Round 3 Replay Verification - all runs verified!

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Duke

Duke

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Crazy Team - PAL
GT4Portugal - PAL
GTChallenge - PAL/NTSC
GTIRN - PAL/NTSC
GTN - PAL/NTSC
GTPlanet - PAL/NTSC
GTPlay - PAL/NTSC
GTRP - PAL/NTSC
GTTimes - PAL/NTSC
GTWeb - PAL/NTSC
SoGT - PAL
Team GTX - PAL/NTSC
Team Numbers - PAL/NTSC
Torc Talk - PAL/NTSC
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Click here for first post of Results thread - replay links are here.

Deadline for replay submittal for Round 3 is 26 September 2005.

Crazy Team >reviews> GTN * VERIFIED *
GT4Portugal >reviews> No assignment
GTChallenge >reviews> GTPlanet * VERIFIED *
GTIRN >reviews> GTPlay * VERIFIED *
GTN >reviews> GTRP * VERIFIED *
GTPlanet >reviews> GTTimes * VERIFIED *
GTPlay >reviews> GTWeb * VERIFIED *
GTRP >reviews> SoGT * VERIFIED *
GTTimes >reviews> Team GTX * VERIFIED *
GTWeb >reviews> Team Numbers * VERIFIED *
SoGT >reviews> Torc Talk * VERIFIED *
Team GTX >reviews> Crazy Team * VERIFIED *
Team Numbers >reviews> GTChallenge * DISQUALIFIED *
Torc Talk >reviews> GTIRN * VERIFIED *

Please post your review results and questions for Round 3 here. And remember - these are only the minimum reviews. All teams are welcome to examine and verify all replays. This is just to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort if a run is obviously clean or obviously a DQ.
 
@ Rico.. hi mate, we've been assigned your run on the 787 @ SSR5.. Could you tell me is Iceman NTSC? I see his name tag says the states.
If so, we only have one guy on our team with NTSC, so might hold things up.

@ Duke we could take another PAL replay if you wish just say.
 
Hi Tony,

Team Numbers is looking for a second opinion on this one:

Round 3: fantome GTChallenge

There are 2 or 3 close calls on this. Especially on the left hand wall right before T1. He is going full throttle through here, but there is a small speed drop and there is no visible space between the car and the wall. Looks very questionable to me.

I can't provide more details since I didn't personally view the replay.
 
eggmann
Hi Tony,

Team Numbers is looking for a second opinion on this one:

Round 3: fantome GTChallenge

There are 2 or 3 close calls on this. Especially on the left hand wall right before T1. He is going full throttle through here, but there is a small speed drop and there is no visible space between the car and the wall. Looks very questionable to me.

I can't provide more details since I didn't personally view the replay.
Click to expand...

Another Team Numbers driver has viewed this replay:

"I had completely forgotten how useless the replay theater is for checking these wall touches. The 787 is damn fast, and whenever you push the pause button all info's disappear, and you return to the replay in another camera angle. Stupid.

Now to the replay. I would say there's 4 close calls. At the one you mention, just before the T1, he clearly loses time. And it's NOT the invisible wall. He's out in the left wall exiting the turn before T1.

After a couple of reviews I went to SSR5 and uploaded the replay in the Data logger. I can detect 2
eek.gif
clear hits:

1. After the tunnel there's a high speed right-hander. After that there's a slow left-hander (U-turn??). After that you go uphill and there's a fast right-hander. In this fast right-hander he goes over the rumble CLOSE to the wall. Time Approx 17.2 sec. Logger shows distance as 67.5ml. Full throttle and a Speed drop from 118.2 to 114.6 mph.
eek.gif



2. Just before T1 at the straight. Time approx 22.5 sec. Logger shows distance as 90.7ml. Full throttle and a speed drop from 172.5 to 167.4 mph.
eek.gif
"

Unfortunately this run seems deserving of a DQ based on those comments. :( However, it'd still be nice for another team to confirm our findings.
 
Just watched Klinker´s run.

Absolutely stunning.

Great and clean driving.

Verified and valid.👍
 
Eggy, Sorry mate been very busy in RL.
I viewed the replay you spoke of, there were 5 incidents that caught my eye on the first viewing. So I taped it twice from front and back chase angles and viewed it in slow motion. I don't really trust the camera angles too much because what looks a hit from one camera, appears clear on another. So I was examining the speed drops closely.

Replay Round 3
Team: GT Challenge
Driver: Fantome
Comments box: Contre - La - Montre
Time: 0:23:273 / 0:40:908 / 1:01:613

1 @ 0:17:000 Close to the right hand wall. Speed drops from 118 to 114 (4 mph).. no braking input, but speed drop could be the result of riding the kerb, could see no deffinate contact. I'd give this call the thumbs up 👍
0-17-000.jpg



2 @ 0:22:500 speed drops from 172 to 168 (4mph) No braking input. You can't be sure from the camera angles coz what looks a hit from one angle is fine from another camera.. but my gut tells me this could be a slight brush.
0-22-500.jpg

0-22-500a.jpg



3 @ 0:38:500 VERY Close to left hand barrier.. at first glance looked like a deffinate brush.. but NO SPEED DROP.. in fact the speed is climbing all the time and from the snaps it looks clear. 👍
0-38-500.jpg

0-38-500a.jpg



4 @ 0:46:832 Very Close to outter left wall Speed 84, and no drop just looks awfull close. Benifit of the doubt from me 👍
0-46-832.jpg

0-46-832a.jpg



5 @ 0:50:872 Front of car VERY Close to right hand wall. Speed drops from 107 to 105 (2mph) no braking input. But appears as if front of car is moved very slightly. But because this was run on a pad.. you can't be 100% sure if that was as a result of a quick reflex steering input to avoid the wall. Not sure :sick:
0-50-872.jpg

0-50-872a.jpg


In conclusion.. Incidents 1, 3 and 4 I'd pass as clear... 2, I think may be a wall brush and 5 I can't be sure.. I'd really like the other captains oppinions. I don't know how everyone wants to handle it.. because the speed drops are within that 5mph margin.. (Especially number 5) But I was asked to give an oppnion and for a BC hot lap I wouldn't say it's 100% clean.

:nervous: Can open, worms everywhere.
 
Wow...nice analysis, Tone.

Based on what I see from your screenshots, too close to call.

Maybe we can get some more real time feedback from other PAL reviewers.


BTW, our PAL reviewer is having massive Windoze/XPort problems right now. Could another PAL reviewer please take our review of Crazy Team's replay, as soon as it becomes available?
 
OK, I had marked that GTChallenge run as DQ, but I think I will hold off on removing their points from the score sheet until more people view the replay.

From Tony's pictures it looks clean, albeit just barely. So I'm going to change the DQ status to POSSIBLE until we get more opinions.
 
NoQuarter
Wow...nice analysis, Tone.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Based on what I see from your screenshots, too close to call.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't quite agree. For hotlaps, there is no distinction between minor or major offs. So the below 5mph / 8kmh rule doesn't apply for this race:

3.9.1: Hot Laps and FTODs: Given the nature of Hot Lap scenarios, these laps shall be 100% clean. Any Offs or Wall Touches shall result in disqualification of the submitted time. Driver may submit an alternate lap as Hot Lap or FTOD provided it is 100% clean. Multiple Hot Lap scenarios shall fall under the same rules as a Race of similar length as described below.
 
Correct on that score, Arwin. 👍 But in the screenshots there are no clear touches. It's certainly possible that rumble strips or curb contact could account for the slowdowns. It's not truly clear, especially since the run was made with the D-pad according to Tony.

Can we get more reviewers in on this? I'd rather not DQ a run that's close but good, but I definitely don't want to approve a bad run.
 
Ref 3.9.1).. Yeah I thought that was the case Arwin. but to tell the truth at 4am I couldn't be bothered to trawl the small print of the rules.
I'm cool with Dukes decition, I'd hate to see any team get a DQ, really needs a few more experienced eyes to look at it before a concensuss is reached.
 
Another driver from GTBN who's not involved with BC5 other than cheering us on watched the replay: "The guy in the 787 deserves a DQ - how dare he submitting an obviously NOT clean run like this? There are 3-4 possible hits in there and one is without a doubt a wall hit including speed drop - just before the downhill right-left combo leading to the hairpin right at T1, mentioned above. It's a hit, definitely."


I've edited out some of the more colorful comments, but I've had 3 people now tell me that it's not a clean lap. EDIT/ Actually 5 people, counting VV and Mr. Randall.
 
I've forwarded both this run and Werner's to a GTPlanet member who is experienced but not competing. I'm hoping he'll be able to offer some enlightenment as well.
 
If there is a 2mph speed drop that occurs while under full acceleration, there is a touch 100% guaranteed. There is no amount of rumble riding or steering input that can cause a 2mph drop. I can't review the run since I'm on NTSC, but if you zoom in the analyzer to the maximum and look for downward spikes of 1 or more MPH that occur over ONE single frame, thats a touch. I made a thourough explination about this as we had this problem occur in the WRS here in week 18, the relevant post can be found here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1861312&postcount=53

Anyway, that's all I can say personally since I don't have access to a PAL machine, though I will get some opinions from my PAL drivers on the team and see what they say...
 
I've gotten an independent review from a trusted source, and the verdict is WALL TOUCH at the last incident. I'm DQing the run and I will revise the points, unless they submit a slower but valid time that was run before the deadline.
 
Duke
I've gotten an independent review from a trusted source, and the verdict is WALL TOUCH at the last incident. I'm DQing the run and I will revise the points, unless they submit a slower but valid time that was run before the deadline.
Click to expand...

Not to be a dick, but it's not that hard to change a date on the PS2 to make a new run that 'says' it was run before the deadline....
 
I agree with CMF. I don't want to be a dick too but I've never really understood that particular rule.. as far as I know GT4 takes it "Time date stamp" from the PS2 clock.. so I could re-set the clock.. run one tommorow and have it read 3 years ago :). I don't think it's worth messing with the rules now, but maybe something to note for future BC's
 
CFM
If there is a 2mph speed drop that occurs while under full acceleration, there is a touch 100% guaranteed. There is no amount of rumble riding or steering input that can cause a 2mph drop.
Click to expand...

I agree completely with that position, if we are talking about a single-frame speed loss.

Regarding the "backup run" situation, yeah timestamps aren't foolproof. Our team may have a close-call situation coming up, and my idea was to submit the backup time AT THE SAME TIME as the primary time (as in before the deadline), so in the event that the primary run is DQ'd, the fact that the backup time was submitted before the deadline is pretty good proof that the run was also done before the deadline.
 
bobkart
I agree completely with that position, if we are talking about a single-frame speed loss.
Click to expand...

Yea, I meant a 2mph loss from one frame to the next. Should have made that clearer. In all reality, any loss of more than .5 mph or so (which can be caused by powerslides/rumbles) from one frame to the next while under full acceleration, is a touch in all the cases I've seen.
 
bobkart
Our team may have a close-call situation coming up, and my idea was to submit the backup time AT THE SAME TIME as the primary time (as in before the deadline), so in the event that the primary run is DQ'd, the fact that the backup time was submitted before the deadline is pretty good proof that the run was also done before the deadline.
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem with this. GTChallenge appears to have disappeared off the map lately anyway, so I don't think it will be a problem in reality.

I'm not against changing the rules to clarify this.

[edit]

Actually, I just added this clarification to the rules. The bit about the time stamps was never formally included in the rules; it was just something I said somewhere. So now I've made it clear that any alternate laps must be submitted by the original deadline.
 
Didn't check the rules themselves, but from your description of the change in a couple of Topics, you are requiring the alternate REPLAYS to be sent by the race deadline? I propose that simply submitting the alternate TIMES by the race deadline is sufficient, then providing both replays in the normal timely fashion after the deadline. Otherwise drivers with no SharkPort/etc. can't take advantage of this.
 
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