Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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Don't know if this is the most appropriate thread for this, but its a developing story and what looks like an accident may turn out to be deliberate.

For those not from the UK who may not have seen this on their news, a cargo ship has collided with a fuel tanker in the British Channel. The fuel tanker, used by the US military to transport jet fuel for the many US airbases in the UK, was anchored off the coast awaiting a berth when it was broadsided by a cargo ship on its way from Scotland to the Netherlands, killing one. It wasn't particularly poor weather conditions so it was initially put down as gross negligence on the part of the cargo ship's captain, who after being rescued was arrested. Turns out that the captain is Russian...

Now, not saying there's anything political in this, but its quite the coincidence.
 
Joey D
Because there are only so many countries that make military equipment. The smaller stuff like rifles, APCs, scout vehicles, and things like that can be made by almost any country. Things like fighter jets and bombers can't. This is why Europe will continue to use the F-35 since the only other alternatives come from Russia or China.
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Europe and Japan have maintained some level of aerospace defense industry so they're not completely starting from nothing when it comes to things like fighter production. The US was in a bit of a unique position in the 90's and early 2000's since it capitalized on stealth aircraft before anyone else. Not to mention that it wasn't run by a complete idiot looking to destroy the foreign relations that the US benefits from so much. It looks like for the next generation of combat aircraft under development we might see more variety and these programs could get a big push from an unstable and unreasonable US. Replacing the F-35 right now would be pretty tough though. Eurofighter has been trying to pitch the EF-2000 against the F-35 for years now with little success. It may see an uptick in sales if continuing with the F-35 program is deemed risky but the EF-2000 is an older plane at this point. It should be fine against Russian aircraft and the bulk of Chinese aircraft, but may struggle against the latest Chinese fighters and high end SAM systems.

Naval capability is what might lag the most with the US Navy having the only supercarriers and being the largest operator of carriers by far. I'm also unsure of missile defense capabilities for non US ships, the US Navy has put a lot of work into that area.
 
Exorcet
Europe and Japan have maintained some level of aerospace defense industry so they're not completely starting from nothing when it comes to things like fighter production. The US was in a bit of a unique position in the 90's and early 2000's since it capitalized on stealth aircraft before anyone else. Not to mention that it wasn't run by a complete idiot looking to destroy the foreign relations that the US benefits from so much. It looks like for the next generation of combat aircraft under development we might see more variety and these programs could get a big push from an unstable and unreasonable US. Replacing the F-35 right now would be pretty tough though. Eurofighter has been trying to pitch the EF-2000 against the F-35 for years now with little success. It may see an uptick in sales if continuing with the F-35 program is deemed risky but the EF-2000 is an older plane at this point. It should be fine against Russian aircraft and the bulk of Chinese aircraft, but may struggle against the latest Chinese fighters and high end SAM systems.

Naval capability is what might lag the most with the US Navy having the only supercarriers and being the largest operator of carriers by far. I'm also unsure of missile defense capabilities for non US ships, the US Navy has put a lot of work into that area.
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There are two 'European' 6th Gen fighters in development right now. France, Germany, Spain and Belgium have one in the early stages. Whilst Britain, Italy and Japan have another but isn't due to be in service until 2035. Not seen an expected date for the other one. Both are FCAS so designed to be manned with accompanying drones. So proper 6th gen stuff
 
TheCracker
Don't know if this is the most appropriate thread for this, but its a developing story and what looks like an accident may turn out to be deliberate.

For those not from the UK who may not have seen this on their news, a cargo ship has collided with a fuel tanker in the British Channel. The fuel tanker, used by the US military to transport jet fuel for the many US airbases in the UK, was anchored off the coast awaiting a berth when it was broadsided by a cargo ship on its way from Scotland to the Netherlands, killing one. It wasn't particularly poor weather conditions so it was initially put down as gross negligence on the part of the cargo ship's captain, who after being rescued was arrested. Turns out that the captain is Russian...

Now, not saying there's anything political in this, but its quite the coincidence.
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Sounds like a plot from Tom Clancy's universe, just Trump is very negative of Jack Ryan:
"....Putting his plot into motion, Li recruits General Xu Jinlong, the head of the Central Security Bureau, to sabotage a Chinese commercial ship, which later explodes near American waters; the nearby United States Coast Guard on the northern West Coast manages to rescue most of its crew after it sank, but ten men are either dead or missing. The incident was meant to be the first step toward provoking the United States, but President Ryan urges caution."

Tom Clancy's Power and Empire
 
I'm guessing he means himself then?
Screenshot_20250313-164729.png
 
I'm guessing Putin's conditions are going to be reflective of recent comments by Trump, as Trump is his asset:

Elections in Ukraine
All territory claimed by Russia will be Russian
All territory claimed by Ukraine will be Russian
Ukraine guarantee to never join NATO
No security guarantees for Ukraine
Some enforced disarmament of Ukraine (probably eliminating drone stockpiles or some ****)
No Russian concessions other than pausing the war

Trump will tout it as the greatest deal in the history of mankind. Russia will then either - A: corrupt the election to install a pro-Kremlin puppet with Trump's tacit approval, or B: resume the war in a few years after they have built up their forces while Ukraine's hands are tied.

I feel this is all very inevitable while Putin and Trump, the two people with 95% of the leverage in this situation remain in power. Ukraine has no power and Europe has even less.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
I'm guessing Putin's conditions are going to be reflective of recent comments by Trump, as Trump is his asset:

Elections in Ukraine
All territory claimed by Russia will be Russian
All territory claimed by Ukraine will be Russian
Ukraine guarantee to never join NATO
No security guarantees for Ukraine
Some enforced disarmament of Ukraine (probably eliminating drone stockpiles or some ****)
No Russian concessions other than pausing the war

Trump will tout it as the greatest deal in the history of mankind. Russia will then either - A: corrupt the election to install a pro-Kremlin puppet with Trump's tacit approval, or B: resume the war in a few years after they have built up their forces while Ukraine's hands are tied.

I feel this is all very inevitable while Putin and Trump, the two people with 95% of the leverage in this situation remain in power. Ukraine has no power and Europe has even less.
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Basically, these are all Putin's conditions and unless there is someone else in the room, Trump will capitulate immediately.
 
The phone call...
Putin: "I want it all."
Trump: "ohkay."
Trump´s art of the deal: "give him as much as possible so that the bully stops today and instead continues tomorrow."

Rest of the world: "there can be no negotiating where Russia can make any demand."
 
Trump will always be butthurt that Zelenskij didn't cave in when, in 2019, he was the then-unknown President of Ukraine who refused to collaborate with Trump's vendetta against the Bidens. It's never going to sit right with him that somebody, this somebody, told him no.
 
Liquid
Trump will always be butthurt that Zelenskij didn't cave in when, in 2019, he was the then-unknown President of Ukraine who refused to collaborate with Trump's vendetta against the Bidens. It's never going to sit right with him that somebody, this somebody, told him no.
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Meanwhile, Putin told him no and he accepted it.
 
Touring Mars
www.theguardian.com

Ukraine war briefing: Zelenskyy says US ‘very surprised’ after Chinese fighters captured on frontline

Ukraine president says more than 150 Chinese involved in fighting for Russia; US lawmakers criticise reports of planned troop pullbacks in Europe. What we know on day 1,142
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

shocked philip j fry GIF
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I dunno, I'm pretty sure China would prefer to not be explicitly involved at all.

But I assume this isn't much different to the US and UK citizens who have volunteered to go over and fight on the Ukrainian side. Their participation doesn't really imply anything about the stance of their government on the war other than that it hasn't been made outright illegal to help as a private citizen.

For example:

Don't get me wrong, China probably helps Russia if they help anyone. But China helps itself first, and I see little advantage to China sticking it's neck out for Russia in the form of active aid. They're probably quite happy to sell Russia arms and the like, while the conflict bleeds resources from both Russia and NATO. They come out ahead by doing absolutely nothing.
 
Imari
I dunno, I'm pretty sure China would prefer to not be explicitly involved at all.

But I assume this isn't much different to the US and UK citizens who have volunteered to go over and fight on the Ukrainian side. Their participation doesn't really imply anything about the stance of their government on the war other than that it hasn't been made outright illegal to help as a private citizen.
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Perhaps it was recon to experience a contemporary form of warfare for when they inevitably invade Taiwan?

Aside from a few minor skirmishes, the Chinese army haven't fought since the late 70's.

They hold all the cards with Russia. I don't see any other reason to put men on the ground in Ukraine.
 
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There are no allies in Washington.

U.S. proposes recognizing Crimea as Russian ahead of new round of talks


KYIV — Ukrainian and European officials meeting in London on Wednesday will be faced with a fast-moving U.S. proposal to recognize Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea and freeze the war’s front lines as part of a peace agreement, according to several people familiar with internal deliberations.

Ukraine’s allies are hoping to win security guarantees and reconstruction programs for the embattled country in exchange for any such territorial concessions.

The U.S. proposals, presented to Ukraine in Paris last week, include having Washington formally recognize annexed Crimea as Russian territory and eventually lifting sanctions against Russia under a future accord, according to three people familiar with the matter. In exchange, Moscow would end hostilities in Ukraine at a time when Russia’s military enjoys battlefield momentum and sizable advantages in troop strength and weaponry.

An adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said the American proposals included some ideas that Kyiv agrees with and others it does not. A Western official said the terms of the proposed deal and concessions expected of Ukraine were “astounding.” Like others, they spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive diplomatic conversations.

A State Department official downplayed the idea that Washington was presenting a fait accompli to Kyiv, but the Trump administration’s increasingly public frustration with the pace of the talks has left Kyiv fearful of another downturn in relations with Washington. “The only thing they seem to be allowed is to keep their army,” the official said of Ukraine.

As negotiations pick up pace, with U.S. officials threatening to walk away within days, pressure is mounting on Kyiv. French, British and German negotiators, who have taken a more active hand in peace talks, are expected to press Ukraine’s case in London by urging that any deal include security guarantees and postwar reconstruction programs, possibly paid for in part with frozen Russian assets.


How to tell the world that you really want to lick Putin's genitals to show him how much of little bitch you are.

It would be best if the USA completely stops with the negotiations ASAP as it only benefits the orcs and the orange ****tard and his anusworms.
 
I cannot imagine Rubio is stupid enough to just let the moronic duo hand Ukraine to Russia on a silver platter.
 
It's sickening how Trump and his odious administration are blaming Zelenskyy for supposedly 'prolonging the war' by merely saying that he's not prepared to hand over vast swathes of his country to an invading aggressor state, and yet Russia can fire over 200 missiles, rockets and drones at Kyiv in one night and all Trump can say is 'Stop!'.

So, Donald, short of asking him nicely, how do you propose to make Putin stop?

The answer appears to be 'give Putin whatever he wants and he'll stop attacking the rest of Ukraine' - but what if that doesn't work?

By handing victory to Putin, legitimising Russia's aggression, and stopping Ukraine from defending itself further, why on Earth would Putin stop? If anything, it will do the exact opposite and embolden Putin massively.
 
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Touring Mars
It's sickening how Trump and his odious administration are blaming Zelenskyy for supposedly 'prolonging the war' by merely saying that he's not prepared to hand over vast swathes of his country to an invading aggressor state, and yet Russia can fire over 200 missiles, rockets and drones at Kyiv in one night and all Trump can say is 'Stop!'.

So, Donald, short of asking him nicely, how do you propose to make Putin stop?

The answer appears to be 'give Putin whatever he wants and he'll stop attacking the rest of Ukraine' - but what if that doesn't work?

By handing victory to Putin, legitimising Russia's aggression, and stopping Ukraine from defending itself further, why on Earth would Putin stop? If anything, it will do the exact opposite and embolden Putin massively.
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And now he's just yelling at Putin to stop on social media. He has no leg to stand on against Putin because he has no idea how to threaten someone who is more powerful than him.
 
Touring Mars
It's sickening how Trump and his odious administration are blaming Zelenskyy for supposedly 'prolonging the war' by merely saying that he's not prepared to hand over vast swathes of his country to an invading aggressor state, and yet Russia can fire over 200 missiles, rockets and drones at Kyiv in one night and all Trump can say is 'Stop!'.

So, Donald, short of asking him nicely, how do you propose to make Putin stop?

The answer appears to be 'give Putin whatever he wants and he'll stop attacking the rest of Ukraine' - but what if that doesn't work?

By handing victory to Putin, legitimising Russia's aggression, and stopping Ukraine from defending itself further, why on Earth would Putin stop? If anything, it will do the exact opposite and embolden Putin massively.
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But that is all Trump can do.

World leaders regularly converse and negotiate with eachother, share opinions and tips on various global issues. The problem is the rest of the world doesn't view Trump as a world leader. They entertain his calls when they come. They say whatever he wants them to say until he goes away, then they go back to doing whatever they were doing. Trump is just a loud, orange annoyance.

If Trump made any proposals to end the war, Putin and Zelensky both would just push him aside. They both have their own agendas, both have their own goals and Trump is listening to neither, and they aren't listening to him.

All Trump can do is what is essentially a publicity stunt - to be seen to be publicly "trying" to end the war, as that makes him look less useless on the world stage than he actually is. His "capitulation" to Putin, to me, is simply Trump trying to back what he sees as the winning side in the hopes that they will be his friend after all is said and done.
 
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Blitz24
And now he's just yelling at Putin to stop on social media. He has no leg to stand on against Putin because he has no idea how to threaten someone who is more powerful than him.
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And that's the funny thing. Trump literally has access to more power, soft and hard, than Putin does. In a conflict of pretty much any sort, America wins. But because in Trump's mind Putin is this unstoppable force he cannot imagine actually seriously opposing him.
 
Imari
And that's the funny thing. Trump literally has access to more power, soft and hard, than Putin does. In a conflict of pretty much any sort, America wins. But because in Trump's mind Putin is this unstoppable force he cannot imagine actually seriously opposing him.
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Putin very certianly has one thing that wins over Trump: unfavourable audio/video recordings.
 
Trump "does not intend to help Ukraine and seeks to reset relations with Russia", said parliamentary security committee member Serhiy Rakhmanin in a Radio NV interview on May 24.


MAGAts are still under the delusional belief that Trump will get tough on Russia. they haven't quite come to terms that Trump is firmly on Putin's side. And a lot of them straight up prefer Russia to the west and especially to liberal or left leaning Americans. Russia is a macho masculinism obsessed country of white people and traditional values with an authoritarian strongman leader and fascistic brutal tendencies. They eat it right up.
 

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