Should Gran Turismo 6 even have AI competition?

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rubber band physics.. is unrealistic but it does the job you always have heat on your tail..
the first two motor-storms were frustrating but always challenging due to this ,they removed it in the last game and the AI sucks ..
at least give us a boost meter 1-10
 
With one of the biggest complaints against GT being lack of ASpec races, I don't think the AI will go away. Look at how good FF11 and FF14 did.....
 
I get a brand new PS3 and a host of new games for Christmas 2010 including GT5 v.1.00. Meanwhile, I'm neck-deep in various other PS2 games including TT and GT4. I continue to keep my head buried in GT4, sure that I'll have a change of DNA if I can master Mission 34. January goes by and I still don't open GT5 (or the PS3) either; still deep in GT4, I'm cruising gaming sites for tips and tricks, and the more I visit game forums, the more I realise that there is a huge wailing and gnashing of teeth about the game. GTPlanet leads the screaming. This almost put me off ever opening GT5. Meanwhile my kids are screaming at me to unpack the PS3 before the warranty runs out.
All hell broke loose on Valentine's Day: the tantrums thrown got so bad, I decided to open up GT5 and give it a spin before the gifters took their gift back to the store.
It was with great reluctance that I shut off my GT4 garage, with its 50M credits, and 700+ fully loaded cars, including 12 Black LM's.
And then the intro video began . . ..
Since then - though I have slowed down in the last month or so - I have ONLY played offline - no DLC's - still v.1.00. I have 1300+ cars and very few missing: a couple of the 20 mil cars and the 2J and 2D. I'm at 36 A-spec, 38 B-spec. Monza, Indy, and the Dream Car C'ship are my bread and butter. The AI have grown with me - smart, savvy and ruthless - they will give me no quarter; it seems like "if P then Q" is their primary algorithm. So with the UCD. Every move I make is recorded, analysed and seems to be fed into the decision-making of the AI - and when I say AI, I don't mean just the driver bots but the entire game engine itself. You misbehave - it punishes you. You excel - it rewards, then challenges you further. At this point - with no online 'goodies' from Kaz, I realise that it's me against Kaz.
He programs well.
One can play strictly offline and long and well.

GT without proper offline A-spec, will turn from the public pissing contest it is (most times) to a lack-lustre social malady. Offline play is a bonus that comes with keeping up the newness of the game with the requirement of an internet connection for DLC's.

Of course I'll buy GT6 when it comes out. After all wouldn't it have all the goodies already tried out? And of course - a brilliant new A-spec.

But, no expectations. Till then . . . I don't even have the ability to save-game. That came from a DLC, right?
 
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No no no no and NO. Online is fine but sometimes I don't want to deal with people and just want to run my own races w/ AI opponents. Give me a more fleshed out A-Spec career mode with tons of racing options (grid size, grid type, opponent selection from aggressive to passive, qualifying, etc etc) More options is better.
 
edited from previous post - unable to enter post to correct: corrected word in caps:

GT without proper offline A-spec, will turn from the public pissing contest it is (most times) to a lack-lustre social malady. ONLINE play is a bonus that comes with keeping up the newness of the game with the requirement of an internet connection for DLC's.
 
I would welcome an online a-spec in gt6 because the current Ai just doesn't offer any competition and I'm frankly fed up of restarting races two or three times with successively slower set ups to make races interesting. I'm at the stage where I only really do time trials and online racing because the challenge just isn't there for me otherwise. Granted the online aspect of gt5 isn't up to the job but that's nothing that cant be changed and developed accordingly.

I think there would need to be a different scoring structure to make an online a-spec more attractive maybe with xp being awarded for different skills such as fastest laps, consistent lap times/sectors and especially minimum contact with other cars. BUT crucially I think xp should be taken away from drivers who have excessive contact for example. There's no penalty for being a Dick online right now and that's wrong. Yes human nature means that sometimes you will be running a great race until some tool punts you into the gravel but that's life and I try not to let it get to me. I find that when you get into a room that's clean and fair its infinitely more rewarding than anything the offline game can offer - I love chasing down a four fifth or even sixth place online and battling to the finish line way more than taking the lead on the last lap of an a-spec race after downgrading my car over and over to try and make the game a challenge and when you win an online race the satisfaction is immense because you know you've probably had to drive your socks off to get that win which sadly isn't really the case offline

Well that's my two pence anyway!
 
As much as I love a good, clean online race, a full-on online-only GT would 100% suck. Reasons? Most of them have been said: Untrustworthy people, the exploitation of "leaderboard cars" (much like in shooters), laggy/horrid connections, different physics, etc.

Even if people behaved and everything was perfect, I still wouldn't like it. Why? Sometimes it's best just to enjoy destroying/battling the AI after a long day at work/school. Also, it's a good benchmark for tuning.

I love GT as it is, and believe an "online only" GT would absolutely throw the series off or be a waste of time in the end. It's a concept made for shooters, not racing games - even if everyone respected each other.

Just keep it the way it is and fix up online and throw in another 50 or more offline events (maybe throw in swapping with Bob in the pits too).
 
PD just need to spend a considerable amount of time on the AI, basically scrap it and start from scratch. Codemasters seem to have got a good grip of it with F1 2011 so there's no reason PD can't do the same but the problem is that they keep trying to tweak and refine their existing AI with every game but in truth it's terrible and it always has been, you can polish a turd but it will still be a turd.
 
my gaming experience on gt5 is purely online. once you taste the feel of a great race against real drivers, you simply cannot go back to old fashion AI train moved by artificial stupidity. once you are a skilled driver you want to challenge other guys to see if you can beat them. i am the host of the room 99% of times and i always have friends in my room so the experience is not only the race, but to spend times having some chat and laugh with your friends, and that is important to me
 
AI and offline Mode are a must Have. They have to do that. Or are you willing to search (lets say....) about an 1 hour to have a great lobby for racing?

Some people out there just wants to interupt the race and crash you.

YES AI ist a must have. But GT needs a much improved AI
I love playing GT5 online. And it is great, but the customer has to choose what he wants and not the developer.

And without AI no 24h races, etc. anymore.

The AI in GT is not competitiv enough, but they have to improved that and make a good and strong AI. Or what is the next point?

Bad Sound why we just cut the sound to make a better experience.... Well no

1) It wouldn´t be a better experience
2) You need to have a choice
3) The developer has to work on negativ points and NOT just cut them.
4) the Community and gametrailers (for example) will not give the game a better grade if they cut the AI.
5) Downtime, PS4 PSN Price for MP?, bad connection, no connection etc. these are all problems if you dont have a offline mode with AI

I dont care about the grade of a game i want to play it and play it my way. I like online play, but 24h races is no option online. So a good AI is a must have.

Beside. GT isnt an MMO and hopefully never be. And some games have a good, strong AI why do you want to cut them? Because PD has a bad AI?

TheeFrogmanlego
rubber band physics.. is unrealistic but it does the job you always have heat on your tail..
the first two motor-storms were frustrating but always challenging due to this ,they removed it in the last game and the AI sucks ..
at least give us a boost meter 1-10
Click to expand...

no. A great and competitiv AI and not a rubber band AI, because they will drive behind you anyway. It just isnt that far away as a "normal and bad" AI.
 
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DaveTheStalker
Until they fix the difference between offline and online handling...I could care less about online.
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This 👍

Online handling sucks :grumpy:... end of the story...

If they made an Online-only game, I wouldn't buy it... :ouch:
 
Nielsen
I'm well aware that the internet is not available to everyone out there but I'm starting to feel that playing against an AI is something that will become a thing of the past. Gran Turismo 5 has provoked this thought as I can't help swearing inside my head everytime I deal with the singleplayer aspect of GT5. However, it's not so bad that I stay away from it but I'll admit that online mulitiplayer is much more rewarding when you play against some decent players. GT5s online multiplayer isn't flawless but somehow it feels so much more true to what made the GT series great in the past. Even the distribution of money and XP in online multiplayer is kept at a level which makes it feel great to buy a new car just like in the old GT games. I'd be radical and say, scrap everything that involves AI competition because Polyphony Digital obviously seem to have a problem with this. Could you imagine a GT game which is built up around an online multiplayer experience which is greatly expanded when it comes to diversity, player stats and community features? For example, what if the UCD was based on a marketplace where players could sell/buy cars from each other instead of the current questionable in-game day cycle? The foundations are there, the servers and leaderboards already form the basis for what many people seem to enjoy more than anything else in the game.

A lot will probably say, just stick with the features you enjoy most and stay away from singleplayer if it gives you a headache. I just think PD could create a much more complete experience if they take a brave move and focus on making online play something so complete that we never want to face an AI competitor again. GT6 is most likely still a few years away and will probably be a next-generation title. However, I'm sure that Sony/PD wouldn't like to loose sales to customers who don't own an internet connection. But those same people still play an unpatched version of vanilla GT5 and have probably lost faith that GT6 would be any better. I personally hate threads where people reveal their vision for a future GT game because our minor influence makes it seem highly irrelevant. My question is just, would the future of GT be brighter without an AI?
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No. AI isn't great, but its good, and who knows they could still improve it. I cant get into online, too much organisation and racing time trials alone wouldn't be enough.
 
I'd like to see an improved AI. But i am hoping their main focus will be on improving the online aspect. Hoping for a more realistic race experience. No more ghost car when someone gets out of control. Full damage always on. Ability to report dirty drivers so PD can review replay. Blown engines if you bang the rev limiter over and over, Cautions, pace car etc.
 
Sorry for this 'wall of text'

@OP
I really like the concept. Its not the racing against the AI that erks me, its the fact that you have to race against only the AI to make a decent amount of money over a certain period of time (AKA grinding), as you make next to nothing for online racing. Take the seasonals for example. You make millions grinding a single event for hours, but do you have fun doing it? No. Why does every single racing game I have ever played get to the point of grinding for hours upon hours, just to get that awesome expensive car. If you take a look back at it, this is what ultimately makes racing games get boring and repetitive. After grinding a few hours, you get into the state of mind that the driving part, the part that was intended to be the fun part of the game has turned into a chore, and the fun part of the game is now the relief of being done grinding and now you have a new car.

Here is my idea: Replace seasonals with what I call "Weekly Focus Races." Here is how it works: When you hold online races with a certain car type or performance level you will make 1000% of the normal payout for online at the end of the race, but for that week only. The regulations change every week. Of course the regulations for these races would be decided by Polyphony. This will increase the competitive edge online so people will race for money, not just pride. It would also increase the different types of racing done in GT5 online, which will help with the problem of not having enough diversity in the cars people have in their garages. Another advantage to this would be an improved ranking system, in which new players strive to be better all around racers and struggle to make money at first, but after playing the game they will improve, make more money, and ultimately have fun playing Gran Turismo.

If you don't understand my idea, here is an example:

PD's message to all of GT6's players: This week's Focus races are GT500 races, 500 PP races, LMP races, and 600 PP races. In each of these races you will recieve 1000% the normal payout for completing this race.

*User clicks the "Focus race" button on the menu and is directed to another menu that looks like seasonals, but instead has a list of that week's focus races. He clicks on one of them and is directed to a list of user made lobbies that are restricted to that car type/performance level. He will have the choice to either make a new lobby that has in which he can not change the car restrictions, but can change other regulations such as driving aids, track selection and such, or he can join an existing room.

Although I would not like to take the single player out of GT, I believe it could play a minimal part in GT just like it does in Call of Duty.

Really, I have millions of ideas. I could go on for hours.
 
Schwartz38
Sorry for this 'wall of text'

@OP
I really like the concept. Its not the racing against the AI that erks me, its the fact that you have to race against only the AI to make a decent amount of money over a certain period of time (AKA grinding), as you make next to nothing for online racing. Take the seasonals for example. You make millions grinding a single event for hours, but do you have fun doing it? No. Why does every single racing game I have ever played get to the point of grinding for hours upon hours, just to get that awesome expensive car. If you take a look back at it, this is what ultimately makes racing games get boring and repetitive. After grinding a few hours, you get into the state of mind that the driving part, the part that was intended to be the fun part of the game has turned into a chore, and the fun part of the game is now the relief of being done grinding and now you have a new car.

Here is my idea: Replace seasonals with what I call "Weekly Focus Races." Here is how it works: When you hold online races with a certain car type or performance level you will make 1000% of the normal payout for online at the end of the race, but for that week only. The regulations change every week. Of course the regulations for these races would be decided by Polyphony. This will increase the competitive edge online so people will race for money, not just pride. It would also increase the different types of racing done in GT5 online, which will help with the problem of not having enough diversity in the cars people have in their garages. Another advantage to this would be an improved ranking system, in which new players strive to be better all around racers and struggle to make money at first, but after playing the game they will improve, make more money, and ultimately have fun playing Gran Turismo.

If you don't understand my idea, here is an example:

PD's message to all of GT6's players: This week's Focus races are GT500 races, 500 PP races, LMP races, and 600 PP races. In each of these races you will recieve 1000% the normal payout for completing this race.

*User clicks the "Focus race" button on the menu and is directed to another menu that looks like seasonals, but instead has a list of that week's focus races. He clicks on one of them and is directed to a list of user made lobbies that are restricted to that car type/performance level. He will have the choice to either make a new lobby that has in which he can not change the car restrictions, but can change other regulations such as driving aids, track selection and such, or he can join an existing room.

Although I would not like to take the single player out of GT, I believe it could play a minimal part in GT just like it does in Call of Duty.

Really, I have millions of ideas. I could go on for hours.
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I like that idea it means you wont get bored of a particular seasonal because you have been grinding.

Fantastic way of diversifying
 
I wan't even more a-spec races like in GT4.
 
BrandonW77
Wow, talk about over-exaggeration. Especially since there are no S2 tires in the game. Presume you mean Sport Medium's? I could agree with RS tires feel like RM's online, but I would also say the online handling characteristics feel more life-like than the offline physics. So, personally, I would have to disagree with your entire argument. But to each his own.

I think GT, or any racing console game, will have AI in it for a long time. But hopefully advances in technology will be able to make the AI better and more like real people. The real problem is with GT's racing philosophy, I would love to race against good AI but would not look forward to more of the current model that forego's qualifying and just gives you a certain number of laps to overtake the whole field. That is not really racing in the sense that most of us would expect.
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Wow new to GT or what? S2 equate to Sport Medium.

My opinion and I'm sticking to it. You keep on living in your fantasy that its all hunky dory.

I have never read a complaint about iRacing having different handling characteristics between practice mode and actual racing. I don't think they would be in business if that were the case?

For the record I despise the AI in GT.
 
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DaveTheStalker
For the record I despise the AI in GT.
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I really don't see the problem with turning aids. :p
 
We need a more competitive AI, period.

A good AI is a must for a racing game, the arcade mode AI strength set up is at least a start in order to get competitive races, but it is not enough yet.
 
Yay, another "online is the future, so lets piss on all those who don't have fast internet or don't exclusively play online" discussion.

Yes, online competition at its best is better than racing bots at its best. Few would deny that. Few would deny that playing online can be incredibly frustrating at times either, for a variety of reasons.

Yes, GT's AI has always and continues to be an embarrassment to the genre, at least in some respects. At GT5's best it is only passable. That doesn't mean we should let them off the hook from improving the AI's driving and customizability. The experience could be much improved from what it is now by simply turning the god-awful parking back off. But we all know it needs far more than just that, and that better is possible.

But until I can at any time instantly begin any length race against a full room of people roughly similar in skill on any track I want in any car class I want with an agreement to all pause at the same time when needed, there will be a need for AI.
 
Maybe the AI doesn't bother me because I think of each event with them as a time trial with rolling chicanes. In order to win you have to navigate the course and maneuver around the rolling chicanes as fast as possible.
 
Yeah, AI in all GT sucked.
I've always liked Codemasters' AI in ToCA 2 Touring Cars from 1998. A bit aggresive, willing to push you out of track as IRL BTCC.
doing mistakes (although sometimes very silly), defending their line. AI wanted to pass each other. Which mistakes came from.
But only on Expert setting.
Even this AI would still need polishing.
Anyone with me ?
 
Online and Offline is a must for me.
Online is good for me.
Offline is also good for me too.

What I ask for is Sony/PD should give us more option/choices.
Humans like Hamilton also do get complains from other drivers. I believe there are more complaints on other drivers too.

Suggestion of mine to PD, give me/us something like, Online Reputation Skill Point which will be based upon your driving characteristics. If you are clean after finishing a race, you get +1 but if you are dirty, points will be deducted.
So, you need to be clean and compile a certain points to race with other equal online drivers.

Just my tots........
 
I think I already said this in another thread. But I would like to see an online career mode added. Still keep the offline one too.

Make the online one different and based on skill. You start racing with karts against people on the same level or close. You then gain xp for winning based on the levels of the opponents. You get more XP from winning against higher leveled players. You can also lose xp if you lose from people with lower levels than you. Gradually work your way up to the faster race classes.
 
ZZ-II
I wan't even more a-spec races like in GT4.
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Me too. Nowhere near enough offline content in GT5.

The big drawback with the proposed online-only career mode is that it becomes unplayable when the game is no longer popular or when the developer decides to shut down support.
 
I see gt5 in the same way i see call of duty.

Offline is cool but online is where the competition is. I play both 99% online. I believe the only way to go forward is to follow cod, and focus on the online gameplay.
 
Offline

Gran Turismo is GT-mode.
GT-Mode equals offline.
Offline equals AI.
AI equals player of any level of ability must be able to win.
Player of any level of ability winning equals big sales.

Simple really.

Online

Online GT-Mode with human opponents equals Aliens only win.
Alien only wins equals normal players never winning.
Normal players never winning equals very low sales/very high returns rate.

Without very high sales, no budget for licencing equals the end of Gran Turismo.

It's much easier to make the AI better and provide a big GT-Mode to existing customers than to lose focus, lose customers and try to find another market.
 
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I'm tired of playing GT offline with their "Catch the mouse" type racing so online racing is a definite must for me. With a good group of drivers you can have some very exciting racing.
 
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