Also, seems like Toyota in general keeps surprising people.
It wasn't that new since it was tried a few times in motorsport, the most recent effort previous to 2006 being the Taurus Sport Lola Caterpiller.
Yeah, The Tokaichi 24 HR. The challenge is that it was done with a proven Race car, whereas to attain victory at this particular race and to go for overall victory against the likes of Audi and Peugeot, they need to design a completely new car and apply the technolegy of the Hybrid.
Is it just me or is everything I wished for sudddenly coming true? First Acura returns to sportscars in ALMS to compete in LMP2, then Peugeot Returns to Le mans, then A Maserati, despite only doing it three races last year, races in the ALMS, and now Toyota comes back? Its christmas for me again!
@ Earth: Your back!
That's a funny way of saying "heavier car with little fuel benefits." Regardless of if you believe in hybrid fuel benefits, a track with made up mostly of sweeping turns and a straight that is a couple of miles long isn't going to give that much advantage to a system proven to work around stop and go driving.
I am well aware of that. Here's a great explanation by Laylas Keeper.
For chrissakes, THE ROTARY ENGINE WAS NEVER BANNED AT LE MANS!!!!!!!!!!!!
How many times do I have to drag up pictures of Kudzus, Courages, and other WSC cars that used rotaries? I mean, seriously folks. What happened was a change in class format that rendered the Wankel uncompetitive due to restructuring.
And in fact the 787B compared to the other Group C cars of the time (especially the TWR Jaguars and Sauber Mercedes) was dog slow - slower than the Aston Martin AMR1 - and it was fuel efficiency and reliability in a freak year that landed Mazda the win.
Mazda knew that the N/A four row was down on power, and experimented with a turbo rotary GTP/Group C car in IMSA competition. It was fast but fragile, and gained a reputation in IMSA for setting itself on fire. However, the Crawford (yes, the Daytona Prototype chassis constructor Crawford) chassis was excellent and Mazda Motorsport was sure they could get the wrinkles ironed out.
Unfortunately for them, Cat. 1 came down heavy on turbochargers, favoring (as the ACO often does) the French Peugeot team. And so, in desperation to continue their winning ways, Mazda put their name on a TWR Cat 1 chassis with a Judd V10 engine. A 4th place finish was the reward for their trouble.
The Mazdaspeed boys took the next three years off and came back in 1995 with a Kudzu chassis WSC car. They nailed down 7th overall, which was not bad for going from custom 5.2L 4 row rotaries to a 3.0L 4 row version of the venerable 13B.
In 1996 Mazda re-motored again, going to the 20B three row and a different Kudzu chassis, going after the new LMP2 category, which they won although the result was a 25th overall finish amidst the remaining WSC cars, the abundance of GT1's, and the new LMP1's.
1997 the rotary presence was reduced to a privateer LMP1 Kudzu effort, but that team still brought the car home 17th overall.
This has been the pattern since then. Privateer entries, variations on the 13B, and Kudzu chassis. Now, though Mazda has funded an ALMS Courage/Renesis combination which scored an LMP2 class win at Mid-Ohio. The rotary has never left Le Mans. It has been restricted, bumped up in class, and lost support from a financially strapped Mazda racing budget, but certainly was never banned from Le Mans.
This just keeps getting better and better!
You expect Toyota hybrids to not be restricted from the get go, especially with Peugeot in the fold? Besides, unless Toyota does something truly spectacular in the hybrid fold, 15% better fuel mileage than the diesels (ignoring the shrunken fuel tank capacity) is essentially an impossibility.
Toyota lost in 1999 because they blew a tire going down the Mulssane with a half hour left. The car could have been 10 seconds a lap faster and it wouldn't have made any difference at that point.
The first year won't see Toyota racking up any wins either, unless the two current heavyweights stumble big and Toyota gets everything right simultaneously.
Because even with it it would make little difference. The diesels have proven to be able to walk the race with the shrunken fuel tanks. Why would a car that is still down on torque to the diesels yet only marginally more fuel efficient (and most likely not too much lighter) be any different? Simply because Toyota threw money at it?
Changing things from "comically fast ringer" to "most likely faster than everyone else" doesn't really mean much.
You are ignoring the fact that none of the things Toyota knows now that Panoz may not have known in 1998 will make any difference. Hybrids are still very heavy, they are still very complex, and they still make very little difference in WOT driving. It is an inherent problem with the technology, and I don't think Toyota pouring money into it will change that. Not when a decade of trying to do so in road cars hasn't.
Hybrids never had superior fuel economy, so it is a moot point. A Toyota hybrid will (I'd say 10 to 1 odds) get marginally better fuel economy than the normal petrol cars, but will weigh more than enough to completely nullify that fact.
Not really, but I can dream and draw thoughNissan.co.jp
Could someone explain what is this Hybrid technolegy to me? I kind of forgot about it reading this thread.
And have you guys noticed japan's slow return to sportscar? Mazda in 2005, Acura in 2007, now Toyota in 2008. I just waiting for nissan now:
Not really, but I can dream and draw though
Just going back to the Lola coupe, did you guys know it will be running the 6.0 V12 from the Aston Martin DBR9? Mmm, tasty....
Just going back to the Lola coupe, did you guys know it will be running the 6.0 V12 from the Aston Martin DBR9? Mmm, tasty....
