Should PD team up???

[Samus]

Forza:

-Absolutely no changes to the track surface, EVER.

-Every lap is hot-lap.

-"banned from servers" for livery editor = nudity, violence, hatred, etc.

-General lunatic community of non-brakers, rage quitters, and porno-makers

Ah you never fail to crack me up.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Forza:

-Absolutely no changes to the track surface, EVER.

Wrong (in FM4, obviously even more so in Horizon, which I'll not count).

-Every lap is hot-lap.

Er, what?

-"banned from servers" for livery editor = nudity, violence, hatred, etc.

Just as you can be in games on PS3 that allow similar sorts of creativity (LBP, MNR, etc). I'm not sure what's wrong with Sony (or Microsoft) wanting a certain level of decency upheld on their servers.

-General lunatic community of non-brakers, rage quitters, and porno-makers

Playing GT5, FM4, or any console racer with the unwashed masses will be a trial of frustration, there's no difference. That's why communities like this are so helpful, in finding other people to race against who aren't completely awful. I've played both extensively in public rooms and if anything, I've found Forza to have more consistent players. Perhaps it's one of the benefits of it's smaller installed fanbase.

...

In regards to the thread topic; I don't think its necessary (or very likely), but I do think some sort of change needs to happen at PD. My one exception is if they do another portable game similar to GTPSP; at that point, absolutely get another team to do the work with PD's permission and assets; let them focus on GT6 instead.

 

[McLaren]

+1 ... No one has a take on racing like PD.

SMS proved that one wrong. As far as I've seen, Shift 2 captured the atmosphere perfectly that comes from racing a car on a track.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Actually, I'll agree with Mitch; mostly because PD's take on "racing" is actually pretty poor. Driving is a whole other ball game, of course, but there's a vast selection of games out there that do the "racing" bit better.

 

[Adam41]

Completely agree Slip. I've shared that view for a while.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Actually, I'll agree with Mitch; mostly because PD's take on "racing" is actually pretty poor. Driving is a whole other ball game, of course, but there's a vast selection of games out there that do the "racing" bit better.

Yep.. Didn't say PD made the best racing game, nor does it have the best atmospheric setup. There is just a certain feel that GT5 has that in my opinion, is unmatched.. Not even saying I'm right about it

Just an opinion (Therefore not claiming it as fact)

 

[dylpro]

Huh? I was replying to that statement by Mitch.

Doesn't matter. It's still all a matter of opinion in what you're trying to say.

 

[Samus]

Doesn't matter. It's still all a matter of opinion in what you're trying to say.

Sorry, you've lost me. Was it because I didn't add 'in my opinion' on the end of what I said? I thought that was a given seems it's obviously not possible to factually say someone has a better handle on racing games. So yes if that helps, in my opinion that statement is wrong.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Highly, highly debatable. In fact I'd just be blunt and say you're wrong in that statement.

You're awesome bud

 

[Samus]

Thanks. Although I guess in a way you're right, nobody does have a take on racing quite like PD do but I don't imagine you meant it in a negative way.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Thanks. Although I guess in a way you're right, nobody does have a take on racing quite like PD do but I don't imagine you meant it in a negative way.

You're right I was completely bashing PD, because me - much like many people, are afraid to give Polyphony Digital credit for anything:tup:

 

[adam46]

PD + SimBin working on a console game would be my heaven...

PD's massive licensing contact book and SimBin's GT Racing focus

 

[maxpontiac]

Why should they? 9 million people bought GT5 and while a a few thousand or so people may not be happy, PDI does an excellent job.

Sure the entire game isn't perfect but it is hardly the flop that the OP suggests.

 

[Nielsen]

The problem could be that Sony seems to care more about GT's strenght as a brand than it's quality as a game. A co-developer is not the answer.

 

[TexasTyme214]

If I had to pick another company, it'd be one of the Formula 1 teams since they have access to high quality simulators for the drivers to practice on. PD doesn't need to team up with anyone, but they do need more people in order to work faster.

 

[Tornado]

One's the leader of a world renown software development company. One's the leader of a worldwide conglomerate. Together, they fight crime.



Kaz & Kaz

Tuesdays @ 8 PM EST.

 

[Samus]

It's Gran Turismo. Graaaaaaaan Tuuuuurismoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[thelvynau]

Id pd teamed up with another developer I dont think it will work.

The way I see it gt will lose its identity.

 

[braunracing88]

How about one huge collaborative game?


I know, iRacing, GT5, TOCA, rFactor [2?], Richard Burns Rally, and, well, basically every single "good game" made, all have different programming codes, but, GT5 has lots of cars. iRacing has decent physics, cautions, flags, and dedicated start procedures that feel real. Richard Burns Rally has what every rally game should have. TOCA has an interesting career mode. Forza has good car customization.


But, each of those has each others' flaws:

iRacing:

-daunting Photoshop work taking, generally, hours OR simple three colour liveries

-Never, ever changing tracks

-No atmosphere (no rain, no clouds moving, no debris, no oil spills...)

GT5:

-no livery editor, just a general paint car/rims

-limited amount of depth in racing (cautions)

-Artificial [lack of] intelligence that can't keep up with fast drivers and gives up easy

-rally stages that don't do much (not many fun turns), with only somewhat decent rally physics

Forza:

-Absolutely no changes to the track surface, EVER.

-Every lap is hot-lap.

-"banned from servers" for livery editor = nudity, violence, hatred, etc.

-General lunatic community of non-brakers, rage quitters, and porno-makers

TOCA:

-Doesn't graphically compare to GT5 anymore

-physics aren't as good as iRacing's physics



But, with GT5 surfaces and renderings (shiny, metallic, occasionally very 3D,) iRacing physics, GT5 rallying/endurance/night-to-day transitions/weather, GT5 pit strategy, Forza livery editor, and TOCA AI/career mode, you've got the best game, for either PC or console.


GT5 proves that the graphics are possible.
iRacing, rFactor, and a few other PC games proves that the physics are possible.
TOCA proved that good AI was possible.


Need I continue?


All we want for GT5, or GT6, I imagine, is:

-Moar of GT5 (cars, tracks,)
-livery editors
-Further adjustable AI (meaning that they can be set to go faster/slower)
-true racing environments (every lap is different)
-physics (especially wet physics) that actually work
-Weather that happens instantly (downpours, puddles, rivers), and isn't some hurricane that pours all of the way across the Nürburgring.
-Well-implemented (and optional!!) cautions, to aid in breaking the monotony, and giving us a break from the improved/faster AI.

That sixth one in line you listed would be quite brilliant. Especially if it could replicate a situation where it was raining hard at one end and bone dry at the other at places like Nürburgring, Le Mans, Spa, Suzuka, etc. I also think it would be cool to have changing weather and time available for Daytona Road Course, so we could have the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona in it. And it would be mega-awesome to have an endurance championship in the vain of say, the WEC or the pre-GT3 era FIA GT championship.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

That sixth one in line you listed would be quite brilliant. Especially if it could replicate a situation where it was raining hard at one end and bone dry at the other at places like Nürburgring, Le Mans, Spa, Suzuka, etc. I also think it would be cool to have changing weather and time available for Daytona Road Course, so we could have the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona in it. And it would be mega-awesome to have an endurance championship in the vain of say, the WEC or the pre-GT3 era FIA GT championship.

This is the true reasoning behind it. Asides from iRacing, (which doesn't offer much for weather, yet,) no game offers a true immersion into racing, and even iRacing's lower class categories have shorter races with very varying skill levels.


My point is, there's a huge hole in the Motorsports Sim market, for those who want the absolute best realism. rFactor 2, Assetto Corse etc. are looking to change that, but, until I see a game with a track like Bathurst, where it's raining on one end, and dry at the other, I'm not sold, on the truly visceral experience of racing.

I remember being in a kart race, (yes, a race - every practice session, and qualifying, was dry, and the race was soaked) not having a clue about the grip in Turn 1. Then, several guys in front spun, in T 2, and I had to avoid. Somehow, I came out in second. But, the weather slowed down our lap times so much, the track was getting dark; no one thought it was going to rain that much, so they didn't prepare the track lights. It got to the point that I couldn't see, at all! I actually shunted the leader off-track, entirely by accident, because I couldn't see him, and he slowed down on the straightaway.


Imagine how delighted I was, to get out, after that, having won! That, friends, is the feeling that I'm missing from every racing game/simulation I play. The "some things go wrong" aspect. The "I can't see a thing, I'm driving on a wet track with slick, dry tires, without any tread, and I'm bashing into things I can't even see!" aspect. Where is it?


Then there's the aspect of tire choice, for something like this:




"The clouds look a bit patchy, the track could be dry in a few laps."

So which tires do I use? I don't want to have to pit twice! I need to keep this very heavy car in motion! I can't afford to make two or three extra pit stops, for weather-choices. No, I need to get the strategy right.


Every game just seems like hot-lapping. iRacing, even, doesn't reward anything but consistent, fast, clean laps, really. Not yet. Not until they put weather in.


So, does PD want to fill this portion of the gap? With rain at one end of the track, and dry track at the other end? With tire strategies affecting the entire race? (this is something GT5 did rather well, comparatively) What about with suspensions that can be damaged for attacking a curb too much? What about sudden downpours that reduce the grip to next-to-nothing, at the end of a high-speed straightaway? Oil leaks? Cautions? Red flags?

 

[Haskii]

I drive on the streets and on GT5, the graphics in my opinion are very good. At the end of the day, it's a game, some people forget that. When I'm in my R34 in gt5, supposed to be 797bhp. I'd be flat out at 200mph and it feels the same as 120mph in real life. My own R34 in real life is 620bhp on low boost and when I foot it, still puts you in your seat! No matter what the g-force of the car in GT5, your seat position stays the same. Sound/graphics are great 👍

 

[Jawehawk]

My answer would be Dice who work with EA on that Battlefield games. If PD team up with Dice GT would have amazing graphics.

Really?

Dice would just add all kinds of ridicules perks to the game. You must use this car for 2 minutes to unlock all 4 wheels. Then use it for a further 10 minutes to unlock a better steering wheel. They are utterly incompetent at making games, not to mentionen balancing said games.

Graphics wise, it depends on what you're comparing it to. Sure, BF3 had amazing graphics in the Single Player missions where the player did close to nothing. Like the ones in the F18. Compared to the regular boring SP missions, the graphic aren't all that much better than any other modern shooter.

And in any case, other than the standard cars, the graphics in GT5 is hardly a serious problem.

And how can a game that has sold more than 9.19 million copies be considered a flop? That's a huge finiancial succes right there. Of course sales don't neccesarily make for a good game. But none of the problems GT5 has, can be solved by the likes of companies who have no experience with racing sims.

PD just needs to listen to their fanbase (something they have been showing a huge improvement on btw), and perhaps take some cues from other high-end racing games like Project Cars or Forza 4. Maybe even take a look at I-Racing.

 

[DGXR]

Bungie

 

[sporkface69]

long postin'

+1. I want a true simulaton over everything and that's what will make GT6 fun. Take a complete 180 from GT5's lack of.... everything. It's not a sim, not arcade, just mindless boredom. That might be a little harsh but PD really need to step up they're game.

 

[Doodle]

I'd rather have PD not team up with anyone, but if they did, I would want Turn 10 to team with them.

 

[sonicfreak92]

When I mean flop I'm not talking about sales figures for 2 years. I'm mor like what GT5 COULD have been like all those finding Sorg found and the standard cars. There was no need for standard cars at all. If sony wasn't butthurt that GT5 wasn't a PS3 launch and nearly cut PD from funding than we would have a better game than what it is but to me it feels broken.

 

[Samus]

When I mean flop I'm not talking about sales figures for 2 years. I'm mor like what GT5 COULD have been like all those finding Sorg found and the standard cars. There was no need for standard cars at all. If sony wasn't butthurt that GT5 wasn't a PS3 launch and nearly cut PD from funding than we would have a better game than what it is but to me it feels broken.

Say what now?

 

[thelvynau]

When I mean flop I'm not talking about sales figures for 2 years. I'm mor like what GT5 COULD have been like all those finding Sorg found and the standard cars. There was no need for standard cars at all. If sony wasn't butthurt that GT5 wasn't a PS3 launch and nearly cut PD from funding than we would have a better game than what it is but to me it feels broken.

Pd got thier budget cut?

Where did you read that?

 

[Jawehawk]

When I mean flop I'm not talking about sales figures for 2 years. I'm mor like what GT5 COULD have been like all those finding Sorg found and the standard cars. There was no need for standard cars at all. If sony wasn't butthurt that GT5 wasn't a PS3 launch and nearly cut PD from funding than we would have a better game than what it is but to me it feels broken.

You need to do some reading, as you clearly have your facts wrong. GT5 is one of the most expensive games ever made, costing more than 60 million dollars.
Sorg really hasn't found a whole lot that was worth anything. And if the standard cars weren't in the game, you'd just have the premium ones, and nothing more. Nothing would be gained from not having the standard cars in the game.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I'd rather have PD not team up with anyone, but if they did, I would want Turn 10 to team with them.

Hey doodle. Long time since the track day a few days ago.

The problem with this is, as I see it, that T10 doesn't do any physics but dry tracks and (poorly) some very poorly done dirt in Forza Horizons. No thanks. We need something to snag everyone; flag rules, dirt, snow, rain, oil spills, real damage... Somethings that snag the sim racers, but, we can maintain the options not to use flag rules, dirt, snow, rain, oil spills, real damage, and pit strategy just the same.

Point is, why not try to make a more realistic game, with cautions, and debris and things that happen that you can't expect?

+1. I want a true simulaton over everything and that's what will make GT6 fun. Take a complete 180 from GT5's lack of.... everything. It's not a sim, not arcade, just mindless boredom. That might be a little harsh but PD really need to step up they're game.

This is a good point. It's not like Need for Speed (full throttle through every corner, person who wins holds the throttle the longest, drifting around every corner,) but it's nowhere near a sim racing's quality level.

Thing is, while iRacing gives penalties that you wouldn't get in real life ("you spun? Oh, good, you can also have a black flag for cutting the track.") and GT5 gives unrealistic "stop accelerating" penalties, there's no middle ground.