(NOT)Sandbagging it's something else. SOLVED!!

  • Thread starter sdi_03
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sdi_03

sdi_03

712
Finland
Finland
Hello,

Little introduction before the question, for the first post. :)
I have played 52 days now, according to kudos. 23k DR:B SR:S at the moment. Was little over 27k on day 50. 114 online races.
My nick says -03 but Im 42y old, have been driving race cars on real track and my summer daily driver is 911.
So please, no comments about my driving history, I'm not here to argue, I really want to find the answer to my problem with the game.

So here's the problem. At online races, my cars suffer horrible understeer. Not on all races, but most of them.
The grip is always better on the offline content, but sometimes it just makes the online races impossible to race.
I bought the game, because of the online races, so this is really annoying to me.

I saw the Super-Gt:s new tube video yesterday, with his new shadow account, he was 1 sec off the pace. Why?? Because this game slows you down if you are not rated high enough. On last week daily gr4 race I saw this myself. My qualifying time was 1:41.5 and in top 500 in my region. I was mostly put on lobby that had A+ drivers in front of me 2 or 3. I could keep up with them one lap, but after we got to the long straight, they just drove into the distance?? Same speed out of the corner leading to the straight. My car was RCZ so it should have the speed to follow...

Is the game sandbagging me not to raise too fast? Is it a server problem(internet test gave me 95M in 9M out)? What is it??
 
Understeer in the Gr4 RCZ is expected :) I managed 42.1 at Fuji short which didn't even get me in to the top 2000 in EMEA region, I could easily pass the Lambo's down the straight, I found being patient and gentle with the throttle gave big gains. I was B/S 23000 DR last week. I have noticed more grip in GT League/TT etc, if I'm practicing for an online race I'll create or join a lobby where the grip feels the same. As for the game slowing you down, I haven't noticed that, this week in race A I've been in the top 30 and started the week at 23000DR
 
Thanks for the reply Lazybike :)

My q time for the race b this week gr3 is 1:57.6, this with huracan. Yesterday evening raced 4 races. 3 first had so litle grip, that everybody just passed me and drove to the distance. 2:01.xx was best time for me in these races. At fourth race I was in lobby with door number 15 at 24k dr high b and low a drivers. Grip was back and I was on position 10 at the last lap. had a bumb with anoher car and got 2sec penalty. Decided to burn it before the finishline. Well it did not go as I expected I stopped stand still before the line, but it took roughly 2 secs stop before the penalty started to go down??? So yet again finished last.

Something is wrong with the game or connection, and I hope there is a fix to it.
 
Famine
No.
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Crazy Taylor
This game doesn't slow you down, only you slow you down. Time for obligatory git gud response. Git gud
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Could you be more specific?? Why the grip alters between races?? After 3 really poor grip race I logged out of the game and back for the race 4. Grip was better and I could keep up with higher ranked players. Why is this?? This game is known to have grip bug that gives more grip. So why its not possible to go another way?? I'm not saying that I'm the fastest, but would like to race against the players, not the car.
 
I think most of what you are experiencing is the difference between hot lapping and racing. It's something that's been discussed in various threads here. Essentially there is a psychological difference between running qualifying laps and racing. When qualifying you can push harder as a mistake only costs you the lap time. In a race a mistake can cost you positions, so you don't push as hard as the risk of a mistake has a higher consequence.

There is also the difference of having to manage other cars around you and driving in a slipstream. GT Sport simulates loss of downforce when in dirty air and that affects your braking and cornering ability. Some people have interpreted this as a difference in grip levels between qualifying and racing, but is not the case.
 
It may be got to a few things. It may even be a 'placebo effect' where it's psychological. I dont think its a game issue as the top drivers seem consistent (but also have their bad days).
 
watto79
I think most of what you are experiencing is the difference between hot lapping and racing. It's something that's been discussed in various threads here. Essentially there is a psychological difference between running qualifying laps and racing. When qualifying you can push harder as a mistake only costs you the lap time. In a race a mistake can cost you positions, so you don't push as hard as the risk of a mistake has a higher consequence.

There is also the difference of having to manage other cars around you and driving in a slipstream. GT Sport simulates loss of downforce when in dirty air and that affects your braking and cornering ability. Some people have interpreted this as a difference in grip levels between qualifying and racing, but is not the case.
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I have read about this, and while this is true, in my case the grip is poor on hotlap and in the race. Not just on the race itself.
I know that this sounds stupid, and its easy to just ignore my rant.
But I have also read some other people complaining the same thing.
Someone wrote on topic here, that the game creates your set up on each race and act as a virtual race chief. If this is the case, your set ups are indeed randomly different to other players?

Reason why I want resolve this, is that offline driving is good as for the physics. I really enjoy it, but it bring to win races over 30s...
So why the physics are different in online??
 
sdi_03
So why the physics are different in online??
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As soon as you add tyre wear, the grip levels reduce. You can test this yourself by driving several laps in a lobby with no tyre wear, then turning it on. In Daily Races you'll find qualifying has more grip than the race. In FIA races you'll find practice has more grip than warm-up, qualifying or the race.

The idea that GTS gives you a different setup or actually employs a boost method to slow you down if you're a lower rank is a nonsense. And you can demonstrate this to yourself by starting a career on a second account on your console. You'll start at DR E and if the idea that the game slows you down for your low rank is true, you'll be slower than you are on your primary, DR B account.
 
sdi_03
Could you be more specific??
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The game does not sandbag players based on rank, level of skill, or time played.

Your 95M down 9M up will have no effect on your online experience, as long as you have 2M up 1M down that's all you need to play. The ping, or responsiveness, of your Internet connection however will have an impact on your experience. You can test it on the sport mode race select screen,at the top left it has "test internet connection".
This is different from your standard connection test because it will show you what your connection directly to the GTSport server is like.
Ping below 50 is great, over 150 is considered not so great, however with this game you'd probably have to be north of 300 befote it became a serious issue.
More than 50ms ping and you will experience some lag, however it will only take 2 or 3 races max and you will calibrate yourself to it and never notice again.
 
Famine
As soon as you add tyre wear, the grip levels reduce. You can test this yourself by driving several laps in a lobby with no tyre wear, then turning it on. In Daily Races you'll find qualifying has more grip than the race. In FIA races you'll find practice has more grip than warm-up, qualifying or the race.

The idea that GTS gives you a different setup or actually employs a boost method to slow you down if you're a lower rank is a nonsense. And you can demonstrate this to yourself by starting a career on a second account on your console. You'll start at DR E and if the idea that the game slows you down for your low rank is true, you'll be slower than you are on your primary, DR B account.
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Ok, I know the differences between no tyre wear etc. Been playing these gt games since ps1.
I had same grip issue when closing drB no grip horrible understeer. Drove all missions etc to gold. (easy)
And look behold, grip was back and jump from C to B was easy beasy. Now did I just get better driving thru those mission and track exp?
I doubt it. Not that much at least, that I could now make my car oversteer and not just horrrrrrible understeer....

splitwindow
The game does not sandbag players based on rank, level of skill, or time played.

Your 95M down 9M up will have no effect on your online experience, as long as you have 2M up 1M down that's all you need to play. The ping, or responsiveness, of your Internet connection however will have an impact on your experience. You can test it on the sport mode race select screen,at the top left it has "test internet connection".
This is different from your standard connection test because it will show you what your connection directly to the GTSport server is like.
Ping below 50 is great, over 150 is considered not so great, however with this game you'd probably have to be north of 300 befote it became a serious issue.
More than 50ms ping and you will experience some lag, however it will only take 2 or 3 races max and you will calibrate yourself to it and never notice again.
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Ill, check the ping. month ago it was 37mS. Last night I was playing on "primetime" for europe so server might be besyer?
 
Solo practice is faster because you have no tyre wear, but also low fuel. When there's no fuel depletion, the game defaults to an empty tank - yes I'm aware the indicator shows otherwise, but try low fuel and no tyre wear in a lobby.

I suppose you mostly do race C in sport mode. Race B having no tyre wear and no fuel depletion, the car just drives the same than in practice and you can achieve the same lap times if you're not battling. Race A has weak slipstream but otherwise it's the same. There's no such thing as grip reduction for low ranks. I leveled up 3 accounts now, and a lot of top drivers have leveled at least 2 by now. We would have noticed.

Also your daily driver is irrelevant. GT Sport isn't a daily driving simulator.
 
GT_Alex74
Solo practice is faster because you have no tyre wear, but also low fuel. When there's no fuel depletion, the game defaults to an empty tank - yes I'm aware the indicator shows otherwise, but try low fuel and no tyre wear in a lobby.

I suppose you mostly do race C in sport mode. Race B having no tyre wear and no fuel depletion, the car just drives the same than in practice and you can achieve the same lap times if you're not battling. Race A has weak slipstream but otherwise it's the same.

Also your daily driver is irrelevant. GT Sport isn't a daily driving simulator.
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Mostly race C yes, last week b with gr4 so didn't want do gr4 this week also.
Issue for me, is lack of grip on some races. If the grip would be poor on all races ok, but difference between good and bad race is huge.
Goes allso for hotlapping.
For dailydriver, sorry if it come out like showing off, that was not my purpose. Tryed just to say, that handling physics of a car is clear to me.
 
I'd say you're probably just not consistent enough. But if you still think your grio is changing, record your races and compare side by side.

As for the daily driver comment, I mean daily driving is just miles ahead from racing, even if you do spirited driving.
 
splitwindow
Race C is very different story with grip. As I said though just a couple of races and you will adjust no problem.
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Grip issues seems to be most bad in these daily B races, that should not have tyre wear. Ill try the race C tonight see if it works better for me.
 
splitwindow
Are you running different tyres?
Race A and B you're locked on hard rubber, have you been using super softs offline?
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No, I have used the hardest compounds on offline races. Sometimes softer just for speed on some boring tracks.

For Race B it feels like I'm driving on heavy tyre wear on the poor grip races. No need for CSA, because my car never oversteers from steering input.
Only if go nuts with throttle on corners I get oversteer.
 
sdi_03
Could you be more specific?? Why the grip alters between races?? After 3 really poor grip race I logged out of the game and back for the race 4. Grip was better and I could keep up with higher ranked players. Why is this?? This game is known to have grip bug that gives more grip. So why its not possible to go another way?? I'm not saying that I'm the fastest, but would like to race against the players, not the car.
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The fuel levels are different in offline events (unless it's an endurance race) so this makes a small (50-75kg) difference in weight (and smaller change to the weight distribution, dependant on fuel tank placemant). This can help explain a bit ofrhe difference.

Also, I've not checked buy the track settings may also be different depending on the race levels, possibly low grip loss for lower classes and realistic for online sport races.
 
One thing came to mind, do you use same car for all races, lets say gr4? Last week i tested all the gr4 cars they came quite close together in laptimes exept one, the RCZ peugeot, it was 2 sec faster for me.
Now last night I tested different gr3 cars on those poor grip races and finally on race 4 M6 bmw. Could it be, that the car choice is crucial thing here?
So some cars are more op for you?? this way there would be more different cars on the grid and not just meganes??

In gr3 race, R8 is 2 sec slower for me than Huracan.
 
Woodybobs
Did you check for yellow flags at the finish line?

It's not that surprising that he's off the pace on his second account.
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Not sure for the yellow flag, would that cause this? i think that there were non..

For the S-gt being off pace? Why is that? Becouse wheel? Or slower players? His clean lap with no one slowing down was 1 sec off the pace.
 
sdi_03
Not sure for the yellow flag, would that cause this? i think that there were non..

For the S-gt being off pace? Why is that? Becouse wheel? Or slower players? His clean lap with no one slowing down was 1 sec off the pace.
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Yes yellow flag cause that, penalties cannot be scrubbed under yellow flag, no passing either.

Everyone has off days, I’m definitely not at my fastest every single day. :)
 
sdi_03
Not sure for the yellow flag, would that cause this? i think that there were non..

For the S-gt being off pace? Why is that? Becouse wheel? Or slower players? His clean lap with no one slowing down was 1 sec off the pace.
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The penalty won't reduce under yellow flags. People often hit the handbrake crossing the line. The resulting spin brings out yellow flags.

A second account offers an opportunity to race without worrying too much about results. On his Monday streams he's usually jumping into a new combo without practise. One of his recent main account videos is from Bathurst. After his initial practise and some racing he was struggling to keep up. It took him more than an hour of hot-lapping to find the pace to be competitive at A+.
 
Ok, so you gyus are 100% sure its not the game its the player. Not a problem for me, now it seems that you all suffer from understeer thru corners.
So how do you fight it? I've tryed slow in fast out, trailbraking, weight transfer, rolling thru corners by small amount of brake. Its specially hard to get late apex fast corners. There just isn' enough grip to initial turn in.

How do I find this grip?
 
Well, I don't know how you drive, so can't tell you what to do differently. But check how top guys in FIA drive by watching their replays, this should give you an idea. Also, try to shift your brake balance towards the rear.
 
sdi_03
Ok, so you gyus are 100% sure its not the game its the player. Not a problem for me, now it seems that you all suffer from understeer thru corners.
So how do you fight it? I've tryed slow in fast out, trailbraking, weight transfer, rolling thru corners by small amount of brake. Its specially hard to get late apex fast corners. There just isn' enough grip to initial turn in.

How do I find this grip?
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Watch the replays from the top 10 qualifiers. Note how fast they do each sector compared to your sector times so you can identify where you are losing the most time.

Search for TidgneyRacing on YouTube. He's created a driving school series that is really helpful, with specific elements on understeer and oversteer. Look up other GT Sport YouTubers. Most of the top GT Sport players post videos of their races.

Post a video of your lap here so others can offer help as to where you are losing time.

And then practice, practice, practice!
 
sdi_03
One thing came to mind, do you use same car for all races, lets say gr4? Last week i tested all the gr4 cars they came quite close together in laptimes exept one, the RCZ peugeot, it was 2 sec faster for me.
Now last night I tested different gr3 cars on those poor grip races and finally on race 4 M6 bmw. Could it be, that the car choice is crucial thing here?
So some cars are more op for you?? this way there would be more different cars on the grid and not just meganes??

In gr3 race, R8 is 2 sec slower for me than Huracan.
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This week, I used all 27 Gr.4 cars in Race C.
Trust, some handle better than others. One even got better with tyre wear(Viper). Some are just plain good, due to light weight and drivetrain configuration.

The RCZ is pretty good, but I've gone faster in the Scirocco and Megane Gr.4. I will admit, yesterday, I did a race in the Megane Gr.4 and it wasn't the greatest with tyre wear. Today, I used it again and it was totally different. Handled on rails and with its torque figure, was pulling away from other racers when I was in 3rd gear.

The FF cars are really good from 3rd gear. Depending on Circuit, they have enough torque where 2nd gear isn't needed for slow corners. Also try TCS 1 and TCS 0.

I don't trailbrake with the FF at Nurb GP. I scrub as much speed before the turn, use off-throttle tuck in and straighten the car as soon as possible to get in the power early.
 
I have watched the replays. And its not one sector I'm slower in all sector by roughly 1sec. In the replays, top guys can make sharp initial turn in to corners. I cant, I have not got the grip to do this. I must turn in early to get apex and play with brake/throttle to keep on driving line
This fast "flick" makes it possible for top guys to late apex corners and go to throttle early.
On race B top guys can go thru s-corners flat out. i cant, no matter what line I take, still must lift to stay on track
I have even watched my replays, and try to find if Im on the right place on the track

I usually set brake bias -3. Only ABS default, no TCS etc. Driving with G29

This is for the race B daily.
 

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