Severe handling issues in Nations Cup/Manufacturers Series

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43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
Who else is experiencing horrific handling during the race? Please tell me I’m not the only one. I qualified 3rd. No handling issues with soft tyres and full tank of fuel. Had to brake and accelerate a bit different but still good handling.
Then the race. Now, I know soft tyres are normally good for 4 laps no matter how hard you push. They violently snapped out of their wear limit after 2 laps. YES!!! 2 laps. The car became an understeering and oversteering nightmare!!
On to hard tyres after all of 2-3 laps. Predictably I had to brake earlier and I was doing so. Every corner just became the worst understeering on entry. I lost so much time and places.
Now finally on to medium for the last 5 laps. 3 laps were marginally better than the hards. Still severe understeer.
Then on the last 2 laps. Understeer, oversteer, am I actually going to stay on the circuit?????
No matter how gently I tried to be with the controls. Same story. Almost undriveable, and I’m deadly serious when I say that.
Other racers towards the back were also having major handling issues in corners. We would catch each other on straights only to play “pretend your car is a snake every corner”
If I am doing something majorly wrong here, ie too hard on brakes then please tell me.
Hours of practice time and for what? Why bother.......
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
I was in a Porsche 911 RSR. Normally the handling is very good. I never get any bad handling issues on the daily races but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I don’t trust the seemingly intermittent bad handling issues on these official championship races. All cars seem to be ok then on the same lap multiple cars go off the circuit all of a sudden.

Actually, I forgot that I have had this happen once on a daily race. The exact same thing happened to me as it did today.
Car exiting corner, power down gradually, same as every other time.
Car then snaps into violent oversteer. No warning whatsoever.
I span and dropped down from 4th to 17th.
Race over.
I’ve pushed and pushed and pushed cars to the limit in practice sessions.
I’ve had cars oversteer a lot.
You can always counter steer out of it, even braking, then gradually accelerating away.
Absolutely nothing as violent a sudden change of handling as is the case here.
I would say maybe it is the fuel suddenly shifting in the tank, making the car unstable if driven too hard, but it happened in that daily race also, so it can’t be that.
The next time it happens I’m going to save the replay and keep watching it to see if I or anyone else can work out what’s going on?
Maybe my Thrustmaster T80 is too old and has accelerator fault once in a while.
 
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43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
I think you're experiencing the ABS glitch
Maybe? It’s shocking whatever it is. I did what we’re supposed to do to avoid this. I went out in every session. Practice, warm up and qualifying. Hoped doing that would stop any ABS issues. Maybe not?
 

Winnie847

Premium
1,030
United States
Austin, TX USA
Winnie847
It could be the ABS glitch, but it would probably be pretty obvious to you that you're only experiencing lockups under braking. If that is what's happening, toggle your ABS to OFF then back to DEFAULT. That should fix it.

If the ABS glitch is NOT the problem, then you're experiencing what every other player of the game experiences. If I had to guess what's happening I'd say you might be more used to Daily races A & B? With no tire wear? If so, you are likely just experiencing the different grip model combined with the effect of cold tires. Several updates ago the grip model changed, and some fundamentals of the car's handling changed, especially in regards to on-throttle understeer on corner exits. It was always there, but it's much more noticeable now than it was about a year ago. You simply have to adjust like we all have.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
And, when I spun, I managed to stop the car, facing backwards. I put it in first gear, then I tried to wheel spin around to carry on. I couldn’t. I was in first gear and the car would not accelerate. It pulled away with absolutely no engine revs. I had to drive on to the gravel in a big circle. Everything was absolutely screwed. If that isn’t an ABS or other software glitch then I don’t know what is? Absolutely appalling gameplay!
 

Winnie847

Premium
1,030
United States
Austin, TX USA
Winnie847
And, when I spun, I managed to stop the car, facing backwards. I put it in first gear, then I tried to wheel spin around to carry on. I couldn’t. I was in first gear and the car would not accelerate. It pulled away with absolutely no engine revs. I had to drive on to the gravel in a big circle. Everything was absolutely screwed. If that isn’t an ABS or other software glitch then I don’t know what is? Absolutely appalling gameplay!

I'm not really sure what you mean by "it pulled away with no engine revs." There are plenty of cars that bog down even in first gear when you are completely stopped and mash the throttle. It also makes a difference if you have TCS on/off. Without a clip of what you're experiencing there isn't much anyone can say except that it's probably operator error.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
I'm not really sure what you mean by "it pulled away with no engine revs." There are plenty of cars that bog down even in first gear when you are completely stopped and mash the throttle. It also makes a difference if you have TCS on/off. Without a clip of what you're experiencing there isn't much anyone can say except that it's probably operator error.
TCS was off. I’ll save a clip of the race the next time all this stuff happens. Maybe I made a series of errors? But it all seems too much. Please can you tell me how to share the whole clip of a race to YouTube? I can save replays to my library and I can share video clips of practice sessions but I seen to do it then forget how I did it. Do I need to be hitting the share button before it goes to the race ending screen? I’m so new to all this. Barely two months of playing. I didn’t even know I could practice on soft tyres. Spent hours practicing for races on the wrong tyres, thinking Bop automatically set what tyres you were allowed to use. I had a really great race until the car became mentally unhinged. Met the most subtle dive bomber ever. Pushed me into another car, then dive bombed up the inside, pushed me right out the way. I kept catching back up with them and re over taking. I pulled off some skilled overtakes in qualifying and during the race. Giving other drivers plenty of room in doing so. Shame I was suddenly robbed of a prime finish.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
That entirely depends on the tyre wear multiplier, and it was high at Lago Maggiore at 13x.
This was at Nürburgring GP today. I did ok at Lago Maggiore yesterday. From watching a race tutorial from one of the American racers on YouTube (before Europe gets to do the events) I thought I knew what to expect from softs. Was planning the pit in at 4 laps. These soft tyres were not even at half way on their wear bar when the incident occurred.

All the sliding led to abused and cooked tires and it sounds like you kept pushing on them. We've all done it. Back off for a corner or two to let them cool down again.
Maybe. I was jostling for position for the first few laps. Overtake one after another. Everything was going perfectly to plan. Maybe I should have left a bit in reserve. Cooked tyres then maybe.

Thanks
 
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Winnie847

Premium
1,030
United States
Austin, TX USA
Winnie847
This was at Nürburgring GP today. I did ok at Lago Maggiore yesterday. From watching a race tutorial from one of the American racers on YouTube (before Europe gets to do the events) I thought I knew what to expect from softs. Was planning the pit in at 4 laps. These soft tyres were not even at half way on their wear bar when the incident occurred.

just for reference, if the tires are half way red or even close to half way, you've lost A LOT of grip and should change them before then. Soft tires usually fall off too much when the tirewear reaches about 40-45%. Any tires for that matter.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
This was at Nürburgring GP today. I did ok at Lago Maggiore yesterday. From watching a race tutorial from one of the American racers on YouTube (before Europe gets to do the events) I thought I knew what to expect from softs. Was planning the pit in at 4 laps. These soft tyres were not even at half way on their wear bar when the incident occurred.


Maybe. I was jostling for position for the first few laps. Overtake one after another. Everything was going perfectly to plan. Maybe I should have left a bit in reserve. Cooked tyres then maybe.


Thanks
Ok. So I now understand that tyres can go off at 40%. Thanks for the information. My next question is, how do I gauge when the tyres are about to loose grip? There were instances where I could feel the tyres wearing gradually and then the incident where I had no warning and they violently snapped out of control. If they go off gradually I have more chance of knowing that something is wrong during gameplay. If they do it suddenly, can it be noticed that the tyres are showing red lines around the tyre indicators for a few corners before they let go? If they are going gradually, I can take it easier in the next few corners if I have issues the corner before. If, in daily races, with no tyre wear, and they go suddenly, what do I need to be looking for? Or is there nothing to be looking for and the sudden loss of control is a bug. Tyres on GT games from the past used to go off very gradually. The lines around the tyre indicators would start blue then go gradually red. Nothing like this latest, flick a switch, BANG! Your tyres have gone, now, try to control that oversteer, HA HA, you SPAN!!
 
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Winnie847

Premium
1,030
United States
Austin, TX USA
Winnie847
Ok. So I now understand that tyres can go off at 40%. Thanks for the information. My next question is, how do I gauge when the tyres are about to loose grip? There were instances where I could feel the tyres wearing gradually and then the incident where I had no warning and they violently snapped out of control. If they go off gradually I have more chance of knowing that something is wrong during gameplay. If they do it suddenly, can it be noticed that the tyres are showing red lines around the tyre indicators for a few corners before they let go? If they are going gradually, I can take it easier in the next few corners if I have issues the corner before. If, in daily races, with no tyre wear, and they go suddenly, what do I need to be looking for? Or is there nothing to be looking for and the sudden loss of control is a bug. Tyres on GT games from the past used to go off very gradually. The lines around the tyre indicators would start blue then go gradually red. Nothing like this latest, flick a switch, BANG! Your tyres have gone, now, try to control that oversteer, HA HA, you SPAN!!

you should approach this situation as if there is nothing wrong with the game, because I seriously doubt there is.

your tires don't fall off immediately, it's always gradual. You have to be able to determine this on your own based on how the car feels, how much grip you have under braking and through corners is really the only way to know, aside from lap times of course. Once your lap times start to drop off by 2 seconds or more (depending on length of track) it's probably time to change them. This means you will be running mostly clean laps the whole time so you can properly compare.

if your tires have blue lines around them, they have gotten too cold and need to be warmed up before you'll find any grip.

if your tires have red lines around them, they are too hot and you are either spinning them by using too much throttle, or you are causing major slides into braking zones and getting them too hot.

if it feels to you like your tires are losing grip suddenly, even when your tires aren't very worn, it's probably because you're being too generous with the throttle and just spinning out. You have to feather the throttle gently, especially in Gr.3 cars and higher. this takes a lot of practice if you're not used to it. maybe try turning on TCS to 2 if you can't get the hang of it at 0. If you not longer have that issue with TCS on, then you know it's a throttle input issue on your part. TCS2 will cause the car to bog down if you give it too much throttle, but it's almost impossible to spin out with it on, unless you're spinning due to lift-off oversteer, which is a different issue all together that is very noticeable in mid-engine cars.

in regards to daily races A & B with no tire wear, your grip should remain the same the entire time. there's no sudden loss of grip and no gradual loss of grip associated with tire wear. So if you're losing grip in those races, it's something you are doing wrong. Try being more gentle with everything, throttle, braking, steering inputs. Good luck.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
you should approach this situation as if there is nothing wrong with the game, because I seriously doubt there is.

your tires don't fall off immediately, it's always gradual. You have to be able to determine this on your own based on how the car feels, how much grip you have under braking and through corners is really the only way to know, aside from lap times of course. Once your lap times start to drop off by 2 seconds or more (depending on length of track) it's probably time to change them. This means you will be running mostly clean laps the whole time so you can properly compare.

if your tires have blue lines around them, they have gotten too cold and need to be warmed up before you'll find any grip.

if your tires have red lines around them, they are too hot and you are either spinning them by using too much throttle, or you are causing major slides into braking zones and getting them too hot.

if it feels to you like your tires are losing grip suddenly, even when your tires aren't very worn, it's probably because you're being too generous with the throttle and just spinning out. You have to feather the throttle gently, especially in Gr.3 cars and higher. this takes a lot of practice if you're not used to it. maybe try turning on TCS to 2 if you can't get the hang of it at 0. If you not longer have that issue with TCS on, then you know it's a throttle input issue on your part. TCS2 will cause the car to bog down if you give it too much throttle, but it's almost impossible to spin out with it on, unless you're spinning due to lift-off oversteer, which is a different issue all together that is very noticeable in mid-engine cars.

in regards to daily races A & B with no tire wear, your grip should remain the same the entire time. there's no sudden loss of grip and no gradual loss of grip associated with tire wear. So if you're losing grip in those races, it's something you are doing wrong. Try being more gentle with everything, throttle, braking, steering inputs. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice. I’m not certain if it was oversteer was during lift off or throttle application? Either way, I came off the accelerator and counter steered and I couldn’t stop it. It was suddenly like I was driving on ice. I’m just talking about the instance where I span now. I drive with tcs off all the time. I’m so used to oversteer from acceleration and how to deal with it. If I span anywhere I would expect it too happen at the chicane, not on a corner. So, let me get this straight. If I’m cornering with a small amount of acceleration then I lift off the throttle and turn more, that may cause lift off oversteer?
Or if I go into a corner too fast, brake too hard and late, then turn as hard as possible, lift off oversteer then?
I’ve had oversteer on cornering if I brake too early and the car then pivots inwards when I turn in to the corner. Every time that happens I counter steer out of it ok, unless I end up on the grass or something.
I’ll try keeping an eye on my tyres to see if they go red each corner and then let them cool if they are staying on red.
All the rest of the handling issues were noticeable for longer before things got worse. I was having handling issues on fresh tyres and was putting that down to fuel weight.
But then I remembered qualifying with a full tank and having no issues with handling????
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
Thanks for the advice. I’m not certain if it was oversteer was during lift off or throttle application? Either way, I came off the accelerator and counter steered and I couldn’t stop it. It was suddenly like I was driving on ice. I’m just talking about the instance where I span now. I drive with tcs off all the time. I’m so used to oversteer from acceleration and how to deal with it. If I span anywhere I would expect it too happen at the chicane, not on a corner. So, let me get this straight. If I’m cornering with a small amount of acceleration then I lift off the throttle and turn more, that may cause lift off oversteer?
Or if I go into a corner too fast, brake too hard and late, then turn as hard as possible, lift off oversteer then?
I’ve had oversteer on cornering if I brake too early and the car then pivots inwards when I turn in to the corner. Every time that happens I counter steer out of it ok, unless I end up on the grass or something.
I’ll try keeping an eye on my tyres to see if they go red each corner and then let them cool if they are staying on red.
All the rest of the handling issues were noticeable for longer before things got worse. I was having handling issues on fresh tyres and was putting that down to fuel weight.
But then I remembered qualifying with a full tank and having no issues with handling????
Ok. I’m back on GT Sport tonight. I’ve just tried each of the daily races and I’m
Experiencing intermittent handling problems. I think it may have been down to a bad USB connection on my Thrustmaster T80. I plugged the lead in and it was very tight. I’m wondering if my movements have been stretching the cable out so it is almost out of the plug in the PS4. I’ll try to keep an eye on it. Handling seems better currently.
 
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163
Denmark
Denmark
Take care not to apply too much steering angle when turning - above a certain (corner/speed dependent) angle and you aren't turning more, but just tearing up the tires and bleeding speed. Those of us fortunate enough to own an FFB wheel can feel when that happens, but with a T80 you have to be really careful and use your eyes and ears (the awful tire screeching.)
 
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2,776
England
England
kilesa4568
Thrustmaster T80

Hearing that makes me think you're over driving the car. No force feedback and a tiny 240 DoR sounds like a nightmare for tire wear races as there's zero 'feel' other than what you can see.

When it happens again, record a clip to help us out but I think you'll always be limited to what you can do with that wheel.
 
2,776
England
England
kilesa4568
As it's a physical lock to lock rotation, I imagine the game's soft lock will adjust to it. Karting might be tricky with 240...:D

If I'm remembering right, the T80 has dampened steering at higher speeds though, just like the pad does. That should relax the DoR a bit.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
Hearing that makes me think you're over driving the car. No force feedback and a tiny 240 DoR sounds like a nightmare for tire wear races as there's zero 'feel' other than what you can see.

When it happens again, record a clip to help us out but I think you'll always be limited to what you can do with that wheel.
I am tempted to get a G29 as I feel
I’d benefit from force feedback.

I wonder how the game handles this. Does it scale the wheel's 240° up to 900° in-game (not the same in all groups/cars) or map it one-to-one (which of course means restricted steering range?)
I wondered if limited dor meant reduced steering angle but it compensates for it. You still get full lock. You turn the T80 and watch the steering wheel on the inside car view. Steering wheel on game display goes to max and you can turn the T80 slightly more after.

As it's a physical lock to lock rotation, I imagine the game's soft lock will adjust to it. Karting might be tricky with 240...:D

If I'm remembering right, the T80 has dampened steering at higher speeds though, just like the pad does. That should relax the DoR a bit.
It is far much easier to handle a kart in real life. You feel every twitch of the chassis and can smooth everything out to get the fastest lap possible. I really miss my Easykart. Those were the day’s. I never raced but going to test days at circuits was extremely enjoying. I had an Alfano Pro lap timer. I set lap times at Whilton Mill then I got talking to someone who had a senior rotax kart there on the same day. He had been runner up in championships because he couldn’t afford to get as many engine rebuilds as some competitors. I asked him if he could drive my kart to see if I had it set up right. He did a few laps. He came back in and set set up was fine. We compared lap times and our lap times were the same. He consistently got the same times each lap as I did. He looked back through the recorded times and one of my laps was half a second faster than all the rest of our laps. He told me that I’d be fine in races if I could get a lap time like that. One of the proudest moments of my life! Sometimes, when I play this game with a steering wheel it feels like I’m back in a kart!
 
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2,776
England
England
kilesa4568
I feel I’d benefit from force feedback.

Definitely. There isn't a lot of FFB on a G29 in GTS (better in other games) but what there is works well.

It is far much easier to handle a kart in real life.

I was just pointing out that the kart's in GTS have a lightning quick steering rack. They're a white knuckle ride with 900° so a limited DoR wheel like yours will likely exaggerate its speed.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
Definitely. There isn't a lot of FFB on a G29 in GTS (better in other games) but what there is works well.



I was just pointing out that the kart's in GTS have a lightning quick steering rack. They're a white knuckle ride with 900° so a limited DoR wheel like yours will likely exaggerate its speed.
I don’t have much experience of what is a good wheel. I would buy the same Thrustmaster as used in the official competitions but I’ll never afford that with a child and mortgage. And those fanatec setups. Never afford that. The G29 or Thrustmaster 150 or whatever it is, is more in my price range. There are youtubers using the G29 and getting very good lap times. Not far behind the top 10.
 

Groundfish

(Banned)
4,363
United States
United States
you should approach this situation as if there is nothing wrong with the game, because I seriously doubt there is.

your tires don't fall off immediately, it's always gradual. You have to be able to determine this on your own based on how the car feels, how much grip you have under braking and through corners is really the only way to know, aside from lap times of course. Once your lap times start to drop off by 2 seconds or more (depending on length of track) it's probably time to change them. This means you will be running mostly clean laps the whole time so you can properly compare.

if your tires have blue lines around them, they have gotten too cold and need to be warmed up before you'll find any grip.

if your tires have red lines around them, they are too hot and you are either spinning them by using too much throttle, or you are causing major slides into braking zones and getting them too hot.

if it feels to you like your tires are losing grip suddenly, even when your tires aren't very worn, it's probably because you're being too generous with the throttle and just spinning out. You have to feather the throttle gently, especially in Gr.3 cars and higher. this takes a lot of practice if you're not used to it. maybe try turning on TCS to 2 if you can't get the hang of it at 0. If you not longer have that issue with TCS on, then you know it's a throttle input issue on your part. TCS2 will cause the car to bog down if you give it too much throttle, but it's almost impossible to spin out with it on, unless you're spinning due to lift-off oversteer, which is a different issue all together that is very noticeable in mid-engine cars.

in regards to daily races A & B with no tire wear, your grip should remain the same the entire time. there's no sudden loss of grip and no gradual loss of grip associated with tire wear. So if you're losing grip in those races, it's something you are doing wrong. Try being more gentle with everything, throttle, braking, steering inputs. Good luck.

Great post.
To OP...

 
2,776
England
England
kilesa4568
I don’t have much experience of what is a good wheel. I would buy the same Thrustmaster as used in the official competitions but I’ll never afford that with a child and mortgage. And those fanatec setups. Never afford that. The G29 or Thrustmaster 150 or whatever it is, is more in my price range. There are youtubers using the G29 and getting very good lap times. Not far behind the top 10.

The two you've mentioned have the budget sector sown up. The T150 has stronger feedback than the G29 (not by much) but the G29 is pretty much bullet proof. Had mine for about 30 months and it still looks and acts like it's new. £150 for a T150 and £20 more for a G29.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
Take care not to apply too much steering angle when turning - above a certain (corner/speed dependent) angle and you aren't turning more, but just tearing up the tires and bleeding speed. Those of us fortunate enough to own an FFB wheel can feel when that happens, but with a T80 you have to be really careful and use your eyes and ears (the awful tire screeching.)
Thanks for the advice. I hadn’t thought of this. I hear tyres screeching like hell on the fastest lap replays of the top ten but it’s hard to gauge how hard to push it in a race. I was probably pushing too hard early on but I wasn’t prepared for the car to go into such a violent uncontrollable oversteer. I wish it had told me it was about to do it some corners before and gradually built me up to realising something was wrong like it did the rest of the race. I’m almost certain I didn’t just drop my accelerator to the floor mid corner thus causing it to spin.

This is how I drove in practice and qualifying. Maybe I need to slow down a bit in the race?
Fast forward to 3 minutes.
 
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2,776
England
England
kilesa4568
Sorry to nag but any chance of us seeing your inputs and tires in the replay? Press circle after you've set the view etc to get rid of the replay options and bumper or bonnet view would help too.
 
43
United Kingdom
Coleford, Gloucestershire, England
kars-of_sports
Sorry to nag but any chance of us seeing your inputs and tires in the replay? Press circle after you've set the view etc to get rid of the replay options and bumper or bonnet view would help too.
I know. It’s not very good. I’ll share an onboard view video.
Update. The new video I’ve shared to YouTube isn’t viewable on YouTube yet. I’ll share it when I have it. I just tried my wheel on the 125 shifter kart on tonight’s championship event. I give up. I Can only turn the wheel a tiny fraction otherwise I’m going from side to side. My forearms are hurting from trying to control it and having to keep the wheel so centred.
Update:
I hope you see this in your notifications??? I can’t figure out if you will. I keep getting reprimanded for unnecessary posts.
Here is the video

Update: If you look at the video posted by the Russian racer on the Facebook Gran Turismo page under the post, Hows your manufacturer series going?, that is an exact replica of how my race went. He had handling issues also.
 
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