Round 7 Replay Verification - all runs verified!

[Duke]

Crazy Team - PAL
GT4Portugal - PAL
GTChallenge - PAL/NTSC
GTIRN - PAL/NTSC
GTN - PAL/NTSC
GTPlanet - PAL/NTSC
GTPlay - PAL/NTSC
GTRP - PAL/NTSC
GTTimes - PAL/NTSC
GTWeb - PAL/NTSC
SoGT - PAL
Team GTX - PAL/NTSC
Team Numbers - PAL/NTSC
Torc Talk - PAL/NTSC
---------------------

Click here for first post of Results thread - replay links will be here.

Deadline for replay submittal for Round 7 is 04 October 2005.

Crazy Team >reviews> GTRP * VERIFIED *
GT4Portugal >reviews> GTTimes * VERIFIED *
GTChallenge >reviews> GTWeb * VERIFIED *
GTIRN >reviews> SoGT * VERIFIED *
GTN >reviews> Team GTX * DISQUALIFIED *
GTPlanet >reviews> Team Numbers * VERIFIED *
GTPlay >reviews> Torc Talk * VERIFIED *
GTRP >reviews> Crazy Team * VERIFIED *
GTTimes >reviews> GT4Portugal * VERIFIED *
GTWeb >reviews> GTChallenge * VERIFIED *
SoGT >reviews> GTIRN * DISQUALIFIED *
Team GTX >reviews> GTN * VERIFIED *
Team Numbers >reviews> GTPlanet * VERIFIED *
Torc Talk >reviews> GTPlay * VERIFIED *

Please post your review results and questions for Round 7 here. And remember - these are only the minimum reviews. All teams are welcome to examine and verify all replays. This is just to avoid unnecessary duplication of effort if a run is obviously clean or obviously a DQ.

 

[eggmann]

Small_Fryz GTPlanet: It's clean.

 

[Ricolamb]

ColtCobra SoGT: 100 % Clean
he had my same t2...lost 3 thenths and more at the end

 

[Tony Randall]

Soon as the GT Play replay is posted, I'll do our part.

 

[tontonfredo]

Crazy Team >reviews> GTRP
GrooveEngineer's replay it's clean.

 

[VV]

GTWeb >reviews> GTChallenge

The Trasos lap for GTChallenge – 1'02.770 – is clean as expected.

We've watched some other runs.
During the Rico lap for GTIRN - 1'02.212, we’ve noticed a wall touch on the last right turn, just before the finish line, with a speed loss of 2 kph, from 229 to 227 kph.
To be sure of that fact, we have looked at the replay frame by frame using a VHS.
Here are the corresponding videos (QuickTime format) :
- the wall touch : http://sr2.mytempdir.com/176051 (made with one of the “Sync” views)
- the speed loss : http://sr2.mytempdir.com/176056 (made with the classic rear view)

 

[Arwin]

The Trasos lap for GTChallenge – 1'02.770 – is clean as expected.

We've watched some other runs.
During the Rico lap for GTIRN - 1'02.212, we’ve noticed a wall touch on the last right turn, just before the finish line, with a speed loss of 2 kph, from 229 to 227 kph.
To be sure of that fact, we have looked at the replay frame by frame using a VHS.
Here are the corresponding videos (QuickTime format) :
- the wall touch : http://sr2.mytempdir.com/176051 (made with one of the “Sync” views)
- the speed loss : http://sr2.mytempdir.com/176056 (made with the classic rear view)

Aie ... just looking at the walltouch video alone it doesn't look good.

 

[Mr P]

Yes both little clips show exact moments of contact and the speed drop from 229 - 227 ..... unlucky Rico

 

[jmr]

It looks really like a touch, but to be honest I really do not want to see sb DQed for this. I know rules are rules, but....

Well **** it.

 

[tontonfredo]

After having seen the 2 videos, there is contact and a loss speed.
But rules it's rules ...

 

[eggmann]

This is a good eggzample of why I feel that instant DQ is too harsh for 1 minor touch in a hot lap. Maybe we can improve that rule next time around?

Sorry for you, Rico.

 

[Duke]

I would like to have done so in the intial rules formulation but the opinion early on was overwhelmingly against it.

[EDIT] So the consensus is that Rico/GTIRN is disqualified for the touch?

 

[Mistral]

Sad, but true. :/

 

[Duke]

Sad, but true. :/

Well, that's just made the championship standings a bit more interesting...

Rico had actually submitted a faster time as his backup, but he stated that he was not sure if the faster run was clean.

Rico, if you get us the replay of that 1.02.131 you submitted at deadline time, I'm sure everybody would be glad to review it as well on the chance that it is clean.

 

[Mr P]

What does that mean Duke? .... backup??? .... no backups mate surely? or let all the other guys who hit walls in earlier rounds have the same chance

Stupid addition to a Brilliantly run comp so far 👎

A touch is a touch end of story and we seen this in all 5 comps so far!

Unlucky Rico

What Idiot suggested backups? .... LMFAO

 

[eggmann]

Backup times are written in the rules, Ron. They've been there since BC5 started...

 

[Duke]

What does that mean Duke? .... backup??? .... no backups mate surely? or let all the other guys who hit walls in earlier rounds have the same chance

Stupid addition to a Brilliantly run comp so far 👎

A touch is a touch end of story and we seen this in all 5 comps so far!

Unlucky Rico

What Idiot suggested backups? .... LMFAO

I've been getting backup times from many teams. He doesn't have a chance to go back and re-run, or anything, but since he submitted two times before the deadline he's got the opportunity to use the other one since this run has been DQd.

I put the backups in as another way of perhaps making this BC5 slightly less harsh than others have been (kind of like the penalties for multi-lap/AI races). Now eggie has his example of "zero tolerance" among the teams!


Rico stated in his message to me that he didn't think his faster time was clearly clean, so it's probably moot anyway.

 

[Mr P]

Backup times are written in the rules, Ron. They've been there since BC5 started...

Well I'm sorry I joined very late and never checked that $hit rule addition 👎 That is the $hittest rule going ... I mean we know how to check replays and $hit but sending a close call and having a back up just incase its a touch is pathetic 👎

I knew this comp was too good to be true Supposed to be the best drivers around in this comp and IMO they dont need this nursing 👎

Not happy at all .... Congrats to Rico on finding the get out of jail free card

 

[Duke]

Not happy at all .... Congrats to Rico on finding the get out of jail free card

Ron, read my message above. It's not likely to happen.

 

[Mr P]

Ron, read my message above. It's not likely to happen.

Ok I will wait and see the outcome of this before I can decide if I explode some more 👍

 

[Duke]

It wouldn't be a Board Comp without some last-minute drama, no matter how hard I've tried to prevent it. I've already got several other people not talking to me, some I care about and some I don't...

 

[Mr P]

It wouldn't be a Board Comp without some last-minute drama, no matter how hard I've tried to prevent it. I've already got several other people not talking to me, some I care about and some I don't...

Whatever list i'm on Duke ... I care not! 👍 .... that rule Stinks!!!

 

[Ricolamb]

I deleted the 1.02.131 yesterday evening...after checking it some more thousands of times, but it had 2 wheels on the grass, and 2 on the tarmac...beyond a white line on t1 area....
I'm asking a favour to Duke...
add my admin (gtirn) to this private section please, in quality of bord owner...
luigi864...he has some things to say and a full set of photos to show...
I think the only way to be used to determine touches for those races is Game's tools, cos my eyes aren't vcr's...
Game tools are 2 to my view:
1st if I feel a vibration in that moment, I didn't feel it, but that's nothing provable
2nd is photomode...
I'd like that the touch could be demonstered with photos...
please duke add Luigi asap, he has to say some things, and I'll translate his post

 

[Arwin]

Ok I will wait and see the outcome of this before I can decide if I explode some more 👍

Wise decision. The current BC, with its arcade runs and many, many hotlaps, is a very accessible one. That has advantages and disadvantages. I have my own preferences, but it seems to work fine and seems ok since this is our first year of BC in GT4. The backup rule suits the general spirit of this BC very well. So far the boards have behaved admirably. GTRP has withdrawn a run that after careful consideration revealed a 3km/h speed drop. That's very strict, but it is a testament to the hard work the team puts in to make sure the run is clean. The other boards do the same. Still, things can go wrong, unfortunately, and in the case of GTIRN, there is much less experience with such close scrutiny of replays. This is understandable - boards with a long tradition of OLR, or with a lot of use of databases, are experienced and very strict because they have learnt that they need to have strict rules, and need to be very clear about them. Some of them have been reluctant or even blatantly refused to use the backup rule.

But other boards don't have the same background. Even then, things can go wrong. For this, the backup rule all in all seems a good solution. However, Rico hasn't used it - he knew the first run wasn't ok, so he wasted his chance at a backup by sending it in anyway. He's punished incredibly harshly for the 2km/h speeddrop now, but has brought it on himself a little bit by failing to use the backup system properly. I don't want to rub salt in the wounds further, as the consequences of this now are much larger than I think most of us would wish on anyone.

Jmr's response is the correct one. I want you to look deep into your heart, Ron, and think whether now you aren't so eager to see this DNF follow through because it means GTPlanet has a shot at the title. This is the same for GTN. The same for GTWeb. And the same for GTTimes. But this is not the way you want to beat an opponent, and there is no reason to be cruel about it. GTweb have been smug about it, and that is sad enough in itself. They shouldn't have needed something like this, and that they do, to me, means that they have lost. It is fine that they are strict about verifying replays, but the way they have behaved themselves about it does not match the high opinion I have had of them of the many previous years of BC and other competitions.

 

[Mistral]

You could have used the analyzer and see the speed curb. As soon as I have a doubt, that's the second place I go after viewing the replay itself. You could have seen that speed drop, that's quite obvious to me. I almost been DQed for 0.1kph (GT3 US only has MPH, so it gives 0.06 and it can't be detected with the analyzer).

 

[Ricolamb]

when have u been almost DQed for 0.1?

 

[Mistral]

We should have an external verification commitee to the BC. Same for administrative stuff.

 

[Mistral]

when have u been almost DQed for 0.1?

An internal championship we had long ago on GTweb.

 

[Tony Randall]

I'm just posting as part of the review committe.

After having a look at it. I made a wmv video of the incident direct from slo mo vid. I had mph showing, and it drops from 142 to 141 just for an instant..right on the apex. (which as CFM said usually indicates a touch) trouble is, I don't have any web space to upload it But I'm sure VV's shows the same.

I did run the replay a zillion times to pause on the closest part, and when it comes to the pics, again what looked a deffinate touch from one angle shows a gap on another. These three pics are from the exact same spot on the replay.. just different angles.

 

[Ricolamb]

that's exactly what we're doing Tony, we can't find any touch on photos...from any angle of cameras, it just SEEMS on the replay, the so little los of speed is certainly due to the curb, nothing more unless there's an invisible wall, cos I can see light among wall and car in every frigging photos, angle, camera
don't u think I checked it before sending?