precisely to stop people from under fueling their car during qualifying. A rule that was written years ago when McLaren and Hamilton did the very same thing.

The RB8 floor is being deemed illegal in a rule clarification in much the same way that the double diffuser was deemed illegal last season... The FIA allowed it in Monaco because the rules were unclear about it, but now they're enforcing a stricter interpretation of the rules.

Sucks for Red Bull.

-

This topic is already being covered in the Monaco threa and the 2012 Mechanics-something-something thread, but since it is not a Monaco specific topic and the bits-n-pieces thread is rather broad, having this separate is not an issue.
 
Well if RB suffers a bit I say let it be, while the drivers' side of the championship is really heated up, RB's starting to pull away in the manufacturer's fight. I don't think the re-design will substantially affect their performance but if it does, it won't be a season killer, that's pulling a long bow.
 
meh, theyll just do as ferrari and others and add a super thin cut to the outside. Thusit stops being a hole and is now just sculpted
 
DaxCobra
Should they get a harsh penalty for it? Were they at an unfair advantage?
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They won't get a penalty for it. The parts are only illegal from the moment the FIA declares them to be illegal. If they were used before that, there is nothing that the FIA can - or will - do about it.
 
A close up shot of the offending Aft-hole:


9w7fa.jpg
 
How much of an advantage do you think it was giving them, a tenth per lap or was it less significant than that?
 
Not a tenth of a lap, a tenth of a second...

And yeah, that's being generous. I doubt we'll witness any noticeable difference in pace from them. But at the same time, the fact that this is enough of a thing for Mercedes, Ferrari and good old McLaren to get up in arms over is pretty telling of the tolerances involved in F1.
 
Yeah I know, it sounded like Earth was thinking of a tenth of a whole lap of around 75-80 seconds. Which is 8 seconds.

But you're saying a tenth of a second, which is one-tenth of... a second.

Anyway, I did a quick little mock-up of the intense (hack job) solution that RB must go through in order to legalize the glory hole.

UjjzT.jpg


Now they'll probably end up doing something more F1 like and less serf like I did. I imagine they'll reposition that little spoiler, maybe make it higher to reduce the chance of negative pressure seeping out.
 
Wardez
Yeah I know, it sounded like Earth was thinking of a tenth of a whole lap of around 75-80 seconds. Which is 8 seconds.

But you're saying a tenth of a second, which is one-tenth of... a second.

Anyway, I did a quick little mock-up of the intense (hack job) solution that RB must go through in order to legalize the glory hole.

UjjzT.jpg


Now they'll probably end up doing something more F1 like and less serf like I did. I imagine they'll reposition that little spoiler, maybe make it higher to reduce the chance of negative pressure seeping out.
Click to expand...

As hack jobish as you think it is...Thats exactly the solution that some of the other teams are currently running...I know the Sauber has this identical solution on it.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2012/869/967.html
 
Bobert power
Does this mean an RB8+ or RB8-2?
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No. It just means they change one part on the floor.

The thread title is misleading. It implies the entire car is illegal, when the issue is limited to one hole in the floor in front of the rear wheels.
 
What Earth meant I'm sure was: 0.10 secs * 78 laps = 7.8 seconds

@prisonermonkeys
Huh? even only one small hole but it IS an illegal car now.
 
Dodzzz
What Earth meant I'm sure was: 0.10 secs * 78 laps = 7.8 seconds

@prisonermonkeys
Huh? even only one small hole but it IS an illegal car now.
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That makes more sense regarding the 8 second thing 👍

And as far as the car being illegal, here's the thing. I only really consider the entire car to be illegal if the part in question is integral to the entire package of the vehicle, so if it was something like the suspension layout or a big part of the body, where it neccesitates a huge re-design, that's an illegal car.

The 88 Lotus, was an illegal car. The Sauber that was disqualified after Australia in 2011 for having its wing size out of spec and this Red Bull having a hole that was too hole-y, were illegal parts.
 
That's like suggesting that a girl can be only slightly pregnant!

Illegal part of car equals illegal car.
 

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