Senna vs. Prost - Formula E Forza 6 eSport event

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mrPetros


Formula E and eSports go like bread and butter, says Formula E CEO Alejandro Agag
and he's taking the formula E teams to an open Forza 6 eSport event in London to prove it.

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http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/...ce-fans-in-the-next-generation-of-gaming.aspx

Detailed info next week, but if you are in the broader London area maybe this be worth your time.

( HINT: Get practicing and put in the laps around Prague, Rio, Long Beach and the Top Gear track. )

http://fiaformulae.com/en/raceoff.aspx
 


Got around to watching the final. Annoyed I never went to the event as it looked very winnable.

Funny to watch though, everyone struggling to keep control of the Formula E car. Sort of drifting around the corners, so that's how they meant to drive...
 
I didnt know what to expect and was still a bit disappointed.

They are trying to make an event or make *something* of a motorsport that the FIA are trying to make *something*.

So it has the double whammy of Formula E not being take seriously and they're trying to make an 'e-sport' of a fairly marginal form of motorsport.

Looked a bit mario kart slash 'daytona usa' smash and bash in a few places.

It should possibly have been a tighter edited 'one hour' event rather than dragging it out to 90mins plus.
 


Got around to watching the final. Annoyed I never went to the event as it looked very winnable.

Funny to watch though, everyone struggling to keep control of the Formula E car. Sort of drifting around the corners, so that's how they meant to drive...


Simulation Steering was forced on for the final, which caught out pretty much everyone (Bruno told me post-event that his car was never that twitchy when practicing).

Also, may as well share my write-up here as well, gimme a moment to go find it.
 
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Pre-Event:

The Race-Off was announced just over a week ago, with details on the event format being posted a few days later. Having heard about some of the issues with Forza events in the United States I was worried that things would be too restrictive. Fortunately, after asking Gfinity for some info things seemed pretty positive. We could choose between a controller or wheel, could change some of the assists and adjust our controller layout and deadzone settings. We'd also have multiple attempts to better our laptimes.

Going into the event I knew that we'd be using stock Formula E cars around Long Beach East so I started hotlapping and setting some times. HCR Motorhead helped out by setting a Rivals time so that I had a second ghost to race against and by the end of it my ultimate pace (54.8) was pretty close to his. Here is footage from one of my practice runs.

Through my 50 or so laps of practice I found a number of quirks with both the car and the track that I was expecting a many competitors to struggle with. As with most electric cars the Formula Es have notable off-throttle oversteer, most drivers would struggle with that through Turn 4 in particular. The way I dealt with it was to partially stay on the throttle when slowing down, releasing the throttle a bit more whenever I needed a more aggressive turn-in.

As for Long Beach, the kerbs would likely catch out a lot of players, along with the walled-in nature of a street circuit. Through Turn 1, you could go over the rumble strip on pit exit and gain a tighter entry. This was a 50/50 call however as hitting it at the wrong angle would dirty your lap. Through Turn 2 you could get a better exit by clipping the wall on the inside but if you make the wrong approach the bumps would throw you into the tyre barrier. The Turn 5 hairpin was also tricky, but by exploiting the car's off-throttle oversteer it was possible to tighten the turning radius and get a better exit.

Before heading into London on Saturday morning I did a few more laps and maxed out my Formula E affinity:

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Time-Trials:

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I was on-site for the start of the Time Trials and one of the first to set a laptime. I decided to play it safe for the first run and set a 55.7 which was quickest for the first half hour or so. A second run brought that down to a 55.3 after which I bumped into Zak (ScholesySlash46). We're both racers and painters and have raced against each other over the past few weeks, but funnily enough neither of us spoke about this event to each other and knew the other was attending. We traded tips and talked Forza for a bit before doing another run each, me with a 55.1 and him a 55.0, half a tenth quicker.

With about 30 minutes to go I felt confident enough of making the playoffs so I sat back and watched everybody else set their laptimes, taking note of how they took corners, where they'd be weak during races etc. Time Trials then ended and the live broadcast began, myself and Zak were the quickest drivers overall.

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Semi-Finals:

I was going to be in the second Semi-Final, which gave me some time to think about how to approach the first lap while also watching how the players in the first race got on. The dynamic of the event had changed now, going from solitary time trials to a full field of cars battling on-track. Given that I race in Hoppers every night (and can navigate the inevitable Turn 1 craziness with relative ease) I felt I had an edge in this part of the competition.

Zak's race started with a heavy crash on Turn 1 taking out the majority of the field but fortunately for him he emerged in 2nd place before stealing the win at the end. The notable performance of the race was Jann Mardenborough's comeback drive after some rough opening laps. You could clearly tell that as a professional racing driver he was calm under pressure and methodically worked his way into a podium position.

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Next up was my Semi-Final, which you can watch here. I started on the front row, took the outside on Turn 1 and battled for the the lead before passing through Turn 3. From there it was a comfortable victory.


Final:

Things would get interesting now as Bruno Senna and Nico Prost would join Jann, giving us a final grid of 3 professional race drivers and 5 Forza players. We'd switch to Rio (Full, Reverse) for this event but there was also one more significant change to come: players were forced to use Simulation Steering, which would be tricky around Rio.

The final can be seen here, Zak started on pole and I was in 3rd. Going into Turn 1 I was cautious and focused on avoiding any potential incidents. The field tightened up however and a few cars got past, but I made a few spots back right away through the Esses. Zak had a clean run up front and started to pull away while I was still scrapping in traffic.

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Going through the Mountain section I lined up a pass for 2nd, but contact form the other driver forced me into the wall. At that moment victory was out of the question so I focused instead on securing 2nd, which I took towards the end of Lap 1. With a clear track ahead I tried to make inroads on Zak's lead but the time difference wasn't big enough to make an impact. My only hope was that he'd spin a few times due to Simulation Steering on a bumpy circuit but it was also catching me out through the Mountain section. In the end we both made a similar number of errors and the gap stabilised; he took the win and I finished 2nd, with Jann Mardenborough having another comeback drive to take 3rd.

Congrats to Zak on the win, well earned. If I'm going to lose to anyone I'm glad it's the person I race against every week. After the race we had a casual chat with Senna and Mardenborough, who both enjoyed the event quite a bit. We all relayed our experience of driving these cars and Jann spoke a bit about what driving the GT-R LM NISMO at Le Mans.

Overall I quite enjoyed the event, it was well run and I hope to see more of this in the future. Many thanks to Formula E and Gfinity for putting it together, I aim to do one better next time ;)
 
Watching this right now on BT Sports, both Senna & Prost and even the Forza fan gamers were really struggling keeping the cars on track with them constantly spinning out and constantly crashing into the barriers. I've often thought Forza physics were a bit on the ice skatey side and watching this on BT Sports kinda confirms it.

Also most of the gamers competing had to have the driving line on and damage turned off :lol: Pretty terrible show tbh.
 
Watching this right now on BT Sports, both Senna & Prost and even the Forza fan gamers were really struggling keeping the cars on track with them constantly spinning out and constantly crashing into the barriers. I've often thought Forza physics were a bit on the ice skatey side and watching this on BT Sports kinda confirms it.

Also most of the gamers competing had to have the driving line on and damage turned off :lol: Pretty terrible show tbh.
Wasn't Sim steering forced on, on the last round? I'm sure that is going to mess with a lot of people. However, Bad drivers being bad drivers doesn't necessarily confirm anything.
 
Wasn't Sim steering forced on, on the last round? I'm sure that is going to mess with a lot of people. However, Bad drivers being bad drivers doesn't necessarily confirm anything.
They were all using wheels so i would of thought sim steering would of been on from the start surly?

Senna n Prost bad drivers? Those guys are pro's yet they got leathered by gamers. Something has been severely off with Forza for a few years now.
 
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They were all using wheels so i would of thought sim steering would of been on from the start surly?
The aid's that are on controllers that simulation removes, are already removed when using a wheel. Sim just makes steering hypersensitive. So it can be very bothersome, especially if not one time it has been used by them in the past.

Senna n Prost bad drivers? Those guys are pro's yet they got leathered by gamers. Something has been severely off with Forza for a few years now.
Exactly my point. They may have the fundamentals down and loads of real world experience, but just jumping into a game expecting to do well, especially with simulation steering off the bat, is just leading for undesirable results. Still, this iceskate feeling you talk about, I have not got it one bit, unless I produce it myself with user error, or just doing it intentionally.
 
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Senna n Prost bad drivers? Those guys are pro's yet they got leathered by gamers. Something has been severely off with Forza for a few years now.

My father had been driving for 20 years when GT1 came out. Despite that, after a month of us having the game, I would destroy him in two player battles.

If you expect pro drivers to be be able to jump in and immediately mix it up with the folks that occupy the tops of leaderboards – or, more laughably, suggest this on its own is a reflection on the physics – you're looking at it all wrong.
 
My father had been driving for 20 years when GT1 came out. Despite that, after a month of us having the game, I would destroy him in two player battles.

If you expect pro drivers to be be able to jump in and immediately mix it up with the folks that occupy the tops of leaderboards – or, more laughably, suggest this on its own is a reflection on the physics – you're looking at it all wrong.
Your father? Hardly Senna or Prost is he (just guessing right enough?) Was he on a control pad? I dont fancy any old guys picking up a pad for the first time and being able to compete with gamers using a pad if he was not using a pad for GT1 then wheels and pedal sets have progressed very much since then meaning the gap between pad and wheel will be far less.

However these proper race drivers using a wheel and pedal set using the same car they are in nearly everyday i wouldnt be expecting them be unable to control those cars in game. I'd put money on them being able to jump right into AC or PCars and play the game without spinning on their first few goes or not to be constantly hitting barriers.

Who the hell said anything about top of the leaderboards where on earth did you just pull that from? Please dont tell me the players are top of the leaderboard Forza players? They couldnt stop spinning and crashing either and they needed the driving line on :lol:

I do think you underestimate how good these drivers (Prost & Senna) actually are.
 
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Myself and Zak are capable of hitting Top 100s, as was one of the guys in the Semi Final who got eliminated. I race with all assists off (Controller, Normal Steering) whereas I believe Zak uses the Braking Line (in addition). If you want to see me racing outside of Formula E here's a quick video:



As mentioned previously, we were forced to use Sim Steering for the final, on Rio (when all of the Trials and Semi-Finals were on Long Beach East). Anybody that's raced online knows how much of a bottleneck Rio is at the best of times, and when you put people who have less than a week's experience (not only the pro drivers, but a number of the regular competitors don't play Forza regularly) on a track like that in cars that have notable off-throttle oversteer, with Sim Steering forced on, there are going to be crashes.

Bruno mentioned that he was hitting low 56s in practice, which would have been 5th if he was a regular contestant. Mardenborough's clearly got gaming background as a GT Academy winner (and it shows when you see him in both races). Myself and Zak play Forza every night. So that's at least half of the final grid that's competent and quick.

Prost and Senna used wheels for the final but who knows how they were configured. Mardenborough used a controller.
 
Simulation Steering was forced on for the final, which caught out pretty much everyone (Bruno told me post-event that his car was never that twitchy when practicing).

Also, may as well share my write-up here as well, gimme a moment to go find it.
Can imagine it being quite tricky, I tend to use Simulation so more annoyed with myself for not going and also it being on BT Sport and being able to talk to the drivers. I thought there would be only 2 hot laps allowed so was hesistant on booking before forgetting about it but was going to go for the drivers anyway.

Surprised Daveyskills didn't try this event, would have thought a Forza alien would have come and attempted this event given Forza fuel event was reasonably competitive. Anyway out of interest, how far off was your rivals time compared to top times when practicing with the Formula E car, can't see video you linked to so difficult to judge how fast it might be and don't have the the game. Did you try the Forza fuel time trial in the demo?

I haven't driven much in Forza games but would have been interesting to see how would I have done compared to you guys, never know now and I guess if there is a next time, it will be much more competitive so a golden opportunity missed and it also being the first one. :banghead:

Comparing say rivals video against yours, I would have probably stood a chance of doing really well even with very limited experience as I remember seeing times to get into semi-finals wasn't very competitive.

 
@Saidur_Ali

Just a quick note on the comparison video. The Lotus E23 has notably more torque than the E21, and I wasn't using Traction Control. If I turned on TCS I could have been 5-6 seconds faster based on what I've done at other circuits.

In any case, the Formula E event had about 30 competitors in the Time Trials; anybody that regularly plays Forza would have easily made their way into the Top 16. I don't doubt your pace though, highest position I've ever gotten on any leaderboard in Forza Motorsport 6 is something in the 40s.

I am sure the big-name drivers would have entered had they known about the event more in advance. It was announced on twitter a week before taking place and shared on Forza 6's Xbox feed a few days later. Unless you live in London or can hop on a train you wouldn't have been able to compete on such short notice.
 
I am sure the big-name drivers would have entered had they known about the event more in advance. It was announced on twitter a week before taking place and shared on Forza 6's Xbox feed a few days later. Unless you live in London or can hop on a train you wouldn't have been able to compete on such short notice.

Correct! I would have been there had I known more in advance. But to travel down to London, it wouldn't have just been travel costs on a train, but a hotel room for a night. Such a shame, as it looked like a fun time.
 
@Saidur_Ali

Just a quick note on the comparison video. The Lotus E23 has notably more torque than the E21, and I wasn't using Traction Control. If I turned on TCS I could have been 5-6 seconds faster based on what I've done at other circuits.

In any case, the Formula E event had about 30 competitors in the Time Trials; anybody that regularly plays Forza would have easily made their way into the Top 16. I don't doubt your pace though, highest position I've ever gotten on any leaderboard in Forza Motorsport 6 is something in the 40s.

I am sure the big-name drivers would have entered had they known about the event more in advance. It was announced on twitter a week before taking place and shared on Forza 6's Xbox feed a few days later. Unless you live in London or can hop on a train you wouldn't have been able to compete on such short notice.
I think I did that lap in the first few days after I got the game and didn't play much afterwards as I didn't like how cars handled in the game. I don't really play games much with a pad so with limited experience I was surprised to be challenging top 10, think I would need a wheel to challenge the top drivers. Video was sort of to demonstrate the racing line a bit too, using more of track and that I would probably be reasonably competitive. Only video I got with that kind of car is on Assetto Corsa with no driving aids, think fastest time on YouTube:


Rare to get such events as generally eSport events are usually super competitive where even if you are one of the best in the game, you still have to put a lot of effort into it to be competitive. This was quite a big event with sort of casual entry requirements which I don't think happens often.

I heard about the event the same day it was announced and also did end up going to London the day on the event so quite frustrating I didn't realise the event was on before it was too late to do anything about it. Knowing my luck, even though it sounds like the event would have suited me quite a bit, I would likely have lost but I wanted to go there to mainly see the drivers and participate for the fun of it. Anyway hopefully there is more of these kind of events, might be only racing game event that's happened at the Gfinity arena so far.
 
Myself and Zak are capable of hitting Top 100s, as was one of the guys in the Semi Final who got eliminated. I race with all assists off (Controller, Normal Steering) whereas I believe Zak uses the Braking Line (in addition). If you want to see me racing outside of Formula E here's a quick video:



As mentioned previously, we were forced to use Sim Steering for the final, on Rio (when all of the Trials and Semi-Finals were on Long Beach East). Anybody that's raced online knows how much of a bottleneck Rio is at the best of times, and when you put people who have less than a week's experience (not only the pro drivers, but a number of the regular competitors don't play Forza regularly) on a track like that in cars that have notable off-throttle oversteer, with Sim Steering forced on, there are going to be crashes.

Bruno mentioned that he was hitting low 56s in practice, which would have been 5th if he was a regular contestant. Mardenborough's clearly got gaming background as a GT Academy winner (and it shows when you see him in both races). Myself and Zak play Forza every night. So that's at least half of the final grid that's competent and quick.

Prost and Senna used wheels for the final but who knows how they were configured. Mardenborough used a controller.


Half the competitors seemed to use the driving/braking line. You would think with it being a competition and on BT Sports the last thing they'd want is people using control pads, braking lines and damage off. Why were you's using pads instead of wheels/pedals?
 
Most of the fastest players use controllers.
Isnt that down to T10 using botched psychics to please control pad users? I was one until i bought a t300 and g29...Now i feel as if T10 just do their own thing for pad users...Forza just does not feel right using a pad and pedals...hence why most are quicker with your control pad.
 
Isnt that down to T10 using botched psychics to please control pad users? I was one until i bought a t300 and g29...Now i feel as if T10 just do their own thing for pad users...Forza just does not feel right using a pad and pedals...hence why most are quicker with your control pad.
Well that wasnt surprising from you, given what else you've said.
 
Isnt that down to T10 using botched psychics to please control pad users? I was one until i bought a t300 and g29...Now i feel as if T10 just do their own thing for pad users...Forza just does not feel right using a pad and pedals...hence why most are quicker with your control pad
Most people who play Forza use the pad, so it makes sense that the physics would suit that
 
Most people who play Forza use the pad, so it makes sense that the physics would suit that
I'd put money on most people playing PCars use the pad also (PS4 and Xbone have by far the biggest sales figures for the game) And when AC hits consoles in April it too will have pads being the biggest users i dont think physics should be dumbed down because the majority use pads, Get it right on the wheel's first then attempt making it playable on control pads.
 
I'd put money on most people playing PCars use the pad also (PS4 and Xbone have by far the biggest sales figures for the game) And when AC hits consoles in April it too will have pads being the biggest users i dont think physics should be dumbed down because the majority use pads, Get it right on the wheel's first then attempt making it playable on control pads
Like it or not, you've hit the nail on the head

Most console users use the pad. If game devs make their games unsuitable or overly difficult to play with a pad, they alienate the bulk of potential sales

Commercially that would be stupid. Game devs can be weird but I don't think they're stupid

Ftr, I'm looking forward to AC for my X1 :cool:
 
Most console users use the pad. If game devs make their games unsuitable or overly difficult to play with a pad, they alienate the bulk of potential sales

I'll be honest here, I play Forza with both a wheel and a controller. Hell, I just ran 30 laps of the bounty hunter rival with a pad. And the way I drive does not change between the input devices, well baring the physical movements I make. But I take the corners the same, accelerate the same, and brake the same. There is no real difference for me in this regard. I also use a wheel with Pcars and Assetto corsa (plus countless other racing games), and in all honesty, Forza is not too far off from Assetto (and other sims) with a wheel. The only thing that lets a wheel down in Forza, is T10's poor attempt at Force Feedback, and that is it. I have said this countless times now, but honestly, I drive exactly the same in both Forza and Assetto. I drive the same in Forza and iRacing, and the same in Rfactor 1 and 2, and even in RRRE. If Forza was so far off in the physics department, then I would have to change the way I drive the cars in it.

The type of controller used does not mean a change in physics in the game, it is just a device used for the end user to make an input to control the cars. And that is it. The physics stay the same regardless, and are seperate from the individual controller input schemes. Forza's physics, in comparison to other simulation based racing games, really are not that bad. I am not saying the physics are perfect, because no commercially available racing game is. Just that they are not that back when compared to other simulation based racing games.

@PJTierney As for that formula E car, was it stock or upgraded? Because I took it out around Long Beach full after seeing those videos, and I could barely get the thing to break traction.
 
The Formula E cars were stock, just as they are for this week's League. On-throttle they're super easy to drive, but some drivers will struggle to deal with off-throttle oversteer. They're good for racing though; low straightline speed and plenty of grip means that races are generally very close.
 
Just came across your write PJ. Nice one ;O) Was a great event considering the late random nature of the sign ups with a really good venue and fantastic atmosphere. My write of taking part here:

https://sway.com/5oICBQKeGwPPyXkg

Nice write-up. :)

Faired very well in semi final race but decided to slow at the end of lap 5 from the lead as Prost and Senna needed to two wheels for the final. I'm just pumped Formula E decided to do this and Gfinity pulled it off ;O) Thanks very much for an awesome event all.

Also, mystery solved it seems,; myself and Zak were wondering how you blew such a huge lead in your semi-final.
 
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