SEAT have ruined the ibiza cupra (apparently)

[forza2.0]

Was meant to look like this:

But apparently looks like this with a 1.4 TSI outputting as much power as the previous gen which just doesnt make sense!

SEAT Ibiza Cupra with 180 HP 1.4-liter TSI and 7-Speed DSG

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080829.004/first-images-details-of-seat-ibiza-cupra-released


What do you guys think? Think I will ditch this as the main candidate for my next car and go with the leon cupra instead.

 

[Tornado]

I think its a marked improvement compared to what it was before. Perhaps a bit too similar to the WRX, though. Is that 1.4 the twincharged one?

 

[homeforsummer]

But apparently looks like this with a 1.4 TSI outputting as much power as the previous gen which just doesnt make sense!

That Cupra concept in the first few photos certainly looks a lot better than the production model, but I don't understand the sentiment of your post.

How does the car having the same power as the previous gen not make sense? 180bhp is still a lot of power and perfectly competitive with other cars in it's class, especially as a turbocharged unit (i.e. the Clio 197 has more power but it's NA so you need to rev the hell out of it, unlike the SEAT). If they gave it too much power then the price and performance would overlap with the Leon FR and Cupra too much (it's less powerful than the Leon Cupra but smaller and lighter so the performance probably won't be too far off).

I also can't see how they've "ruined" it. Is that just your opinion based on the fact it isn't any more powerful?

 

[forza2.0]

Mainly based on its power. 180 is less than the corsa VXR, clio 197, etc and the new set of hot hatches coming out soon will all be 200hp+. Plus a 1.4 twincharger is no good for us hardcore enthusiasts when it comes to tuning it.

Also the brake calipers appear to be weedy on this cupra. Usually cupras have 2 pots or 4 pots racing brakes painted red!

Seat usually tends to lead with power in the hothatch front! Also why would the Cupra be unveield before the FR version?

Im thinking the only explanation is that the FR range is getting ditched, the cupra takes its place and seat will reintroduce the Cupra R name!

 

[Philly]

1) Looks-wise, the only difference I see is one panel that went from being black to red, two foglights and a concept headlight that would have never made it to production.

2) The GTI is running around 200 horsepower. My guess is that VW doesn't want to create too much competition between their brands. SEAT is supposed to be more budget, isn't it?

I must agree that the rear on that production model is quite ugly though.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The rear isn't exactly pretty and I don't like the crease trailing down from the headlight, but at least it's more interesting than the VW offering.

 

[the Interceptor]

Forza, I do understand your passion for Seat, something we share to an extent. My dad has a red Altea 2.0 TDI with DSG which I drive once in a while, and I love it. However, I'm not so sure if we need threads on every new model from Seat which you agree / don't agree with.

On topic: I found it quite obvious that the Ibiza Cupra wouldn't get the Bocanegra (= black nose) design. I sure like that, but I don't find the Cupra worse looking that I expected. I don't particularly like the rear end of the Ibiza on any model, but I think the Cupra looks quite good overall.

On another note, the model seems to be fairly light. I read short review of the 105 ps diesel Cupra the other day, and it was supposed to be the heaviest model at 1,100 kgs. As diesel engines usually are quite heavy, this 1.4 TFSI version should be quite light, which sheds a different light on the lower power figure. I agree that this twin charger engine will be harder to tune than a classic turbo, still, I'm sure there will be tuning kits for this engine as well. Otherwise, I don't see any other engine they would have put in the Ibiza. The Scirocco get's the 1.4 TFSI with two hp figures and a 2.0 TFSI model. Following that logic, a smaller model similar to the Polo would only get the smaller engine.

Overall, I don't see much wrong with this Cupra.

 

[Azuremen]

Is this thread more about the car or your next car option?

Think about it...

 

[homeforsummer]

Mainly based on its power. 180 is less than the corsa VXR, clio 197, etc and the new set of hot hatches coming out soon will all be 200hp+. Plus a 1.4 twincharger is no good for us hardcore enthusiasts when it comes to tuning it.

Which set of hatches are you referring to? The Clio (which I already mentioned) is just under 200bhp but it's not as useable, the Corsa is around 190bhp from a turbo, the Essesse version of the Grande Punto Abarth is 180bhp from a turbocharged engine, the Cooper S is 175bhp and the Works over 200bhp, but price wise it competes with the class above anyway. The fastest Alfa Mito won't have any more power than the SS Punto, VW's next Polo will probably be virtually identical to the Ibiza, and I doubt any impending fast Fiesta will have more than around 180-190bhp.

So I'm not quite sure where you got the 200bhp+ figure from. The only hatches over this are from the class above, and therefore not in competition with the Ibiza.

The car really doesn't need more power as standard than SEAT will be offering, and considering how good it's rivals are, power will be the least of its worries anyway.

 

[NLxAROSA]

On topic: I found it quite obvious that the Ibiza Cupra wouldn't get the Bocanegra (= black nose) design.

Actually, it means 'black mouth'. But I really think we have to wait for actual performance numbers to see how it turns out. If they manage to keep the weight down, 180BHP may be enough. I just checked this on a Dutch car database, the 1.6 Ibiza SC weighs only 990kg, which is not a lot according to todays standards. The 1.9 TDI weighs 1075kg.

 

[the Interceptor]

Actually, it means 'black mouth'.

Yes, you're right. Sorry, confused that.

 

[homeforsummer]

But I really think we have to wait for actual performance numbers to see how it turns out. If they manage to keep the weight down, 180BHP may be enough. I just checked this on a Dutch car database, the 1.6 Ibiza SC weighs only 990kg, which is not a lot according to todays standards. The 1.9 TDI weighs 1075kg.

Even if they didn't keep the weight down, 180bhp is enough for the class the car is in. At 1100kg the car wouldn't be too heavy for the class, but if the 990kg for the 1.6 figure is true, it's likely to be the lightest of the bunch unless the upcoming Fiesta is as light as the Mazda 2 on which it's based.

 

[NLxAROSA]

I got it from a car database, but to be sure I checked with seat.nl and it is indeed correct. I for one am happy to see at least some manufacturers don't go along with this weight/power spiral.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The production model looks OK, what's the beef?

 

[Jim Prower]

I think part of it's the twincharger's tunability. I dunno, smaller pulley on the blower, that usually works.

Secondly, what automobile has come out looking EXACTLY like the concept version? Even the R8 didn't look exactly the same. I can only think of one.

Plymouth Prowler.

 

[niky]

If it were to come in at under 1000 kilograms in Cupra form, that'd be bleeding fantastic... you'd only notice the slight lack of power at very high speeds...

Weight cures a lot of ills... a 1100 kilo car with 180 bhp would feel a hell of a lot faster than a 1300 kilo car with 200 bhp... besides... turbocharging forgives a lot of sins.

But if the issue is modability... yeah... a 1.4 just ain't going to cut it... buying a turbocharged 2.0, like a Golf GTi or even a turbo 2.5 like the Focus ST would give you more power options down the road... though current hot hatches aren't at the level yet where they can handle more than 250 bhp without piggish understeer and torque-steer.

_____


RE: looks: doesn't look much different from the concept... except for the black paint on the front bumper, which would be easy enough to copy.

 

[homeforsummer]

But if the issue is modability... yeah... a 1.4 just ain't going to cut it... buying a turbocharged 2.0, like a Golf GTi or even a turbo 2.5 like the Focus ST would give you more power options down the road...

As far as tuning goes, modders are going to have to either be more innovative, or put up and shut up. Companies are downsizing their engines whether people like it or not, so it makes little sense people bitching about it (not aiming this comment at anyone by the way, I'm just saying in general).

Anyway, 180bhp out of 1400cc isn't half bad anyway. If many modders didn't fill their cars with stupid audio equipment they wouldn't need as much power to haul them down the road. Wouldn't be surprised if most Ibizas ended up way more than 1000kg anyway because they'll have a boot full of subs and amps, and a roll cage that doesn't serve any purpose bumping up the weight.

 

[Danny]

Was meant to look like this:
What do you guys think? Think I will ditch this as the main candidate for my next car and go with the leon cupra instead.

What do I think? I think you're an idiot for judging and disliking a car because it doesn't look exactly like one of Seat's concepts and making only the same hp as it's predecessor. It's like young_warrior all over again.

I like the look of the new Ibiza Cupra.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Actually, I decided it just got better than the concept, there aren't so many old and bald men standing around it trying to take the attention.

 

[niky]

As far as tuning goes, modders are going to have to either be more innovative, or put up and shut up. Companies are downsizing their engines whether people like it or not, so it makes little sense people bitching about it (not aiming this comment at anyone by the way, I'm just saying in general).

Anyway, 180bhp out of 1400cc isn't half bad anyway. If many modders didn't fill their cars with stupid audio equipment they wouldn't need as much power to haul them down the road. Wouldn't be surprised if most Ibizas ended up way more than 1000kg anyway because they'll have a boot full of subs and amps, and a roll cage that doesn't serve any purpose bumping up the weight.

Actually, point of fact... 180 bhp out of 1.4 liters is nothing short of fantastic... that's the problem... not much more you can squeeze out of it without a bottom-end rebuild, especially considering the 10:1 compression and the need for high-octane fuel. I'd probably stroke it and bring the compression down a little, see if it can't hold maybe another 50 hp or so.

Yeah, we can't get around the fact that the world is downsizing (in fact, I'm a fan of small engines)... but 2.0 is not an excessive engine size by any measure... and the fact that a well-built 2.0 can hold 300 hp with little sweat means that it's the perfect size for modification, to use in a variety of vehicles.

 

[the Interceptor]

180 bhp from a 1.4 is a lot. Putting Evo figures into the picture (150 bhp per liter), such an engine should be capable of 210 bhp. Not a lot to gain there, but some more. I'm actually looking forward to the twin charged engine nevertheless, simply because I want to see what tuners make of the more difficult, but more versatile super-/turbocharger setup.

 

[forza2.0]

Right, basically I can stop being disapointed now as this "cupra" is infact really a FR. However SEAT want to release a Ibiza Bocanegra like the concept, so decided to ditch the FR designation and give it the cupra one.

Fits in well with what sources have said.

They said Ibiza FR with 1.4 twincharger with 170-180hp to be available to buy from february 09. This cupra is being unveiled officially in october so it being in showrooms from feburary fits. Also the bocanegra will be in showrooms come september 09 and should have a 2.0TFSI with 211hp.

What do I think? I think you're an idiot for judging and disliking a car because it doesn't look exactly like one of Seat's concepts and making only the same hp as it's predecessor. It's like young_warrior all over again.

I like the look of the new Ibiza Cupra.

You are an idiot, how else do you judge cars, if not on looks speed, and its chassis capabilities, especially when you had high hopes, and then it appears that the old cupra, albeit being a bit heavier will be a better performer due to better brakes and a more tuneable engine.

And if im a idiot then I take it so are all the other disapointed guys over on the SEAT forums.

You like it, I dont grow up and dont call people idiots for no good reason. Kids.

 

[YSSMAN]

So, its more or less that you're worried that its not much more than a 180 BHP SEAT-badged version of the Polo GTI? Hell, if its as cheap and stylish as you make it out to be, I don't know why I'd be worried at all. Either way, its going to be a good car, right?

If anything, I'd be more worried about chassis tune than engine power, as a VAG fan, you should know that.

===

That being said, I still prefer the Fiesta in this segment these days. That, or the Honda Fit. Too bad Honda won't offer a 180 BHP version of THAT...

 

[forza2.0]

So, its more or less that you're worried that its not much more than a 180 BHP SEAT-badged version of the Polo GTI? Hell, if its as cheap and stylish as you make it out to be, I don't know why I'd be worried at all. Either way, its going to be a good car, right?

If anything, I'd be more worried about chassis tune than engine power, as a VAG fan, you should know that.

===

That being said, I still prefer the Fiesta in this segment these days. That, or the Honda Fit. Too bad Honda won't offer a 180 BHP version of THAT...

The new chassis is meant to be really good, the new seat has been getting alot of praise about its dynamics and handling. Now that we have figured out this is not the top of the line ibiza I have to say im happy. Its got 10 extra hp than I thought it would and it doesnt look to similar to the standard ibiza sports like the mk4's did. This car should only be like 13k so not bad at all.

 

[homeforsummer]

The new chassis is meant to be really good, the new seat has been getting alot of praise about its dynamics and handling.

Not particularly.

Our overall impression the Ibiza SportCoupe is of a good-looking car that’s more than competent in every way. If you’re expecting something overtly sporty, you’ll be disappointed however... It seems more suited to school run mums who want a nippy town runabout rather than keen drivers after a cheap hot hatch

...in saying the chassis is non-sporty they aren't being overly modest. It can get positively wallowy... Sure enough, trading up to a 1.6 petrol on sport suspension and 17-inch alloys secures quicker responses, more grip and a sense it's happy to the chucked around, but there's still a slight layer of sogginess in the responses

But surely SEATs should be fun, agile, exuberant little cars? This one, although lighter and stiffer than the model it replaces, isn’t surprising or exciting in any way. It’s polished and well made but utterly lacks pizzazz

The SportCoupé is a capable all-rounder; it just lacks sparkle. We can only hope the 150bhp FR and 180bhp Cupra versions, on sale in February, bring the excitement the looks deserve.

Now I know the FR and Cupra will be better, but to me it looks as if the handling is distinctly average by class standards. Most of the reviews I found gave it no more than 3 out of 5 stars.

The last quote is interesting too - are you certain the model you've posted is the FR? Auto Express seem to think the Cupra will be the 180bhp model and the FR will have 150bhp. Where did you find the info on a 211bhp model?

 

[forza2.0]

Not particularly.









Now I know the FR and Cupra will be better, but to me it looks as if the handling is distinctly average by class standards. Most of the reviews I found gave it no more than 3 out of 5 stars.

The last quote is interesting too - are you certain the model you've posted is the FR? Auto Express seem to think the Cupra will be the 180bhp model and the FR will have 150bhp. Where did you find the info on a 211bhp model?

Those reviews were all on like the 1.4 SE with the shopping trolley mumsy suspension. The german reviews rate it highly giving it the praise that it deserves, dont know why some english publications expect the bottom of the range shopping trolley models to handle like a hothatch?

Autoexpress know nothing they always get things wrong and then its own members correct them on their site.

We have been told by seat dealership employees that they have been told by SEAT UK that the FR comes out in ferbuary with a 1.4 twincharger engine and the cupra in september. They also said horsepower to be 170+ for FR and 200+ for the cupra.

However cupra now seems to be the FR and Bocanegra the new cupra. Also VAG dont have a 150hp petrol engine anyway.

And the top of the range ibiza having over 200hp fits in with the rest of the SEAT range. Why would SEAT allow the new gen top of the range Ibiza to have a 60hp deficiete over the Leon Cupra? Doesnt make sense. By giving the top of the range Ibiza 200hp plus keeps the power gap between the MK2 Leon Cupra the same as what the power gap was between the MK1 Leon Cupra R and the mk4 ibiza cupra, roughly 45hp!

 

[homeforsummer]

Those reviews were all on like the 1.4 SE with the shopping trolley mumsy suspension. The german reviews rate it highly giving it the praise that it deserves, dont know why some english publications expect the bottom of the range shopping trolley models to handle like a hothatch?

They don't. The majority of the publications above tested a number of the models in the range. You'll see that the Top Gear quote in particular tested the current top model of the sport coupe, the 1.6.

Autoexpress know nothing they always get things wrong and then its own members correct them on their site.

Auto Express do make errors sometimes in their effort to be first with all news, but as far as details go they're usually very good, especially on VAG products as one of their sister titles is a German magazine (I think I'm right in saying Auto Motor und Sport).

We have been told by seat dealership employees that they have been told by SEAT UK that the FR comes out in ferbuary with a 1.4 twincharger engine and the cupra in september. They also said horsepower to be 170+ for FR and 200+ for the cupra.

You don't trust magazines yet you trust a dealership? Many dealers don't know which hole to s*** out of a lot of the time, and many also have a worrying habit of being very far behind with knowing what their company is doing.

Why would SEAT allow the new gen top of the range Ibiza to have a 60hp deficiete over the Leon Cupra?

You know what? I really don't know. But you're acting like the car is underpowered even with 180bhp, which is nonsense.

 

[Jondot]

Those reviews were all on like the 1.4 SE with the shopping trolley mumsy suspension. The german reviews rate it highly giving it the praise that it deserves, dont know why some english publications expect the bottom of the range shopping trolley models to handle like a hothatch?

Autoexpress know nothing they always get things wrong and then its own members correct them on their site.

We have been told by seat dealership employees that they have been told by SEAT UK that the FR comes out in ferbuary with a 1.4 twincharger engine and the cupra in september. They also said horsepower to be 170+ for FR and 200+ for the cupra.

However cupra now seems to be the FR and Bocanegra the new cupra. Also VAG dont have a 150hp petrol engine anyway.

And the top of the range ibiza having over 200hp fits in with the rest of the SEAT range. Why would SEAT allow the new gen top of the range Ibiza to have a 60hp deficiete over the Leon Cupra? Doesnt make sense. By giving the top of the range Ibiza 200hp plus keeps the power gap between the MK2 Leon Cupra the same as what the power gap was between the MK1 Leon Cupra R and the mk4 ibiza cupra, roughly 45hp!

...

Sorry, I'm confused. Are you an Ibiza fanboy anymore or not?

 

[forza2.0]

They don't. The majority of the publications above tested a number of the models in the range. You'll see that the Top Gear quote in particular tested the current top model of the sport coupe, the 1.6.

Fair enough, but putting things into perspective considering they are bottom of the range models I would say all of the reviews are positive ones, except barring the Evo one but that is so heavily geared towards high performance vehicles I never take anymore notice of what they write tbh as you already know what they will say and what their verdict will be before even open the magazine.

Auto Express do make errors sometimes in their effort to be first with all news, but as far as details go they're usually very good, especially on VAG products as one of their sister titles is a German magazine (I think I'm right in saying Auto Motor und Sport).

They make quite a few errors I have noticed when it comes to VAG, but that can be forgiven.

You don't trust magazines yet you trust a dealership? Many dealers don't know which hole to s*** out of a lot of the time, and many also have a worrying habit of being very far behind with knowing what their company is doing.

Yes that is true but then there are currently two dealers that are real life enthusiasts themselves and therefore are on the SEAT forums giving us inside info on the new models based on their meetings with SEAT UK.

You know what? I really don't know. But you're acting like the car is underpowered even with 180bhp, which is nonsense.

For the 2nd top of the range version 180hp is loads. The thing with the cupra range is that they were never the class leaders in the handling department, but what made up for it was the powerful engines and the superb brakes. Therefore its what us SEAT fans have come to love about SEAT, the fact that when it comes to power the range is usually at the forefront compared to the competition. Also its natural progress, no one wants to buy that is newer but with just as much power, less power or worse handling. Just look at the new civic type r, its predecessor was better.

But anyway it looks like the cupra (fr) is gonna be a performance bargain, and the bocanegra is gonna blow the socks off the competition!

 

[Leonidae]

ibiza cupra.. ruined? was there something to ruin? The VW versions look better by a mile, and they probably have better handling too. Seat is supposed to be cheaper, not-quite-as-good-as VW. It's about on par with Skoda, which means that they'll never be as good as VW, despite having more power or dramatic looks.