SEAT Ibiza FR spypics

[forza2.0]

[/QUOTE]


Engine will probably be a 170hp 1.4 TSI with a 7 gear DSG gearbox. Available in europe early 2009.

Cupra/bocanegra yet to come. SEAT to possibly be availbe in North america from 2010.

Shaping up to my next car. Not too keen on the 1.4 TSI though, but will keep openminded till I drive one.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Nice looking car, but it has that goddamn Corsa hip at the rear.

But niiccee looking car.

 

[Jim Prower]

SEAT may have a nice-looking product, but they have a funny name to put up with...

Do they not realize that Americans are likely gonna hear that name and think....

We'll take them as VWs, thanks.

((I'll withhold the personal reason for my dislike of the brand))

 

[MustangSVT]

How I wish they offered a car like this in canada. I'd get my dad to get one as daily driver.

 

[Tornado]

I don't see how Volkswagen will manage to sell the cheaper, less known version of a Golf in America when the Rabbit already starts at $14,000. Seems like a waste to me.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I would rather drive this than the Golf.

 

[forza2.0]

This car is not a golf sized vehicle. Its polo sized.

this is a polo.

Seat Ibizas are like polos but cheaper, sporty and pack more BHP for less even when using the same engines.


The SEAT version of the golf is the leon. Again, cheaper sportier, faster and for less money.

I believe SEAT's are already available in mexico.

 

[Tornado]

So its a smaller car than the Golf with a silly name, no brand recognition and internal competition from the Golf itself (which it doesn't have in Europe). I believe we have gone over why Volkswagen can never sell the Polo here, and I don't think this will be any different unless they dump it here for Korean car prices.

 

[forza2.0]

So its a smaller car than the Golf with a silly name, no brand recognition and internal competition from the Golf itself (which it doesn't have in Europe). I believe we have gone over why Volkswagen can never sell the Polo here, and I don't think this will be any different unless they dump it here for Korean car prices.

I think the whole point of SEATs in america is to undercut VW slightly and being the enthusiast choice of VAG for those who cannot afford a Audi.

Audi worked closely with SEAT on the new ibiza, and the engine that the Leon Cupra uses.

The leon is a slightly bigger than the golf. The ibiza has grown in size too.

 

[Tornado]

There is a problem with that goal though, and that is because VAG has stopped positioning VW as cheap Audis like they were during the Mk. IV models. To undercut the Rabbit, they would need to sell the car for Korean car prices. The Rabbit is only $14,000 in America, and is one of the cheapest new cars one can buy. In Europe VAG can position SEAT as a lower priced VW or Audi. Inn America that won't fly, especially if they try to sell the smaller Ibiza for prices similar to the Rabbit. And they honestly can't not sell the Ibiza for similar prices to the Rabbit without losing money on them.
In essence, by making VW try to have such a larger market share, they haev prevented themselves from offering the Polo or any SEAT model. I think Skoda would honestly have more chance in America, because their models are more differentiated from VWs than SEATS are.

 

[homeforsummer]

So its a smaller car than the Golf with a silly name

Silly name, that made me laugh, when the Golf is called the Rabbit in the States. I think I'd marginally choose a car named after an island to a car named after a rodent that has a reputation for being run over by cars

That said, at $14k I'd be prepared to put up with the name Rabbit. Ironically that amount (give or take) would get you the VW Fox in the UK, VW's very base model. I think this is an occasion where the Rabbit has the upper hand to the Fox...(and what is it with the animal names... VW's previous small car was called the Lupo, which is an approximation of 'wolf' in Latin):

VW Fox

 

[Jim Prower]

As a fan of Foxes, that one leaves me scratching my head. Aren't Foxes LARGER than Rabbits? And the Lupo's a Wolf...That's bigger than a FOX!!!

why is it that VW's Smaller cars get the names of larger animals? What would a microcar be, the Elephant?

 

[mustangGT90210]

As a fan of Foxes, that one leaves me scratching my head. Aren't Foxes LARGER than Rabbits? And the Lupo's a Wolf...That's bigger than a FOX!!!

why is it that VW's Smaller cars get the names of larger animals? What would a microcar be, the Elephant?

I was always a fan of a different Fox myself. A quick little bugger, with a 302 under the bonnet.

 

[JCE]

Awsome looking car. I'd love to see this stateside.

SEAT may have a nice-looking product, but they have a funny name to put up with...

Do they not realize that Americans are likely gonna hear that name and think....

Then lot and lots of commercials are needed where the annoucer says the name properly. "SAY AT" And not "seet".

 

[YSSMAN]

I was always a fan of a different Fox myself. A quick little bugger, with a 302 under the bonnet.

Haaaa...

I think I may be the only member on here who has owned a VW Fox, right?

I don't think we'll see VW bring the name back here in the US, but I could be wrong. Then again, I really don't know. The Polo, I assume, will come here as the Polo... And probably start somewhere around $12K or so (where the Fiesta, Fit, and the like all reside).

 

[Brett]

Seems to be a pretty good looking car. Other than that, I do not have much else to say about it at the moment, as I do not know a bunch about SEAT.

 

[Azuremen]

I wonder what the weight will be. If they keep it under 2800 pounds, should be great fun.

The way it looks is just amazing, at least in these shots. Can't wait to see more and hope it does come to the US market.

 

[YSSMAN]

It'll come here, as a Polo. Sorry kids... I don't think VW North America wants to spend the cash on a new brand when they can't even get their own cars to sell well enough in the first place.

I'll have that, thanks...

 

[Jim Prower]

Rather a Polo than a SEET.

 

[forza2.0]

I wonder what the weight will be. If they keep it under 2800 pounds, should be great fun.

The way it looks is just amazing, at least in these shots. Can't wait to see more and hope it does come to the US market.

Well actually this new generation Ibiza is about 50kg lighter whilst the chassis is 25% stiffer than the outgoing car. Depending on the engine the new ibiza weighs roughly about 1050kg/2310lbs. And with the cupra version going to be packing 200hp and above thats a nice power to weight ratio.

It'll come here, as a Polo. Sorry kids... I don't think VW North America wants to spend the cash on a new brand when they can't even get their own cars to sell well enough in the first place.

It seemingly works elsewhere and in mexico! But if you want your polo GTI that performs as well as a Ibiza FR and costs more than cupra then thats up to you.

The thing with SEAT is that a good chunk of cars they sell are the FR and Cupra models. In america SEAT would just come along, undercut the likes of the Golf GTI with their leon cupra in price whilst offering a Extra 40hp thanks to the audi S3 sourced engine which pushed out a healthy 300hp after a remap. Sounds good to me.

The Rabbit is only $14,000 in America, and is one of the cheapest new cars one can buy. In Europe VAG can position SEAT as a lower priced VW or Audi. Inn America that won't fly, especially if they try to sell the smaller Ibiza for prices similar to the Rabbit. And they honestly can't not sell the Ibiza for similar prices to the Rabbit without losing money on them.

VAG are opening factories in the states, and if anything they would kick off their range with FR and cupra models only. Therefore instead of paying $14,000 for a dreadfully boring base golf you could have a much more fun and faster ibiza FR for that money.

 

[YSSMAN]

Or you can stop over-filling on the VAG kool-aide and get real for a minute. No one in America has SEAT on their radar, and with sales of VW already questionable as it is, there isn't a single VAG fan in the US who would find the sale of these cars in the States anywhere near possible at the moment.

...Its not that we don't want them, its more or less that VW can't afford to do it...

Why?

- Marketing costs
- New dealerships
- Certification process issues
- Questionable sales versus what is already available

As of right now, its not a good idea to launch a new brand. Take a look at the Scion story to see why...

 

[Tornado]

In america SEAT would just come along, undercut the likes of the Golf GTI with their leon cupra in price whilst offering a Extra 40hp thanks to the audi S3 sourced engine which pushed out a healthy 300hp after a remap.

How will Volkswagen manage to undercut the already quite cheap GTI and expect to make a profit?

Therefore instead of paying $14,000 for a dreadfully boring base golf you could have a much more fun and faster ibiza FR for that money.

The Rabbit is an established, historic name from an established, historic brand. Selling at bargain bin prices. For a decidedly above bargain bin car. Coupled with brilliant marketing campaigns. And VW is still having problems selling them. The SEAT Ibiza is none of those things, and is a smaller car. Why do you think introducing a new brand made up entirely of VW rehashes with a name that will undoubtedly become the punch line for many jokes be any different? If VW wants more market share, they would do well not to introduce new brands who merely cannibalize VW sales (they had the same problems when they tried to position VW upmarket and found it not only scared away return buyers, but also stole Audi sales and killed VW resale prices). Skoda might work at doing this. SEAT would not.

 

[YSSMAN]

And VW is still having problems selling them.

Quite right, which is why the jury has officially been "out" as to how soon we'd get the next Golf. VW North America wants it ASAP, word is that VW Europe isn't willing to send it over right away...

Its a shocking bargain in the class, consistently rated as one of the top models, but the below-average fuel economy matched with high insurance prices and parts costs keep average people away... And that's been the VW problem as of late. They can't seem to reel in the young/hip buyers that defined their market share from before.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

And that's been the VW problem as of late. They can't seem to reel in the young/hip buyers that defined their market share from before.

And that's where the Ibiza could come in. I think the Polo should be able to sell well once it comes in. VW needs a small, light, fuel efficient car.

 

[Tornado]

And that's where the Ibiza could come in.

I fail to see how the Ibiza would solve any of the problems that the Golf is currently suffering from. It shares major components with the VW range, so it won't be much more reliable or cheaper to fix. If VW does sell it here and position it as a sort of boy racer brand, insurance won't be cheaper and may be more expensive. And the Polo with similar engines doesn't get that much better mileage than the Golf, so it won't solve the fuel mileage problems. And it would be a smaller car from a brand new brand for the same cost (or more) as the larger Rabbit that will no doubt be the punchline of many jokes.

 

[forza2.0]

And that's been the VW problem as of late. They can't seem to reel in the young/hip buyers that defined their market share from before.

And now you know why VAG thinks SEAT would do well. VW is a boring brand. SEAT is getting alot of the young customers, who find the VW range is too expensive, and too boring for what it is. I mean the golf GTI itself looks rather plain jane, and all the enthusiasts in the UK who want a golf GTI like car, are ending up in a Leon Cupra instead.

...Its not that we don't want them, its more or less that VW can't afford to do it...

So then how come VAG are seriously considering sending SEAT over there? Surely they must know better than you and I.

Alfa romeo is coming over to the states, and SEAT in VAG circles is often called, VAG's Alfa Romeo.

SEAT are expanding their lines aswell. There will be several new models, all engineered with the input of audi, hell half of SEATs current leadership board is made up of ex-audi guys.

The Rabbit is an established, historic name from an established, historic brand. Selling at bargain bin prices. For a decidedly above bargain bin car. Coupled with brilliant marketing campaigns. And VW is still having problems selling them.

I wouldnt want that crappy 2.5 5cyl golf either.

The SEAT Ibiza is none of those things, and is a smaller car

Well where was SEAT 10 years ago in europe? Nowhere. Where was audi 18 years ago? Nowhere great either. But look at them both now. All VW has from a enthusiast point of view is the Golf GTI, which looks are rather understated and a bit boring these days compared to the competition and the R32 which is a very expensive golf.

Looking at the VW america site the base rabbit starts at $15,600 and the GTI $22,800. Now the Leon Cupra would come in at about $21,000 and thats a golf GTI with a superior engine, less boring looks, and much much better brakes. For the SEAT equivelant to the GOLF GTI, the Leon FR you would be looking at $18,000. Works no?

So a Ibiza FR which handles better, is more fun, faster could undercut the base rabbit whilst saving its owner on fuel aswell seeing as the 2.5 5cyl rabbits mpg is absoloutely crap. I really cant see the problem. The mini sells well, and in europe people who look at mini cooper s' will also have a look at the likes of the clio 197, ibiza cupra etc etc.

And it would be a smaller car from a brand new brand for the same cost (or more) as the larger Rabbit that will no doubt be the punchline of many jokes.

If people want a golf sized car they would buy the SEAT Leon. If they want smaller they will go for the ibiza so there is no issue there. Infact the new range of SEAT Ibiza is actually cheaper than the already cheap outgoing MK4.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

The car looks pretty good. 170hp isn't bad from an aspirated 1.4L! And the 7spd should help the giddy-up a lot too.

 

[Jim Prower]

But, If I buy one, will I start claiming laptimes at the 'ring are bogus due to tire issues, and find any hole I can to attack the Nissan GT-R?

But, on a more serious note...Even if SEAT is brought in as some sort of a "Pontiac" brand, they'll have to build their motorsport image in this country...somehow. They might try Speed Touring Car, or Koni Challenge, (with an Leon much more production-based than their BTCC/WTCC car) or converting one to RWD and entering it RS*R Scion-style in Formula-D, or building an "Import" drag car out of a diesel...which would be kinda cool...But that's about it. Rally barely gets much coverage, and SEAT would have to release a Gr. N car, and we have no FIA-type Touring Car Championship...just NASCAR.

and mentioning Scion reminds me of another thing...Wouldn't this be like Scion? that brand's not doing well. I also noticed an utter lack of 4-door cars...you know how Americans feel about hatchies.

 

[forza2.0]

But, If I buy one, will I start claiming laptimes at the 'ring are bogus due to tire issues, and find any hole I can to attack the Nissan GT-R?

But, on a more serious note...Even if SEAT is brought in as some sort of a "Pontiac" brand, they'll have to build their motorsport image in this country...somehow. They might try Speed Touring Car, or Koni Challenge, (with an Leon much more production-based than their BTCC/WTCC car) or converting one to RWD and entering it RS*R Scion-style in Formula-D, or building an "Import" drag car out of a diesel...which would be kinda cool...But that's about it. Rally barely gets much coverage, and SEAT would have to release a Gr. N car, and we have no FIA-type Touring Car Championship...just NASCAR.

and mentioning Scion reminds me of another thing...Wouldn't this be like Scion? that brand's not doing well. I also noticed an utter lack of 4-door cars...you know how Americans feel about hatchies.

Looking at the scion site its no comparison. You cannot compare those things to a SEAT its a joke. Scions have no real performance and looks like just another generic box or coupe.

As for pontiac they do offer alot of power for the money, but I dont think SEAT would sell any cars in that sort of price range so they would not really compete. Think only the upcoming SEAT Exeo, Audi A4 style car, could possibly compete with a pontiac but only if SEAT want to start selling vehicles for over £22k/$22k. And if they did chances are it would be 4wd.

 

[Leonidae]

Kia and Huyndai have better offerings for same or less price. and maintenance costs with trick tranny like that will not please americans.