Sandboxgod's CSR Elite Beta Test

  • Thread starter sandboxgod
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left888
Great review Sandbox, the Elite wheel does look promising and after your review it moves up my wish list a little more. As with any wheel it takes getting use to new button placements etc.. Now that you have used it a little more, how do you feel about the button placement now?

This was the first time I have read about someone disliking the feel of the wheel and in fact said it felt cheap, did he get a bad wheel or does every other tester not have the same opinion? Also he said he lost the 900° rotation and developed a squeal that went away after he rebooted his PC, has anyone else heard of these anomalies?

I think I will sit back a few months and she what happens after the tree is shook, so far my two T500's have worked flawlessly (knock on wood) I hope the Elite wheel does have lasting quality, they do look awesome.
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He thinks the wheel doesn't feel right because he is more of a CSW style costumer for realistic wheels. Besides the feel of the wheel is as personal as the setup of your tv or monitor. It really differs from person to person.

The squeal is just a result of the torque rotation lock working. What happens is the lock is set below 900 degrees. So let's say that the lock is at 270 degrees, at the 145 degree mark left or right the motor just stops and locks up its axle by sheer power. By then overturning the wheel the belt starts slipping under tension causing a squeal. This is the small belt doing this which goes around the motors to the big gear. A bigger belt would have more grip and stop this noise, but the noise itself will disappear over time when it wears in a bit more. So it's left that way not to ruin the feel of the wheel. Since the code wheel is on the steering axle it won't cause any misalignment, thus is it harmless.
The reason it only squeals to the right is cause of the grain? of the rubber. To the right you stroke against it causing a slight vibration and that causes the sound. basically it just vibrates like a snare on guitar (even though the type of vibration and material, and thus sound is different).

After a while it should all become a little more rough and the new finish on the belt should disappear along with the issues.
 
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VWMasteR
I have a question for the PS3. When connected does pushing the xbox guide button not equal the PS button for PS3?
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If it doesn't then the wheel is not PS3 compatible cause it only works properly to some extend on the PS3. So if there isn't a PS button then Fanatec should not be allowed to advertise and sell the product as PS3 compatible.

Same goes for the CSW.

The same goes for the G25 and G27 for example. They are just PC wheels which happen to work partly on the PS3. Whereas the DFGT is an official PS3 wheel.
 
The xbox button doesn't work as a ps button. But I still believe it can be advertised as a ps3 compatible wheel its just not an official wheel for gt5, everything still functions fine on the ps3 and you can even configure the buttons, you just have to figure out which of the official wheels to use to configure the buttons which is a hassle
 
lazjet
The xbox button doesn't work as a ps button. But I still believe it can be advertised as a ps3 compatible wheel its just not an official wheel for gt5, everything still functions fine on the ps3 and you can even configure the buttons, you just have to figure out which of the official wheels to use to configure the buttons which is a hassle
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I wasn't doubting the compatibility, it was more a question that I did not know the answer to. There really isn't a reason why the Xbox button couldn't have been the PS3 button also. It's just software.
 
lazjet
The xbox button doesn't work as a ps button. But I still believe it can be advertised as a ps3 compatible wheel its just not an official wheel for gt5, everything still functions fine on the ps3 and you can even configure the buttons, you just have to figure out which of the official wheels to use to configure the buttons which is a hassle
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Being PS3 compatible doesn't have anything to do with game compatibility!
So please don't mix up the two. Up until now any official PS3 compatible product that was allowed to use the playstation 3 name logo had a PS button from a normal gamepad to guitar hero guitars and drums to wheels like the DFGT or T500 RS.
 
Today my daughter and I tested the CSR-E + T500RS together on the PS3 in split screen on GT5 & Dirt 3 (PS3). Both games worked great 👍

I never tried split screen modes before. I was quite amazed to see these great wheels working side-by-side. I'm simply floored these games can support two totally different wheels like this. In GT5 we did some karting in the night track included with DLC. Then we did some Ovals which is great for her since she's still learning. She was steering the T500RS btw while I used the CSR-E

Funny thing we noticed. When shutting down GT5 (via the ps3 button on the T500rs) the T500RS will recalibrate. However the CSR-E doesn't. So my daughter was asking me why but I have no idea.

I now wish the CSR-E would show a different indicator on the LED to indicate if it was PS3 or PC mode. Atm it shows the same symbol which can be a little scary because I believe the DPAD might work in PC mode on the PS3. I need to double check

@left888, so far I am still digging the button placement. The 'red buttons' on the CSR-E are very big. Very easy to hit them. This was a smart move by fanatec. So if you're in a rush or in the heat of a race I don't know how you could miss one of these buttons. It's great I am really digging this wheel rim more and more.
 
As you exit GT5 it starts up the XMB again, and then if it started up far enough issues the shutdown command. Due to this it starts to do device detection again just before shutdown. Probably it detects the T500 first and waits till its driver is fully initialized with the calibration data it gets from the wheel, before detecting the next device the CSR Elite. It could be due to which port you have each device, but might also be due to a faster startup and reply to detection request from the devices themselves.
 
That's great that your little daughter plays, I want to start teaching my 6 & 11 year old nephews to play. They have tried a couple times and the 6 year old has a natural talent for driving at first he was staying on track and countersteeing with my s2000 in gt5 lol he was using automatic though but it was setup for simulation steering. The older one used paddle shift and was pretty good too

Just like when I watch jonboys vids it amazes me how good little kids can be at things :)
 
Excellent review sandboxgod! The production Elite I bought is due to arrive later this week. Can't wait to try it out in comparison to the other wheels I own and have tried.
 
Excellent review. Thank you. I particularly appreciated the in depth comparison with the T500RS, a wheel I almost bought a few months ago. I am glad I waited and instead got the Elite.
 
Updated my review since now I've had time to play with it in rFactor, CARS, etc. I added my updates in the bottom section. Nothing much more to add though.
 
Hey guys, maybe someone can answer a question that bothers me since yesterday.

I bought a T500RS yesterday and while i liked the smooth & strong FFB, i sadly had to return it today because i had big trouble feeling any understeer with that wheel. When using FWD cars in LFS i was hitting walls in almost every lap due to lack of communicaton from the front wheels (tried it in Life For Speed, Game Stock Car, netKar PRO and Historic Touring GT & Touring Cars).

I've tried to fiddle with every setting possible with no results, then searched the web and found a post at Insidesimracing and a review at SimHQ where i've read that apparently this is a "feature" of that wheel. :indiff:
So i went back to my 4 year old G25, which does feel a bit cheap in comparison, but at least i can feel the grip level of the fronts again...

Now my question: Is the representation of understeer on the CSR Elite any better than that on the Thrustmaster?
 
Quasikoki
Now my question: Is the representation of understeer on the CSR Elite any better than that on the Thrustmaster?
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My wheel of choice since last December has been the Elite. My two cents is that the understeer is well communicated via the wheel. In order words, I feel it better than any other wheel I have ever used (Driving Force GT, Fanatec GT2 and Fanatec CSR), and thus I can correct more quickly.

Get the Elite. Its an awesome wheel. Just be ready to wait for it, it could take a while before you receive it.
 
Thanks for your input, i plan to get the CSW + BMW rim, so i guess i'll wait even longer...

So the wheel does get noticably lighter when understeering or when the front tires lock up?
That would be very satisfying indeed, as i'm left with the desire for a smoother and more prezise wheel after the last two days.
 
Quasikoki
Thanks for your input, i plan to get the CSW + BMW rim, so i guess i'll wait even longer...

So the wheel does get noticably lighter when understeering or when the front tires lock up?
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Yes, that is what alerts me to correct the understeer.
 
Quasikoki
Hey guys, maybe someone can answer a question that bothers me since yesterday.

I bought a T500RS yesterday and while i liked the smooth & strong FFB, i sadly had to return it today because i had big trouble feeling any understeer with that wheel. When using FWD cars in LFS i was hitting walls in almost every lap due to lack of communicaton from the front wheels (tried it in Life For Speed, Game Stock Car, netKar PRO and Historic Touring GT & Touring Cars).

I've tried to fiddle with every setting possible with no results, then searched the web and found a post at Insidesimracing and a review at SimHQ where i've read that apparently this is a "feature" of that wheel. :indiff:
So i went back to my 4 year old G25, which does feel a bit cheap in comparison, but at least i can feel the grip level of the fronts again...

Now my question: Is the representation of understeer on the CSR Elite any better than that on the Thrustmaster?
Click to expand...

I read the SimHQ review when it first came out-May 22nd, 2011- and re-read it to see where it says that the lack of under steer sensation is a feature if this wheel. You know what- nowhere does it say that. There's a mention at the end of the review when discussing T500RS interaction with GT5:

" If I had to find fault, it would be that the T500 RS lacks in-wheel adjustments, and FFB communication of understeer from the front wheels is a little under-delivered"

Prior to 2.04 update GT5 there's hardly any under steer sensation in GT5 and the last 2.06 update improved it further. But as you can see the review was done a year ago- even before the SPEC 2.0 update. Still GT5 unlike console game like Forza where the FFB emphasis is on the suspension and tire grip, I find with GT5, it's centered around the weight of the car in relation to tire grip and the varying/shifting weight. It's a bit more complex and somewhat deceiving if you're not used to it.

But in rFactor, for example, I find the T500RS has no issue with conveying under steer. As long as I made sure that I set the FFB strength sensibly (60% in TM software and 60-70% in game). Anything higher- I can feel that the centre spring takes too much sensation out of the wheel.

Personally, I think you never gave the wheel a chance. One day is not enough to evaluate any wheel let alone one that can deliver more potential than, for example, a G25. That along with misinterpretation (like the above review) made for a very misinformed evaluation.
 
As i've said i tried many different settings, even on 60% in the TM software and 40% FFB in LFS i found the delivery of understeer to be very underwhelming, i could not feel the wheel to get lighter the tiniest bit, even when fully locking up the front tires under braking. I tried all different combinations of damping, spring and FFB strenght i could think of in the mentioned simulations (there is hardly any setting that can make my G25 display no understeer).

Maybe the T500 can deliver more potential than the G25 under some aspects and it's fine if it works for you, but i find the G25 to be MUCH better under that one aspect, which to me is very important.
Also, i found the wheel to be very heavy even when FFB was turned off and came to the conclusion that it's impossible for it to get any lighter when understeering, than it is by default, don't know what is misinformed about that.

I have read a few posts in various forums describing the same problem, so i guess i'm not alone on that and remember Tom Hacke stating in the Insidesimracing review the heaviness of the wheel as a downside, i was listening closely as i thought that might bother me already back then.

It's not so much about giving a chance than maybe about personal preference, i wanted to like the wheel and would have rather kept something that made my hobby a better experience than having to go through the hassle of dismounting it disappointed and driving to the store again to return it.

So again, it's fine if it works for you, maybe i expect more of a product in that prize range or maybe i'm just not that refined when it comes to feeling understeer, but after quite a few hours of extensively testing the T500 i have to say i am happier with my old G25, i can feel understeer with it, it feels more alive and there's no loud fan bugging my girlfriend after she went to sleep :)

It's evident that people will defend their wheel of choice as much as it's clear that what suits the one might feel wrong for the other.
I did not intend to start a discussion about the FFB quality of the T500RS, i just hoped to hear some impressions from people who have used the CSR Elite. Still i might disagree after buying one but at least i could avoid doing so if many would describe a similiar representation of understeer with that wheel.
 
I can easily feel understeer using the CSR-E with GT5. I use zero aids and can feel it lose grip when I over break and I can feel the wheel go light when I approach the limit of front wheel grip in a turn.

I came from the G27 and it feels similar though the CSR-E is more precise and refined in overall steering and FFB response.
 
RReed43
I can easily feel understeer using the CSR-E with GT5. I use zero aids and can feel it lose grip when I over break and I can feel the wheel go light when I approach the limit of front wheel grip in a turn.

I came from the G27 and it feels similar though the CSR-E is more precise and refined in overall steering and FFB response.
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So can I with the T500RS. But prior to the 2.04 and 2.06 update, it was in the word of Chunx (from SimHQ) "under-delivered".

Quasikoki- I'm not trying to undermine your opinion. I've come to a conclusion (quite a while back) that when it comes to something tactile or haptic feedback, there's no real consensus. Parallel to this, obviously, is when you read reviews of cars from different experts. Some people requires a different sensation for something to click and tell them that that's exactly what they're feeling. There's also the notion that certain sensation is learned and comes from continued analysis.

FFB as is stands now is not a standardised implementation. Yes, it's suppose to imitate that of real life sensation but in real life not everything comes through via the steering wheel. At best it's an approximation of RL and at worst, nothing more than a cheap sensation.

I forgot to mention earlier that prior to getting the T500RS, I was using the G25 for over 3 years. So there's a lot of similarities between what we're experiencing. And on the first day or two, I also questioned the supposedly improvement the T500RS had over the G25.
 

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