Shots Fired! The 2007 Pickup Battle

[YSSMAN]

Okay, so I'm bored. We haven't had a good argument on here in a while, and while trying to put myself in an interesting moment, its the best I could come up with.

So, whats up? Well, I guess I'm kinda thinking about doing a "Best" series again, but instead of going country-to-country, maybe do something segment-to-segment. I do realize that I have attempted it in the past (with moderate success), so I figure we'll give it a go once again...

---

Well, the new trucks are out, and the market certainly is as heated as ever. Although it is certainly a full-size truck game, the little kids are still having fun too, but this is mostly about the big kids.

So what do you view as the best pickup in the segment? The venerable Ford F-150? The new kid, the Toyota Tundra? The veteran Dodge Ram? There are a lot of great choices out there, and I would suppose that I cannot limit to to size overall per-se, but to just pickups. They obviously have to be MY 2007+, and can be sold anywhere in the world.

...Go for it... Have fun... Don't be afraid to make a stand...

---

Me? Well, being as predictable as I am, could you have guessed any different?

The wonderful 2007 Chevrolet Silverado 1500​

Generally speaking, I can't think of a better truck. The Silverado took everything that was great about the GMT800, sorted out the bad things, added a few extras to make it special, and rolled out this GMT900. I have to say, I'm impressed.

The first thing I've noticed when looking at it, is that it is a truck. It doesn't try hard to blend it, or to conform to some car idea that makes it curvy and "sexy." It does what it is meant to do, and rides around towing in excess of 10,000 lbs, looking great while doing so.

On the inside, things get pretty. The interior in the Silverado is lifted right out of the class-standard Tahoe, with high-quality materials, top-notch build quality, and a level of refinement really only matched by the Toyota Tundra... That is, until the whole Silver thing in the Toyota is mentioned, then it is pretty clear what looks better.

As noted, the Silverado is quite a capable truck. With class-leading towing, wonderful agility thanks to the 20" Goodyears and GM chassis-tuning, not to mention a wide range of engines (4.8L V8, a wide variety of 5.3L V8s, and the 6.0L V8 for max power), and the everlasting 4L80E automatic... This ones a winner. Okay, you could dock it points on the automatic (I do too), but with a design that is that good, and that reliable, I can't see any reason to change without a damn-good reason... Thankfully the 6L80E is a good reason, and it will happen... Eventually.

The good news is that Chevrolet will custom-tailor your Silverado to fit. It doesn't matter if you want the most basic regular-cab Work Truck all the way up to the crew-cab LTZ, you're bound to find the right combination of colors, doors, trim, and capability to do as you please. Beyond that, the prices are right, with basic models starting just-shy of $18,000 and going north of $38,000 for a crew-cab with the big-engine package.

...Screw the Toyota, I want a Chevy...

 

[Tornado]

It must be said, however, that if Toyota's third (?) try at the "Full Size Truck" market was dangerously close to GM. Perhaps not as close as the Titan was (that was perhaps arguably better than all of its competitors until it came down to quality and life of the interior components), but still dangerously close.
We shouldn't worry about the full size SUV market, though, as only the Europeans are close to us in that.
Barring the Montero, of course.


I pretty sure that the Dodge RAM is newer than the F-150, though, so I think the opening spiel is a little confusing.

 

[1X83Z]

The Tundra.

Does 0-60.

In six.

Point.

One.

Seconds.

That beats a WRX, you understand. Unless your WRX is being driven by Road & Track.

 

[Slicks]

But it's fugly. The Tundra is fugly.
Sure, styling is subjective. But it's fugly!
I've got a slight bias against Toyota, anyway.

I'd have to go for the GMC Sierra. It's got all the good qualities of the Chevy, but it looks (IMHO) a little more agressive, and doesn't carry the body line from the headlight through to the front fender.

It's got anywhere from the 195hp/260 lb-ft 4.3 V6 all the way up to the 6.0 V8 producing 367hp/375 lb-ft! It's more widely configurable than the Tundra.

Which is fugly.

 

[Joey D]

I love the new Tundra, the crew cab has a back seat you can have a house party in...the thing is roomy as hell. And M5 is right 6.1 0-60 is impressive for something of that size and weight.

The new GMT-900's are good trucks, the Silverado looks goofy though but the Sierra looks great. Both are solid trucks and they might very well dig GM out of the hole they were in.

I don't know anything about the Titan, I've never driven one nor have I really seen many of them.

The F-150 is good, but it needs a freshing up. It's growing stale in a competitive market, and that six door thing isn't going to save it. I don't want half a door on my truck.

I. HATE. THE. RAM. If there was ever a truck I think that is complete rubbish it is the Ram. I think it's the people that drive them mostly. They think they drive God's gift to the world because they have a Hemi. At least that is how it is around here. Any time you are being tailgated in a blinding snow storm, it's a Ram. Any time you get cut off on the freeway, it's a Ram. Any time someone blows a stop sign, does not yield correctly, or does any other bone head thing, they are driving a Ram. I don't know if that's how it is in other parts of the country but in Southeast Lower, Michigan that's how it works.

Plus I find the Ram to be ugly, have a horrible interior, be uncomfortable, and have shotty parts on it.

If I was in the market for a truck I would seriously look at a Toyota and I would test drive a Titan to see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Omnis]

But it's fugly. The Tundra is fugly.
Sure, styling is subjective. But it's fugly!
I've got a slight bias against Toyota, anyway.

I'd have to go for the GMC Sierra. It's got all the good qualities of the Chevy, but it looks (IMHO) a little more agressive, and doesn't carry the body line from the headlight through to the front fender.

It's got anywhere from the 195hp/260 lb-ft 4.3 V6 all the way up to the 6.0 V8 producing 367hp/375 lb-ft! It's more widely configurable than the Tundra.

Which is fugly.

A full-size with a V6? Laugh.

 

[1X83Z]

But it's fugly. The Tundra is fugly.
Sure, styling is subjective. But it's fugly!

And the interior is a bit odd.

But Slicks.

6.1 seconds.

 

[YSSMAN]

Since when has outright speed made the Tundra a reasonable choice? The decidedly old-school GMT800 Silverado SS ran 0-60 in 6.3 seconds and could tow about as much as the Tundra now, but that didn't guarantee sales whatsoever...

No one seems to mention the fact that the Silverado (and presumably the Sierra SLT) can out-brake the Tundra (187 ft versus 197 feet), out-handle the Tundra (0.72g versus 0.67g), and out-maneuver the Tundra in the lane-change *52 MPH versus 50.1 MPH). I thought the Tundra was supposed to drive like a car?

...Oh wait. They were so focused on having the filing cabinet in the arm-rest and the dual gloveboxes that can hold a Thermos that they couldn't give the Tundra the moves it should have given that it is a Toyota...

Second choice in this segment would probably be the Titan by days end, despite the fact that they aren't screwed together all too well, and I've heard of the heads going out on them fairly often...

...But then again, I do like the Ram despite it's gigantic pitfalls when it comes to overall interior quality, and the fact that the HEMI is falling behind. But then again, the only way I'd ever buy a Ram is in 2500 HD form with the Cummins Turbodiesel. So that fixes my problem...

---

I've found it rather funny how few of the Tundras have sold thus far. I took a drive by the Toyota dealer yesterday and the same navy blue Tundra that has been there since early February is still sitting there, and now its joined by some new burgundy model. I hope they have fun sitting, because the Chevy dealer next-door is going through Silverados like water...

 

[thebtspecial]

I think I've found my future truck!

 

[Bram Turismo]

Say what you want but that Chevy is ugly

 

[Duke]

Say what you want but that Chevy is ugly

Not as ugly as the truck it's replacing...

 

[Joey D]

Yup I've wondered since the unveiling why they didn't make the Silverado look like the Tahoe and the Avalanche, the front of those trucks look pretty good. I'm just glad they did NOT carry over the Yukon front end on a Sierra, the Yukon looks like it's being goosed or something.

 

[YSSMAN]

I wouldn't call the Silverado homely, but generally speaking I don't think photographs do the truck much justice in the looks department. I'd guess that a lot of people have a problem with the chrome grille, as it is really the only major difference between it and the Tahoe that it shares its platform with...

...They both look better than the Tundra anyway...

 

[Joey D]

I really don't think the Tundra looks all that bad. I still think the ugliest truck on the market is a Dodge Ram, it looks like a midget semi.

 

[skip0110]

I'll have the truck that you can get a 5.9 Cummins in.

The truck is just something for that awesome engine to push around.

The Tundra.

Does 0-60.

In six.

Point.

One.

Seconds.

That beats a WRX, you understand. Unless your WRX is being driven by Road & Track.

The Cummins.

Has six.

Hundred.

Ten.

Foot pounds.

Thats at 1600 rpm, you understand.

 

[Jim Prower]

Tundra...all that power...but it has that..that....nanny... Toyota's overprotective stability control system. which means 0-60 and 1/4 mi is all it's good at. and, I'll bet, that's in the lightest 5.7L configuration.

It's also a more expensive truck than a comparably equipped Silverado. (which Motor Trend...SUPRISE!!!...gave the nod due to that fact alone.) THe Chevy's the best gig going right now. Toyota, second. Ford, third. Nissan, fourth. Dodge...What happen? It was so good!

Come on, Daimler, a bit of money for the Mopar boys?

 

[Tornado]

The Tundra.

Does 0-60.

In six.

Point.

One.

Seconds.

The Chevrolet

SSR

Did 0-60.

In five.

Point.

Five.

Seconds.

And no one lined up to buy them.

 

[1X83Z]

The Chevrolet

SSR

Did 0-60.

In five.

Point.

Five.

Seconds.

And no one lined up to buy them.

It wasn't a truck! It didn't have 4WD, or any room in the bed, or an extended cab. It wasn't cheap, and it required - large - performance tires. The Tundra is a truck for the masses that outruns a WRX.

 

[Silverzone]

I like. Alot. Dodge Ram 2500

this one looks awesome as well.

Ford F450 Super Duty

 

[Jim Prower]

It wasn't a truck! It didn't have 4WD, or any room in the bed, or an extended cab. It wasn't cheap, and it required - large - performance tires. The Tundra is a truck for the masses that outruns a WRX.

No, absolutely not. The Tundra, I'll betcha, will only do that in 2WD, Short cab, Short bed, 5.7L configuration. lightest truck, most power. And you get to the corner, it's no contest. Heck, the Silverado would probably outdo it on a road course.

Thanks, Toyota, for Advanced Stability Control.

 

[Tornado]

It wasn't a truck!

Au contraire. It was a truck. Just a poor, overpriced, impratical and stupidly heavy truck.
And 0-60 only matters if you are towing something.
Unless you are driving a Jeep Cherokee.

 

[skip0110]

30-50 top gear acceleration is way more relevant if you are towing than unloaded 0-60.

Or you could look at 0-60 with 10,000 lbs on the hitch.

 

[YSSMAN]

No, absolutely not. The Tundra, I'll betcha, will only do that in 2WD, Short cab, Short bed, 5.7L configuration. lightest truck, most power. And you get to the corner, it's no contest. Heck, the Silverado would probably outdo it on a road course.

Thanks, Toyota, for Advanced Stability Control.

...Not that I would ever defend the Tundra, but the times he is quoting come off of the full-size Crew-Cab with the 5.7L V8 and the six-speed automatic.

Chances are that the six-speed is partially responsible for that speed, as GM just won't commit to using the 6L80E yet in the Silverado/Sierra, Ford doesn't have one, and the Ram's six-speed only acts as a five-speed (gears two and three are used individually for up shifts and down shifts respectively).

...I'd guess that if we strapped the 6L80E in the Silverado, we would probably see performance figures similar to that of the Tundra...

30-50 top gear acceleration is way more relevant if you are towing than unloaded 0-60.

Or you could look at 0-60 with 10,000 lbs on the hitch.

Right on the head there. The Toyota barely squeaks ahead of the Silverado in the 30-50 range (3.1 seconds versus 3.5). However, I haven't seen tests of any of the trucks fully-loaded, which indeed would be interesting to hear about. The weight savings of the Silverado makes it an appealing choice, 5582 lbs versus that of 5680 lbs, and is indeed why the Silverado has an extra 200 lbs in payload capacity. Same goes for max towing, the Silverado beating the tundra by 200 lbs again.

...So acceleration aside (unloaded of course), there really isn't much going for the Tundra. Unless you're looking for an armrest that doubles as a filing cabinet, and two glove boxes than can hold a Thermos...

 

[JCE]

I'm going to betray my Nissan love for a ... Ford.


I choose the F-series trucks for the following reasons:

• The King Ranch package has the nicest leather in any sub-$100k European luxury saloon.
• I think its rather comfortable and the driving position feels pretty good.
• The interior is 500% better than those GM and Dodge crap boxes.
• The exterior looks 500% better than the Dodge and 250% better than the GM trucks.
• I don't trust Toyota to build a full size truck yet. I'll wait a year or two until i make my final judgement.
• While I really love the Titan I'm very disappointed that it doesn't have a true "sport" model with some Nismo power improvements from factory.
• I also like the new Tundra but again like the Nissan until I see a "sport" model with some serious power from TRD it will fall behind in 3rd place.

Oh and also most importantly you can get the following in F150 trim...

2007 Saleen F150:

450bhp
500ft.lb of torque

Just too damn cool. Then there's this:

2007 Roush F150:

445bhp
500ft.lb of torque

The only thing even remotely CLOSE to these is the SS Silverado (which is DOA as of right now) and it would get walked by either one of these two.

And as far as the super duty trucks...the 2008 F-Series is just lightyears better than any other super duty truck. I mean for christ sakes it has 650ft.lb of torque AND two turbos! Two turbos on a pickup truck, how tastey. That and it is a MUCH nicer place to be inside. Dodge gets you a max of 610ft.lb of torque while GM gets you a max available 660ft.lb of torque. But I couldn't live with the look of the GM inside or outside with that extra 10ft.lb of torque.

 

[Tornado]

• The King Ranch package has the nicest leather in any sub-$100k European luxury saloon.
• I think its rather comfortable and the driving position feels pretty good.
• The interior is 500% better than those GM and Dodge crap boxes.
• The exterior looks 500% better than the Dodge and 250% better than the GM trucks.
• I don't trust Toyota to build a full size truck yet. I'll wait a year or two until i make my final judgement.
• While I really love the Titan I'm very disappointed that it doesn't have a true "sport" model with some Nismo power improvements from factory.
• I also like the new Tundra but again like the Nissan until I see a "sport" model with some serious power from TRD it will fall behind in 3rd place.

Good points. But they are missing something:

• The F150 is nearly 4 years old.
• The engine is a gutless windbag.
• The F150 is nearly 4 years old.
• The interior is, in fact, total crap compared to the new GMT900s.
• The F150 is nearly 4 years old.

Seriously, the only thing that doesn't outclass the F-150 is the Dodge Ram. It was the best when it was new. When was that?
Oh. Four years ago.

Oh and also most importantly you can get the following in F150 trim...

If I recall correctly, John Lingenfelter will put a 427 Twin Turbo in an S-10 that pulls 10 second quarter mile times. So what is your point?

But I couldn't live with the look of the GM inside or outside with that extra 10ft.lb of torque.

So, you complain about the GMT900 styling (which does look pretty dumb in the Chevy), yet rate the exterior of this ugly thing above it? It looks like it was styled by someone whose never understood the words "restrained design" or "not making cars that look like dump trucks." Even the Dodge isn't that bad.
Otherwise, however, I will agree that it is quite nice.

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

This one looks like it crashed through the wall of a chrome shop.

Fixed that for 'ya.

 

[Joey D]

It wasn't a truck! It didn't have 4WD, or any room in the bed, or an extended cab. It wasn't cheap, and it required - large - performance tires. The Tundra is a truck for the masses that outruns a WRX.

Oh it was to, it was a Trailblazer in old man drag.

 

[skip0110]

Chances are that the six-speed is partially responsible for that speed, as GM just won't commit to using the 6L80E yet in the Silverado/Sierra, Ford doesn't have one, and the Ram's six-speed only acts as a five-speed (gears two and three are used individually for up shifts and down shifts respectively).

...I'd guess that if we strapped the 6L80E in the Silverado, we would probably see performance figures similar to that of the Tundra...

As I understand it, the Mopar 545RE tranny shifts up 1-2-4-5-6, but it may downshift 4-3 or 4-2 depending on circumstances. It won't downshift 3-2 though.

I agree that putting the 6L80 in the Silverado will really make it haul 👍 but I'd expect GM is saving that for a mid-cycle freshening.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm going to betray my Nissan love for a ... Ford.


I choose the F-series trucks for the following reasons:

• The King Ranch package has the nicest leather in any sub-$100k European luxury saloon.
• I think its rather comfortable and the driving position feels pretty good.
• The interior is 500% better than those GM and Dodge crap boxes.
• The exterior looks 500% better than the Dodge and 250% better than the GM trucks.

I'd agree on some points, particularly that the King Ranch interior is surprisingly nice for a pickup interior, but I wouldn't call it better than all of the GMT900 versions available. I believe GMC is willing to sell you a Denali with a greater level of quality and refinement...

On the subject of the exterior, the more recent 'update' of the F150 does make it look nice, but the segment as a whole has moved forward. Toronado is right, it is four years old, and its time for a new truck.
Oh and also most importantly you can get the following in F150 trim...

The only thing even remotely CLOSE to these is the SS Silverado (which is DOA as of right now) and it would get walked by either one of these two.

You can build one yourself for about $44,000 from Ford Racing. The 2007 F-150 FX2 Sport Extreme is Ford's kinda-answer to the death of the Lightning, however, building one of your own does void the warranty.

...I do like the side-pipes and the GT500 wheels...

And as far as the super duty trucks...the 2008 F-Series is just lightyears better than any other super duty truck. I mean for christ sakes it has 650ft.lb of torque AND two turbos! Two turbos on a pickup truck, how tastey. That and it is a MUCH nicer place to be inside. Dodge gets you a max of 610ft.lb of torque while GM gets you a max available 660ft.lb of torque. But I couldn't live with the look of the GM inside or outside with that extra 10ft.lb of torque.

The F250 SuperDuty is an impressively large and outrageous truck, and IMO, is one of the only redeeming models to the Ford F-series line (given how they have pretty much given-up with the F-150). The Ram Cummins is still the gold standard, at least thats the way I see it, but I think most sane folks would go for the Silverado 2500 HD with the Duramax. I know I would...

 

[Joey D]

For a heavy duty truck I would go GM just because of the Allison transmission. I don't think you can break it...well I'm sure you could but under normal heavy duty use I don't think it will break. But I would have to get a diesel. I do like Ford HD's though.

During the summer I work at the City of Auburn Hills working on the roads crew (I'm that guy that turns the sign that says Stop/Slow) but we get to drive heavy duty trucks and there is quite a varied fleet. We have F-250 trucks and F-550 duty trucks (that thing is sweet!), Silverado 2500 and Ram 2500's. The Fords seemed to be the best but they were diesel and I think had something like 600 lb. ft. of torque. The Rams were constantly breaking because they sucked at everything they did, and the Silverados worked but being gas powered they lacked the awesomeness of the Fords.

This is the truck I got stuck driving most of the time...yes that is me in the truck.

And the guy I worked with thought he would see how well it performed