SEAT Ibiza FR spypics

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I fail to see how the Ibiza would solve any of the problems that the Golf is currently suffering from.

It wouldn't look as boring.

 

[forza2.0]

Kia and Huyndai have better offerings for same or less price. and maintenance costs with trick tranny like that will not please americans.

Since when does kia or hyundai have good handling, good quality, eye pleasing vehichles that packs up to 240hp stock, or 300hp with a remap for $21,000, and wont depreciate quickers than a 12 litre hummer in the current gas/fuel crisis.

 

[YSSMAN]

And now you know why VAG thinks SEAT would do well. VW is a boring brand. SEAT is getting alot of the young customers, who find the VW range is too expensive, and too boring for what it is. I mean the golf GTI itself looks rather plain jane, and all the enthusiasts in the UK who want a golf GTI like car, are ending up in a Leon Cupra instead.

You're not listening. Not even remotely close. VAG won't spend the money to introduce a new brand when they're pouring cashing to VW to take it back to where it was... Bringing in newer, less-expensive products to bring the kids back in. Sure, they may be "boring," but you've gotta remember that here in the US by comparison VW is still a pretty spunky brand when cross-shopped with Toyota and Honda. The problem is, companies like Mazda and MINI are still beyond that VW can do, and in the end, thats why we're seeing their sales grow.

I know you get your rocks off on SEAT, I understand that, but it won't work in the US. Not in the short-term. And to that end, VW isn't willing to make an investment like that. I don't know of a single VW fan here in North America who even have those cars on their radar, as once again, they'd rather have proper attention given to the VW models than get a new brand altogether.

It would just be pointless.

 

[forza2.0]

You're not listening. Not even remotely close. VAG won't spend the money to introduce a new brand when they're pouring cashing to VW to take it back to where it was... Bringing in newer, less-expensive products to bring the kids back in. Sure, they may be "boring," but you've gotta remember that here in the US by comparison VW is still a pretty spunky brand when cross-shopped with Toyota and Honda. The problem is, companies like Mazda and MINI are still beyond that VW can do, and in the end, thats why we're seeing their sales grow.

I know you get your rocks off on SEAT, I understand that, but it won't work in the US. Not in the short-term. And to that end, VW isn't willing to make an investment like that. I don't know of a single VW fan here in North America who even have those cars on their radar, as once again, they'd rather have proper attention given to the VW models than get a new brand altogether.

It would just be pointless.

Could it be because the majority of VAG car fans in america dont know what a SEAT even is? SEAT seems to be doing well in mexico, and VAG know that to make money they have to spend money. Ex Audi bosses are running SEAT now and they have learned alot on the road to taking audi towards the top. SEAT is going to be expanding big time, and therefore they want to penentrate the US market.

If VAG didnt want to spend money, then there wouldnt be discussions of SEAR coming to the US full stop. And remember that audi has full control over SEAT, that SEAT can develop their own vehicles and come up with their own strategy plans. SEAT has also got some of VAG's most hi tech R&D centers and with ever increasing sales are getting more freedom to to what they want.

The ex audi bosses are not messing about, they have set a target and are steaming towards it, what they are doing is reminscent of what audi has done, a proven formula.

SEAT is to VW a bit like how Mazda is to ford.

Mazda and ford works and on that basis SEAT and VW can work.

VW is the car for the people, VW is there to be the serious plane jane dependable auto manufacturer. Audi is the premium version and SEAT the sporty. It can work and its working in europe.

 

[Leonidae]

Huyndai has its coupe, and soon it'll be available as rwd. in addition, it'll be priced competitively against Ford Mustang with similar performance. and in 240bhp? bah, there's already Solstice and Redline, with 260bhp on tap. and if it has to be FF, answer is easy: second hand MS3. I'd love to see a Seat that comes even near that performance.

 

[forza2.0]

Huyndai has its coupe, and soon it'll be available as rwd. in addition, it'll be priced competitively against Ford Mustang with similar performance. and in 240bhp? bah, there's already Solstice and Redline, with 260bhp on tap. and if it has to be FF, answer is easy: second hand MS3. I'd love to see a Seat that comes even near that performance.

Comparing secong hand to new is not a fair comparison and a coupe is a completly different beast to a 4 door or 2 door hatchback.

The solstice and redline are both 2 seaters no? SEATs 2 seater has not yet arrived, but audi/porsche/seat are working on one apparently.

MS3 = MS3?

MS3 has been disapointing and the Leon Cupra is advertised to be pumping out 240hp but actually thats a underrated figure. Some people have got prinouts for up to 260hp.

 

[Jim Prower]

Thing is...thanks to what we did to the Beetle...VW has a different face in America. Less Serious, more fun-loving, spunky. I think one of the issues with the Rabbit is that it's a little TOO cheap, a little subpar. It just doesn't live up to expectations anymore.

I personally would be less opposed if you'd stop trying to force-feed VAG - Especially Audi/SEAT - Propoganda down my throat. It'd take a couple years, though, for me to forget about it completely, but the more you you argue, the less convinced I am I want one.

Remember, you, as an owner, are advertising for SEAT as much as a television commercial or a race car would. Right now, I'm not sure I want to have the image of a young, pugnacious forum user. I mean, I appreciate your enthusiasm, I'm just as enthusiastic about a 20-year-old econobox, but it's SEAT this and Audi that...

 

[Tornado]

You simply don't understand, do you? Volkswagen sales are struggling. Volkswagen of America's biggest goal is to fix that problem. You yourself said is: why buy a base Rabbit if you can get an Ibiza. So ask yourself this: Why in hell would VoA allow the release of a sister brand when they are having enough problems selling cars as it is? Especially if, by your own opinion, the sister brand is more desirable? It seems pretty stupid to think that VAG would jeopardize delicate VoA sales numbers just for the sake of doing so, especially when there is a whole lot more at stake with VoA sales numbers than any brand made up of rehashes. Your essentially saying the equivalent of Honda launching Acura way back in the 70s.
You said that SEAT was nothing in Europe a decade ago until VAG started rebuilding it, so why not try in America? Because in Europe, SEAT had was already around when VAG started fixing it, and when VAG started working on SEAT they had money to burn worldwide. That isn't the case now when it comes to American sales

You know what I've also noticed? You have been saying all along that VAG knows more than us when it comes to VW (as lovely cars like a Phaeton have so clearly shown), and that they are seriously considering bringing SEAT here despite there being zero room for it to happen at the current time. So here's a fun exercise for you: Prove it.

MS3 has been disapointing and the Leon Cupra is advertised to be pumping out 240hp but actually thats a underrated figure. Some people have got prinouts for up to 260hp.

Blah blah fanboy garbage blah blah.

 

[forza2.0]

lol you guys need to look at the bigger picture.

Buyer A wants a cheap, fast, small car that looks great, is well built and handles superbly.

In north america his options are a scion, mini cooper s and that honda fit thing to name a few. The mini is great and expensive, and the other 2 albeit the fit having some desirable qualities are kinda lacklustre. The Ibiza does everything the mini does, but for cheaper.

SEAT's presence in international markets (outside of Europe) has yet to be realised, with the failed plan to launch SEAT in Canada in 1994, and with the withdrawing of SEAT from the Australian market after only selling its range from 1995-1999. SEAT is also positioned to launch in the United States sometime after 2008,[citation needed] although this has yet to be verified as a certainty. SEAT currently continues to expand to international markets under the Volkswagen Group, particularly in the Middle East and Asia. They have already achieved some success in Thailand and Israel.

So they are expanding worldwide, and north america will eventually sell SEAT's too. Its been said so that SEAT will expand its lineup with about 12 new models and they want to get to north america by around 2010. Cant find the article as obviously googling SEAT will not bring up the sort of results im looking for.

when VAG started working on SEAT they had money to burn worldwide. That isn't the case now when it comes to American sales

VAG are doing fairly well know though. Money needs to be spent for more money to be made. Plus didnt GM send over a series of different traditionally american marques to europe, namely caddie when GM is deeply in debt. Then theres alfa romeo, not exactly a run away sales success anywhere but perhaps italy yet they are coming to the states. FIAT another company who doenst exactly have money to throw around.

When I bought my SEAT i also checked out corsas, fiestas and the polo. If the ibiza didnt exist VAG wouldnt have got any of my money as the polo is:

A: boring
B: Expensive
C: Not all that fun to drive
D: Not that swift

So had the ibiza not existed I would have probably got the fiesta.

Thing is...thanks to what we did to the Beetle...VW has a different face in America. Less Serious, more fun-loving, spunky.

I have seen the VoA website and they try to be young and spunky but the VW lineup just doesnt match this. Young and spunky, and VW just doesnt go together. I was amazed at how crappy the VoA site is in terms of who they are targetting with their website design/marketing. Maybe thats why the sales in america arent all too stellar.

I mean, I appreciate your enthusiasm, I'm just as enthusiastic about a 20-year-old econobox

Na, your worse, you try to compare a 20 year old econo box to modern vehicles.

 

[homeforsummer]

@ Forza2.0 - You have to understand that as an owner your points and judgement are coloured by your alliegance to the brand and a lot of what you say does look very much like blind fanboyism. I like SEAT as a brand, but the comments here from people who actually live and buy in America are perhaps more informed than your experiences with one car in the UK.

It only takes one look at your avatar to confirm you may not be the most impartial advisor in the thread...

 

[Tornado]

lol you guys need to look at the bigger picture.

We are the ones who are looking at the bigger picture. The integrity of VAGs North American sales relies mainly on the success of VoA. SEAT will do nothing but damage in that regard.

Plus didnt GM send over a series of different traditionally american marques to europe, namely caddie when GM is deeply in debt.

Apples and oranges. Cadillac being sold in Europe wouldn't hurt the sales of any GM make. VAG selling SEATs in America would do a lot of damage to VW sales by your own admittance.

Na, your worse, you try to compare a 20 year old econo box to modern vehicles.

Before you begin insulting the allegiances of others, I suggest you seriously sit down and look in a damned mirror.

Its like talking to a wall, same as it always has been. Give me proof that VAG wants to do something this stupid, Poverty, or shut it.

 

[forza2.0]

@ Forza2.0 - You have to understand that as an owner your points and judgement are coloured by your alliegance to the brand and a lot of what you say does look very much like blind fanboyism. I like SEAT as a brand, but the comments here from people who actually live and buy in America are perhaps more informed than your experiences with one car in the UK.

It only takes one look at your avatar to confirm you may not be the most impartial advisor in the thread...

My allegiance to SEAT though could very well be a allegiance to VAG in general.

People on here are saying SEAT wont come to america.
Im saying that there are reports that they are, and that there are strong indications to back this up.

That aside we are debating as to why SEAT will or will not come to america, with no regard to the reports.

I think my argument is just in that it (SEAT in the same markets as VW) seems to be working all around the world for SEAT, so america will be a obvious target. If they sell or not is sorta beside the point, and with the current fuel crisis american car needs are changing.

 

[Tornado]

My allegiance to SEAT though could very well be a allegiance to VAG in general.

Ya don't say.

People on here are saying SEAT wont come to america.
Im saying that there are reports that they are, and that there are strong indications to back this up.

Americans, who know far more about the American buying public and automotive market than you do, are telling you that it ain't gonna happen. We are giving you reasons why it won't happen based on how the market is for the largest piece of VAG in North America, and you are in turn simply repeating that "Reports say it is happening."
There are no indications of it happening, and I've seen no reports. The only indication anyone on GTP has had is the thread you made about it with no source or supporting reasoning. The fact that VAG is expanding SEAT worldwide is great, and wholly meaningless when the American market is taken into consideration.

 

[Casio]

I think SEAT in Australia is a good example of why it isn't a good idea. Was launched in 1996 when VW were still struggling for sales. Lasted all of 3 years before they packed up and left.

 

[YSSMAN]

They *could* sell a single model through VW dealers just to see what would happen, but given that there hasn't been any discussion... at all... in American automotive magazines, on websites, or hell even within the VW dealer network, its one more thing to add to nevergonnahappen.com.

No matter how much I love VW, I'm not about to jump off that wagon because its cheaper. Its a well known fact that I have a very high distaste for Audi. I'm not a huge fan of Bugatti. Skoda and SEAT are just the "other brands" out there. Really, to me, its usually just VW and Bentley. What a surprise...

I haven't heard anything, and I mean ANYTHING, from my VW friends. Nothing. Its not going to happen. Nor would they ever think it to be a good idea to even consider it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Buyer A wants a cheap, fast, small car that looks great, is well built and handles superbly.

Bias? Never!

The Ibiza does everything the mini does, but for cheaper.

Except it's an unknown quantity here. Everybody knows the Mini badge. That and I highly doubt the new-gen Ibiza will have the dynamic capabilities of the Mini, since the last one wasn't close. I'm sure you'll argue it'll be class-leader as always, though.

FIAT another company who doenst exactly have money to throw around.

Uh... what? Are you reading 3 year old papers? Fiat has been making tidy profits for a while now. Huge, successful turnaround.

There are no indications of it happening, and I've seen no reports. The only indication anyone on GTP has had is the thread you made about it with no source or supporting reasoning.

You mention this like it's a new thing? Heh.

 

[GT Pro]

Wow, that front end is ugly. But function over form I guess.

 

[Metar]

So, instead of discussing the car itself, or the anticipated success or lack of it in the markets where it will definitely be sold, it's an argument about how great VAG, specifically SEAT, are, and about why Volkswagen of America is stupid for not bringing SEAT to the US?

On the subject, the car looks... bland? Just looks like some sort of Mazda2 to me, with slightly stretched headlights.

My allegiance to SEAT though could very well be a allegiance to VAG in general.

...except you insist that SEAT is superior to all other VAG cars, and every other car in general.

If they sell or not is sorta beside the point, and with the current fuel crisis american car needs are changing.

Yes, but if they already have a dirt-cheap car that would accept VAG's smaller engines, why would they add another one to steal sales?

Wow, that front end is ugly. But function over form I guess.

What form? It's just a regular design...

 

[Leonidae]

^ indeed. in-house competition isn't necessarily good. There's already Audi for higher mid-class and upper echelong, whereas VW itself takes care of lower end, cheaper lineup..

 

[forza2.0]

I think SEAT in Australia is a good example of why it isn't a good idea. Was launched in 1996 when VW were still struggling for sales. Lasted all of 3 years before they packed up and left.

they didnt have any good cars back then or anything exciting

Everybody knows the Mini badge. That and I highly doubt the new-gen Ibiza will have the dynamic capabilities of the Mini, since the last one wasn't close.

Well if you want to compare a pretty new chassis to a old one what do you expect. The standard shopping trolley versions of the new ibiza are getting praise big time on handling dynamics and feel. Auto Motor Und Sport have given the run of the mill version 4 out of 5 stars. The aged 1.9 TDI being what let it down, so things look bright for the sporty versions with the sportier setups.

Uh... what? Are you reading 3 year old papers? Fiat has been making tidy profits for a while now. Huge, successful turnaround.

Wow 3 years, and how long has VAG been making year on year record breaking profits?

There are no indications of it happening, and I've seen no reports. The only indication anyone on GTP has had is the thread you made about it with no source or supporting reasoning.

Really. So explain how wikipedia says SEAT is looking to expanding into america?

They *could* sell a single model through VW dealers just to see what would happen, but given that there hasn't been any discussion... at all... in American automotive magazines, on websites, or hell even within the VW dealer network,

Dealer networks are always the last to know anything and and it has been mentioned in british car mags and wikipedia. Like I said its hard to find the articles due to SEAT googling searches bringing up unwanted information.

why Volkswagen of America is stupid for not bringing SEAT to the US?

Woah what makes you guys think that VoA are the ones who get to make the decision as to whether SEAT come sover or not. VoA has absolutely no say in it what so ever. They can protest about it but ultimately the decision as to if and when SEAT comes to america will happen in germany.


Looking at the german top best selling vehicles, VW and SEAT appear to be co habiting very well infact with both selling high numbers.

 

[Leonidae]

perhaps 1 out of 6 billion people on earth edited it? you know, wikipedia can be edited by anyone, anytime, anywhere. 💡

 

[Scaff]

That aside we are debating as to why SEAT will or will not come to america, with no regard to the reports.

Its rather strange that the last time SEAT's chairman spoke on expanding into new markets that North America was not mentioned at all...

BARCELONA, March 27 (Reuters) - Seat, the Spanish unit of Volkswagen, said on Thursday it expected to increase its sales this year, and profits by a faster rate as it cuts costs and improves production efficiency.

"In 2008 we are expecting positive growth in sales, a bigger growth for turnover and a still larger rise in profits," Chief Executive Erich Schmitt told a news conference.

Seat, long a headache for the German automaker, erased its operating losses in 2007, a year ahead of schedule.

Analysts are watching to see whether it will finally contribute to sustained earnings for the parent group.

It posted an operating profit of 8 million euros ($12.6 million) last year after a loss of 159 million in 2006.

While Seat suffered from an industry-wide decline in Spain and Germany last year, it rode an expansion in emerging Eastern European markets to post a 0.4 percent rise in total sales to 431,000 cars.

Schmitt said he expected that trend to continue, while demand would also be fuelled by the launch of new products, including a subcompact this year and a mid-sized sedan in 2009.

For years, Seat had been a black sheep in the Volkswagen familiy due to uninspiring sales, slow restructuring and rising costs, especially compared with Skoda, a former Czechoslovakian brand that has provided huge dividends for Volkswagen.

Schmitt declined to discuss Seat's positioning versus Skoda's -- both target lower-income consumers -- and stressed the Spanish brand had the full backing of the Volkswagen group, which first took a majority stake in 1986.

"We know what we're doing. Seat's position in the group is being discussed in a positive way, and if we can be competitive against Toyota and others, we can be as successful as Skoda," he said.

"We have every reason to look optimistically for the future."


DOUBLE SALES The maker of the Ibiza compact car and Toledo saloon has a lofty goal of nearly doubling sales to 800,000 in 2018 by entering eight new segments including minivans and station wagons, and selling a brand image of sportiness, craftsmanship and design-consciousness.

Schmitt said bringing production at its Martorell factory in Barcelona to full capacity of 550,000-600,000 units a year was a main priority, adding that with additional investment capacity could be raised further. Martorell made 398,700 cars in 2007.

But with its short-term goal of expanding in Latin America, Seat is also looking into using capacity at one of Volkswagen's factories in the region, Schmitt said. A decision would likely come by the middle of the year, another executive said.

Seat's sales in the region are currently limited mainly to Mexico, which does not impose 35 percent import duties on cars shipped from Europe like much of the rest of Latin America.

"It's fair to say that in order to expand in the region, we'll need local production," said Berthold Krueger, executive vice president of sales and marketing.

Schmitt said the brand was also discussing a possible entry into the promising Chinese market with Volkswagen's local partners, with another meeting scheduled in China next week.

"We have not foreseen production in China, but if we do this the volumes would be outside of the 800,000 vehicles we project for 2018," he said.

Now what was discussed here was both short and long term plans, with a number of markets mentioned, including Latin America, Mexico and China. However no mention of North America at all. which would make far more sense that trying to start from scratch in the very mature US market.

I'm sorry to say that without a direct link to some from SEAT actually saying that they are going into North America then this is pure speculation.

Wow 3 years, and how long has VAG been making year on year record breaking profits?

Fiat Automotive are not directly compariable in this case to VAG, VAG are a parent company so you would have to compare FIAT Group to them (who have made profits from a wide range of industries for decades). No you would have to compare Fiat Automotive to SEAT themselves to make a fair comparison, and as you can see from the article above they have only managed to post an opertional profit in the last year.

Please compare like for like.

Scaff

 

[Metar]

Dealer networks are always the last to know anything and and it has been mentioned in british car mags and wikipedia. Like I said its hard to find the articles due to SEAT googling searches bringing up unwanted information.

I could edit the site right now, and add that the Ibiza design was inspired by vomit and banana-peels, and that Daihatsu Charades are sportier: Whatever dealers know is guaranteed to be more accurate than Wikipedia.

Looking at the german top best selling vehicles, VW and SEAT appear to be co habiting very well infact with both selling high numbers.

It's Ger-bleedin'-many, where VWs are the local brand of cheap cars - they're bound to sell well, just like PSA and Renault in France, or FIATs in Italy. Who are you to tell what the market looks like in the US? As those who do live there said - VW's share in the market is already small, so why endanger it even further?

The VAG inner competition works in some places, in others it doesn't. Also, if what you want is a bargain VAG car, SEAT's on the silly side - Skoda is even cheaper. And slightly less silly-looking. So they may not have the FR models, but you're the one who pulled the standard models into the discussion.

I'm less familiar with the current situation in Germany, but over here, the internal competition left Audi completely forgotten - a few nouveau riche buy them - while Skodas (previously SEATs) became common (relatively, at least, for a brand that's above the leasing price-range).

perhaps 1 out of 6 billion people on earth edited it? you know, wikipedia can be edited by anyone, anytime, anywhere. 💡

Probably himself, judging by how much he defends that "evidence".

 

[Casio]

they didnt have any good cars back then or anything exciting

OUCH!

That hurts.

 

[Tornado]

they didnt have any good cars back then or anything exciting

And that makes a difference...how? If people are having problems with VWs in America, why would selling different versions of VWs (better handling, crappier interiors, same problems) under a different brand fix that?

Wow 3 years, and how long has VAG been making year on year record breaking profits?

And how long has VoA been struggling in the U.S.? Since they started making the Phaeton? That sounds about right.

Really. So explain how wikipedia says SEAT is looking to expanding into america?

Wikipedia used to say that Dik Diks had a natural predator in the form of Psyducks.

Woah what makes you guys think that VoA are the ones who get to make the decision as to whether SEAT come sover or not. VoA has absolutely no say in it what so ever.

You don't even know how the company you worship works, do you? Being one of the largest arms of the company gives you a bit of clout if you don't want your sales numbers to start being stolen by some upstart brand when said sales numbers are already low.

Looking at the german top best selling vehicles, VW and SEAT appear to be co habiting very well infact with both selling high numbers.

I'm looking at the American top selling vehicles, and I don't expect the Ford F-150 to take off in France.

 

[Jondot]

Anyway, aside from the fact that forza2.0 is probably being paid per word by SEAT... I don't like it. Better than the non-sporty models I suppose, but still not my cup of tea. Reminds me of a Proton Satria. Still prettier than a Polo or a Fabia though.

 

[forza2.0]

Look YSSMAN an american wants SEAT in the US.

It would be SO EASY to launch Seat here. Geez, I would trade in my car tomorrow for a Leon Cupra. And the Ibiza would be MUCH preferable to the Golf.

And look another person agrees with my viewpoint

Volkswagen could indeed launch both Seat AND Skoda in the US, using their current dealerships and selling all 3 brands side by side but nooooooo, Volkswagen does not want the competition even from within their own group. Seat and Skoda are absolute no brainer for the US

If they really want to triple their sales in NA (as they've repeatedly indicated) launching at least one of those brands would be a vital step.

All three of those brands have established their respective niches in Europe (less so Seat, I guess) but there would be too much overlap in the NA market. I'd love a dedicated Seat line for NA, and Skodas (especially the quirky Superb and the Roomster) rebadged as VWs.

http://www.carspyshots.net/showthread.php?t=15247&page=9

 

[Metar]

Is he you? Or your brother?

 

[Scaff]

Look YSSMAN an american wants SEAT in the US.
And look another person agrees with my viewpoint

One person does not make a market, nor does it still make NA a sensible potential market for SEAT.

They have more than enough to do with their existing marques in that market.

As SEAT themselves have said (and I have quoted) Latin America and emerging markets such as China and Russia make far more sense that trying to gain a foothold in one of the most mature and competitive markets around.


Regards

Scaff

 

[YSSMAN]

Quite right... Two people in North America does not constitute a market. Most VW fans are just that... VW fans. Consequently, they wouldn't "trade down" if their life depended on it. Can't fault your logic for looking for evidence, but please, give it a rest. When you live in VW-friendly Michigan, you get a good sense for things that are on people's radar. SEAT isn't it for these VW fans...