Should Music Piracy Be Illegal?

[TAFJonathan]

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[LoudMusic]

Dude, that's not much of a question. It IS illegal.

~LoudMusic

 

[Jon]

No, it shouldn't be. Why should it? Being it is people still break the law and do it anyway so why not just make the people happy?

 

[vat_man]

So - let me see. If you say 'no', you're saying that it would be okay to take as many copies of a CD as you like, for free.

And that would have exactly what effect on the music industry?

I don't agree with how the music industry is set-up now, in terms of how artists are promoted, and the whole 'big business' aspect of it all - but if there's no money, there's no industry.

 

[Giancarlo]

"No one buys our albums because of music piracy! Boo hoo!"

That's the translated form of what the record companies think. Plus it's B.S. I have WinMX, and a CD burner. I have a 56K, so still buy CD albums. And not very many people have Broadband.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by GCstyle
"No one buys our albums because of music piracy! Boo hoo!"

That's the translated form of what the record companies think. Plus it's B.S. I have WinMX, and a CD burner. I have a 56K, so still buy CD albums. And not very many people have Broadband.

And that's grounds to legalise it?!? You are taking someone's product, and copying it without paying for it.

It doesn't matter if you physically steal the CD from the store or download it from the net - either way you end up with the product illegally - and you stole it.

It's all very well trying to justify it by citing music industry profits - but if you stole a Toyota and tried to justify it by pointing to the profits they make, you'd be laughed at.

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by GCstyle
"No one buys our albums because of music piracy! Boo hoo!"

That's the translated form of what the record companies think. Plus it's B.S. I have WinMX, and a CD burner. I have a 56K, so still buy CD albums. And not very many people have Broadband.

That's a load of crap. Have you been to a college campus in the past three years? They have 100mbit networking going and those kids take full advantage of it. They are also the primary target group of CD album sales. Now they just download all the music from 'the guy down the hall'.

I agree with Vat Man though. I don't like the way it works, but everybody has to get screwed by the suites inorder to make a little money. Here is an article pointing out a few websites that attempted to addressed the issue. Unfortunately none of it took off because the fans are greedy bastards.

http://www.guitarsite.com/newsletters/000522/13.shtml

In my opinion, bands should tour more and sell concert albums AT THE SHOW if they want to sell albums at all. The money is in ticket sales these days.

Dispatch is all about people sharing their music. They make their money performing. They even support bootlegs of their concerts. Hey man, anything to get the word out, right? Cut out the damn marketting people and the suites and you've got a real money maker going!

http://www.dispatchmusic.com/

I support them because they're doing a good thing. May not be the best thing out there, but they're headed in the right direction.

Other off-topic examples of my 'supporting the good things':
Rotary Engine
PS2 (vs XBox)

~LoudMusic

 

[Acid X]

hmm.. well i say no. i mean, like say someone makes something where you can only download a certain amount of mp3s before you have to go out and buy 1 cd, i mean, they would still be making profits

oh, an hdd markets would boom.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by Tazz575
No, it shouldn't be. Why should it? Being it is people still break the law and do it anyway so why not just make the people happy?

So on that logic, people still steal cars even though it's illegal - so why not make that legal and make those people happy?

It's taking other people's work without paying. End of story.

Yes - there are issues with the music industry, and how they charge for CDs and reimburse artists - but that is the bottom line.

Imagine if you wrote a book, and the first person who bought made illegal copies of it and gave it everyone - leaving you with no income from your hard work.

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by gt2_gs
hmm.. well i say no. i mean, like say someone makes something where you can only download a certain amount of mp3s before you have to go out and buy 1 cd, i mean, they would still be making profits

oh, an hdd markets would boom.

All i.......no wait nevermind i can't understand anything you just typed.

And don't you mean ad markets?

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by vat_man
So on that logic, people still steal cars even though it's illegal - so why not make that legal and make those people happy?

It's taking other people's work without paying. End of story.

Yes - there are issues with the music industry, and how they charge for CDs and reimburse artists - but that is the bottom line.

Imagine if you wrote a book, and the first person who bought made illegal copies of it and gave it everyone - leaving you with no income from your hard work.

Stealing a car is a real offense that can make you screwed. MP3 downloading is different. And i don't know about you, but singing isn't really "hard work" to me. Most artists don't even write their own songs.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by GCstyle


Stealing a car is a real offense that can make you screwed. MP3 downloading is different. And i don't know about you, but singing isn't really "hard work" to me. Most artists don't even write their own songs.

Oh, okay - so taking from the songwriters is okay then?

Why is downloading a pirated MP3 different? Is it because there are no tangible goods? So, if you downloaded a pirated game would that be okay?

 

[Acid X]

Originally posted by GCstyle


All i.......no wait nevermind i can't understand anything you just typed.

And don't you mean ad markets?

Lemme rephrase.

1. You download about 40 mp3s
2. You arent allowed to download anymore until you go and buy a cd
3. You enter a barcode # or somethin into somethin..
4. You get to download mp3s again..

Anywho, dumb ideas, from a dumb person.

But if it really wasnt illegal to get mp3s, then the Hard drive market would be blown sky high (in cash!!) due to hard drive space

 

[Jon]

I don't know where I stand on this anymore...

 

[Acid X]

Originally posted by vat_man


Oh, okay - so taking from the songwriters is okay then?

Why is downloading a pirated MP3 different? Is it because there are no tangible goods? So, if you downloaded a pirated game would that be okay?

I have many of em'

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by gt2_gs
hmm.. well i say no. i mean, like say someone makes something where you can only download a certain amount of mp3s before you have to go out and buy 1 cd, i mean, they would still be making profits

oh, an hdd markets would boom.

Well - that's different. Free downloads are completely different - that's not piracy - it's the musical equivalent to freeware.

 

[Acid X]

Originally posted by vat_man


Well - that's different. Free downloads are completely different - that's not piracy - it's the musical equivalent to freeware.

mp3s ARE music piracy man

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by vat_man
Oh, okay - so taking from the songwriters is okay then?

Why is downloading a pirated MP3 different? Is it because there are no tangible goods? So, if you downloaded a pirated game would that be okay?

Because...blah. People will always be using MP3's. Go ahead, ban it! People are still going to have them being downloaded. And each and every person knows that.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by GCstyle


Because...blah. People will always be using MP3's. Go ahead, ban it! People are still going to have them being downloaded. And each and every person knows that.

Because...blah. Fantastic.

It is already banned - people who are doing it are breaching copyright law.

That's no reason to make it legal. You're still infringing on copyright. Nothing you or anyone else in support of making music piracy legal has supported your arguments. Basically your arguments so far have been:
- the music industry's making too much money (no examples given)
- a lot of people are doing it

To gt2_gs - did you actually read the context of what I said? Do not quote me out of context. What you said was (and I quote):
Lemme rephrase.
QUOTE]1. You download about 40 mp3s
2. You arent allowed to download anymore until you go and buy a cd
So - a band might release two or three songs available as free downloads, and that's it until you buy the CD. Yah? Fine - if the songs are publicly available - download them, pass them on, no problem.

But - if you then buy the CD, and then upload it as MP3s for people to download - then we have a problem. That is not publicly available material. You have breached copyright making that available - and people who downloading it are getting something for free that they should be paying for. That is theft.

Have you actually read any of the fine print in the booklets that come with your CDs? Or does your scanner not read that fine?

 

[vat_man]

The misunderstanding here is that many of you seem to think that once you purchase material you are free to do what you want with it.

This is not the case. Read the fine print in your CD labels and booklets.

 

[space]

Somebody's gotta buy the cd to rip it in the firstplace

Face it there's no way to stop it. If they make it illegal to download mp3's, people will borrow friends CD's to rip.

So the music industry makes a rip proof CD(simliar to Sony's MOD Chip proof CD. All that was needed was a gameshark code to get around this, even then they made a stealth MOD chip to get around it). People hack the CD and create a program that rips the rip-proof CD

So the indusrty further encrypts the CD. so People rip the CD through their stereo.

And so on and so on...

They can't do anything about it. All they can do now is just start making everything a pay service, and that won't even work 100%

 

[vat_man]

Well, that is not a reason to legalise it, and I have not heard one reason to legalise it.

It is this sort of spurious reasoning that has lead to the absurdity of the DVD region system.

 

[space]

One more point, it really shouldnt be about the money to the artists. Sure its a benifit to them, but they should be more intrested in what people think of their music, and how people like it.

This is what happened to Metallica. They found out that they were not getting their cash. Sure they have millions of dollars, but they want every little penny they can squeze otta us.

 

[space]

Originally posted by vat_man
Well, that is not a reason to legalise it, and I have not heard one reason to legalise it.

It is this sort of spurious reasoning that has lead to the absurdity of the DVD region system.

I'm not saying legalize it, i'm just saying theres no way to stop it.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by space
One more point, it really shouldnt be about the money to the artists. Sure its a benifit to them, but they should be more intrested in what people think of their music, and how people like it.

This is what happened to Metallica. They found out that they were not getting their cash. Sure they have millions of dollars, but they want every little penny they can squeze otta us.

Hang on - you're trying to justify stealing music, and you have the hide to lecture the music industry on morality?!? How does that work?!?!

 

[space]

Originally posted by vat_man


Hang on - you're trying to justify stealing music, and you have the hide to lecture the music industry on morality?!? How does that work?!?!

Where'd i say i was justifing it?

 

[Schumy]

Originally posted by vat_man


Because...blah. Fantastic.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by space


Where'd i say i was justifing it?

You didn't - sorry.

 

[space]

Originally posted by vat_man


You didn't - sorry.

No prob

I'm a fence walker on this issue. Both sides have points, some good some bad.

So another question...

At what point does it become illegal?

When you get the music from someone you dont know?(i'd say this is illegal)

Or does is illegal when you dont have the orginal CD.
EX.- most of my music comes from my direct family.(mom, dad, brother) Since i dont directly the CD is it illegal?(to me this is not illegal, but rather perfectly fine.

What about music from DVD's movies, games, etc...

Since the Movie, game etc. payed for the rights to get the song in the movie etc.., and you payed for the movie or whatever the media was, technically(as i see it) you have the right to own a copy of that song.

What about live recordings that are never released? Covers that are never released? remix? bootlegs? the list goes on...

 

[LoudMusic]

You know what. I'm not mad at any of you. I mad at your parents for raising you to believe that theft of art is illegal.

Some points:

• "Mp3s" are not illegal. "Mp3" is a file format for compressing audio into smaller files.
  
• The majority, but not all, music that is recorded on a CD by a musical artist is copyrighten.
  
• If you download an Mp3 of an audio track from a CD that is copywriten by an artist or a music label you are breaking the copyright and therefore are breaking the law.

Now all you have to do to make me happy is to admit that you are breaking the law. I'll leave you alone at that point. I did it. I had roughly 36GB of mp3s from albums that I did not, and do not own. I deleted them all and started purchasing the albums that I like.

~LoudMusic