Safety Rating

[TomBrady]

How do people feel about it?

I love it at the same time I hate it. Well to be specific, I hate one part of it.

It's a great thing and probably the biggest reason why iracing has the best online racing. It forces people to behave, and it forces people to treat it like it's real racing.

For me though, it has been just a big cause for stress. I think it's totally necessary and I would like to see it in all sims. However, the one thing that bothers me is the stupid off track penalties. I just don't understand why they're so necessary. It's one thing if you actually go off track, like 3 or 4 tires in the grass, but they give it to you if a 3rd tire goes onto the rumble strip and I think that's harsh. The black flag system that forces you to slow down if you cut a corner prevents people from trying to shortcut, so what's the point of penalizing us for going a tiny bit off track? Seriously I don't get why iracing thinks it's worth 1x. Honestly I would rather get the black flag and have to slow down than to get that stupid off track penalty.

Maybe it's just me but it's something I wanted to discuss because it's really been getting on my nerves lately.

 

[Jav]

That's the thing, people might try to and get away in some instances with putting wheels off wich will lead to spins, dive bombs and crazy driving. They really force you to drive properly arround the track and in doing so make you more aware of where you are on track at all times and more importantly what effect your driving will have related to the other cars on track. Ultimately you'll become a safer and faster driver without having to put wheels off anywhere. Once you get used to it you don't even mind it at all and apreciate it more and more.

 

[gordie44]

And question from someone who is not an iRacer (yet, i need to get me a proper computer first):

When first starting out, is there any way to get a negative (as in less than 0) rating?
Meaning, if it takes me a couple weeks to get used to absolutely not crashing at all, will it take me that much longer to move up a level because of any accidents I may have had?

In GT5 I try not to 'rub and race' (not a dirty pun I swear), but it does happen more than I'd like. I have read of people creating a fake account and then 'practicing' on that, but is that really necessary?

Looking forward to working on my racecraft with you guys soon, but this is an issue that's been bugging me for a bit. Thanks!

 

[left888]

I don't mind it at all. Going off the track and getting an incident is a reminder to me to improve. I know I am slower at iRacing then I was at GT5 because I try to drive safer. For the most part I think it works very good.

I do get frustrated when people hit me without regards to safety, sometimes I feel like a magnet to the ram rods and get 6 or 7 incidents against me for no fault of my own. It certainly seperates iRacing from other online sim games.

 

[noshog]

I have read of people creating a fake account and then 'practicing' on that, but is that really necessary?

No, you can practice pretty much any car you want without harming your safety rating.
Your Safety rating wont go below zero, but at a certain level you can be demoted to a lower class, just don't do anything silly and wont have anything to worry about. You won't regret joining iRacing for a minute 👍

Re: the OP, I don't have any issues with the off tracks, but admit some of them are a little harsh. I think it does make you want to improve yourself every time you hit the track.

 

[fatkrakr]

I agree the off tracks help with the dive bombing. As is now you can protect the inside line and still leave some room between you and the tracks edge. With no off tracks it would be almost impossible to protect it as anyone could just use the grass to get the position on you for corner exit. Still can be annoying to get the points for the "close" off track incidents.

 

[MVR08]

How do people feel about it?

I love it at the same time I hate it. Well to be specific, I hate one part of it.

It's a great thing and probably the biggest reason why iracing has the best online racing. It forces people to behave, and it forces people to treat it like it's real racing.


Maybe it's just me but it's something I wanted to discuss because it's really been getting on my nerves lately.

Not always the case I'll tell you, for example I have a SR over 4.00 and if I really want to win a race, there's nothing stopping me from rear-end someone or driving reckless to achieve my goal. I can swallow the penalty and gain the SR in others races very easy, actually there's one guy who does just that. I'm gonna upload a video of it.

 

[TomBrady]

That's the thing, people might try to and get away in some instances with putting wheels off wich will lead to spins, dive bombs and crazy driving. They really force you to drive properly arround the track and in doing so make you more aware of where you are on track at all times and more importantly what effect your driving will have related to the other cars on track. Ultimately you'll become a safer and faster driver without having to put wheels off anywhere. Once you get used to it you don't even mind it at all and apreciate it more and more.

Well, I don't mean to say I want them gone completely, but I wish they were either less strict, or they forced you to slow down with the black flag like when you short cut. At least then you wouldn't have to worry about your SR. Actually another problem I have is that the higher your license gets, the more you get penalized for incidents. 1x for a class B has a much bigger effect than someone with a class D. I've noticed since I became a C class, the few incidents I have are really killing me, and I no longer can have some races where I try to win, every race now my only goal is to have a perfect race. I let people by if they seem to be as fast or faster than me, and I almost never try to make passes happen. I'm a very competitive person so doing this is boring me. Of course, I wouldn't have off tracks if I practiced each series for 45min or an hour before I race but i don't have time for that, and I like to race a lot of different series.

I just think when you reach the point where all the incidents are effecting your SR more, they should be a little less strict with the stupid off tracks.

I don't mind it at all. Going off the track and getting an incident is a reminder to me to improve. I know I am slower at iRacing then I was at GT5 because I try to drive safer. For the most part I think it works very good.

I do get frustrated when people hit me without regards to safety, sometimes I feel like a magnet to the ram rods and get 6 or 7 incidents against me for no fault of my own. It certainly seperates iRacing from other online sim games.

Honestly, as much as I hate getting penalized for some idiot hitting me, being impatient or being a lap 1 hero, I'm still ok with the fact that iracing doesn't assign blame. It's another thing that really improves the way people behave. That's something I would never change, but the degree of the off track penalties I would change, or replace them with black flags. I would rather have to slow down than have to stress about my SR.

And question from someone who is not an iRacer (yet, i need to get me a proper computer first):

When first starting out, is there any way to get a negative (as in less than 0) rating?
Meaning, if it takes me a couple weeks to get used to absolutely not crashing at all, will it take me that much longer to move up a level because of any accidents I may have had?

In GT5 I try not to 'rub and race' (not a dirty pun I swear), but it does happen more than I'd like. I have read of people creating a fake account and then 'practicing' on that, but is that really necessary?

Looking forward to working on my racecraft with you guys soon, but this is an issue that's been bugging me for a bit. Thanks!

Well I don't think you can below zero but really, it's pretty hard to get even down below 1 if you're a rookie. People in the upper classes get down that low because incidents have a much bigger effect then, but you would really have to be in a ton of incidents to even go below 1.

Also, you can do solo test runs, and go into open practices with other races, and neither effect your SR. The main thing is even for experienced iracers, practice driving the car and track BEFORE you enter races. Once you get into the groove, the incidents really don't happen often.

I agree the off tracks help with the dive bombing. As is now you can protect the inside line and still leave some room between you and the tracks edge. With no off tracks it would be almost impossible to protect it as anyone could just use the grass to get the position on you for corner exit. Still can be annoying to get the points for the "close" off track incidents.

I don't want them to do away with off tracks totally, I just would like them to either be a little less strict for class C and up drivers, or replace them with black flags. If off tracks gave you a black flag, nobody would try dive bombing because it would be pointless considering you'd end up giving the position back when you slowed down anyway.

 

[MVR08]

I uploaded a video to prove my point is in the iRacing.com thread.

 

[Imari]

Admittedly, there are instances of the off-track line being really way too strict. Pouhon for example, unless they've moved it since last season.

However, the idea of off-track penalties is a good one. I think most people can see what it achieves. It's a disincentive to overdrive the car. Even if you're under control, you're centimetres from having a major off-road excursion and potentially a danger to those around you. What's more, if you keep pushing faster you're likely to have something worse happen. The 1x is a sign to back off a bit before you end up with a 2x or a 4x.

Furled blacks are to stop people shortcutting the course. Off-track penalties are to keep people in control. They serve different purposes.

 

[Roush_fan_99]

Admittedly, there are instances of the off-track line being really way too strict. Pouhon for example, unless they've moved it since last season.

Exit of last turn @ laguna seca, even if you are still on the green part of the curb, it's an off track, but it's not totally aggravating to me

 

[TomBrady]

Exit of last turn @ laguna seca, even if you are still on the green part of the curb, it's an off track, but it's not totally aggravating to me

Also suzuka, last chicane, right turn entry. If even 1 tire goes over the rumble strip, 1x. Also on straightaways, 2 tires in grass 1x.

I understand the point of them, but they're way too strict and frankly I'm done with iracing for a while. Ever since I got my C class the whole sim has been nothing but frustration. It's not fun anymore. If they're going to make incidents hurt your SR more the higher your license gets, they need to reduce the effect of the stupid off tracks. My SR shouldn't be dropping just because of a couple off tracks in a race, it's ridiculous.

 

[Imari]

I understand the point of them, but they're way too strict and frankly I'm done with iracing for a while. Ever since I got my C class the whole sim has been nothing but frustration. It's not fun anymore. If they're going to make incidents hurt your SR more the higher your license gets, they need to reduce the effect of the stupid off tracks. My SR shouldn't be dropping just because of a couple off tracks in a race, it's ridiculous.

You're taking SR way too seriously. As long as you're trying to race clean it will maintain itself, unless you're trying to drive way past the limits of your skill.

An A class licence requires you to average about 4-5 incidents per race, from memory. There's plenty of room for a couple of off-tracks in there. A C class is even more lenient.

When you start in rookie your SR change from a race is entirely dependent on the incidents in that race. You have no history. By the time you're C class, you have enough history that you're pushing some races off the end of the table. You can have a 3 incident race, and the effect on your SR will be totally different depending on whether you push off a 15 incident race or a 0 incident race. Note that it actually counts this stuff on a per corner basis, I'm just generalising it to races because I think it's easier to think about it in blocks like that.

But yeah, I think if you're not having fun you should either take a break or reconsider how you're playing the game. You say that you don't have enough time to practise, and that you like to play multiple series. That's fine, lots of people like that. You also mention that you're getting bored because you can't be competitive in races, and I assume this is why you'd want off-tracks gone so that you could be more aggressive and chase top 5s and wins.

It's a triple constraint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_triangle). You have "Many Series", "Little Practise", and "Being Competitive". You can only really have any two of these. If you want to be competitive you need to put in either serious amounts of practise or limit yourself to one or two series. I practise very little, but I only really competitively run the V8s, and drop into the Mustang and Skip Barber races casually when I have time.


Honestly, I took a break from iRacing for a couple of months after I had a horrible run of SR drops, ending with some dick rear ending me twice on a rolling start before the green flag. Went from 4.xx to 1.xx in the space of about a week and a half. I was so pissed at everyone and the system in general that it wasn't any fun at all. I took a break, and it was the right choice. Now I enjoy iRacing again, I'm building my SR and iRating back up and it's really fun.

 

[Waheed]

I know this is off-topic, but is there a way to understand the SR more ? I kinda skipped the introduction because I had problems installing iRacing

 

[Imari]

http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/2220.page

 

[Waheed]

http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/2220.page

thanks 👍

 

[TomBrady]

You're taking SR way too seriously. As long as you're trying to race clean it will maintain itself, unless you're trying to drive way past the limits of your skill.

An A class licence requires you to average about 4-5 incidents per race, from memory. There's plenty of room for a couple of off-tracks in there. A C class is even more lenient.

When you start in rookie your SR change from a race is entirely dependent on the incidents in that race. You have no history. By the time you're C class, you have enough history that you're pushing some races off the end of the table. You can have a 3 incident race, and the effect on your SR will be totally different depending on whether you push off a 15 incident race or a 0 incident race. Note that it actually counts this stuff on a per corner basis, I'm just generalising it to races because I think it's easier to think about it in blocks like that.

But yeah, I think if you're not having fun you should either take a break or reconsider how you're playing the game. You say that you don't have enough time to practise, and that you like to play multiple series. That's fine, lots of people like that. You also mention that you're getting bored because you can't be competitive in races, and I assume this is why you'd want off-tracks gone so that you could be more aggressive and chase top 5s and wins.

It's a triple constraint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_management_triangle). You have "Many Series", "Little Practise", and "Being Competitive". You can only really have any two of these. If you want to be competitive you need to put in either serious amounts of practise or limit yourself to one or two series. I practise very little, but I only really competitively run the V8s, and drop into the Mustang and Skip Barber races casually when I have time.


Honestly, I took a break from iRacing for a couple of months after I had a horrible run of SR drops, ending with some dick rear ending me twice on a rolling start before the green flag. Went from 4.xx to 1.xx in the space of about a week and a half. I was so pissed at everyone and the system in general that it wasn't any fun at all. I took a break, and it was the right choice. Now I enjoy iRacing again, I'm building my SR and iRating back up and it's really fun.

Well if I have 4 offtracks in a race, even a 30min race, my SR will drop.

I don't think it's that I'm trying to go beyond my talents, I just think that I, like most people, need a lot of practice to have incident free races. I don't spin out, I don't have collisions, yet my SR went from 3.60, to 2.43 in 2 days last week. I know 50 of those points were taken off from when I went below 3.00, but even still. I was trying to get to 4.00 to get my B license. B is really the last license I want and even though I joined races only to improve my SR and not to win, let people pass me, started from the pits, and only had the goal of having an incident free race, I still couldn't get it past 4, it just dropped.

It's just extremely annoying to me that stupid little off tracks, sometimes not even 2 full tires off can cause this. It can be as little as 2 half tires off and you can get 1x. It's insane. I've talked to people in iracing too and I'm not the only person who feels this way. They're just too strict. It's human nature to make mistakes, and the way I see it, if they're only minor mistakes, why should we be punished that badly for it? My SR dropped from 3.60 to 2.43, and I literally only was hit by someone else about 4 times, and spun out twice and had zero of my own collisions. That means it was all down to minor offtracks. I just can't understand their reasoning behind that.

At first I loved SR, and I still love what it does to the behavior of the community, but now I just hate it. I agree with all of it except the off tracks. In my opinion the offtracks should be taken out. Maybe keep them in for true off tracks, like 4 tires off. I honestly think the rest of the off tracks should be replaced with black flag shortcut penalties. I'd rather have to slow down than have my SR be killed off.

 

[Imari]

Sometimes the offtrack line is ludicrously misplaced, I won't argue with you there. But the vast majority of the time you've got at least two wheels off the track. That's off track, and despite the fact that you have the skill to come through it cleanly if you were forced to take evasive action in that instant there would be an incident.

At the end of the day though, it's the same rules for everyone on the service. We all have to deal with the same offtrack rules. Most of just drive in a fashion that means we don't get offtracks, but you're apparently of the opinion that it's easier to change the rules than it is to change your driving.

I've explained why off-tracks and furled blacks are different, but you're still of the opinion that they're the same. They're really not.

If you have 4 incidents in a 30 minute race your SR will likely not move more than .02 either direction, which is basically nothing. If you want to post a link to actual result where you lost significant SR then that would be interesting, but it's never been my experience.

It's more productive to learn how to work within the framework of the system you're given rather than spend all your energy complaining about it, but best of luck to you if you think that's what'll get you to a B license faster.

 

[Eric.]

Off-track is actually determined by the having half your car (wheel count does not matter) off what iRacing has decided as "the track surface".

 

[plate88]

Off-track is actually determined by the having half your car (wheel count does not matter) off what iRacing has decided as "the track surface".

Also to add to this, ones SR is calculated off of the last 10-15 races. So if you are averaging 2 incidents per race and then have a 8 incident race, SR will most likely go down. Same goes if its the other way around. A higher incident average will yield gains with a few low incident races.

Personally I enjoy the SR system. When I first started iRacing I was obsessive about the SR also. After a few months though, I just let the whole ratings and numbers do their thing and worried about racing. After that, I haven't had to worry about SR since. Not to mention the enjoyment of the racing improves when you forget about all these numbers. And just because I don't pay any attention to these numbers some would say you must have a lower rating, right? Nope. My ratings go up and down like everyone else, but thats the nature of the system.

The iRating, SR, and license system are all there to make someone a better sim racer. To race within and around your limits while trying to be as fair as possible to all competing racers. Its also there to guage ones skill level and place them in competitive races. With that being said, iRacing is not catering to the masses like a GT game is. I'd have to say that their system all works together quite well. I'd say 90% of the time I get clean and competitive races.

 

[Roush_fan_99]

So given a few months a newbie's SR would probably level out in a class and slowly gain from there?

 

[Imari]

So given a few months a newbie's SR would probably level out in a class and slowly gain from there?

That's fairly likely. You'll plateau at whatever your natural level is, and then either gain from there or just float depending on how much you decide to actually care about it.

 

[motortrend]

I'm perfectly OK with the off tracks even though I have gotten a lot of them in some series, but what I really hate is when an incident that is not my fault and I get 0x for turns into a bigger incident that I get a 1x and 4x for

 

[MVR08]

Also anyone knows how you get the 50+ SR bonus that sometimes kick in?
I can't spot the criteria for which this bonus is given, this have happened to me three times and I have seen it go to others twice, But how is it calculated?

Also to add to this, ones SR is calculated off of the last 10-15 races. So if you are averaging 2 incidents per race and then have a 8 incident race, SR will most likely go down. Same goes if its the other way around. A higher incident average will yield gains with a few low incident races.

^This is probably part of the reason.

 

[Mattdemichele]

Do you just mean the 0.40 bonus you get for hitting the next number ie if u hit 3.00 you will be put up to 3.40 to stop you going up and down so much

 

[Niss]

Do you just mean the 0.40 bonus you get for hitting the next number ie if u hit 3.00 you will be put up to 3.40 to stop you going up and down so much

i added you Matt didnt get an response

 

[MVR08]

Do you just mean the 0.40 bonus you get for hitting the next number ie if u hit 3.00 you will be put up to 3.40 to stop you going up and down so much

So thats the reason then. yeah it makes sense cause I'm C class license and I have fast tracked to that point, it also happens when you hit 4.00. Well mistery solved!👍

 

[Mattdemichele]

Sorry niss! I own a restaurant and iv been flat out for the last week but I should b on this weekend! Maybe I'll join a Mazda mx5 race! Haven't driven it in ages tho! Nothing but the skip barber for 2 seasons! So much fun

 

[TomBrady]

Also to add to this, ones SR is calculated off of the last 10-15 races. So if you are averaging 2 incidents per race and then have a 8 incident race, SR will most likely go down. Same goes if its the other way around. A higher incident average will yield gains with a few low incident races.

Personally I enjoy the SR system. When I first started iRacing I was obsessive about the SR also. After a few months though, I just let the whole ratings and numbers do their thing and worried about racing. After that, I haven't had to worry about SR since. Not to mention the enjoyment of the racing improves when you forget about all these numbers. And just because I don't pay any attention to these numbers some would say you must have a lower rating, right? Nope. My ratings go up and down like everyone else, but thats the nature of the system.

The iRating, SR, and license system are all there to make someone a better sim racer. To race within and around your limits while trying to be as fair as possible to all competing racers. Its also there to guage ones skill level and place them in competitive races. With that being said, iRacing is not catering to the masses like a GT game is. I'd have to say that their system all works together quite well. I'd say 90% of the time I get clean and competitive races.

Wait so it's really only an average of your last 15 races?

I guess that would explain how you can drop so fast. Just a few bad races in a row, and you SR can get demolished. i had 3 bad races in a row, and it ruined everything I was trying to achieve.

I definitely hate, that it can easily go down much faster than it can go up. I almost wish they would put a cap on it, so that your Sr can only go down so much. I think it would be fair if your SR could only go down as much it would go up if you had a perfect or incident free race. I wish they would do that, but they expect everyone to be perfect instead.


Also I should really add, that I'm looking at this from an advancing members point of view, not someone who's just trying to maintain a decent SR. I'm trying to get to 4.0 (I really don't want to wait to the end of the season to get my B license).

Obviously if you're trying to improve SR to that high within a short period of time, your focus on SR will be much higher than an already established member. That's why it has me so stressed. I know that once I get my B license, i'll be like the rest of you and just enjoy the sim, but right now I hate it with a passion.

I just don't have the patience to practice the amount needed for me to be at a point where I won't make any mistakes in a race. Especially because, racing is the only thing that gets me there in the first place. So I basically have to lose some to gain some, and I just don't have time every night to do all that. Then I have to start over the next night.

I am finding that I'm getting much better though. Even when I'm completely uncomfortable with the car, and frankly all over the place, I still run fast times that are only .5 sec off my best, and usually am consistent at the end of a race. The problem is, I only can do 3 or 4 races each night at most.

It's a process, I've known that all along, but it doesn't change my stance on the off tracks. They're just way too harsh.

 

[plate88]

Wait so it's really only an average of your last 15 races?

Yup. If it was based off the total number of races someone would run, you could make yourself immune to SR drops or make it impossible to dig out of a hole full of incidents. Thats why its based off of a 10-15 race calculation.

I definitely feel where you're coming from. When first joining someone can easily get wrapped up in all these numbers to a point where its not any fun.