Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Azuremen
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R1600Turbo
I've just never understood people the buy sporty cars and complain about ride quality.
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Sports cars are meant to be firm, but trust me, to drive one quickly on UK roads it needs to ride well too (i.e. there are differing degrees of "firm"). Driving isn't as fun if you're being bounced out of your seat and the tyres are unable to hang onto the road. The 370Z sits on the wrong side of the line in that respect, where the MX-5 and the BRZ seem to be okay from the tests I've read.

If you want to understand the importance of ride quality (a term all-inclusive of primary and secondary ride, bump absorbtion, damping and several other criteria), it's no coincidence that every time there's a story in a car mag about someone driving a WRC car, they comment how little it's affected by bumps...
 
R1600Turbo
It's a WRC car. :lol:

Not really the best comparison.
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Why? At the end of the day it's a car, just one that needs to handle and ride well in order to do its job.

Sports cars: Same deal, just on a smaller scale.

I say this with the greatest respect, but you honestly don't have a clue what UK back roads are like. It's hard to explain over the internet, but if you've ever wondered why ride quality is mentioned in every single car review from every single performance-orientated car mag in the UK, it's because it's an incredibly important factor in how much you can get out of the car.

Think of it this way: Which is the more fun to drive - a car that works with the road and your inputs, or a car that you're constantly having to correct as it gets knocked off-line by bumps and struggles to put its power down as the back wheels skip over ruts and holes?

On billiard table roads, go nuts. But don't assume that ride quality is irrelevant in a sports car, as it is relevant.
 
homeforsummer
I say this with the greatest respect, but you honestly don't have a clue what UK back roads are like.
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Having been there last year, yes I know what they are like. I also would like to say that you guys really are not that special in thinking you have the worst roads in the world, because you don't. I've seen worse. In fact I drive on some every day.

homeforsummer
Think of it this way: Which is the more fun to drive - a car that works with the road and your inputs, or a car that you're constantly having to correct as it gets knocked off-line by bumps and struggles to put its power down as the back wheels skip over ruts and holes?

On billiard table roads, go nuts. But don't assume that ride quality is irrelevant in a sports car, as it is relevant.
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Of course it's relevant. What I'm saying is that certain people will purchase these cars and then complain about the ride quality when they should know for a fact that the car was designed in such a matter to provide sporty handling. And with that comes sacrifice in ride quality. It's always been that way.
 
R1600Turbo
Having been there last year, yes I know what they are like. I also would like to say that you guys really are not that special in thinking you have the worst roads in the world, because you don't. I've seen worse. In fact I drive on some every day.
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I find it hard to believe you've experienced the mix of what UK B-roads have to offer.

I'm sure you do have bad roads, but UK roads are known in the industry for being incredibly hard to develop suspension for. This isn't some big UK moan about how crap our roads are. They're actually demonstrably, measurably crap, and as such they're used by several of the top carmakers to ensure their cars work on our roads.

I've plenty of articles to back this up. You can either accept I'm saying it because it's true, or you can go on assuming that I'm having a moan for the sake of it.

Of course it's relevant. What I'm saying is that certain people will purchase these cars and then complain about the ride quality when they should know for a fact that the car was designed in such a matter to provide sporty handling. And with that comes sacrifice in ride quality. It's always been that way.
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There's a difference between complaining about a sports car that's designed to be a bit firmer than a sedan, and complaining about ride quality that's inappropriate for the sort of roads the car is driven on. The former is stupid, the latter is entirely relevant.

I can't help feeling that some people equate the term "ride quality" with "floppy, soggy boat of a car", when in fact it actually refers to everything to do with how the car drives over a given surface.

A car that rides well over one surface may not ride well over another. In the majority of reviews I've read of the 370Z in the UK, it's criticised for its ride quality. That doesn't mean "Oh, why is this sports car so uncomfortable, why does it not ride like a Lexus LS?!". It means that compared to other sports cars, it rides poorly.
 
obsessive rules
Anyway, who's getting the tommy kiara kit for the gt 86?
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Sixteen-year-olds, and folks from Japan with questionable fashion taste.
 
homeforsummer
The 370Z sits on the wrong side of the line in that respect, where the MX-5 and the BRZ seem to be okay from the tests I've read.
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Agreed. I tested all three on reasonably crappy Michigan roads. Driving a couple of bumpy on/off ramps around here at any kind of 'fun' speed in a 370Z is a fair bit scarier since it would jump sideways over some bumps. Stock NC/BRZ eat those fairly comfortably, while maintaining the grip.
 
homeforsummer
I'm sure you do have bad roads, but UK roads are known in the industry for being incredibly hard to develop suspension for. This isn't some big UK moan about how crap our roads are. They're actually demonstrably, measurably crap, and as such they're used by several of the top carmakers to ensure their cars work on our roads.

I've plenty of articles to back this up. You can either accept I'm saying it because it's true, or you can go on assuming that I'm having a moan for the sake of it.
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Bad roads are bad roads. Sounds more like a gripe to me.
 
Sat in a gt86 today and I'm surprised, in a good way. Spacious for a 6footer and I like the nav, the seats were comfy and I liked the position.
 
R1600Turbo
What I'm saying is that certain people will purchase these cars and then complain about the ride quality when they should know for a fact that the car was designed in such a matter to provide sporty handling. And with that comes sacrifice in ride quality. It's always been that way.
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You're making the assumption here that bad ride quality is always a result of sporty handling. 'Ball is always round' does not imply 'round is always ball'. ;) Having owned a 350Z, I can say that was at least the case for the 350Z. Compared to some of its counterparts, it's a fat hog, with bad seating position caused by too short seats and a not-coaxially adjustable steering wheel (unless you're a weird-proportioned midget, then it's okay I guess). The suspension was mediocre at most too. I've driven both sports and non-sports cars that have sportier handling and have better ride quality on top.

I do agree about the complaining bit. If the roads you drive daily are not fit for a certain car, then don't buy it, it was not made with that in mind.

On-topic: I did a little investigation on what a GT86/BRZ would set me back here in NL, and I was not amused. And I would presume many with me. I doubt we'll see them a lot over here (which sort of makes it more interesting again :D).
 
R1600Turbo
I've just never understood people the buy sporty cars and complain about ride quality.
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Because you don't need to bolt the wheels directly to the frame to get decent handling; and overly stiff suspension setups make handling worse, not better.
 
NLxAROSA
On-topic: I did a little investigation on what a GT86/BRZ would set me back here in NL, and I was not amused. And I would presume many with me. I doubt we'll see them a lot over here (which sort of makes it more interesting again :D).
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Tax? Import costs? Or a bit of both?
 
Harder springs mean higher handling limits if done right. On the road this is pointless as these limits will only he reached by racing drivers on a track.
 
obsessive rules
Harder springs mean higher handling limits if done right. On the road this is pointless as these limits will only he reached by racing drivers on a track.
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Actually, you're just wrong about the springs.

All harsher springs do is make the weight transfer when turning occur faster, which makes for the snappier response.
 
homeforsummer
Tax? Import costs? Or a bit of both?
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Mostly tax. Which puts it in a price range where it has to compete with a lot of different other models, both sports cars and non-sports cars (e.g. hot-hatch) alike. I know many think that people do not cross-shop, but the lines between segments are really blurred when it comes to performance, handling and ride quality, and with that being the case, money can definitely be a deciding factor.

R1600Turbo
Ding! Ding! Ding!
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Just saying both sides have a point here. (Yes, I know that's weird in the world of GTP where everything is either black or white :D)
 
Azuremen
Actually, you're just wrong about the springs.

All harsher springs do is make the weight transfer when turning occur faster, which makes for the snappier response.
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The philosophy still applies though.
 
obsessive rules
Car makers set their cars handling limits too darn high. These limits can usually only be accessed on a track by a good driver,
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That wasn't the point you were making at all, you realize this? You said stiffer springs = more grip, which is just false.

And based on what I've read, it isn't that the limits are too high on the FR-S as much as Subaru/Toyota have set the car up with a moderate amount of understeer versus completely neutral handling. Which makes the lack of torque an issue for stepping the car out sideways. If anything, adding stiffer springs to the FR-S with an alignment would probably make it easier to get sideways and slide.
 
R1600Turbo
Ding! Ding! Ding!
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...which implies you've not been paying attention.

Three sports cars. All designed for the same purpose. All designed to be fun on a twisty road.

One of them has suspension that's set up too hard, spoiling the enjoyment of the car on that road.

I've not - at any point - said that sports cars shouldn't be stiff, nor suggested that someone deliberately buy something if it doesn't suit their needs. What I've been saying - that you've been failing to understand - is that some cars are simply badly set up for the job they're designed to do. If two sports cars handle a bumpy road fine and a third doesn't, then it indicates that the third car (in this instance, the 370Z) isn't very well set up.

This is a shame, if a buyer happens to really like the 370Z but lives near a bumpy road.
 
NLxAROSA
If the roads you drive daily are not fit for a certain car, then don't buy it, it was not made with that in mind.
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The problem is that most salesmen are set to a fixed "test drive loop" for insurance purposes, although it's easy enough if you just ask to take a more "comprehensive" route of your own liking. Most people don't think of that, although a rough ride should be easily apparent on a variety of surfaces, unless everything on the route was recently paved.

Salesman like to occasionally distract you with dome lights and radio operation while you drive, which makes you think less about gathering data about the car.
 
Sounds like some people here think that Sports cars have to have bad rides? IDK about you but, when I drive my fathers E46 M3, pretty damn fast, and the ride is comfortable and smooth on silk on almost any roads in Ohio.

Got to drive a TRD 86 a few days ago. Quite a lot of fun although you really had to work to get the tail around. Was not as easy as I was expecting it to be. Had a lot of understeer when driven seriously too. But, for some reason more fun than most of the street cars I've driven. Really made me think out of the box to get it to go faster around corners. Appealed to me :)
 

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