SCC Patch Test Event - Sunday Dec 13th - Event Complete (Thank Goodness)

[jjaisli]

Supercar Challenge - Patch Test Event - 250 Testa Rossa - Sunday, December 13th, 2009 - 20:30hr GMT * new time *

The Supercar Challenge 1.12 patch with revised on-line code is now live and our hopes and aspirations for running competitive events in the future depend on how successful Eutechnyx was in fixing the bugs and prediction code.

I just don't have the time to organize another 'proper' Old Timer event for this coming weekend, but I'd like to try and put together a TEST to gauge how successful the new patch is at addressing the lag issues we've all encountered with this game. Granted, most of you will probably be doing this during the week anyway, but I figured this may be the best chance to organize a full lobby and really push the code to the limit. As such, I'd like all of the Old Timer Event regulars to please join in.

Rather than longer 'endurance' runs, I'll make this a series of 3-5 lap races as the more people running together in tighter groups, the better chance we'll have of uncovering any problems. That said, I'd like everybody to keep a few things in mind:

1. We're testing prediction code and collision handling. So the most important thing we can do in this event is NOT to hit one another. It's not going to be a very successful test if everybody does the Wal-Mart sale sprint.

2. I will try and record the races to offer feedback to Eutechnyx if any obvious bugs like cars sticking together still exist. I encourage others to do the same.

3. For this event, I would like to ask that EVERYBODY keep the car in STOCK form with NO CHANGES to the setup. This way the playing field is fairly level and will (hopefully) keep the field closer together.

I hope to see as many people there as possible. And I'll try to at least make it interesting.

* I will not be tabulating points and will simply check the games own point tabulation counter at the end of the event.

* I will turn assists off but I WILL allow the racing line in this case.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The car will be a return to one of my personal favorites:

The 1958 Ferrari Testa Rossa

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Tracks:

Practice Event No 1 : California Speedway Oval - 9 Laps - Dry - Random Grid

Oval races presented the biggest problems in the past. If they still exist, we'll find them right away.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Practice Event No 2 : Mugello - 5 Laps - Dry - Random Grid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Practice Event 3: Mont Tremblant - 5 Laps - Dry - Random Grid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Practice Event 4: Misano - 3 Laps - WET - Random Grid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Practice Event 5: Homestead Oval - 9 Laps -WET - Random Grid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Practice Event 6: Redwood Park (Montreal) - 3 Laps -Dry - Random Grid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Practice Event 7: Spa - 5 Laps -Dry - Random Grid

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Despite the number of tracks, I suspect this event will take about 45 minutes less than average do the lower number of laps run. I hope to see everybody there. And most important of all, I hope to see a fun and LAG FREE event.

See you Sunday! 👍

 

[Ghost_Dice]

Sweet .. cant wait .. should be fun as always . and hope with the new patch we can run tight racing without the fear of death !! if we do touch .

Nice one jjaisli

 

[turnupdaheat]

Jeff, please don't take offence when I ask is this the right car for the purposes of this patch test!

The Testarossa is difficult to handle and has the worst brakes, by far, than any other car in the game and this could lead to increased potential for accidents. I agree with you that everyone using default setups should balance things up to a degree but would using a more modern car that everyone could handle easily lead to safer racing?

I had in mind something like a bog standard 355 Challenge with it's safe handling and strong brakes.

 

[jjaisli]

I look at it this way, the 250 Testa Rossa is enormously fast compared to some of the base model Suzukis we get in Prologue. But it's the 'slowest' car in the game. It lacks 'grip' but it's handling is stable and predictable. It doesn't throw any surprises at you like the LM or even the GTO does. And I just think it's slower pace makes it very conducive to 'close', side-by-side racing. It's much easier to sit .5 off of somebody's bumper with the TR than with any other car in the game. Where as with more modern cars, split second reactions can mean the difference between hitting an apex and getting it very wrong. You're right about the brakes though.

Trust me, I'm itching to use the 355 myself--it was my favorite car in Ferrari Challenge. But I just thought the 250 TR made more sense for the purposes of this test. Especially since we're in the middle of the classic series.

 

[turnupdaheat]

Yeah, fair enough. We'll see!

I missed the previous TR event anyway so it gives me a chance to give it a go.

 

[danjama]

Id like to join in but ill be a little bit late due to working until 7pm gmt.

 

[jjaisli]

You'll have a whole hour danjama! (Unless you live 75-km from work like I do) But if there's room available and you're on-line, I'll send you an invite. This event is very informal. If it wasn't for punters I'd make it an open lobby.

 

[chilledant]

sounds great. default and all.. what about the suspension hard our soft we need to all have the same.. ether, our....?????? its easy to say default ride height and camber but you will never know suspension stiffness as this gives an increase in time..?

 

[jjaisli]

Default is full soft. We'll just have to trust that everybody abides by it. The first clown I see with raised rear ride height, passing everybody on the straights gets booted.

 

[arvore]

Jeff before anything thanks for the breaking zones:tup: i've tried myself a few laps online after the patch donwload and i agree with you ,colision system seems to have improved.
If i can i will be there at 20.00 pm gmt with a default setting TR

 

[hm66]

hi jeff
I'll def. try to make it.
If you are near your ps3 can you confirm that if you choose another livery that you havn't set-up it will be on default.

 

[bullie77]

Think this should be fun! I'd just wish to have races a little bit longer (5 laps?), except for the Oval (9 is ok). With 3 laps you'll alway get that feeling after crossing finish line: ended already?!

 

[jjaisli]

Jeff before anything thanks for the breaking zones:tup:

Not to beat a dead horse but I still say relying on the racing line for braking is a great tool for learning the track but it can get you into even more trouble if you use it in a fully lobby.

hi jeff
I'll def. try to make it.
If you are near your ps3 can you confirm that if you choose another livery that you havn't set-up it will be on default.

I believe so. I did this in the lobby last night and the car felt different after the first race. But maybe we'll have to test it to be sure. Maybe create two extreme opposite set-ups with the same car under a different livery and see what happens.

Think this should be fun! I'd just wish to have races a little bit longer (5 laps?), except for the Oval (9 is ok). With 3 laps you'll alway get that feeling after crossing finish line: ended already?!

Well, I'd like to have fun with this but the main goal is try and seek out any serious lag related bugs or errors. And the best way to do it is when the field is bunched together. I'll run the numbers and maybe make a few adjustments though.

 

[jjaisli]

* Update *

Looking at the times, I made some changes. Both Mugello and Mont-Tremblant are now 5 laps as opposed to 3. And the Miami Oval race will be run in the rain. As we know from the practice last night, oval races do still suffer some issues. So adding rain into the mix (something which just isn't done in the real world anyway) should make any lag apparent.

Once again, I would encourage anybody with a video camera or better yet, a DVR, to record the races. It would be interesting to see any incidents from a different perspective.

 

[bullie77]

* Update *

Looking at the times, I made some changes. Both Mugello and Mont-Tremblant are now 5 laps as opposed to 3. And the Miami Oval race will be run in the rain. As we know from the practice last night, oval races do still suffer some issues. So adding rain into the mix (something which just isn't done in the real world anyway) should make any lag apparent.

Once again, I would encourage anybody with a video camera or better yet, a DVR, to record the races. It would be interesting to see any incidents from a different perspective.

👍 Thanks!

 

[jjaisli]

* Update *

Two important things I need to announce.

1) The start time has been pushed back 30 minutes to 20:30 GMT. I may be a few minutes later than that but I'll do my best to make it by 20:30. The change to the start time has been added to the original post. Call it the onset of middle age but I have a family function to attend that slipped my mind.

2) I did some testing this morning at Mugello and as far as I can tell, contrary to what we thought, there is NO way to change the setup by switching to a different livery. I tried a number of different options, including, creating a new livery, saving a current livery, exiting the editor and returning before making changes and it seems like any setup changes will be universally applied across any and all liveries, both your own, and those supplied by Eutechnyx. So to take part in this event, you'll have to make sure you setup goes back to default, manually. Changing to a different livery in the lobby will not change your setup.

 

[Alan_G]

No, I'm pretty sure changing to a pre-made livery will change the setup to default - have been doing a lot of races like this. When I switched to one of these liveries, I was 2 seconds slower than with my own setup at Silverstone National.

 

[arvore]

No, I'm pretty sure changing to a pre-made livery will change the setup to default - have been doing a lot of races like this. When I switched to one of these liveries, I was 2 seconds slower than with my own setup at Silverstone National.

Yeah just confirmed that tonight.👍

 

[Hun200kmh]

Alan and arvore, if you change to a new livery the setups will return to default. However, according to my own experience, if you try to go back to your old livery you won't get your "personal" setup back with it.

Basically, if you do a new livery to an old car ... you lose your setup on all liveries.

 

[jjaisli]

OK, well this is a slightly different scenario that what I was trying to accomplish. I was trying to "assign" two radically different setups to two different liveries and see if switching to one or the other livery in the lobby would evoke that setup. And the game would not allow me to have a different setup on the same car at the same time.

But you guys are now saying, by changing to a different livery in the lobby, the setup, whatever it was, goes back to default settings? Hmmm. I wonder if I would even consider that a bug. But I guess it's a good way to ensure everybody IS running default by asking everybody to switch to a particular livery for the first event.

Not that anybody would be tempted to run just a few degrees of negative camber or something...

 

[arvore]

Alan and arvore, if you change to a new livery the setups will return to default. However, according to my own experience, if you try to go back to your old livery you won't get your "personal" setup back with it.

Basically, if you do a new livery to an old car ... you lose your setup on all liveries.

Hmmm,i've to check that out,because i think that if you choose(in the online lobby that is) a default livery you will run with default settings and then if you choose yours personallized livery it assumes the setup you did in the showroom but i will clear this doubt later on.....

 

[arvore]

OK, well this is a slightly different scenario that what I was trying to accomplish. I was trying to "assign" two radically different setups to two different liveries and see if switching to one or the other livery in the lobby would evoke that setup. And the game would not allow me to have a different setup on the same car at the same time.

But you guys are now saying, by changing to a different livery in the lobby, the setup, whatever it was, goes back to default settings? Hmmm. I wonder if I would even consider that a bug. But I guess it's a good way to ensure everybody IS running default by asking everybody to switch to a particular livery for the first event.

Not that anybody would be tempted to run just a few degrees of negative camber or something...

Jeff that should be the ideal solution(each livery each setup like in V8 Superstars where you can have speccific setups to each track) but you can only buy each model one time and have one setup for that car in the livery you create for it and offline you always play with the livery you choose(at least at tournement arcade and challenge modes not so sure in T.T. and quick races...)but on line you get to choose one of the premade liverys with the default setups.I don't really think thats a bug.
Anyways for the event thats the ideal solution because everybody(at least people who want to follow the rules)can choose default setup livery in the lobby and then get back to their one setup of choice whithout having to redo it.👍
you cannot change any setup for the default liverys,it´s just not an option,so everybody using one of the default liverys will be running with default setups,anyway you can really tell (at least with these radically unrealist extreme setups you have to choose to be competitive) when somebody has it's own setups in the way the car looks the extreme camber and toe setups are very notorious,not to mention the ride height, and makes the car stand out flying by the competition on the straights...
So if anyone cheats at least evebody will know that(and of couse gather for the big spanking):idea: .ROTFLOL

 

[jjaisli]

Just a little bump and reminder for the event this afternoon/evening. And I would just like to remind people:

- Please try to avoid contact at all cost. We're trying to detect problems with lag.

- Remember, DEFAULT setup only.

- At least two wheels on the track at all times.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Just to be sure. If I enter the lobby and my personal car still has a personal setup, all I need to do is to change to one of the available default liveries to be sure I'll race a default car, isn't it?

EDIT - I already "defaulted" my 250TR, so I can race with my personal livery, but I don't want to do that on all cars (and need to write down - or lose - all my personal setups) so if switching to a default livery does what's needed, that's a very easy solution for every event (or even lobby) where we agree to use default cars.

 

[jjaisli]

I'm just editing some video now and I have to apologize. My videos never come out particularly well to begin with because I lack a decent high-def DVR and I refuse to run my PS3 output through my low-def recorder otherwise it looks horrible while I'm racing. So my only option is a 10 year old camcorder on a tri-pod. And unfortunately it's slowly reaching the end of it's life cycle. There were a lot of places where the screen went black and I missed some video. And other sections where the color is faded or all over the place. As soon as I have some more video processed, I'll upload them, such as they are.

I want to thank those who took part in the event. As I've mentioned, this was not really designed to be a normal race event but more of a test for the recent patch to help gauge how successfully or how poorly Eutechnyx was able to improve the lag issues which have plagued the on-line system in SCC from the beginning. And I think the conclusion we can draw is that for most road course races, the lag is now perfectly acceptable. I'm sure participants will comment further but most people in the lobby seemed to indicate that they noticed either little lag or none at all. This game post patch is a huge improvement. Unfortunately oval races are a complete disaster with ghost cars still pushing you into the wall (see my video) and other cars dropping out of the sky and landing 50m up the road from their last known position. I don't know if this is something Eutechnyx can fix but I'll present our findings and hope for the best.

That said, I do want to make a comment in general, and I don't want to be overly critical, but I still think it should be said. I purposely asked people to run stock setup and I chose to limit the length of these races to 3-5 laps because I wanted the field bunched together. We can't test lag with the cars spread out as they would eventually become in a 20 or 30 minute race. But I did ask people to please be careful and to avoid contact where possible. And it seems like this request was completely ignored. I realize it's difficult to stay focused with 14-15 other cars around you and I understand and accept that mistakes happen. But some people were just completely out of control, desperately trying to pass and shove their way forward regardless of the consequences and it was all together ridiculous. This was not a race. It was a test. And I was shoved and punted off the track from behind in 4 of the 7 races. At Misano in particular, cars were sideways on the track and flying every which way in front of me and people were coming from behind me, accelerating. For what? I just don't get it. Had this been the first event I put together, I can assure you it would be my last.

I just can not understand the need for this kind of aggression in what's supposed to be a 'friendly' competition. If a mistake happens, at least have the decency to wait for the other person. Sometimes in side by side action it's not so easy to tell. But punting somebody from behind should be obvious. Likewise, if you fall off the track, don't just come charging back on. It's your responsibility to make sure the way is clear. And throwing your car into a gap in a desperate attempt to make up places is just not the way to promote friendly racing. Especially considering all of us in the lobby are known to one another.

At any rate, I'm glad it's over. And for all intents and purposes, I still consider the test successful and we can soon get back to the classic events with some "proper" endurance racing. I have to take a hard look at my schedule but most likely I'm going to take a break from the 'organized' events until after the holidays.

Videos to follow...

 

[bullie77]

That said, I do want to make a comment in general, and I don't want to be overly critical, but I still think it should be said. I purposely asked people to run stock setup and I chose to limit the length of these races to 3-5 laps because I wanted the field bunched together. We can't test lag with the cars spread out as they would eventually become in a 20 or 30 minute race. But I did ask people to please be careful and to avoid contact where possible. And it seems like this request was completely ignored. I realize it's difficult to stay focused with 14-15 other cars around you and I understand and accept that mistakes happen. But some people were just completely out of control, desperately trying to pass and shove their way forward regardless of the consequences and it was all together ridiculous. This was not a race. It was a test. And I was shoved and punted off the track from behind in 4 of the 7 races. At Misano in particular, cars were sideways on the track and flying every which way in front of me and people were coming from behind me, accelerating. For what? I just don't get it. Had this been the first event I put together, I can assure you it would be my last.

👍... and this will be my only comment on yesterday's riot.

 

[jjaisli]

Race Results according to the Game:

* Keep in mind, if at any point you leave the lobby, your points are wiped out.

 

[jjaisli]

Practice Event No 1 : California Speedway Oval - 9 Laps - Dry - Random Grid

[YOUTUBEhd]<object width="660" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YUylhRLllw4&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YUylhRLllw4&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="405"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBEhd]

Some things of note:

- At 2:26 I'm bumped into the wall and from that point "stuck" against the wall as if another car is holding me there. You can see in the video that Arvore continues on and he's not pinning me to the wall but I was unable to pull away until ChilledAnt came and bumped me from behind around 2:36.

- From that point, my video is rather useless as I became separated from the field but you can see a few incidents of cars dropping out of the sky from time to time.

- For about 1/2 of this race I used bump drafting techniques with mhm to try and catch the rest of the field.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Just a few quick notes:

1 - Oval racing - is not an option in large lobbies, due to lag issues. It must be said that oval racing reunites two major factors that will always be troublesome: a) Great Speed; b) very close cars. So, those are the races that really push our connections and the game/system/network software to its limits. I do remember that even in TRD3, ovals were usually more troublesome than "normal" tracks.

When I have time to edit more I will publish my video of the only oval race I did and you will notice that I laughed a lot because - indeed - that was probably one of the craziest races I ever did

2 - Post-patch lag - Apart from the "ovals problem", I think eutechnyx did a great job with this patch. As far as I can tell the "HUG-BUG" is completely gone. And we can race really close without lag-induced contact, or fear of it. Now, it's up to us (almost 100%) which means that lag will no longer be a valid excuse for any mishaps. 🤬 happens, apologize if needed, but don't blame the game

3 - Race behaviour - Agree with Jeff, last night I think we all witnessed some agressiveness that is not justifiable. I understand many contacts were made because of honest mistakes (I had my fair share of those too ) but if they happen and you gain a position because of them, you must give the position back, even if doing that costs you several other positions. There is no fun in racing if ALL people don't follow the same rules.

4 - The races - I know my best results were 2nd places at Mugello and Misano, to be honest I don't remember the other finishing positions (they must be crap, obviously ). I'm quite pleased with myself because I didn't have time to practise, apart from a race with Jeff at Mont Tremblant.

So, and because I didn't know where to brake, my first laps were very cautious and I was braking a lot earlier than the "aces". Turns out, maybe that saved me from the lap 1 mayhem that happened in almost all races, and helped me get close to the front runners. Anyway, I can't complain, I wasn't involved in any of the big incidents that happened last night.

I leave you with the Mugello clip. It was my first race and it started before I had the camera rolling so forgive me for not showing the braking to corner 1, first lap. As far as I remember, I was pushed a bit wide but nothing serious.

I cut lap 2 entirely because nothing happened in lap 2, apart from Henrik slowly gaining some advantage over me until he decided to slow down in the beggining of lap 3 and alow me to pass him. I guess he wanted to be a star in my movie, and he got just that because the rest of the race was very close between us two.

Notice this bug at the end: He finishes the race in front of me, but I am granted the win by my console and I think by the lobby network, because I get the result in my screen shown as "1ST" and after that I also get 1st place in the results screen. Needless to say, I will report this to eutechnyx.

Enjoy:

[YOUTUBEHD]kO95qFg8eUE[/YOUTUBEHD]​

 

[frawe]

If a mistake happens, at least have the decency to wait for the other person. But punting somebody from behind should be obvious.

I must agree Jeff. In 2 races I was clearly punted from behind. In Misano I have shoved off the track in the first corner after the start and I was leading. Getting of the track sliding through the field to the other side without control, getting a penalty too and finding myself at least standing in the sand. The same happend to me in Spa where I was pushed throughout the corner in the sand. But the most disappointing was the driver who was responsible for this didnt wait. As far as I know we have the rule that driver causes this has to wait and let you regain the position also when in the meantime other cars pass him.
In Mugello I was responsible for the crash in the last round where other drivers crashed into me. I was over the curbs and lost control and crashed into the wall. The only way for me getting back of the track was going reverse and steer right to the track. I shifted reverse but didnt touch the throttle and wanted to wait that others could pass me and suddenly my car made a jump backward on the track and the rest was a complete mayhem. I want to appologize for this. It was not my intention.
Overall the patch made online play smoother and more predictable. Only the Oval-Races gave some trouble.
One thing I have to mention too. In my Lobby were some drivers (eddietrout and Hairy-Dave) absent but I could hear them. In the races I didnt see them too. So I raced some of the races without these drivers.

At 1.50 you see me braking and steering to the tighter line of the corner and get out of his slipstream as the driver in front of me also tried to take the tighter line. I was on full brakes but couldnt avoid the collision. Sorry.