Serious limitations of the PP system?

  • Thread starter Thread starter panjandrum
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PP was brought over from Prologue where you couldn't upgrade the cars so it worked well. Hopefully PD will just add a certain number of PP for each part you add to your car eg racing suspension adds 5 points, triple clutch adds 2 points etc to kind of balance it out.
 
I wasn't a believer in PP at first but last night I was in a Nurburgring room I am in a lot thats usually set at a 500 hp/1100 kg weight limit. We would occasionally have close races, but last night the room was set to 633pp EVERY race was pretty close. Not only that some people showed up with new cool cars that didn't fit within the old limit, and also didn't automatically kill us.

However what would everyone say a range is that the cars are basically equal. A difference of 10pp? 20? Or do they really need to match exactly.
 
mark_twigo
just set weight limit and bhp and away u go.
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The problem there is that it allows loopholes. With hp and weight restrictions, there is always the chace that someone brings in a car that meets the rules, but is far superior to the cars intended to be in the race.

The best example is low hp races. Sub 300 hp compact cars fall into the same class as GT300 cars and Touring Cars, that's obviously not fair. PP makes it so that the race cars can't enter a compact car race.

There are also road cars like the R390 and ZZII that pretty much break hp/weight.
 
What ara said.

The PP works great. Of course you can take an example like an oval where some street cars could beat an F1 car because downforce can work against you.

Just get online and race. You will see it works.

Tommy_861
However what would everyone say a range is that the cars are basically equal. A difference of 10pp? 20? Or do they really need to match exactly.
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Depends on the track I'd say. Last night I was in a stock car race using comfort tyres. There were a range of cars to chose from with about 40pp between them. The evo X was the lowest. I won using it by about 9 seconds at trial mountain simply because the other drivers could not push because of the low grip. However go to high speed ring and I would have been smashed.
 
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The way PPs are done online is a bit dumb. If you use the recommended cars (not your own) and change tires you will just have to check if the game lets you join the race (are you under or over the limit). It is also very sad the PP system isn't used for seasonal events.

I think the user interface should have been updated for the pp to work better but pd being what they are everything needs to be clumsy and unintuitive. If you change tires in the setup the PP doesn't change but in reality it does... for example.

Plus choosing car for online is still a bit of hit and miss because the menu can only show either pp, power or weight. Why an earth aren't those three stats shown together???
 
Welshy's Words of Wisdom:

Nothing is ever perfect. You're lieing to yourself if you think so anyway.
 
PP is not perfect, but I found it to work quite well and gave me a lot of options (along with balast) that I didn't have a while ago... just like before PP someone always pulled out some ridiculously tuned car that met the hp/weight requirements and destroyed everyone else, I am sure it can till happen with pp, but I think it opens a lot more doors than it causes problems. At least that's what I see so far...

The only problem I have with PP is that it now makes setting up races VERY time consuming... combined with no multi tune saves and fully adjustable gearboxes it easily takes mme 5 minutes to dial in a car and even then I may decide that car ultimately isn't going to work after all... then more time to dial in another choice...

I was in a lobby of 4 last night and it took regularly over 5 minutes to start a race and you could see everyone was constantly in and out of the tune area.
 
ara
I'm not sure I understand these criticisms of the PP system where people are showing that you can get faster lap times with cars with lower PP and then complaining about its accuracy.

Are you guys expecting a perfect metric where higher PP cars will always get better lap times than lower PP cars? Doesn't it make sense that drivers can actually be consistently faster with lower-performance cars in some situations and that the PP cannot ever factor your driving ability and preferences? A given setup can be very well suited to one driver and yet a different driver may not be able to use it nearly as well.

After a certain point it stops making sense to incorporate more and more factors into a performance metric anyway.

If you understand it as just a slightly more sophisticated kind of power/weight ratio, it is a superbly useful metric, especially since all we had before was HP and weight and you had to figure the ratio in your head.

And the kart is clearly an outlier, it lives in a performance envelope totally different from most all of the other cars, especially in terms of scale, I am not surprised the PP rating breaks down with it any more than I would expect it to be competitive with every car that shares its power/weight ratio.
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The thing is, PP doesn't take into consideration suspensions, transmissions, and drivetrains for one. Second, it doesn't take into consideration how hard a particular car is to handle. For example, my Cerbera Speed 12 has 1027 HP and weighs 1020 KG, and has tons of downforce. On paper, that car should kill just about everything. But around the ring, I get times much slower than some other cars I have because of how hard a time I have controlling the car.
 
I think now with PP system we all have the chance to create categories.. do you remember GT5p? 550pp 600pp 650pp 700pp It would be great if almost everyone who open a lobby keep to one of these, in this way people can tune their cars properly and tuners know what they need to achieve.
 
Guys does someone really know how this new future works? I tryed to search on the internet about it, but no artikel with a detailed description about this. How does it work, and what's the benefit about PP.
 
xNEVER-ONEx
The thing is, PP doesn't take into consideration suspensions, transmissions, and drivetrains for one. Second, it doesn't take into consideration how hard a particular car is to handle. For example, my Cerbera Speed 12 has 1027 HP and weighs 1020 KG, and has tons of downforce. On paper, that car should kill just about everything. But around the ring, I get times much slower than some other cars I have because of how hard a time I have controlling the car.
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Agree with you about suspension, tranny, and drivetrain - if that is not counted.... but.

No offense intended - but the PP is supposed to represent Performance Potential - not whether or not the driver can handle the setup. In your own post I pick up the feeling that you know the car should be faster, just keep at it!
 
Achillias
Guys does someone really know how this new future works? I tryed to search on the internet about it, but no artikel with a detailed description about this. How does it work, and what's the benefit about PP.
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In a few words it's a value that rappresent the performance of your car, this can be useful trying to get closer online races and you can also have a bigger garage of cars to choose from a particular race, because you can cut power or add weight to enter regulations. We are using it instead of hp/weight limitations
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I think now with PP system we all have the chance to create categories.. do you remember GT5p? 550pp 600pp 650pp 700pp It would be great if almost everyone who open a lobby keep to one of these, in this way people can tune their cars properly and tuners know what they need to achieve.
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Need tu up this ^
 
Is it just me or does the down force hardly effect the PP? It seems Street cars with Aero have the same PP has an RM/Race car. In races before I could keep up/beat race cars in weight/hp requirements, but with PPs its not even close.
 
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