Rollcages... HELP!

  • Thread starter FAOLIU05
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FAOLIU05

FAOLIU05

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Okay... I was reading a thread on the black LMP cars in the used car lots, and suddenly it went off topic, but not into enough detail.

What does a rollcage do? And when should it be applied? And how does the Chassis Refresh affect the rollcage and vise-versa?

Because I've been puting rollcages in all of my new cars before my first Chassis Refresh on that car. Is that okay? And then I would put rollcages on used cars after a Chasis Refresh... is that okay? I'm just wondering because there could be a whole other realm of performance I'm missing out on because of this...
 
The "rollcage" is not a roll cage at all. It is a graphic representaion of chassis modification to inhibit chassis twisting. No you have not missed a realm of performance.
 
The rollcage stiffens the whole chassis. As the instructions say, it may induce extra understeer, so think carefully before you fit one. It would be interesting to try it on a very sloppy, oversteery car, such as the Triumph Spitfire, to see how much it helps improve the rubbish handling.

Some advise doing a refresh first, as they say the rollcage locks you onto those values. I don't actually think it would make a difference, as it's all just number codes, and roll-caged chassis still "go off".

However, some good advice I saw was for those who like to set up their cars with the racing chassis settings: do the rollcage from the start, and base your set-up around a fully roll-caged chassis. Then you can dial out any extra understeer it induces, and you don't really notice any disadvantage.
 
My tip is to fully ignore the rollcage. When you eventually need to do a chassis refresh, that will totally screw your car, and you might as well get a new one.
If you choose to not do a much needed chassis refresh, your car will still suffer badly, and become very unpredictable to drive, and you will have to get a new one anyway.
The rollcage is good in a short term, but if you know that you will use a particular car very much, do NOT buy a rollcage for it! ESPECIALLY if the car is a oneoff, like the Zonda racecar or the Nissan R89C.
 
I've heard rumour that adding the chassis stiffener locks in the car at its current state of refresh - in other words, if you put it on an old car, it will never refresh to better than the value it was when you added the stiffening.

However, I've seen no proof of that. It's just a rumor as far as I know.

But the stiffening does add understeer. And since the number of cars in GT4 that need more understeer can be counted on one hand, I've never added it to any of my cars.
 
Duke
I've heard rumour that adding the chassis stiffener locks in the car at its current state of refresh - in other words, if you put it on an old car, it will never refresh to better than the value it was when you added the stiffening.
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That's no rumor, but it only happens if you add the Chassis Stiffner to a car that's brand new before the refresher or vice-versa I'm not sure :indiff:.
 
FastEddie12
The rollcage stiffens the whole chassis. As the instructions say, it may induce extra understeer, so think carefully before you fit one. It would be interesting to try it on a very sloppy, oversteery car, such as the Triumph Spitfire, to see how much it helps improve the rubbish handling.

Some advise doing a refresh first, as they say the rollcage locks you onto those values. I don't actually think it would make a difference, as it's all just number codes, and roll-caged chassis still "go off".

However, some good advice I saw was for those who like to set up their cars with the racing chassis settings: do the rollcage from the start, and base your set-up around a fully roll-caged chassis. Then you can dial out any extra understeer it induces, and you don't really notice any disadvantage.
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Oh Ed,that Spitfire is not oversteery and sloppy,it's "drifty" :D:D:D
 
I had a rollcage on my C9 the chassis lasted abit longer but then when it gave out, it just totally killed me.

Note: I was running 50% less downforce on my Sauber Mercedes C9.
 
GeorgeMorley
That's no rumor, but it only happens if you add the Chassis Stiffner to a car that's brand new before the refresher or vice-versa I'm not sure :indiff:.
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So, in other words, it's a rumor. Just like I said.
 
DLRgian
I had a rollcage on my C9 the chassis lasted abit longer but then when it gave out, it just totally killed me.

Note: I was running 50% less downforce on my Sauber Mercedes C9.
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Ya how did i know you were gunna post in this thread. And i would think rollcages are best for endurance type races because it protects the long term use of a cars chassis, so it shouldn't be used on your volvo 240 Gl Estate AHAHHAHA
 
mad_nos999
Ya how did i know you were gunna post in this thread. And i would think rollcages are best for endurance type races because it protects the long term use of a cars chassis, so it shouldn't be used on your volvo 240 Gl Estate AHAHHAHA
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Well mad_nos999, DLR is just helping out a request made by a fellow member, just as anyone would do.

Anyway, like Duke said, the number of cars that need more understeer could be counted on one hand, I'd say its an opinion-based buy. You're better off just buying all 3 weight reduction stages, that'll really help your cornering.
 
mad_nos999
Ya how did i know you were gunna post in this thread. And i would think rollcages are best for endurance type races because it protects the long term use of a cars chassis, so it shouldn't be used on your volvo 240 Gl Estate AHAHHAHA
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Well not all cars need a roll cage mind you, like for example it may help correct an abusively oversteering car and tame it. Also the reason why I bought the roll cage for my Sauber C9 because I ran it in the Sarthe II race and I didnt want my chassis to get warped before the 12hr mark.
 
If you put the rollcage on a car before the rigidy refresher, it will "freeze" the car in its "twisted and used" body shape, and will never be able to be brought back to new condition. Also, There is no point in putting a rollcage on a car that should already have one, like a race car. So, you shouldn't really put it on a LMP car or such. Basically, always do rigidy refresher before rollcage, or you might be missing out on a car's performance.


On some cars though, like the Impreza 22B, I'm not sure if it's just me, but the rollcage makes it handle better IMO.
 
PERFECT BALANCE
If you put the rollcage on a car before the rigidy refresher, it will "freeze" the car in its "twisted and used" body shape, and will never be able to be brought back to new condition. Also, There is no point in putting a rollcage on a car that should already have one, like a race car. So, you shouldn't really put it on a LMP car or such. Basically, always do rigidy refresher before rollcage, or you might be missing out on a car's performance.


On some cars though, like the Impreza 22B, I'm not sure if it's just me, but the rollcage makes it handle better IMO.
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In a way I do agree but the roll cage saves your car in a longer period of time because as I can recall at the 11hr mark my car was all over the place and with the rollcage I was still in control after the 14hr mark.

Example: Sarthe I and II and Nurburgring 24hr endurances and especially at the Sarthe Endurances with all the high speed sections. So I only recommend it to people who do the Sarthe or Nurburgring endurance races.
 
Yeah, I'd agree that unless your driving a 24hr Enduro, you should probably avoid the rollcage. But DO buy the chassis refresh unless you want a car that only knows how to turn left or is equipped with ADD. I seriously would't go thinking that it freezes your cars state especially if, like Team666 said, it's a one off.

FormulaGT
 
PERFECT BALANCE
If you put the rollcage on a car before the rigidy refresher, it will "freeze" the car in its "twisted and used" body shape, and will never be able to be brought back to new condition.
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Is there any actual proof of this? Or is it, as I said, just an urban legend?

The chassis refresh typically lasts a long time. I can't imagine that it wouldn't last through the whole race, if you started even a 24 hour enduro with a just-freshened car.
 
Duke
Is there any actual proof of this? Or is it, as I said, just an urban legend?

The chassis refresh typically lasts a long time. I can't imagine that it wouldn't last through the whole race, if you started even a 24 hour enduro with a just-freshened car.
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I will be honest in the hundreds of hours of testing and set-ups I did to put the tuning guides together I did in both ways and have never noticed a difference.

Scaff
 
Ok folks, Chassis Stiffening, is adding a RollCage, it stiffens the car so it doesn't twist as easily, unless somewhere in this world chassis stiffening is something else. Rigidity refresher is usually needed every 400km, that's on a car without a rollcage. I haven't really payed attention to cars with rollcages.

Roll cages automatically give you understeer, but it's beneficial to cars that are less that precise, and on some cars that don't really need it. When you add a roll cage, just setup your suspension to counteract the problem.
 
SavageEvil
Ok folks, Chassis Stiffening, is adding a RollCage, it stiffens the car so it doesn't twist as easily, unless somewhere in this world chassis stiffening is something else.
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As far as racing goes, then yes I would agree with you that the most common method of stiffening a chassis is to add a roll-cage.

However when you need to stiffen a road cars chassis, say when a manufacturer wants to develop a convertable from a coupe. It that case adding a roll cage would be a bit of a turn-off for most customers. No, in a situation like that chassis stifness can and is increased by modifing the additional chassis. The major downside is that it adds weight.

You find a similar change between generations of cars, the Porsche 911 is a great example, the structuraly rigidity of the car improves between each generation. Yet with only a very few exceptions, this is achieved through improved chassis design, great use of high-tech materials, etc.

I would however agree that in GT4 the rigidity option is most likely either a roll-cage being fitted to the car, or if the car already has one fitted, then additional modifications to the original roll-cage. After all its always possiable to make car stiffer, and in most cases you will gain from it (any change in car behaviour can and should be tuned out if unrequired).

Regards

Scaff
 
GT4_Rule
What SE said, I noticed that my car needs a refresh every 400-500km.
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They allow you to have a refresh every 4-500km, sure, but you only start to notice the difference after 1000-1500km. It really gets bad around the 3000km mark.
 
OK correct me if I am wrong here. So what you guys are saying is that you need a rigity refresh after 400-500km (248-310 miles).But I am not getting the roll-cage part. So if you put one on you dont have to do the rigidy refresh or what? And lets say if you do the rigidy refresh then the roll-cage, and the car starts to get sluggish the rifgidy refresh wont help?
 
You still have to do it, but the chassis will last longer than just the 400-500kms and I only recommend it on the 24hr endurances.
 
What I'm not getting is: Is it okay to add the roll cage to a new car? I think I understand what you guys are saying about applying the roll cage before doing the chassis refresh. What if you buy a new car that doesn't need one, and just add the roll cage?

When I started tuning, I was a little leery of adding the roll cage, because I didn't uunderstand how to compensate for the added understeer. Now I do, and my cars seem fine with the roll cage. Only thing is, am I missing out on something? Should I leave out the cage on a new car?
 
VQuick
What I'm not getting is: Is it okay to add the roll cage to a new car? I think I understand what you guys are saying about applying the roll cage before doing the chassis refresh. What if you buy a new car that doesn't need one, and just add the roll cage?

When I started tuning, I was a little leery of adding the roll cage, because I didn't uunderstand how to compensate for the added understeer. Now I do, and my cars seem fine with the roll cage. Only thing is, am I missing out on something? Should I leave out the cage on a new car?
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A brand new cars' chassis is like getting the refresherdonejust as you buy it, your car will show signs of bad control at 410km or so, just drive it till 400 and head to le sarthe, you see what happens during high speed braking with a warped chassis, and it progressively gets worse to where it affects, high speed stability, high speed braking and slaloms at medium to high speeds.

Do not add the Roll cage if you do not want it, be warned, it will make the car much stiffer than normal, some cars this is soo bad you'll need to replace the car, or drive it on very low spring rate/damper settings. GT4 is an experiment a lot of the time, experiment with the tuning options, it's always good to have two memory cards, just copy your save, sell all the cars on one card and just have money to buy and test cars, you can do this forever, since GT4 has no test drive option. Some cars like the Ford GT '05 can have mixed results with roll cages, but when you are good at setting up your car, you can pretty much make it do as you want, just be patient.
 

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