Shifting Gears & Tunnel Sound

Superveloce2010

Superveloce2010

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Warghost20
Gran Turismo 5 is a simulator. So i have been watching all the details and what i think is wrong is the speed of shifting gears , in some manual geared cars you can shift zo fast that it looks more like an automatic gearbox. Now i have also been playing Test Drive Unlimited 2. Now there shifting gears is more realistic because if you shift its not as fast as in GT5 , which is more realistic.

2e thing. When you enter a tunnel , the engine noise doesent change at all , only in Special Route , but in other tunnels there is no change. I mean c'mon you call it a Simulator but even in Grand Theft Auto 4 or Test Drive Unlimited 2 in every tunnel the engine noise is louder.

I think PD should fix these problems

What do you think?
 
Superveloce2010
Gran Turismo 5 is a simulator. So i have been watching all the details and what i think is wrong is the speed of shifting gears , in some manual geared cars you can shift zo fast that it looks more like an automatic gearbox. Now i have also been playing Test Drive Unlimited 2. Now there shifting gears is more realistic because if you shift its not as fast as in GT5 , which is more realistic.

2e thing. When you enter a tunnel , the engine noise doesent change at all , only in Special Route , but in other tunnels there is no change. I mean c'mon you call it a Simulator but even in Grand Theft Auto 4 or Test Drive Unlimited 2 in every tunnel the engine noise is louder.

I think PD should fix these problems

What do you think?
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The tunnel issue is too small for me to care about. It's not "The Real Tunnel Simulator".

As for the gears, it's a lot of work to make every car change gears like real life...
 
But some cars (primarily the ones with paddle shift) use multiple clutches and all sorts of electronic wizardry that makes shifting fast. This is why they sound like an automatic simply because gear shifting has been reduced to milliseconds through use of a semi-automatic box. This is not necessarily a fault.
 
Another thread that is destined for the non-existent Bug Report sub-forum.

Anyways, +1, and the sound change should not be instantaneous like it is either.
 
freight48
The tunnel issue is too small for me to care about. It's not "The Real Tunnel Simulator".

Well they call it the real driving simulator , and tunnel effects isent a big thing to ask , because its even in Grand Theft Auto 4 , so thats why i am so suprised it isent in the game

As for the gears, it's a lot of work to make every car change gears like real life...
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I dont say it should be like that , just a bit slower

blue_thunder
But some cars (primarily the ones with paddle shift) use multiple clutches and all sorts of electronic wizardry that makes shifting fast. This is why they sound like an automatic simply because gear shifting has been reduced to milliseconds through use of a semi-automatic box. This is not necessarily a fault.
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isent there a way to let the manual geared cars change slower? i only use a controller tough.
 
Don't forget also that as the computer is responsible for clutch operation, you effectively get 100% precision gear changes every single shift in a manual car on GT5.

If you look at some videos on YouTube of guys using a G25/G27 on GT5 - with the H-shift gear change pattern and obviously manual clutch operation - the gear changes are much more like real life gear changes (slower).
 
Use a proper wheel instead...
And if you don't add the extra clutch and flywheel tuning on all the cars I bet this thread wouldn't have been like this.
 
in real life you have to take our foot off the gas and engage the clutch whilst you shift, so if you tried momentarily releasing the acceleration whilst you changed gear you would get the result you wanted?
 
Superveloce2010
i only use a controller tough.
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Basically you seek the outmost realism while using the most unrealisitc control method available? That doesn't make any sense, it's like complaining that iracing doesn't work well with a keyboard. Get a proper wheel with a clutch.
 
NSX>GOD
in real life you have to take our foot off the gas and engage the clutch whilst you shift, so if you tried momentarily releasing the acceleration whilst you changed gear you would get the result you wanted?
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I tried that , but its not the effect i wanted

Cosbuster
Basically you seek the outmost realism while using the most unrealisitc control method available? That doesn't make any sense, it's like complaining that iracing doesn't work well with a keyboard. Get a proper wheel with a clutch.
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I dont seek the outmost realism , but why do i see propper gear changes in TDU 2 for example and tunnel sounds in Grand Theft Auto 4 and TDU 2 so i dont understand why those features arent in GT5 , and i mean c'mon tunnel sounds i think is a must for next gen , i dont think its mutch too ask for because like i said almost every game with cars in it , it has that feature.

Example , this is how a car with manual gears should be like. Compare the shifting in TDU 2 and in GT5

 
I think the person in the TDU video was letting off the gas rather than shifting. If that's how long it takes to shift in that game, well GT has it way closer then. *I* can shift faster than the TDU video was shifting, in a Jeep Wrangler.

Some of the shifts in GT are probably a bit fast, but it is possible to shift pretty darn quick. I'll look for a video I recently saw of a hillclimb event, the driver was shifting so fast you'd swear it was a dual clutch box, but it was a regular old 6 speed H pattern. If I find it I'll come back and post a link.
 
TDU2 sounds nothing like real life, the way the gears react when you go up/down is ridiculous, the jump in sound. Also the game puts fake triggered effects and time delays on gears in sequential mode, it feels and sounds unnatural, but in H-shifter mode all the gear changes are instant and there is no sound. So essencially, sequencial mode acts as if you're driving the car and someone really slow is changing gears for you, and forcing you to take your foot off the throttle while he slowly changes gears. In H-shifter mode the game acts like a real semi-automatic sequencial. How does that make sense?


In GT5 every car works as if it has a full sequencial semi-automatic gearbox (not ideal, but its more fair then "guessing" how a driver would change gear in each car), that meaning you can keep your foot on the throttle when shifting up, and it will blip the throttle automatically when you shift down and the time between gear changes will be minimal. However if you play in H-shifter with the clutch you have to do these things manually, meaning you have to take your foot off the throttle between gear changes, giving you the desired "sound".

Every car is different, if you're a skilled driver then you can change gear very fast with a full manual, some cars come with manual sequencials or semi-automatic sequencials, especially modern sports cars and supercars, these gearboxes really do change gear instantly, so its silly when games like TDU2 artificially include delays in gearbox changes, especially when combined with cars that in real life include fast instant changing sequencial gearboxes.


Lastly, sounds wise i think TDU2 has some of the worst on the market for any game of the last 5 years, physics too, to be honest. GT5 isnt perfect, don't get me wrong, but TDU2 as an example is the worst you could use when trying to make your point.

On to tunnel sounds - I hear the reverb effect come on in the tunnel in GT5 just as it does in TDU2, i fail to see what your point is here.




Lastly, without sounding mean, i think you haven't got a clue what you're on about, and are trying to find faults that don't exist based on your limited experience/knowledge.
 
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Just buy yourself a G27 and shift as slow as you want, you can even recreate the shifting time used in an old Mack :p
 
GT4 had a bigger pause between shifts. So yes, it can be done. NFS Underground 2 had more realistic shift sounds. So yes, it can be done.

Its ok if DSG gear box equipped cars shift that fast, but you don´t want the same effect in an old Hemi Challenger R/T.

Another thing, is that shifting sound effects are very random. Some cars that have exclusivly automatic gear boxes, shift like a manual, like the Mustang GT, SLR and such. And others respect this, like the IS-F and the SL55.

Shifting animations are very random as well. In the SL55, the driver does´nt use the shifting buttons behind the wheel, or the +/- slot in the shift stick. But in the Challenger SRT8, the driver does, although the car sounds like a manual when you can see its an automatic(isn´t that wierd?).

When having a car with paddle shifters, the driver aparently has a problem on choosing a paddle to press, and he seems to be in a constant dilema for the whole race. This is very anoying, btw...

enough...
 
HuskyGT
GT4 had a bigger pause between shifts. So yes, it can be done. NFS Underground 2 had more realistic shift sounds. So yes, it can be done.

Its ok if DSG gear box equipped cars shift that fast, but you don´t want the same effect in an old Hemi Challenger R/T.

Another thing, is that shifting sound effects are very random. Some cars that have exclusivly automatic gear boxes, shift like a manual, like the Mustang GT, SLR and such. And others respect this, like the IS-F and the SL55.

Shifting animations are very random as well. In the SL55, the driver does´nt use the shifting buttons behind the wheel, or the +/- slot in the shift stick. But in the Challenger SRT8, the driver does, although the car sounds like a manual when you can see its an automatic(isn´t that wierd?).

When having a car with paddle shifters, the driver aparently has a problem on choosing a paddle to press, and he seems to be in a constant dilema for the whole race. This is very anoying, btw...

enough...
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For the Challenger, go to photomode and look inside the car, at the shifter lever, and you'll understand why ;)
 
Bigbazz
[...] and forcing you to take your foot off the throttle while he slowly changes gears. [...]
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This would make sense in GT5 if realistic mechanical damage were implemented. It's the behavior that can be found in many serious PC racing simulators.
With throttle control during upshifts, it would be possible to powershift (either properly or just making the clutch slipping a bit) at the expense of clutch/gearbox/engine durability.
Also, in general, gearshifts would feel more realistic as they would not be all the same (since some amount of user control would be involved, unlike in the perfectly rev-matched CPU gearshifts).
 
Superveloce2010
Gran Turismo 5 is a simulator. So i have been watching all the details and what i think is wrong is the speed of shifting gears , in some manual geared cars you can shift zo fast that it looks more like an automatic gearbox. Now i have also been playing Test Drive Unlimited 2. Now there shifting gears is more realistic because if you shift its not as fast as in GT5 , which is more realistic.
What do you think?
Click to expand...

Have you upgraded the clutch/flywheel in these cars? I know on some stock cars (with stock clutch and heavier flywheel) the shifting is pretty slow and pronounced.
 
Superveloce2010
Gran Turismo 5 is a simulator. So i have been watching all the details and what i think is wrong is the speed of shifting gears , in some manual geared cars you can shift zo fast that it looks more like an automatic gearbox. Now i have also been playing Test Drive Unlimited 2. Now there shifting gears is more realistic because if you shift its not as fast as in GT5 , which is more realistic.

2e thing. When you enter a tunnel , the engine noise doesent change at all , only in Special Route , but in other tunnels there is no change. I mean c'mon you call it a Simulator but even in Grand Theft Auto 4 or Test Drive Unlimited 2 in every tunnel the engine noise is louder.

I think PD should fix these problems

What do you think?
Click to expand...

I can´t agree with your arguments.

At first, I like how the sound changes, when you are driving through a tunnel and it feels clearly different than driving outside. Maybe not perfect, but noticeable and good.

And second, the shifting times are really good simulated. Almost every car has it´s own shift times and you can clearly differ the gearbox and clutch of a small road car from a sports car or a race car.

So I don´t understand, where your problem is.
 
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GT5 should be like this:idea:

You're at level 0-15, so you shift manual cars like this:


Once you reach level 20+ you're a pro:D
 
freight48
The tunnel issue is too small for me to care about. It's not "The Real Tunnel Simulator".
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That's right, it is too small an issue. However, GT5 has a multitude of small issues that all add up to one big thing, for instance, one paper cut is unlikely to bother you, but a whole handfull can make everyone seem like a bigger problem.

And, GT has always opened itself up to extra criticism by using "The Real Driving Simulator" tag line, in so much as anything that doesn't live up to that statement is gonna be criticised. If it never had that printed on the front of every game in the series, people would probably just judge it as any another driving game & not point out it's many short comings & failiures to live up to that claim.

We have a product here in the UK called Ronseal & that "Does Exactly What It Says On The Tin", it's PD's shame that GT doesn't in many regards.
 
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VBR
That's right, it is too small an issue. However, GT5 has a multitude of small issues that all add up to one big thing, for instance, one paper cut is unlikely to bother you, but a whole handfull can make everyone seem like a bigger problem.
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Think about, that some problems are so small, that you don´t need to care about or they don´t influence the gameplay at all.

It would be too easy to add all small problems to a sum, because not every players sees the same problem as another one or he doesn´t care ;)
 
Big Ron
Think about, that some problems are so small, that you don´t need to care about or they don´t influence the gameplay at all.

It would be too easy to add all small problems to a sum, because not every players sees the same problem as another one or he doesn´t care ;)
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But why did other games with cars did bother to put it into the game , and the real driving simulator they have been working on for so many years doesent? thats what i dont understand.

I never buy race flywheels etc on manual geared cars. Yesterday i was driving my Zonda C12S 7.3 , and the first gear change sounds normal , but after 2e gear it all sounds like an automatic gearbox , i just think thats wrong , especially when you see that other car games do have it right
 
Superveloce2010
But why did other games with cars did bother to put it into the game , and the real driving simulator they have been working on for so many years doesent? thats what i dont understand.

I never buy race flywheels etc on manual geared cars. Yesterday i was driving my Zonda C12S 7.3 , and the first gear change sounds normal , but after 2e gear it all sounds like an automatic gearbox , i just think thats wrong , especially when you see that other car games do have it right
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In my opinion, you think too detailed and for every car as an own object.
But think about, that there are 1000 cars in the game and you need to develop a system, which works for different types of cars as a group. That counts for sound, gear shift, tyres etc.

If they would go in detail for every single car in specific characteristics, you for sure would wait for GT5, yet.

Of course they call it driving simulator and maybe they overestimated themself with the number of cars and tracks for the game, but you can be happy with what they define as simulation, because GT5 makes the job really good when it comes to drive a car.

But most people go in detail for single objects instead of seeing the game as a sum. They think, the developer should spend weeks just with this specific detail, but don´t see how the developer need to be ready to put together all things to a complete.

If you would count peas for every game you buy, you would come to the same problems as most here think, GT5 has. Most of you are too busy with seing problems as playing parts of the game, that they like.
 
Big Ron
In my opinion, you think too detailed and for every car as an own object.
But think about, that there are 1000 cars in the game and you need to develop a system, which works for different types of cars as a group. That counts for sound, gear shift, tyres etc.

If they would go in detail for every single car in specific characteristics, you for sure would wait for GT5, yet.

Of course they call it driving simulator and maybe they overestimated themself with the number of cars and tracks for the game, but you can be happy with what they define as simulation, because GT5 makes the job really good when it comes to drive a car.

But most people go in detail for single objects instead of seeing the game as a sum. They think, the developer should spend weeks just with this specific detail, but don´t see how the developer need to be ready to put together all things to a complete.

If you would count peas for every game you buy, you would come to the same problems as most here think, GT5 has.
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Well 800 cars came from GT4 , and like i said i dont think making gear changes slower would be that mutch work. I just think they did not bothered with doing it. Also what i saw is that you dont see smoke in your rear mirror? again small detail but it just makes the game unfinished.

But watch this , the change from 1e to 2e is what i call normal speed , 2e to 3rd is also good , but from 3rd to 4th and from 4th to 5th and from 5th to 6th it just sounds like an automatic.
 
Superveloce2010
Well 800 cars came from GT4 , and like i said i dont think making gear changes slower would be that mutch work. I just think they did not bothered with doing it. Also what i saw is that you dont see smoke in your rear mirror? again small detail but it just makes the game unfinished.
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Making gear changes slower would not necessarily make it more realistic. Just an example: http://www.streetfire.net/video/s2000-shifting_29780.htm now an example from GT5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_MtSNyu6BI.

The real life version is actually being shifted faster.
 

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