Regulars vs Noobs or life vs no life

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hachi Roku
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As a fan of the GT series who is enjoying gt4 very much and occaisonally vists this site for information or to read peoples opinions and observations about the game, I have noticed a worrying division arising between 2 distinct groups of forums users.

The first group is who I would call the forum regulars,with elaborate avatars and sigs, most of whom seem to have broadband and spend as much time here as possible (some even while at work, which is confusing to me). These people see the forums as a community and probably as a place to meet up with their like minded friends, they also seem to have read every previous post in the forums.

The second group is the casual users who would log on to ask questions and advice about the game, sometimes also adding their opinions to debates and such.

The problem is that the regulars will allow no more discussion on topics which have already been discussed, even though the conclusions reached in the threads are more often than not wrong and totally misleading. I have seen people who have reached scientific and correct conclusion being shouted down because a previuos thread disgrees or misses the post altogther.

Why is it that the moderators ultimate goal seems to be the stagnation of the forums with no new threads being posted apart from the obligitory "look at me" video and photo threads.

I want to see some meaningfull disscussion!! this may require the re disscussion of old topics when new sources of information can be found or a new way of approaching the problem: this forum is not the definitave guide to cars.

So for all those forum regulars fond of telling people to use the search feature how about from now on you just ignore the posts you have no interest in and if someone else wants to answer they can (after all, don't you have anything better to do than read a question you think you already know the answer and have no intention of answering). I would say the same to moderators: if the topic has already been discussed just leave it and if no-one is interested it will soon be spammed down the page out of sight. I find it ridiculous to lock a thread which is actually getting the most posts (although I have no objections to deleting threads that have degenerated to name calling).

I urge people who reply to this thread in one of two ways: Either state that you are a forum user who is irritated by people who fail to search
or: state that you are a forum user who is irritated by people posting nothing but "use the search feature" in response to every thread.

I think the result will be that there are more casual users than regulars.
 
I don't think that it's as balnk and white as you're making out. It is intensely frustrating to have to answer the same questions over and over as each new member comes in with the same query. It's also frustrating to have the "Use the Search button" door slammed in your face when you've asked a simple question.

The staff here at GTP try to lead by encouragement and example. Encouraging people to seek out the answer for themselves, and then ask a question if their searches did not yield full satisfaction. You'll only see very rare occurrences of a Moderator slamming the Search door, and then only with people causing a persistent nuisance, or asking a question for which the exact answer is in one of the sticky threads.

I would prefer people to try to fend for themselves before requesting spoon-feeding. I guess that's your option 1.
 
Hachi Roku
I urge people who reply to this thread in one of two ways: Either state that you are a forum user who is irritated by people who fail to search
or: state that you are a forum user who is irritated by people posting nothing but "use the search feature" in response to every thread.

I'm not irritated at all, just slightly amused as always. It's just funny when people complain about the very existence of a threat. I mean Jesus Chrysler, you wouldn’t want to strain your arm by scrolling past it.
 
Yeah... everytime a person makes a thread that has been discussed... it just loses bandwidth and money for Jordan. The way I see it, it isn't cheap either. We have over 70,000 users. Imagine if every one did this... the server would indefinitely explode. not flamin or anything, I understand what you are saying. But, you have to understand what I am saying too. Ya know what I mean?

EDIT
Quick_Nick
I'm not irritated at all, just slightly amused as always. It's just funny when people complain about the very existence of a threat. I mean Jesus Chrysler, you wouldn’t want to strain your arm by scrolling past it.

Exactly.
 
The problem is that the regulars will allow no more discussion on topics which have already been discussed, even though the conclusions reached in the threads are more often than not wrong and totally misleading. I have seen people who have reached scientific and correct conclusion being shouted down because a previuos thread disgrees or misses the post altogther.

Well obviously. We are always right, and newbs are always wrong. Thats just the way life is. :rolleyes:

Also 1+3=10. Because I say it is and I'm a regular.

PS: You have provided no evidence of people getting slapped down even when they are "scientifically correct", or "often wrong conclusions in regulars thread". Ergo, it is hard to really take what you are saying very seriously. Although we still listen of course ;)
 
Mike Rotch
Well obviously. We are always right, and newbs are always wrong. Thats just the way life is. :rolleyes:

Also 1+3=10. Because I say it is and I'm a regular.

PS: You have provided no evidence of people getting slapped down even when they are "scientifically correct", or "often wrong conclusions in regulars thread". Ergo, it is hard to really take what you are saying very seriously. Although we still listen of course ;)

Harharhar... Ohh man - You just made my day Mike - AWESOME ! :lol:
 
Race Idiot
I wish the moderators weren't such haterz. :(

Well if I had a life I would.

We are not impressed!
weaselangry.jpg
 
It is a moderator's job to ensure that GTP operates efficiently, so that all users, casual or regular, can get to the information that they need to see with a minimum amount of fuss.

The simple answer is that redundant threads are not efficient. If you thought about it for minute, the reason we encourage searching is very obvious.

GTP gets thousands of visitors every day. I don't have the exact numbers, but let's say on an average day, we get 2,000 people dropping by. Not everyone posts or even registers. BUT if even just 5% of those visitors started posting redundant questions, that's 100 new threads on stuff that has already been answered.

So do the math: the GT4 forum can display (minus the stickies) 25 subjects a page. You would have to browse through 4 pages of threads before you have any chance of reading anything new or noteworthy.

So now, 100 people have made the forum at best, bothersome or at worst, worthless for 1900 others who may or may not have any interest in what those 100 had to say, but had to scroll through everything just to find what they are looking for. And that's just one day. It wouldn't take long for this to kill any value GTP had for anyone.

Now is it clear why search is important?

P.S. I think you should rethink the wisdom of your thread title.


M
 
Is that you Mike ?....

If I had a pet ferret. Thats what he'd look like. I'd call him Charlie and make him wear a beanie with a Nike logo on it.

Oh, to to elaborate on what i said earlier. Hachi, you made it seem like it is every regular members goal to slap newb members who ask questions; that is wholly false, and my point is that you have made that statement without any evidence 👍
 
I'm going to weigh in on the side of "irritated by people who won't search". Big surprise there.

As several people have stated, a large number of repeat threads is very inefficient. I've seen threads on the same subject posted less than an inch apart on the forum index - and frankly, that's inexcusable. If people are unwilling to make even the slightest effort to help themselves, I don't understand why they should feel they have a right to everyone else's help.

Also, what's the point in rehashing a discussion multiple times? If you have something to add, or you'd like to take exception to the original discussion, by all means, please do so. But is there a point in having 5 or 10 separate topics on how to beat the Polyphony Digital Cup or, even better, the uselessly-generic "what's the best car"?

You'll notice that almost no one jumps on a new user who posts "I tried searching, but..." unless the person obviously did not try searching in any real way. The people who get lambasted are the ones who post the absolutely most common questions as if they were the first person who ever thought of it. It really doesn't take much brain power or effort to avoid putting yourself in that situation.

Casual user or not, it comes down to courtesy towards the people of whom you are asking a favor. In a city full of big street signs, would you walk around looking at the sidewalk and just expect every person you bumped into to direct you to your destination?

You'll note that people who make the effort to help themselves are in fact treated with much more courtesy than those who don't. And perhaps those who don't make the effort should learn something from the experience.
 
One good example of this is in the GT3 forum.

I remember at one point we'd get a 'How I do pro FF race' thread at least once every few weeks. It got incredibly tedious after a while. So most people who regularly attended the board, just jumped on the poster and whinged at them to search first.
 
Race Idiot
One good example of this is in the GT3 forum.

I remember at one point we'd get a 'How I do pro FF race' thread at least once every few weeks. It got incredibly tedious after a while.

Yep - Even after I did a write-up on it.. I mean, if I can figure out how to do it... Sheesh...
 
I think anywhere you go, this debate "regulars vs. n00bs" applies. Here it just has the "search" button. Elsewhere it may be, "why do you use that cruddy SMG? Only n00bs use that!" or something. Once you get past the whole "n00b" phase, the community is no different from that of an offline one at say a golf resort or whatever. Sure, there are those bad apples, but don't let it spoil the bunch as they say. :)
 
Hachi Roku
The problem is that the regulars will allow no more discussion on topics which have already been discussed

Imagine, if you will, going into a library.


In the library are hundreds - nay, thousands - of books. They're listed by category, alphabetically by title within the category and labelled according to the Dewey Decimal System, so finding a specific book isn't that hard with a little effort.


Now, imagine you are the librarian and you have six HUNDRED people every day coming in and shouting:

"WHERE CAN I FIND THE KAMA SUTRA?! I REALLY WANT THE KAMA SUTRA?! WHY CAN'T I FIND THE KAMA SUTRA!? THIS PLACE SUCKS!"

two inches from your face.

Wouldn't it get old awfully fast?


GTPlanet helps those who help themselves. The Search button is really rather good if you have your frontal lobes screwed in (as with Dewey) and has the benefit that you can find things which, if they aren't exactly what you want to know, you can contribute to and look intelligent by bringing a festering topic to life with a fresh point of view.
 
I'd regard myself as a so called "search nazi" (which has nothing to do with me being German! :scared: ), telling people to search over and over again. The thing is that the search feature is one of the most powerful instruments in a forum, if you know how to handle it and have a little bit of time on your hands. The better you are at searching, the less time you need. Unfortunately, most of the newbies have no clue about searching and just post their question somewhere right away or even open a thread for it.

But if the mods and users would not tell them to search first, we'd have hundreds of threads and repeating questions a day, just like M-Spec said. The thing is that the more "trash" you have in the forum, the harder it is to find the info you're looking for. So if you just let the people ask away, it will get worse, and after some time there'll be a deadlock.

Sometimes I can understand some of the newbies, cause if you're honest with yourself, you sometimes are tempted to open a thread in a forum you've just stumbled over, don't you? It's so easy to ask your one question right away, cause you just wanna hear the answer and solve your problem. But instead, people start to shout at you pointing at the search function. The point of view is so different if you're standing on the other side, if you know what I mean. :sly:

Cheers,
the Interceptor
 
inferno
And whats even MORE, even more interesting is that when I click it I get NO results.
Thats interesting. It was turning up 23 for me like 20 minutes ago and now its turning up nothing.
 
VTGT07
Thats interesting. It was turning up 23 for me like 20 minutes ago and now its turning up nothing.
That link Suxx... And s0 does this palce... weher can I find t3h drftazzh ?
 
And I'll revise my post. When I did a search across the entire site for "Nitto" in titles only, I came back with 97. Of which 44 are not recycled. 53 are repeat threads. That's over a 50% rejection on the threads.

AO
 
Hachi Roku
I want to see some meaningfull disscussion!! this may require the re disscussion of old topics when new sources of information can be found or a new way of approaching the problem: this forum is not the definitave guide to cars.

Here's an idea: Search first, to see if your topic comes up. If it does, check around the thread, to see if your point has been discussed, and use that thread to further discuss it, or to add another point of view. Even if it's an old thread, it just proves you know how to use a message board.

If it's not been discussed, or if you found something, but it didn't exactly relate to your subject, then create a new thread.

Geeze, how hard is that? Seems we have to explain how the internet works to everyone... The search feature isn't there as an excuse for us moderators to piss you off, it's a tool that is to your disposition, to help you work your way around the website. Does that mean to search everytime you want to post something? No, but considering GT4's been out for what, 2 months in North America, it's still a good idea. Considering the speed at which the internet grows, and the size of this community, there's always a good chance something's been posted up before, or discussed thoroughly.
 
Adding to the meaningful discussion...

Alright, I am a "n00b" to posting here, but I have been a lurker in many forums, including this one, for years (some might call me a bandwidth vaccuum, but I really just like to browse. Sorry.). When I first go to a forum for answers, I LOOK for answers. I don't just waltz into the place and start demanding answers. Maybe it would help if people would just stop and look around first.

<mindless babbling>
I think that this is an unfortunate thing as it is a natural impulse when you are in the middle of a game and need an answer, sitting all alone in front of your tv to just yell out for help. Unfortunately, since you are all alone, in front of your tv, there is nobody to answer back. So what do you do? You pause the race you are in, or let it sit on a menu screen, or god gorbid sit in the garage with that weird elevator music cycling endlessly, and go tap into the internet. The Oracle of All (Google, or whatever you use) leads you to Forum X. Well, you have done so much work already by putting down the game for five minutes that it will kill you to look for anything else. So what do you do? You start a new post, demanding (or sometimes begging, or actually even asking) for an answer. If only people would take a breath and realize that you can stop, look, and actually find your answer 99% of the time, things would be so much easier. But then again, we are humans and that pesky human nature always drives us to do the improper thing at the most inopportune time.

I gotta tell you, even as a lurker, 500 posts of "Is Ferrari in the game?" or "Is the pink Vitz still da bomb?" really irked me. The point of time between release of GT4 in Japan and worldwide release was really crazy around here. Before the change (B.C.) I was getting seriously angry with all of the repitition of posts and the same (sometimes incorrect) answers. And I wasn't even a registered member at that point! On retrospect, maybe that IS what made me a member...
</mindless babbling>

Long story short, I am glad the mods took control. It is just a natural reaction that you have to bring out the riot police when the mob gets unruly. Or else, the forum gets torn down by the frenzied crowds and "oops!", no more forum to get my super-dooper Sauber tuning settings.

Goodness, I ranted a bit and I haven't even been a member here long enough to be cranky. Must be time for my nap. :)
 
if only a third of the new guys around here had the maturity of silver eclipse, this forum would be a better place :)
 
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