Road course racing car for a beginner. Also daily drivable?

[TsukubaTrueno]

I am looking for a car, my first car actually. Basically, I want a car that could be my daily driver, but also a car that would be great for road course racing. I plan on racing with my friend Eric Filgueiras, who currently karts and is starting his racing career with an actual car next year.

My budget is $6000.
I would appreciate some of you guys' ideas.

First choice is a pretty obvious one.

This 1994 MX5 is from a seller in Ocala, Florida, about two hours from were I live.
Miles: 118,485
Asking price: $5,550
It's automatic, so I don't think I'm interested in buying this particular one. Just putting it up as an example.

How about a 240SX?

A pretty good looking 1991 240SX
Asking price: $3,998
Miles: 125,186

I'm pretty tired at the moment, and I can't think of any others. I'll probably come back and post some more later.

Again, replies are appreciated.

 

[slidesquad#1]

If you're actually serious about seeing a LOT of track time, you should probably think about a dedicated track rat. There's always a chance that you might have an off, or something on your car goes boom, and then you're stuck with no car at all, especially if you spent most of your budget buying the thing in the first place.

An old civic or something shouldn't be too expensive, and should be fun around corners if you just gut it out. And then you still have a sizable chunk of money left over to get a DD to get you from place to place.

What kind of racing would you be doing anyways, just track days, or competetive wheel to wheel stuff?

 

[Paulie]

If you're actually serious about seeing a LOT of track time, you should probably think about a dedicated track rat. There's always a chance that you might have an off, or something on your car goes boom, and then you're stuck with no car at all, especially if you spent most of your budget buying the thing in the first place.

An old civic or something shouldn't be too expensive, and should be fun around corners if you just gut it out. And then you still have a sizable chunk of money left over to get a DD to get you from place to place.

What kind of racing would you be doing anyways, just track days, or competetive wheel to wheel stuff?

Is the fairly simple answer really. There's no maybes, track cars will break things from time to time, in addition to requiring things that would be rather useless on the road and very expensive if you wanted some decent performance, like brake pads that operate in higher temps.

 

[mafia_boy]

Ask yourself the following questions:

1. How often will you trackday it?
2. How much are you prepared to spend on upgrades?
3. How much power do you want??

Look at 1/2 your budget (so $3000) for purchasing your car, then use the other $3000 for upgrades for engine (pod filter, exhaust, maybe a cam), suspension (new springs & shocks), brakes/pads (look for bigger calipers and rotors from other cars that bolt on for a cheap upgrade) and good sticky track tyres. 👍

Then go and get a racing licence so you can compete at club level events and learn the tips from fellow racers who have lots more experience.

 

[Jim Prower]

'cmon. parts are readily available, will have more than enough power as stock, and can easily have much, much more with a simple exhaust/cam setup.

 

[Joey D]

You are only going to be 16 and this will be your first car. This means you won't be a good driver and chances are you'll wreck whatever car you have within 6 months of getting your license. Buy something cheap for the road, a Neon, Escort, Caviler or something similar and then get something cheap for a track car. You can easily get one of the aforementioned domestic small cars for a $1,000 or less. With the rest of your budget you can consider something dedicated for the track. This way when you crash your road car you won't feel so bad because it was cheap and when you crash you track car you won't be screwed since you have no wheels.

With that out of the way, I'm going to suggest trying to find a Neon ACR for a track car. Assuming you've been to events already I'm sure you know they are pretty good around a track or cones. A CRX wouldn't be bad either but I don't know how the prices are for them in Florida, in Michigan they are needlessly overpriced.

 

[Stevisiov]

You are only going to be 16 and this will be your first car. This means you won't be a good driver and chances are you'll wreck whatever car you have within 6 months of getting your license.

Bit presumptuous, no?

 

[Bandit1]

I like the Idea of a 1993-97 Camaro / Trans Am. Or a 1994-98 Mustang GT. 240sx and miata are also good choices and maybe a 3000GT. It just depends what you like and what is most comfortable. Good luck and congratulations in advance

 

[Duke]

Bit presumptuous, no?

No, not at all.

I like the Idea of a 1993-97 Camaro / Trans Am. Or a 1994-98 Mustang GT.

Way too much power for a beginning driver and beginning racer. Learn to drive fast in a fast car and you'll only be fast in fast cars, assuming you don't stack it (and that's not a safe bet). Learn to drive fast in a slow car and you'll be fast in anything.

240sx

Too much Drift Tax to pay on those.

maybe a 3000GT

Too heavy, too complicated, too fast, too expensive.

Frankly, Miata and Civic are your best bets. I loved my Neon ACR and it was a hairy little beast, but they are getting rarer every year. Even the regular models with a 5 speed are a great street driver, too, but unfortunately Neons suffer from Disposable Car Syndrome and so finding one you want to own is tough.

Here's how I would budget:

$1500 daily driver - whatever the best shape car you can find in that price range
$2500 track car - Miata, Civic, Neon, older SE-R - look for a well-sorted race or autocross car that is being retired; try your local SCCA and NASA forums
$1500 maintenance and upgrades
$500 reserve

 

[Alex.]

Way to fill us newly-passed drivers with confidence

 

[Duke]

Way to fill us newly-passed drivers with confidence

It's just the way of the world. I did it too. That's why teen drivers - particularly teen male drivers - have such astronomical insurance costs.

Speaking of which, if you shunt your car on track, your insurance is going to pay zip, zero, zilcho, unless you have a separate event rider. That's one more reason to have a dedicated track rat.

 

[Keef]

Bit presumptuous, no?

No. We all wreck cars. Even after we've got it pretty much figured out we wreck them.

Joey, and anyone else who mentioned a cheapo first car, has got it right. If I'd had done that I might still have some of the free $5000 I had laying around back then. Talk about stupid.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I have been road track racing for quite a few years. I started with a 1996 Firebird Formula and now I use my 69 Camaro. I built it as a daily driver with 6 speed, power seats, and other comfort items for daily driving. It CAN be daily driven but now use it more for road track racing. I have always driven it to and from every single event I have attended and I have owned my Camaro for 8 years in January 2010.

Since you are 16 and this is your first car, I am guessing you wont see much track time at all. A 4th gen Camaro, 4th gen Trans AM, or 90's Mustang should fit the budget. And as Jim said, parts are everywhere for these cars and cheap. Set your budget to around $3,000-$4,000 as suggested above. Use the extra money for repairs and upgrades. Dont worry much about the body or paint. Make sure the drivetrain is solid!!! Engine, tranny, and rear end are very important.

I would have suggested an older car but they are becoming very rare and getting quite expensive to find.

 

[Joey D]

Bit presumptuous, no?

As others mentioned, no, it isn't. I crashed cars when I first got them, so did many other members. It's just statistically new drivers crash cars due to lack of experience.

 

[LeeMoldon]

Hi,

If you want a good track day car then you really want to think about going rear wheel drive or four wheel drive and something lightweight.

And..

...i would avoid most american cars as the weight would be a serious dis-advantage around a track especially on fuel, brakes and tyres BUT american car parts are way more numerous and probably cheaper.

plus..

...your bang for buck with an american V8 would be better.

Japanese (especially toyota) and german cars are probably your best bet as they combine good reliability AND are generally well made and can be pretty light. avoid mercedes obviously.

BMW's are nearly all rear wheel drive but i'm not sure about how much you would spend on engine parts.

How about a ....

4wd toyota celica
Rwd Supra
Rwd Mr2 (mk2)
Rwd 3 series BMW (old)
Rwd ford Escort (mk2)

Anyway, have a laugh

ta ta

 

[///M-Spec]

Basically, I want a car that could be my daily driver, but also a car that would be great for road course racing.

Do you want to actually race or do you want to do HPDE (high performance driver's education) aka "track days"? There's a HUGE difference.

HPDE is not racing. You drive around the track behind people and hope to get a point-by. Most clubs don't even allow timing devices. In fact, the last one I went to, a speed gun was discovered set up along the front straight and immediately confiscated by the club.

If you want to do wheel to wheel racing, you will need a race car. I don't think this is realistic given your experience level and modest budget. And given that race cars are almost never street legal means you won't have a daily driver. Even a Spec Miata, the most basic and accessible of all spec racers, is not road legal. In fact, I can't think of a single club level or pro racing series that allow street cars --primarily because emissions equipment like catalysts is the first thing to get chucked. From what I've read, it cost about 15k to build a competitive Spec Miata. This of course doesn't include the cost of running it for a season.

I think what you want is a track car that can double-duty as a daily driver. If that's the case, then you should be looking for a car that has a lot of aftermarket support for track enthusiasts.

The Miata once again is an obvious choice. Less obvious but equally compelling are:

E30 and E36 BMWs
Porsche 924/944/968s
GM F-Body
Ford Foxbody and up
Honda Civic and Integra

Everybody has them. And that's a good thing. Because the parts that you will chew up at the track (pads, rotors, tires, etc.) and the parts you will need to upgrade (brakes, suspension parts, bushings and mounts) will be cheaper and already tested by the hundreds of guys that have done this before you.

Don't pick some random obscure car because you think it might be cool to turn it into a track toy. You will probably find out that the stock parts suck and nobody makes upgrades that will tolerate track abuse.

Here's helpful rule of thumb: if nobody makes track pads for a particular model, don't even think about it. If track pads cost more than $175 per axle, don't even think about it --you can go through a set in a weekend.

I suggest autocross before track events. It's a good way to learn the fundamentals. Plus, when you spin your car, you do it at 30-40 mph across a parking lot which hopefully is free of corner workers. Spin at a track and you could be a passenger for a ride into a tire wall. With shiny side up being optional.

Bit presumptuous, no?

No.


M

 

[crooky369]

Now there's some proper advice 👍

But it seems bizarre that they don't allow any timing devices, if you don't race then what do you do? Or it just about doing "spirited" driving legally more than anything else?

 

[Jim Prower]

Oh, he's just starting out? Well, then...

Get something you can afford to thrash.

 

[Jetboy.]

Always a Geo/Nova, Jim. He's right though, start simple. The call of big power is hard to deny, but avoid it since you're a beginner. M and Duke both have sound advice. Concievably it could be done on your budget but I seriously wouldn't recommend it.. You have a friend running autocross/trackdays/SCCA/whatever. Couldn't you buddy with him and split the bill if something breaks?

If you're hardheaded about it, get a simple FWD car with a lot of aftermarket background. For example, my Hyundai Scoupe would have been an absolute failure as a track rat because of the non-existant aftermarket. As a rule of thumb, avoid anything stupidly over-complicated... Someone said a 3000GT. Anything turbo is a bad idea because of cost of failure.


Going domestic, the aforementioned Neon is good, but stick with the first gen as they're lighter. Finding one you will want will be a pain. Finding a 2.0 DualCam will be torture. Duke will be your go-to guy for more in-depth info.

A Cavalier would be alright, but find an Ecotec car; the 2200 while resiliant, is sorely underpowered while the rather powerful LD9 2.4 Quad 4 is quite expensive to repair (Having a 2.3 Quad, I know..)

A ZX2 is a plausable option, being light and suprisingly zippy. An 02 Escort ZX2 usually comes in around $2500 and has a very nice independent rear setup. A lot of MX-3 performance parts for the front suspension cross over. A friend of mine had one as a street/track slut for 3 years without any maligning issues.

JDM:

As a general rule, stay away from DSM's (Sorry Slicks). Buying a $3000 DSM it's a good idea to keep $3000 just as a budget for whatever goes wrong. Finding one that wasn't "tuned" in a previous life will be like finding the last virgin in Vegas.

Civic: Often can't go wrong, but you will pay a premium for anything with V-tec plastered on the valve cover. Keef will be your go-to guy for most anything Honda.

Someone here mentioned the SE-R-series cars. A mid-90's 200SX or Sentra with be decently cheap to have, repair, and modify. The SR20 series can be modified extensively for a little cash.


First thing to check when upgrading is tires and brakes. Obviously you're going to buy a car that goes, at least have one that can stop and turn. A lot of other info and ideas/inspiration can be had from Grassroots Motorsports Magazine (or the official site enclosed).

Hope I was somewhat helpful.



Cheers,
Jetboy

 

[///M-Spec]

But it seems bizarre that they don't allow any timing devices, if you don't race then what do you do? Or it just about doing "spirited" driving legally more than anything else?

They do not allow timing devices for insurance purposes. Both the club organizing the event and the track itself must insure themselves against liability if anything were to go wrong. A timing device implies racing --and racing against a clock is still racing. An event labeled as "driver education" is considered less dangerous than a time trial or wheel to wheel --thus easier to insure. Thus the majority of track events are HPDE style. Some clubs do not have a "no timing" rule, but I suspect these events have higher entry fees.

At HPDEs you basically learn to drive fast. You are given classroom education. You are typically paired with an instructor who rides with you. You are not allowed to pass another car unless given permission to do so by the leading car. And no one may pass you until you give your permission in turn. This is called a "point by" and done with either a hand signal (traditional) or by flicking a turn signal to indicate what side you wish to be passed on. In addition, there are designated passing areas as well. Break these rules and you get a black flag waved at you, meaning you must then return to the pits where you get a stern talking to. See two black flags and you are typically shown the way home. But otherwise, you are welcome to go as fast as you and your instructor are comfortable with.


There is an intermediate type of track event I forgot about earlier called a time trial (traditional name for a time attack), which some clubs offer. It isn't wheel to wheel, but you do get to go flat out against the clock. Fastest times takes the trophy home. Basically an autocross on a real track. I'm not sure it's much cheaper than club racing in a spec series though.


M

 

[TsukubaTrueno]

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

This should answer some of you guys' questions..

• I will be at the track with the car as much as I can, it would probably consume all of my spare time.
  
• I'm willing to spend on upgrades as much as I can afford at that moment. I'm going to start looking for a job around in May(I'm 15 atm) when I'm sixteen, and I can guarantee most of the money earned will go towards the car.
  
• About upgrades: the first thing I will likely do to the car is change stuff in the suspension system like shocks, etc. I hear changing the suspension on a car is something that can make a whole lot of difference. Then probably exhaust, then intake.
  
• I'm not really interested in anything American, except something small like a Neon ACR as Joey mentioned. Nothing like Mustangs or Camaros interest me at the moment.
  
• I guess I plan on going into trackdays first for a couple of months to get a feel of it, then I would go in a jump into wheel on wheel racing. We're moving next weekend to Orlando and the Central Florida Racing Complex is there. They have drifting events,a road course, and I'm pretty sure they had autocross last time I checked.

Honda Civics right now are on the bottom of my list.. Maybe not, but I just don't know what to think about them as a car I would be driving. Like M-Spec said, everyone has them(all the teenagers here have one), and yeah, it is a good thing. But, honestly, when I think of a Civic, I think of fart can mufflers and bleacher spoilers. There are a lot of super nice Civics like Keef's, I just don't see the around. It is a pretty cheap car to buy and you can make them look very nice if you have taste, and make them pretty fast. I'm still considering, though..

A nice '00 Civic with almost 99k miles. Seller is asking $4000 for it.

MR2s are all right, don't really know much about them but some people like to use them for track cars. Any info about this type of car is welcome.

This is a 1993 MR2 with 174k miles. Seller is asking $5400 for it.

A BMW 318i E30 sounds pretty cool too. I love the car's looks and I hear it's a pretty good track car too.

This 1989 E30 is from a seller in the UK. He's asking around $2400 when converted to US dollar. Just using this one as an example as I could not find good ones under $6000 located in the U.S when I Googled. http://www.carandclassic.com/car/C129416/#

Thanks again for all the amazing replies with advice, everyone. Keep 'em coming. 👍

 

[Rotary Junkie]

RX-7 track rat says wuzzup. http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/cto/1510248388.html

 

[Jetboy.]

Jr Wallet sez hellno.

 

[TsukubaTrueno]

Mm, that looks good. I think I'm going to talk to my dad about this car.. It's in Port St. Lucie, not that far from where I live I believe.

 

[mafia_boy]

Check RJ's car thread where I showed him an ad for an AW11 version MR2 that was in there for $2500 with only 80,000-odd miles on it!

Link to the post I made about the MR2!

It's powered by the unbreakable 4A-GE motor (if you're lucky it's the 170hp 4A-GZE) with around 135hp, weighs as much as a paperclip and is extremely chuckable in most situations. They respond well to plenty of modifications and it looked very respectable in that ad. Too bad for you it's in Michigan.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Send me $3000 and I'll drive it down for you.

Edit: That's to cover the car, my trip down, and a way back.

 

[mafia_boy]

I'd give you $2000 RJ, because the therapy I'd pay for after meeting you would cost the extra $1000.

 

[TsukubaTrueno]

Check RJ's car thread where I showed him an ad for an AW11 version MR2 that was in there for $2500 with only 80,000-odd miles on it!

Link to the post I made about the MR2!

It's powered by the unbreakable 4A-GE motor (if you're lucky it's the 170hp 4A-GZE) with around 135hp, weighs as much as a paperclip and is extremely chuckable in most situations. They respond well to plenty of modifications and it looked very respectable in that ad. Too bad for you it's in Michigan.

That looks very nice, but I don't really dig first gen MR2s. Looks like it's in really nice condition, but its just not for me.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

I'd give you $2000 RJ, because the therapy I'd pay for after meeting you would cost the extra $1000.

Fair enough, booking a plane ticket now.

 

[Paulie]

Speaking of 4th Gen Camaros, I always thought they'd make good track cars if they were given a smart suspension setup, but I was under the impression they were 1400kg odd, turns out they're 1600kg odd which makes a Holden Monaro with similar weight, more power, a more balance chassis and IRS a FAR more compelling choice. Again though, they're both cruiser orientated, so the stock suspension and brakes would be the first things to go, them alone would make huge improvements to times.......man I wish I had a Holden Monaro to turn into my track car-cross street cruiser for special occasions.

I think the MR2 sounds like an ace choice, or for more cool factor, a Pontiac Fiero with a 3800 swap. Oh wait, that's too much power again right? Hmm, then a Fiero with a normal engine UNTIL you get better at driving...THEN a 3800 swap. I wonder if the High Feature V6s fit in them well.