Shaving off seconds: Man or Machine?

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Stigsblkcousin

Stigsblkcousin

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BEMBEMBOWBOW
So I devised a little challenge for myself, make a R33 as fast as a Mercielego around Leguna Seca. At this point, I'm 2 seconds behind the time I set with the Merci. I really want to do this without maxing out anything(biggest turbo, stage 3 engine tune, ect). I'm currently still using the stock turbo, common sense would tell to just get a bigger turbo and be done with. Do you think I should go for more power or could I drive off the 2 seconds?

Whats the threshold? At what point is it more power over better driving?
 
That's probably something you would know based on how you're driving. You know when you've had a good run and you know when you didn't.
 
its about your driving you can make any car go fast like lambo or anything with REALLY good driving
look like nice challenge
maybe i will do it with top gear test track or nurburgring
 
Stigsblkcousin
So I devised a little challenge for myself, make a R33 as fast as a Mercielego around Leguna Seca. At this point, I'm 2 seconds behind the time I set with the Merci. I really want to do this without maxing out anything(biggest turbo, stage 3 engine tune, ect). I'm currently still using the stock turbo, common sense would tell to just get a bigger turbo and be done with. Do you think I should go for more power or could I drive off the 2 seconds?

Whats the threshold? At what point is it more power over better driving?
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You have to come to the point where you feel like you're going to go off at every corner. You have to be touching every white line, kicking up as much dust as you can get away with.

Have you modified the car suspension-wise? Or is this stock vs. stock? If it's the former, then you'd have an easier way of getting there, as sorting the handling and setup can be worth 2seconds sometimes. If it's the latter, then it's all about driving at the limit, but never overdriving. Do some experiments on specific corners on how late you can brake without compromising corner exit. The Corkscrew is a key corner, because of the way the first part of the corner sets you up for the exit.

Remember you can also play with the brake balance, ABS etc. to get that feel right. If you had it mapped out (or had a DFGT) you could even work out brake balance settings for EACH corner.

And remember if you find 2 tenths on one lap, you can probably do that again. That's my philosophy for time trial and hotlapping...
 
Stigsblkcousin
So I devised a little challenge for myself, make a R33 as fast as a Murcielago around Laguna Seca. At this point, I'm 2 seconds behind the time I set with the Murci. I really want to do this without maxing out anything(biggest turbo, stage 3 engine tune, ect). I'm currently still using the stock turbo, common sense would tell to just get a bigger turbo and be done with. Do you think I should go for more power or could I drive off the 2 seconds?

Whats the threshold? At what point is it more power over better driving?
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I'm thinking you'll need at least a little more power than what it's got stock. The rest comes down to your driving skill.
 
If car A is faster than B, and car A set a lap at its best, car B can never beat car A no matter how well it's driven.

If you beat the Murc with the R33, you probably weren't driving the Lamborghini fast enough.
 
Exorcet
If car A is faster than B, and car A set a lap at its best, car B can never beat car A no matter how well it's driven.

If you beat the Murc with the R33, you probably weren't driving the Lamborghini fast enough.
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I agree so the question is have you driven both cars as well as you could have?
 
danardif1
You have to come to the point where you feel like you're going to go off at every corner. You have to be touching every white line, kicking up as much dust as you can get away with.

Have you modified the car suspension-wise? Or is this stock vs. stock? If it's the former, then you'd have an easier way of getting there, as sorting the handling and setup can be worth 2seconds sometimes. If it's the latter, then it's all about driving at the limit, but never overdriving. Do some experiments on specific corners on how late you can brake without compromising corner exit. The Corkscrew is a key corner, because of the way the first part of the corner sets you up for the exit.

Remember you can also play with the brake balance, ABS etc. to get that feel right. If you had it mapped out (or had a DFGT) you could even work out brake balance settings for EACH corner.

And remember if you find 2 tenths on one lap, you can probably do that again. That's my philosophy for time trial and hotlapping...
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Yes, on the R33 I've modded the suspension, a stage one weight loss, two engine upgrades, chassis reinforcement, manifold, cat, and semi-racing exhaust. The Murcielago(thanks frieght:)) is completely stock. I'm trying to keep it "street legal". I haven't tried tinkering with the brake balance and such, I'm going to give that a try.

Exorcet
If car A is faster than B, and car A set a lap at its best, car B can never beat car A no matter how well it's driven.

If you beat the Murc with the R33, you probably weren't driving the Lamborghini fast enough.
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I beg to differ, I believe with a little tuning car B can beat car A. I mean I'm only 2 seconds off with a little over a third of the bhp. And, yes I drove the Lambo to the best of my capabilities.
 
I agree with Exorcet: when you setup your R33, maybe you will beat the murcielago, but only because you didn't setup your murcielago. Like Exorcet said: If car a (murcielago) is faster than car b (R33), you will never beat it. If you beat it, it's because you didn't drive car a well, or you didn't tune car a well.
 
Daniel46
I agree with Exorcet: when you setup your R33, maybe you will beat the murcielago, but only because you didn't setup your murcielago. Like Exorcet said: If car a (murcielago) is faster than car b (R33), you will never beat it. If you beat it, it's because you didn't drive car a well, or you didn't tune car a well.
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I think his point is that he is trying to tune a car that normally wouldn't beat a stock Murcie, to then beat it with as little expense on tuning parts and extra horsepower as possible.

think of it as similar to the Top Gear Avantime challenge...
 
If the track is Leguna Seca then run the Endurance race in the R33. After that many laps you will know if it's possible or not, and a good idea where to tweak the tune to get more out of it.
 
Oh, ok now i understand. Forget about my answer. Maybe you can do it, but I think you have to tune the R33 really well.
 
Ronald6
If the track is Laguna Seca then run the Endurance race in the R33. After that many laps you will know if it's possible or not, and a good idea where to tweak the tune to get more out of it.
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It's Laguna Seca not Leguna Seca.
 
Stigsblkcousin
Yes, on the R33 I've modded the suspension, a stage one weight loss, two engine upgrades, chassis reinforcement, manifold, cat, and semi-racing exhaust. The Murcielago(thanks frieght:)) is completely stock. I'm trying to keep it "street legal". I haven't tried tinkering with the brake balance and such, I'm going to give that a try.



I beg to differ, I believe with a little tuning car B can beat car A. I mean I'm only 2 seconds off with a little over a third of the bhp. And, yes I drove the Lambo to the best of my capabilities.
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If you beat the Lambo time with the R33, you should then give the Lambo another chance to prove itself after. Practice makes perfect so after you gain experience in the R33 and your driving skill improves, you will probably be better in the Lambo. Especially if you practice in it as much in the Lambo as the R33.
 
I think 2 seconds is a lot of time to make up.

Mazda Raceway is a technical course, not really a power track. So, the biggest improvements in time would probably be setup instead of power. There are also several hard braking zones, so proper brake setup will help improve your time too.

I also think you would see a good time improvement if you reduce some more weight. Maybe the window weight reduction, and if you still need more, then Stage 2.

An adjustable LSD (I didn't see it mentioned in your list of upgrades) would help a lot if properly set up for the power and driving style.
 
iamjajo
I think 2 seconds is a lot of time to make up.

Mazda Raceway is a technical course, not really a power track. So, the biggest improvements in time would probably be setup instead of power. There are also several hard braking zones, so proper brake setup will help improve your time too.

I also think you would see a good time improvement if you reduce some more weight. Maybe the window weight reduction, and if you still need more, then Stage 2.

An adjustable LSD (I didn't see it mentioned in your list of upgrades) would help a lot if properly set up for the power and driving style.
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👍
 
Practice until you get it right, then keep practicing until you can't get it wrong.
 
This reminds me A LOT of that film Jeremy Clarkson did on Top Gear.
Seeing if he could get around Laguna faster IRL or in GT4...
He was a helluva lot faster in GT4, I'd like to see him try again with GT5 now that the TGTT is in the game...
Kind of off topic.
Just a thought I had.
 
On the track, the Lambo may have to much power, and not enough grip (for the power it has, and the turns the course has). I think you can do it, but that is quite a gap.

However, with both cars set up for the track, the Lambo should still beat the R33, all things being relative.
 
Maybe someone could set a mega fast time with the Lambo (stock) and post a pic and other can try to beat that time with as little tuning of the R33 as possible? We could make it a challenge, what do you all think?
I'd give it a try but don't have time right now to set a fast lap in the Lambo.
 
shem
Maybe someone could set a mega fast time with the Lambo (stock) and post a pic and other can try to beat that time with as little tuning of the R33 as possible? We could make it a challenge, what do you all think?
I'd give it a try but don't have time right now to set a fast lap in the Lambo.
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Good idea!
 
More than likely, if you can shave off those 2 seconds, you can improve your time with the Lambo as well. You'll need to even them up.
 
gogatrs
Good idea!
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If some one can put in a fast time with a STOCK and UN-TUNED Lambo I'll have a go at trying to beat it with a mildly tuned R33.
What kind of budget would be appropriate? What tyres?
 
I looked this morning and I have 2 R33s. A 95 and a 96. The 95 is slightly tuned and has a power to weight of about 2.7 kg per hp. The 96 has only had an oil change.

The 95 is a nice handling car.

The only Murcielago I have is the Chrome line. I haven't done anything to it.

I'll try them both at Laguna Seca with SS tires and post the times tomorrow. (I'm running my final b-spec race today - Nurb 24).
 
Are you using a wheel+3D, that combination can and has shave many sec off
 
The question is, what's the stock PP of the Lamborghini? Before setting off on this challenge, I would first see if the R33 can actually match the Murcie when tuned up in power and weight-matched to the Murcie to have the same PP... with the stock suspension setting.

If it doesn't, tune the suspension till it does.

If it matches or beats the Murcie on the stock setting or with your new settings, start going downwards in power until it doesn't, then retune the suspension and LSD settings.

Not quite sure if it'll beat the Murcie without big power... without the ability to change tire width and profile, caster and offset, you're basically handicapped by the limitations of the stock suspension compared to the ultra-wide and ultra-low Murcielago.

And Laguna SECA requires power. The front straight comes off a hairpin, so you're accelerating from 1st gear to 4th or 5th. Then there's the straight after turn three... then the two uphill straights that are a pure test of power.
 
Theres definately time to be made up with driving style, missing an apex can cause you to need to correct exiting the corner which reduces corner exit speed and therefore top speed after the corner until you reach the next corner. Seconds can be made up.
 
Yes, but the significant power difference between the Murcie and the R33 will allow you to eat up time lost to mistakes in the Murcie with little trouble.

What you need to do at the very first is to see how much of the difference in pace is down to power. Which means PP matching the two cars (same weight, same power) and observing how they behave at the same power levels. That also shows whether it's actually possible to beat the Murcie with a lower-powered suspension-tuned R33.
 
What is the exact setup for the R33 and the time you got maybe I could see it is possible myself
 
Just checking in.

Every time it get close to the Lambos time with the R33, I go again with the Lambo and bet the time I had set. Its still roughly 2 seconds. I think I'm going to have to give in and buy a stage one turbo.

EDIT: Oh, btw my best clean lap time with the stock Lambo was 1'35.070( I know its not that fast) and the R33 is at 1'37.126

My set up for the R33(PLEASE feel free to give pointers)

LSD: Stock config
TSCD: Front - 35 Rear - 65

Suspension

Height: F - (-15) R- (-13)
Spring rate: 9.2 11.5
Damper(Ext): 5 5
Damper(comp): 5 5
AntiRoll: 7 7
Camber: 1.0 1.0
Toe: 0 0.20

As far as parts I've added a stage 2 weight reduction, windows, carbon hood, LSD and TSCD.
 
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