Restrict cars yourself...

[Sum1s2pid]

I was actually quite proud of myself last night coming in 5th out of 10 in a 2 lap race with super cars only on the Nurburgring beating all the dead stock cars and a couple slightly modded ones in a stock 458. Yeah its not a win, but at least the car didn't cost me a half a mil and still not be a race car.

That sounds like a win to me. Good job!

👍

 

[Destinkeys]

What upsets me most is that we are turning the ire for this situation on each other, rather than putting it squarely on PD's shoulders. I have never played a game before that allowed you to make a mockery of the game simply because the game designers were so lazy, they couldn't even be bothered to put in some basic rules.

In Shift, you can't enter a Zonda into a race for Vitz's. You can't enter a Works racer into a race for stock cars. You can't enter a car with triple the horsepower into a race at all. You upgrade your car against the AI, they upgrade too.

And, you know what? The game is MUCH better for it. And nobody complains.

I don't get it, I really don't. The Shift forums are NOT full of whiners complaining that they can't beat the game, that it is somehow their RIGHT (after all, they payed for the game, didn't they? ) to be able to triple the horsepower on just THEIR car. I never realized what a user base full of people with absolutely NO INTEREST in racing the GT series had...

All the fanboys want to diss Shift as arcade-y. But I NEVER heard so much as a peep out of anybody that felt it was their RIGHT to play the game with no challenge at all. I'm sorry, but at the moment, I am beginning to have little respect for much of the GTPlanet membership. Arcade players pretending to be serious. Or not even pretending, if the truth be known.

 

[Corrigan]

There most certainly is all you have to do is listen to some of them to tell they aren't running stock exhausts. So who knows what other upgrades they are running.

Edit: Perhaps you might wanna check out the power and weight of that list and tell me how cars that are supposedly "stock" are running almost 500hp?

I don't know which cars are on the list, so the fact that they're at 500bhp doesn't really tell me anything.
If there are cars rated at a higher power than they are stock, it may very well be that I'm wrong.

 

[Falango]

I'm not the best racer, but I'm not terrible. I used to be. How did I get from terrible to un-terrible?

I don't unnecessarily tune the hell out of my cars.

I have read people complain about the lack of tuning restrictions in the latest seasonal events. The solution is simple, buy the stock car, don't tune it, and try the race.

Maybe you'll lose. That's ok; it's a part of racing. When your car is a little slow and your tires are crap, you get to know track (and the car) intimately. If you try the race twice and it is obvious that you need to tune, do some moderate tuning. Maybe an engine chip, a sport muffler, a sprinkle of turbo.

The point is the game is much more fun when you moderate yourself! Don't go tuning your car so that it has more horsepower than a civil war calvary unit and tires that are softer than a silk bag full of puppy ears. Go bit by bit. You'll become a better driver and the game won't be as bad as you make it out to be.

I agree 100%. People buy cars, see they don't have restrictions, tune the crap out of it, then whine when there's no competition. Create the competition yourself! If you really want a fun game, challenge yourself. If you just want to be bored, keep doin what you're doin.

 

[Tommy_861]

What upsets me most is that we are turning the ire for this situation on each other, rather than putting it squarely on PD's shoulders. I have never played a game before that allowed you to make a mockery of the game simply because the game designers were so lazy, they couldn't even be bothered to put in some basic rules.

In Shift, you can't enter a Zonda into a race for Vitz's. You can't enter a Works racer into a race for stock cars. You can't enter a car with triple the horsepower into a race at all. You upgrade your car against the AI, they upgrade too.

And, you know what? The game is MUCH better for it. And nobody complains.

I don't get it, I really don't. The Shift forums are NOT full of whiners complaining that they can't beat the game, that it is somehow their RIGHT (after all, they payed for the game, didn't they? ) to be able to triple the horsepower on just THEIR car. I never realized what a user base full of people with absolutely NO INTEREST in racing the GT series had...

All the fanboys want to diss Shift as arcade-y. But I NEVER heard so much as a peep out of anybody that felt it was their RIGHT to play the game with no challenge at all. I'm sorry, but at the moment, I am beginning to have little respect for much of the GTPlanet membership. Arcade players pretending to be serious. Or not even pretending, if the truth be known.

The whole feeling of it being everyone's "right" to everything is an epidemic on this forum. Its the same crowd who can't believe you have to actually play the game to be able to drive all the cars or access all the courses and events. Because they "paid" for 1000 cars so its their "right" to them.

 

[elrousso]

Tell me honestly, in any of the previous seasonal events, would you not have tuned your car to higher hp/better tires after a few tries if you were just feeling it out to see if you felt it was winnable? I think so.. and that's why the suggestion to just limit yourself isn't the same as having restrictions.

May I point you over to my Enduro report, as I understand the OP's point of restricting yourself for the races. When trying my hand at the first seasonal events, where there were restrictions, I would still buy almost everything related to transmission and suspension, because these're the areas where tuning is effective. I'm not a super driver, so winning these events with a completely stock car was not possible for me (i.e. would have taken too much time, IMO), but tuning makes it fun and enjoyable, without having to resort to destrying the competiton like in some A-Spec races, and at the same time I'm learning to tune my cars effectively.

Granted, there are some times where the car I'm driving is simply too much for the opposition (Dream Car Championship last evening with my ZR-1 RM, for example), but only because I don't want to spend money on a new car every time I enter a race, but that's my way of doing things. The Focus I used in the GVS300 race (that race had no restrictions) was the one I bought for the second Seasonal events' Focus race, so it had almost no "power upgrades", and that made for one really nice race that I needed to be smart and efficient to win. That's what I think the OP meant by "restricting yourself"...

Cheers 👍

 

[INSTG8R]

I don't know which cars are on the list, so the fact that they're at 500bhp doesn't really tell me anything.
If there are cars rated at a higher power than they are stock, it may very well be that I'm wrong.

Okay I just had a quick look at the Ford GT race. GT-R Vspec '09=493HP it is 478 stock, I will admit I didn't check the weights but that was just an easy one to pick out.

 

[Corrigan]

You see, things like that could be because of fresh oil.
I'm going to need more compelling evidence. If you find me a car with hundreds of hp too much, I'll have to accept that there are tuned AI cars, but until then I just don't think so.

 

[Bandwidth815]

I'm not the best racer, but I'm not terrible. I used to be. How did I get from terrible to un-terrible?

I don't unnecessarily tune the hell out of my cars.

I have read people complain about the lack of tuning restrictions in the latest seasonal events. The solution is simple, buy the stock car, don't tune it, and try the race.

Maybe you'll lose. That's ok; it's a part of racing. When your car is a little slow and your tires are crap, you get to know track (and the car) intimately. If you try the race twice and it is obvious that you need to tune, do some moderate tuning. Maybe an engine chip, a sport muffler, a sprinkle of turbo.

The point is the game is much more fun when you moderate yourself! Don't go tuning your car so that it has more horsepower than a civil war calvary unit and tires that are softer than a silk bag full of puppy ears. Go bit by bit. You'll become a better driver and the game won't be as bad as you make it out to be.

This is what I normally do. I hate it when people go and cram 1000 hp into any car they ever get. I buy a car, find it's weakness (like in the evo X i bought, it needed slightly more power), then mod accordingly.
Although sometimes it is quite fun to super-tune a car. I have a Fiat 500 with 260 hp. LOL that car is crazy.

 

[INSTG8R]

You see, things like that could be because of fresh oil.
I'm going to need more compelling evidence. If you find me a car with hundreds of hp too much, I'll have to accept that there are tuned AI cars, but until then I just don't think so.

Fair enough, but it's not stock. I just picked the first one I saw.
Not too mention there have been plenty of races I have heard cars not running stock exhausts(I generally don't put exhaust on cars as I generally prefer the original exhaust note)

 

[Goudvis]

What a revolutionary idea!

I like this topic.

 

[JMII]

I don't unnecessarily tune the hell out of my cars.

I have read people complain about the lack of tuning restrictions in the latest seasonal events. The solution is simple, buy the stock car, don't tune it, and try the race.

Maybe you'll lose. That's ok; it's a part of racing. When your car is a little slow and your tires are crap, you get to know track (and the car) intimately. If you try the race twice and it is obvious that you need to tune, do some moderate tuning. Maybe an engine chip, a sport muffler, a sprinkle of turbo.

The point is the game is much more fun when you moderate yourself! Don't go tuning your car so that it has more horsepower than a civil war calvary unit and tires that are softer than a silk bag full of puppy ears. Go bit by bit. You'll become a better driver and the game won't be as bad as you make it out to be.

BINGO! We have a winner here. This is way I play A-Spec. The problem with A-Spec is the rubberbanding makes picking an equal car a major pain because the AI guys adjust their speed. However in these seasonal events they run a fixed pace, which I strongly prefer.

 

[hsdioce]

well all i know if you try to equal the AI exactly, it'll be impossible to win, you need just a bit of tuning, like a racing air filter, small turbo, exhaust, etc. because i saw in a race, an AI with a 300zx with a racing exhaust, and i knew cuz i have the same one on my 300zx! so yea it takes the fun out of it if all you want to do is blow past everyone , so in my eyes doing the super gt race so was super epic and close, because all the cars are pretty equal, and it actually took skill to win the race.

 

[wajdi1977]

Do you want to prove to you're self to be a good driver?go online and challenge the others with the same car!I don't care about challenge in the seasonal events,the offline part help me to make some credit and buy my favourite cars!the real challenge is when you race online with other competitive-fair drivers!

 

[Destinkeys]

Look, I think just about everything going wrong with the game and it's culture boils back down to ONE thing. GT5 has what, a third or a quarter of the A-Spec events that GT4 had..? People are grinding for EXP and cr., rather than playing new challenges. As a response, rather than FIX the problem by adding in 3 or 4X's as many events into A-Spec, PD are doling out seasonal events with ridiculous amounts of prize money and EXP, and of course, they are either going to be too hard or too easy, depending on your point of view. Once the prize money becomes so high, OF COURSE those with no skills are going to be incensed if they can't gold them easily.

I simply do NOT get it. I can sit down with a pen and paper, and come up with 200 new challenges in an afternoon. Give them the B-Spec cars as rewards, then no-one would have to (or probably would!) ever play that abortion of a game section ever again!

But no....

It is enough to make you weep, seeing such a great franchise brought to its' knees by so simple a problem. For the want of a nail...

 

[Kaaosherra]

well all i know if you try to equal the AI exactly, it'll be impossible to win.

Not true.

I'm not sure the AI uses the same system in A-spec as in B-spec, but if it does, all you need to do is watch one B-spec race to see the AI is, more often than not, slow as hell.

 

[RikkiGT-R]

Look, I think just about everything going wrong with the game and it's culture boils back down to ONE thing. GT5 has what, a third or a quarter of the A-Spec events that GT4 had..? People are grinding for EXP and cr., rather than playing new challenges. As a response, rather than FIX the problem by adding in 3 or 4X's as many events into A-Spec, PD are doling out seasonal events with ridiculous amounts of prize money and EXP, and of course, they are either going to be too hard or too easy, depending on your point of view. Once the prize money becomes so high, OF COURSE those with no skills are going to be incensed if they can't gold them easily.

I simply do NOT get it. I can sit down with a pen and paper, and come up with 200 new challenges in an afternoon. Give them the B-Spec cars as rewards, then no-one would have to (or probably would!) ever play that abortion of a game section ever again!

But no....

It is enough to make you weep, seeing such a great franchise brought to its' knees by so simple a problem. For the want of a nail...

Good post 👍

GT4 had 522 A-Spec races, GT5 has 127.

(I've pointed that out a few times on various threads so far)

 

[kidd0218]

I totally agree with the OP. I just opened the new Seasonal Events to see whats people are complaining about no restrictions and all that.

I've been racing lately with no mods on or just a few minor mods to have my car around the same average BHP of the typical opponents. Its fun! Try racing the Japan GP?GT? on a stock Xanavi GTR, its a battle everytime you brake, because the others cars are just behind you! Especially that damn NSX one.

 

[Bluez_Freak]

I agree 100%. People buy cars, see they don't have restrictions, tune the crap out of it, then whine when there's no competition. Create the competition yourself! If you really want a fun game, challenge yourself. If you just want to be bored, keep doin what you're doin.

Sorry that's PD's job not mine. They are selling a complete game not just the game engine and physics.

It is their job to make the game difficult but not impossible. Mine is to try and win it.

Leaving no restrictions (except the country/year rather irrelevant restrictions) in all events leaves us two choices:
1) out-power/out-tyre them and get on with the next event
- or -
2) do the programmer's job by trying (probably too many times) to find the appropriate car and tuning level to enjoyably compete with AI. Well that process is not enjoyable either because you will have to do the event too many times to find the exact sweet spot which makes it challenging enough.

I am 94% in the game now and I have had the most challenge/fun with the online events, the licenses and some special events - all of which were restricted.

To put it another way, would you want to play an RPG game with a top-class wizard from the very beginning blasting every foe around??

 

[Kaaosherra]

well all i know if you try to equal the AI exactly, it'll be impossible to win, you need just a bit of tuning, like a racing air filter, small turbo, exhaust, etc.

Okay, so, I started to think about this some more, and figured out a way to test it. I bought a new BMW M Coupe and took it straight from the showroom to a practice race (identical opponets), and guess what? I won a three lap race by 11.6 seconds. My best lap was a 1.42.9, and the best AI did a 1.46.9.

This was with a controller, and all assists off, so it's not even that fast of a lap. Some of these crazy people who win these time trial competitions could propably shave 5+ secs off my time.

So all I know is that if you try to equal the AI, you will blow them out and have no competition.

 

[INSTG8R]

Sorry that's PD's job not mine. They are selling a complete game not just the game engine and physics.

It is their job to make the game difficult but not impossible. Mine is to try and win it.

Leaving no restrictions (except the country/year rather irrelevant restrictions) in all events leaves us two choices:
1) out-power/out-tyre them and get on with the next event
- or -
2) do the programmer's job by trying (probably too many times) to find the appropriate car and tuning level to enjoyably compete with AI. Well that process is not enjoyable either because you will have to do the event too many times to find the exact sweet spot which makes it challenging enough.

I am 94% in the game now and I have had the most challenge/fun with the online events, the licenses and some special events - all of which were restricted.

To put it another way, would you want to play an RPG game with a top-class wizard from the very beginning blasting every foe around??

Very well said 👍

 

[zk523]

Er..

First of all, I don't think there's a non-stock AI car in any event in GT5. If there is, you won't mind proving it.

i dont know about that...last night, i bought a '62 Lotus Elan for the British Lightweights race after checking the list and seeing that there was one on there with 192 hp approx. the car came stock with like 122 or something...

 

[Tekku]

I'd still like it (A-Spec) better if PD put some thought and testing in the game like they did in GT1, GT2, GT3, and GT4, and make it at least a little bit of a challenge.

What they did in GT5 is just lazy and lame.

Yes I agree w/ OP, but I still think GT5 should be like that w/o me having to impose restrictions on myself. I paid them to figure all that out in the development of GT5. I don't want to have to be the guinea pig in every single A-Spec race just to figure out what mods if any make the race fun and challenging, but still "win-able". They should have already done that through testing. They could just have a difficulty slider or OPTION to run race restriction free for slow people-- but also reward the more difficult way with more Cr.

Not to mention the general lack of A-Spec races compared to GT4.. look at my damn sig. That decrease in content is a disgrace on it's own, not even considering the fact that they left the difficulty balance testing completely out of the game.

I completely agree with you.

 

[Devedander]

Sorry that's PD's job not mine. They are selling a complete game not just the game engine and physics.

It is their job to make the game difficult but not impossible. Mine is to try and win it.

Leaving no restrictions (except the country/year rather irrelevant restrictions) in all events leaves us two choices:
1) out-power/out-tyre them and get on with the next event
- or -
2) do the programmer's job by trying (probably too many times) to find the appropriate car and tuning level to enjoyably compete with AI. Well that process is not enjoyable either because you will have to do the event too many times to find the exact sweet spot which makes it challenging enough.

I am 94% in the game now and I have had the most challenge/fun with the online events, the licenses and some special events - all of which were restricted.

To put it another way, would you want to play an RPG game with a top-class wizard from the very beginning blasting every foe around??

Finally someone else who gets it...

 

[niky]

What upsets me most is that we are turning the ire for this situation on each other, rather than putting it squarely on PD's shoulders. I have never played a game before that allowed you to make a mockery of the game simply because the game designers were so lazy, they couldn't even be bothered to put in some basic rules.

In Shift, you can't enter a Zonda into a race for Vitz's. You can't enter a Works racer into a race for stock cars. You can't enter a car with triple the horsepower into a race at all. You upgrade your car against the AI, they upgrade too.

And, you know what? The game is MUCH better for it. And nobody complains.

I don't get it, I really don't. The Shift forums are NOT full of whiners complaining that they can't beat the game, that it is somehow their RIGHT (after all, they payed for the game, didn't they? ) to be able to triple the horsepower on just THEIR car. I never realized what a user base full of people with absolutely NO INTEREST in racing the GT series had...

All the fanboys want to diss Shift as arcade-y. But I NEVER heard so much as a peep out of anybody that felt it was their RIGHT to play the game with no challenge at all. I'm sorry, but at the moment, I am beginning to have little respect for much of the GTPlanet membership. Arcade players pretending to be serious. Or not even pretending, if the truth be known.

The problem with SHIFT being arcade-y is not a problem of gameplay design and challenge... as the gameplay is good and the challenge level is interesting. It's a problem of the physics themselves being hobbled by being adapted for arcade-style handling. Something which the development team said early on would happen, but some people were still hoping that in "professional mode", the arcade features would be turned completely off. They weren't. Those of us who were turned off by this (and who have no access to mods, like PC gamers do) are waiting for SHIFT 2.

I'll agree that SHIFT has its brilliant moments, but the physics engine is a big frustration for some of us who fell absolutely in love with it on the first go. And people aren't complaining about not being able to beat the game because almost anyone can beat the game. My brother finished it before I even got my copy, and he never got more than halfway through GT4.

Gran Turismo 5 has some glitches in event restrictions, but by and large, the races can be won easily in the fastest cars on the grid, stock, with some difficulty in a mid-pack car, and with a hellish amount of difficulty in one of the backmarkers. And the license tests and special events are a great challenge for wheel users, and are hellishly difficult for pad users. Actually golding all of these in any Turismo feels like an accomplishment.

It's not perfect... GT4 and GT3 also had flaws in difficulty ratings and field selection... seemingly because events were not playtested on the final betas, but on earlier physics builds or gameplay builds. The A-Spec points in GT4 showed us this much... where some 200 A-Spec races were ridiculously easy, while others were physically impossible. As Bluez_freak notes: they're forcing us to do the programmer's job of figuring out how to set our own difficulty level.

-

Just a tip: If you want respect from the general membership, give it. As I've said elsewhere, I've no beef with your opinion on the game, and I'm perfectly happy to argue points with you, but sweeping generalizations about everyone else here on the board will do you no favors in your argument.

 

[Tommy_861]

The problem with SHIFT being arcade-y is not a problem of gameplay design and challenge... as the gameplay is good and the challenge level is interesting. It's a problem of the physics themselves being hobbled by being adapted for arcade-style handling. Something which the development team said early on would happen, but some people were still hoping that in "professional mode", the arcade features would be turned completely off. They weren't. Those of us who were turned off by this (and who have no access to mods, like PC gamers do) are waiting for SHIFT 2.

I'll agree that SHIFT has its brilliant moments, but the physics engine is a big frustration for some of us who fell absolutely in love with it on the first go. And people aren't complaining about not being able to beat the game because almost anyone can beat the game. My brother finished it before I even got my copy, and he never got more than halfway through GT4. .......................

SHIFT threw itself out the window for me by parading itself around to be a sim, yet putting so much emphasis on dirty driving. That and the first corner mele that happened in EVERY race. I ended up not finishing it but not for a lack of trying, I actually was trying to beat every event (except drifting I hate it) but by the time I got to the last event tier I realized I spent more time wanting to punch the screen than I did enjoying the game. The thought of playing the longer races with the complete on track brawls, and the frustration that goes with it and the rubberbanding made me stop playing, because it just wasn't fun.

 

[apex28del]

The A-Spec points in GT4 showed us this much... where some 200 A-Spec races were ridiculously easy, while others were physically impossible.

Instant solution: Meaningful A-Spec points.
*ding*

 

[niky]

SHIFT threw itself out the window for me by parading itself around to be a sim, yet putting so much emphasis on dirty driving. That and the first corner mele that happened in EVERY race. I ended up not finishing it but not for a lack of trying, I actually was trying to beat every event (except drifting I hate it) but by the time I got to the last event tier I realized I spent more time wanting to punch the screen than I did enjoying the game. The thought of playing the longer races with the complete on track brawls, and the frustration that goes with it and the rubberbanding made me stop playing, because it just wasn't fun.

To be absolutely fair to SHIFT, the developers did say it was going to focus on arcade-style gameplay. The problem is, they didn't allow for players to choose "realistic" racing with all the aids completely off. (Hence comments from quite a few that the physics engine seems to change parameters based on whether you drive clean or intentionally initiate drifts). There were other factors, but that was the one that broke my camel's back.

I did hate the fact that you had to run people off the track to get some trophies... just didn't seem right in a video game... but I found that the driving itself, was, at times, absolutely brilliant.

Disclaimer: I'm still buying SHIFT2. If they tweak the game engine, at least, it should be epic.

 

[BWX]

You see, things like that could be because of fresh oil.
I'm going to need more compelling evidence. If you find me a car with hundreds of hp too much, I'll have to accept that there are tuned AI cars, but until then I just don't think so.

Just face it, you are wrong.

 

[Tommy_861]

To be absolutely fair to SHIFT, the developers did say it was going to focus on arcade-style gameplay. The problem is, they didn't allow for players to choose "realistic" racing with all the aids completely off. (Hence comments from quite a few that the physics engine seems to change parameters based on whether you drive clean or intentionally initiate drifts). There were other factors, but that was the one that broke my camel's back.

I did hate the fact that you had to run people off the track to get some trophies... just didn't seem right in a video game... but I found that the driving itself, was, at times, absolutely brilliant.

Disclaimer: I'm still buying SHIFT2. If they tweak the game engine, at least, it should be epic.

I agree with your comments. You could actually turn most of the aids off, and also make the steering 900 degree, but it really took a LOT of goofing with the options to get the feel anywhere remotely near GT5P or a normal car or anything. Based on the fact SHIFT 2 has the FIA GT1 series license now I am hoping that will tend things toward the less violent side. SHIFT Pissed me off, but not enough to not give SHIFT 2 a shot, it did have promise.