Should Polyphony Digital and Sony Start Banning Consistently Dirty Drivers From F.I.A. Events?

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[EDIT FROM PAGE TWO: Can we keep the aggressive nouns to a minimum please? I used the word "cheaters" once, sorry, and I've seen some other nouns and don't wish this thread to be deleted. There are a lot of good ideas on here from everyone and if we keep at it, maybe we'll come up with a system the entire community could get behind and possibly get in game. One of the many reasons I joined GT Planet but mainly for clean endurance racing. =) Please and thank you.]

[Original Starting Post Below]


Personally, I think they should. It is completely unfair to the people who are doing all they can to reach the professional levels of competition in a clean and fair manner. Recently my DR and SR were destroyed by intentionally dirty drivers in Round 4 and 5 of Season 4's Manufacturer Series as well as in the Daily races. No matter how clean I was, no one seemed to return the kindness this week.

If they do not start banning players using unfair tactics, then the long awaited Digital License should be implemented. There was talk of a Digital License before the game was released and I was thinking it should be implemented. Such a license would help. By making it similar to the older S license tests, the elite tests, and increasing the difficulty of the tests, it would separate the every day "for fun" players from the serious sim drivers who are trying to make it into their Regional Finals and ultimately the World Finals.

Do I think there should be other requirements? Yes.

Some examples would be having to achieve gold ratings in all Campaign Mode categories and Track Experiences. I think there should also be a requirement to maintain at least an SR rating of A though I would prefer it to be S. Maybe having to watch the Driving Etiquette video after an SR downgrade. The last thought is should the Digital License be priced? I'm unsure of this one, kind of on the fence. Yes because it would bring out those truly serious about competing cleanly and fairly. Also, with F.I.A. being involved, maybe a paid for Digital License could somehow help those wishing to obtain real world competition licenses get their foot in the door more easily. But no because maybe not everyone who is serious about competition could afford it if the price was set around the price hinted at before the games release which was around $300 USD.

I'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on the matter as GT Sport seems to be the leading eSport racing game for console players. Not everyone can afford an insanely powerful gaming PC, direct drive wheels and other things used for the more in depth simulators like iRacing. GT Sport compared to PC simulators, in my opinion, is becoming the next best thing. You don't have to pay money for individual cars, tracks or even to enter certain race events unlike iRacing. Not dogging iRacing, it's great but I sure as heck can't afford it.
 
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If they do not start banning players using unfair tactics, then the long awaited Digital License should be implemented. There was talk of a Digital License before the game was released and I was thinking it should be implemented. Such a license would help.
That's not what the Digital Licence is.

It's a scheme by which regional motoring clubs in the real world recognise your knowledge of racing etiquette (flag rules, racing line, etc.) from Gran Turismo as qualification for a motorsports licence in lieu of a written test.
 
I think there should be a separate Sportsmanship graph system, in the style of GTS's mileage graph, that shows all the times when a player's SR rating has gone down (and up) and possibly the reason or judgement that led to that decrease. We've seen that GTS is coded to give varying severities of time penalties and SR points deducted based on how bad certain incidents have been, so maybe that could be recorded into a more observable and reusable form. It could probably be branded as Incident Frequency/Severity, and those with a high enough frequency/severity wouldn't be allowed to join events like the Daily Races or even the Manufacturer and Nations Cups. Those who are good enough after a sizeable amount of races would have their Severity level lowered, just like the other ratings. I know it pretty much does exactly what the SR rating should do but in a more one-sided approach, and there is already the option for SR limiting in the lobbies, assuming that could theoretically be used in the FIA races too. There are also the problem of the chain-reaction crashes that are currently a flaw of the SR system and probably would be in this I.F/S system too; punishing drivers for being part of the crash rather than intentionally causing it.
 
Personally, I think they should. It is completely unfair to the people who are doing all they can to reach the professional levels of competition in a clean and fair manner. Recently my DR and SR were destroyed by intentionally dirty drivers in Round 4 and 5 of Season 4's Manufacturer Series as well as in the Daily races. No matter how clean I was, no one seemed to return the kindness this week.

If they do not start banning players using unfair tactics, then the long awaited Digital License should be implemented. There was talk of a Digital License before the game was released and I was thinking it should be implemented. Such a license would help. By making it similar to the older S license tests, the elite tests, and increasing the difficulty of the tests, it would separate the every day "for fun" players from the serious sim drivers who are trying to make it into their Regional Finals and ultimately the World Finals.

Do I think there should be other requirements? Yes.

Some examples would be having to achieve gold ratings in all Campaign Mode categories and Track Experiences. I think there should also be a requirement to maintain at least an SR rating of A though I would prefer it to be S. Maybe having to watch the Driving Etiquette video after an SR downgrade. The last thought is should the Digital License be priced? I'm unsure of this one, kind of on the fence. Yes because it would bring out those truly serious about competing cleanly and fairly. Also, with F.I.A. being involved, maybe a paid for Digital License could somehow help those wishing to obtain real world competition licenses get their foot in the door more easily. But no because maybe not everyone who is serious about competition could afford it if the price was set around the price hinted at before the games release which was around $300 USD.

I'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on the matter as GT Sport seems to be the leading eSport racing game for console players. Not everyone can afford an insanely powerful gaming PC, direct drive wheels and other things used for the more in depth simulators like iRacing. GT Sport compared to PC simulators, in my opinion, is becoming the next best thing. You don't have to pay money for individual cars, tracks or even to enter certain race events unlike iRacing. Not dogging iRacing, it's great but I sure as heck can't afford it.

This is what happens when they do their best to equalise everybody's driving under the banner of "driving is for all" by forcing everyone to use easy to drive cars, enforcing intrusive ABS in order to be competitive, banning adjustable settings, and allowing any assist you like. There is very little to encourage disciplined driving because GTS is awash with safety nets. Weakness breeds even more weakness.
 
Over a year later and I’m still convinced that PD wants to appease a seemingly large % of their player base who are griefers.

What else explanation is there for not ghosting a stupid @$&&&# who rams you with a speed differential of 240kmh?
 
That's not what the Digital Licence is.

It's a scheme by which regional motoring clubs in the real world recognise your knowledge of racing etiquette (flag rules, racing line, etc.) from Gran Turismo as qualification for a motorsports licence in lieu of a written test.

Thank you for explaining. I was trying to think of ways where the license could be implemented in game and a series of in game requirements would have to constantly be meet. However, I wouldn't be opposed to going to my local track and being instructed on real world etiquette flag rules. Currently the flag system in GT Sport is lacking in some areas. For example, Caution Flags. I was thinking that there should be something similar to the electronic restriction system used in F.I.A. and W.E.C. events where cars are intentionally slowed by some form of race control. The Blue Flag system seems to work as its up to the slower car to yield to the faster cars but the only thing the Caution Flags do is try to prevent passing and penalizes anyone who passes under caution. It doesn't stop anyone from flying full pace through a wreck. A good example of this is the 2018 12 Hours of Bathurst at Mt. Panorama. Two cars got together on top of the mountain and an AMG Merc came around the curve at full pace and the incident that followed completely suspended the race with roughly 12 minutes left due to the amount of track debris. Also, the addition of a Black Flag for people who have made multiple intentional contacts would be good in my opinion. They can choose to sit in the Pit for the rest of the race and get a DNF with less of a hit to their ratings or they could ignore it, get kicked by the server after so many laps of ignoring it and suffer a more severe rating loose for it. This seems more real world to me.

I think there should be a separate Sportsmanship graph system, in the style of GTS's mileage graph, that shows all the times when a player's SR rating has gone down (and up) and possibly the reason or judgement that led to that decrease. We've seen that GTS is coded to give varying severities of time penalties and SR points deducted based on how bad certain incidents have been, so maybe that could be recorded into a more observable and reusable form. It could probably be branded as Incident Frequency/Severity, and those with a high enough frequency/severity wouldn't be allowed to join events like the Daily Races or even the Manufacturer and Nations Cups. Those who are good enough after a sizeable amount of races would have their Severity level lowered, just like the other ratings. I know it pretty much does exactly what the SR rating should do but in a more one-sided approach, and there is already the option for SR limiting in the lobbies, assuming that could theoretically be used in the FIA races too. There are also the problem of the chain-reaction crashes that are currently a flaw of the SR system and probably would be in this I.F/S system too; punishing drivers for being part of the crash rather than intentionally causing it.

I like those ideas. Very good.

This is what happens when they do their best to equalise everybody's driving under the banner of "driving is for all" by forcing everyone to use easy to drive cars, enforcing intrusive ABS in order to be competitive, banning adjustable settings, and allowing any assist you like. There is very little to encourage disciplined driving because GTS is awash with safety nets. Weakness breeds even more weakness.

Gran Turismo has always tried to make driving in virtual reality something everyone can do. It's a video game rated E for everyone. I don't think they should change that but serious competitors who dream of making the World Final's should somehow be registered and slightly separated from the everyday player who isn't concerned about their ratings so much as having fun playing a video game. With Gran Turismo becoming an officially licensed eSport, something should be done to create an even better racing experience for all players.
 
I think banning certain accounts from participating in FIA events would just cause alt accounts to become more of a problem.

What would be interesting is putting consistently bad drivers in their own secret rooms reserved for their types.
 
Problem is all you need to enter is another email address and a new account.
I like the requirement(s) idea, making it near impossible for someone to get banned and simply create another name to enter the next round.
I've also been stating since the beta: Host 2 lobbies, one for the wreckers with no damage and one for those who would like to race. A simple copy/paste with a radio button for damage should not be THAT difficult to code.
Just my 2¢
 
Hard when they need to make a hands free system. Something they don't have to oversee or make judgement calls on as seriously doubt they would review all events to "make a call" where often track situations are complex not so simple

They've had trouble doing this in real life over the years let alone video games. Prost & Senna or Scheumacher and Hill come to mind as controversial incidents deciding world championships...
 
Honestly, I don’t get it. In a real race when a car hits a fence or smashes into someone or the like it is more than likely it’s game over and off to the back parking lot of the pits. Why can’t they make it KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) and not just penalize or ghost them back into the race, but put them out of the race, destroy their car, and offer it for resale as is with no warranty.
 
Honestly, I don’t get it. In a real race when a car hits a fence or smashes into someone or the like it is more than likely it’s game over and off to the back parking lot of the pits. Why can’t they make it KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) and not just penalize or ghost them back into the race, but put them out of the race, destroy their car, and offer it for resale as is with no warranty.
I think because maybe its still a video game that is for newbs too, not everybody has a wheel and some are just way better than others. I know FIA is more serious but they want people and many of them to participate.

maybe more focus on the match making system to keep like minded drivers together

Hopefully they leave 2 games live when they drop GT7, keep Sport for the hard core FiA racers and GT7 for those looking for a fun video game
 
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I'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on the matter as GT Sport seems to be the leading eSport racing game for console players.

It's a lot harder to actually ban someone on PSN than it is on something like iRacing. A ban on iRacing loses you all your content, which unless you're at the very lowest levels is a significant amount of money. A ban on PSN simply means you make a new account.

There are ways around this, like banning by console or banning the entire PS Plus account, both of which have the potential for collateral damage in terms of other players in that household who have done nothing wrong. The public backlash likely wouldn't be worth it.

Because of the design of PSN, bans basically don't work. They could choose to have a minimum driver rating to enter the FIA events, but that sort of goes against their "everyone can have a go" mentality. Some people are legitimately bad drivers. Don't ascribe to malice that which is adequately described by incompetence.

The only thing I see working is what MOBAs and the like do with toxic people and dumping them into their own room. It might be possible to identify in software the difference between people who suck and those who are actively griefing. Other games have certainly tried, with mixed success. Separating those players until they demonstrate the desired behaviours is one way of keeping them from affected the "true" game experience too much.

Then again, it's online gaming. These sort of people can and will exist. I'd rather see game design being used to limit people's ability to play the game "wrongly" rather than simply expecting people to be all sunshine and roses to each other. It's a competitive environment. If you let people ram each other to win, then they're going to do so and it seems silly to expect them not to just because "gentlemen's honour" dictates that you shouldn't.
 
On ps2 if you got banned on socom it was the disc that got banned forcing people to buy another copy.
This could be implemented on digital downloads. You’ve got to be pretty determined troll to buy another copy.
Or is I stated shadow ban people, both arrangements would work. You’re welcome.

This is aimed at the post above.
 
I think banning certain accounts from participating in FIA events would just cause alt accounts to become more of a problem.

What would be interesting is putting consistently bad drivers in their own secret rooms reserved for their types.
This is a good idea , observe them and put them in there own room where they can go totally loos in the way they like to drive .
 
Guys are going a little intense. End of day its a video game they bought, if you have a problem I guess the best option is not to play or just avoid the havok cars. I have an S SR rank and its pretty easy to maintain so far even in races I take penalties from other drivers causing carnage hitting me. I actually lost my S earlier in a nasty punting where I got mangled on the inside sending me into the wall. I just finish my race best I can and the next race I took another penalty on somebody else fault but got my S back. I drove really clean and moved up 2 spots to finish 4th on the next race. I would of finished better not for the bogus penalty but finishing as I did got my S so its a win for me. Seems running really good lines is great for SR finishing position I dont think matters

This is a good idea , observe them and put them in there own room where they can go totally loos in the way they like to drive .

Yeah sort it out in the match making system, don't have to make a room for them, the system should sort you out
 
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@K3Tuning I believe the problem is when you drop back a bit farther because of whatever reason, it is far more difficult to have clean races.
If you are S sportsmanship rating you have a cushion of 20 points. if you are B it is 10. I'd imagine always racing in the S lobby there is minimal contact and you can actually play the game in most cases. Easy to stay in that 20 point window even if you do encounter the occasional incident.
New drivers are EB. 5 races or so earns you D driver rating. When you are a B rating or even a lower A, you start getting matched with the "new drivers" very regularly. Most incidents you receive a sportsmanship reduction for contact even if you did not initiate it so it's near impossible to run a clean race. When you don't qualify to start in the rear of the field and try to work up they block / ram or whatever it takes to keep you behind them. If they do let you pass, it's normally because they want to dive bomb you in the next corner to take you out. Granted there are some new on the track and you just wait for a few turns for them to leave the track on their own. Passing is near impossible on a lot of tracks so you lose DR for finishing toward the back of the pack, on top of losing the SR. Doesn't take long to get matched with more of them because your DR drops even if you are gaining back SR. Then, if you qualify and start up front, you have corner X that you are being punted from behind so you still have to try to work through the field AND it causes SR reduction because - who knows. There are few races I will run because of the problems.

Yes it's a video game, but I guess my point is if they are going to promote this as a real driving experience they should take the idiots out of the mix. I would guess it's near impossible to have a fool proof penalty or matching system no matter how much you tweak it. Easiest solution is give them their own "dirty" lobby. That would probably get rid of half the problem.
I still like the second lobby idea though, when I choose "Race A" I go to another screen asking me if I want Race 1A with no damage or Race 2A with heavy damage, or simply have both selections on the first screen. Leave the latter locked for new drivers. After you reach - enter whatever achievement here - the second selection becomes available. They already do this with the "Top 24" in Sport mode, and in the Driving School section also. Driving school would be a great way to earn the right to race with damage. The coding needed to make that happen should be minimal, and not many are going to spend an hour or whatever in driving school every time a new account is created just to enter a few races before being kicked again.
 
On ps2 if you got banned on socom it was the disc that got banned forcing people to buy another copy.
This could be implemented on digital downloads. You’ve got to be pretty determined troll to buy another copy.

On PS2? That was a long time ago, before online console gaming was really a thing. I'd hesitate before taking hints from an online game that old.

It's an option, but a fairly drastic one. It's in the same boat as banning by console or PS Plus, but if anything less effective. I think before you started doing any of those options you'd want to communicate first what was a bannable offense quite clearly. Perhaps establish a range of warnings and temporary bans before perma-banning their disc.

People get instant perma-banned for hacking in stuff like Overwatch, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about "dirty" driving, which has a pretty large range depending on who you talk to. Some of these players may legitimately think that what they're doing is legit, and some may simply lack the car control to do better.

I was playing a little Forza online tonight, and while there were a few taps that I thought were probably intentional, I'd say that the vast majority of contact was not. Most people just aren't really that good at driving games. Should they get a ban for that? I'd say probably not, but you may disagree.

Or is I stated shadow ban people, both arrangements would work.

Shadow banning means what exactly in this particular circumstance? They can race but they're a permanent ghost?

People are going to notice if they can't interact fairly quickly. Shadow bans work on social media because it's not immediately apparent to the user that they're not visible to other people. It's going to be pretty obvious in a game.

This is aimed at the post above.

You can push the "reply" button in the bottom right corner of the post, and it will quote it for you to reply to. It will also notify the person you quoted that you've replied to their post.

@K3Tuning I believe the problem is when you drop back a bit farther because of whatever reason, it is far more difficult to have clean races.

I've observed that people new to iRacing tend to have the same problems. You start in Rookie, and to get out of Rookie you have to gain a certain amount of Safety Rating. And you have to gain that Safety Rating in what is probably the worst environment possible, new drivers and other people who haven't been able to get out of Rookie.

Some people will assert till they're blue in the face that it's impossible or needlessly difficult to get out, despite there being adequate evidence that if you put a driver with a high Safety Rating in Rookie they will be out in no time flat. It's about mindset. If you have a low Safety Rating, then getting that up is your number one goal. Winning races is not. The people stuck in Rookie are inevitably those who focus on racing and winning, rather than simply boosting their Safety Rating.

Winning races in low Safety Rating rooms is all about luck and nothing to do with skill, so really you want to be out of there quick smart to a place where your skill can actually matter. So if you have to sacrifice some places during the race to do so, then that's ultimately to your benefit. If you need trundle around in last for a couple of races to get back in the clean rooms, then do that. Yes, it feels bad, but the reality is that even if you're driving at the back there's enough morons out there that they'll spin off and trash themselves. You likely finish mid-pack even if you never pass anyone in anger on track.

It's about learning to play the long game, rather than expecting to be able to get back all your ratings as well as win the race. Pick what you want, and drive accordingly.

Some people find this difficult. Others find it impossible. Some people simply cannot deal with the idea of not trying their utmost to win every single race, every single second they're on the track. While it makes for great movies, it does not make for great race drivers. Great race drivers know when to plan and drive for future success.
 
This is a good idea , observe them and put them in there own room where they can go totally loos in the way they like to drive .

I dunno is it really that hard to go from newb to safe? It took 3 days for me to go from rookie to S on the SR. Still C on DR but since getying S I always start mid pack (6 or 7 place) I run to keep position and cut good lines. I usually move up a few positions and I lost my S at one point but shortly after got it back. I was surprised because the race I got it back in I took a penalty for being in somebodies way I guess as put me in the wall exiting a corner lol

Screenshot_2019-01-04-10-53-46.png


My thoughts was to just keep on as Im doing while my DR goes up and try to push 82 to 99 on SR
 
@Imari i wasn’t saying ban people’s game I said it would work.
The shadow ban wouldn’t ghost you it would just match you with other “griefers”. Frontier devs did it with elite on pc, keep griefing and you end up playing with other griefers.

I’m aware of the quote button but on my phone and it’s a pain to delete the bits of a post out I’m not referring to but thanks
 
Gran Turismo has always tried to make driving in virtual reality something everyone can do. It's a video game rated E for everyone. I don't think they should change that but serious competitors who dream of making the World Final's should somehow be registered and slightly separated from the everyday player who isn't concerned about their ratings so much as having fun playing a video game. With Gran Turismo becoming an officially licensed eSport, something should be done to create an even better racing experience for all players.

It doesn't make sense to try and roll everyone together. It would just be better to break it into the four categories from beginner to elite with the corresponding difficulty of the car category to match which is the usual format in real motorsport.

Ehmm no?
Driving like an idiot has absolutely nothing to with that, you could put to idiots in wheelchairs and they would still be able to crash everything and themselves.
The total lack of consequence is a problem, i report cheaters in Destiny, and they get banned. PD should have a proper report function so you can submit Video evidence on those that cheats and get them banned/demoted. That would make a difference, as it is now it is free for all, and it is hopeless.



HAHAHA where did that come from, you just returned from a good workout fully pumped on testerone and ready to punch everyone?
Fia races only allows TCS and ABS, hardly every assist there is, and there has been enough discussions on the assists and why settings are locked. If anything it promotes pure racing skills, instead of "who has the most time to setup the perfect car for this track" winners.

I've mentioned it before, but the basic characteristic of the average car designated for FIA races with the combined understeer and very intrusive effect of the ABS encourages aggressive braking and corner entry without any penalty at the worst of times, where instead the opposite should have been encouraged so that everyone would have developed a much higher regard for corner entries, which is then carried into RL as a bonus. I'm sure you've heard many times the TV commentators who praise those F1 drivers who are good in the wet and we marvel at their skill. GTS, given that it is becoming an esport, should be the same and demand similar skills. I occasionally look at the odd top ten replays and the number of drivers that would have destroyed their engine/gearbox on their TT lap in real life is very high.

Many seem to think that stock settings is all about pure racing skills, well I have to disagree with you as I've explained above.
 
I agree with pretty much everything you stated, but the problem is 99% of those are not safe drivers. And I agree it is hard to make it out of the environment. It is extremely difficult to steer clear of them every race. When they spin or head off track shall we stop and wait for them? No, we get stuck behind the next and cannot pass, then get sandwiched between them because #1 catches up.
I also need to correct myself, A rating is 10 points, be is also 20
On PS2? That was a long time ago, before online console gaming was really a thing. I'd hesitate before taking hints from an online game that old.

It's an option, but a fairly drastic one. It's in the same boat as banning by console or PS Plus, but if anything less effective. I think before you started doing any of those options you'd want to communicate first what was a bannable offense quite clearly. Perhaps establish a range of warnings and temporary bans before perma-banning their disc.

People get instant perma-banned for hacking in stuff like Overwatch, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about "dirty" driving, which has a pretty large range depending on who you talk to. Some of these players may legitimately think that what they're doing is legit, and some may simply lack the car control to do better.

I was playing a little Forza online tonight, and while there were a few taps that I thought were probably intentional, I'd say that the vast majority of contact was not. Most people just aren't really that good at driving games. Should they get a ban for that? I'd say probably not, but you may disagree.



Shadow banning means what exactly in this particular circumstance? They can race but they're a permanent ghost?

People are going to notice if they can't interact fairly quickly. Shadow bans work on social media because it's not immediately apparent to the user that they're not visible to other people. It's going to be pretty obvious in a game.



You can push the "reply" button in the bottom right corner of the post, and it will quote it for you to reply to. It will also notify the person you quoted that you've replied to their post.



I've observed that people new to iRacing tend to have the same problems. You start in Rookie, and to get out of Rookie you have to gain a certain amount of Safety Rating. And you have to gain that Safety Rating in what is probably the worst environment possible, new drivers and other people who haven't been able to get out of Rookie.

Some people will assert till they're blue in the face that it's impossible or needlessly difficult to get out, despite there being adequate evidence that if you put a driver with a high Safety Rating in Rookie they will be out in no time flat. It's about mindset. If you have a low Safety Rating, then getting that up is your number one goal. Winning races is not. The people stuck in Rookie are inevitably those who focus on racing and winning, rather than simply boosting their Safety Rating.

Winning races in low Safety Rating rooms is all about luck and nothing to do with skill, so really you want to be out of there quick smart to a place where your skill can actually matter. So if you have to sacrifice some places during the race to do so, then that's ultimately to your benefit. If you need trundle around in last for a couple of races to get back in the clean rooms, then do that. Yes, it feels bad, but the reality is that even if you're driving at the back there's enough morons out there that they'll spin off and trash themselves. You likely finish mid-pack even if you never pass anyone in anger on track.

It's about learning to play the long game, rather than expecting to be able to get back all your ratings as well as win the race. Pick what you want, and drive accordingly.

Some people find this difficult. Others find it impossible. Some people simply cannot deal with the idea of not trying their utmost to win every single race, every single second they're on the track. While it makes for great movies, it does not make for great race drivers. Great race drivers know when to plan and drive for future success.
 
Some kind of human stewarding, at the A+ level at the least, wouldn't go astray.

Banning is a bit harsh. That would have to be the last resort after many repeated acts of stupidity.
 
People absolutely should get suspended for being dicks in the FIA sanctioned races. Maybe not permanently but if they are repeat offenders then they deserve a long suspension at the very least.

Back in my Forza days, people used to send their replays of dirty drivers to an MS employee who frequented the fm.net forums. He would review them and hand out suspensions on his own. It was really entertaining when those suspended players came to the forum to complain, only to get shot down by said employee. Lots of people seemed to think they were entitled to play the game how they wanted, the reality was that purposely crashing other players goes against the terms of service.
 
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It's a lot harder to actually ban someone on PSN than it is on something like iRacing. A ban on iRacing loses you all your content, which unless you're at the very lowest levels is a significant amount of money. A ban on PSN simply means you make a new account.

There are ways around this, like banning by console or banning the entire PS Plus account, both of which have the potential for collateral damage in terms of other players in that household who have done nothing wrong. The public backlash likely wouldn't be worth it.

Because of the design of PSN, bans basically don't work. They could choose to have a minimum driver rating to enter the FIA events, but that sort of goes against their "everyone can have a go" mentality. Some people are legitimately bad drivers. Don't ascribe to malice that which is adequately described by incompetence.

The only thing I see working is what MOBAs and the like do with toxic people and dumping them into their own room. It might be possible to identify in software the difference between people who suck and those who are actively griefing. Other games have certainly tried, with mixed success. Separating those players until they demonstrate the desired behaviours is one way of keeping them from affected the "true" game experience too much.

Then again, it's online gaming. These sort of people can and will exist. I'd rather see game design being used to limit people's ability to play the game "wrongly" rather than simply expecting people to be all sunshine and roses to each other. It's a competitive environment. If you let people ram each other to win, then they're going to do so and it seems silly to expect them not to just because "gentlemen's honour" dictates that you shouldn't.

Maybe banning is the wrong word for the thread title. Temporary Suspension? I don't know. But in regards to the last statement, I agree. I don't expect everyone to be of a like mind. However, in real world racing, contact is extremely frowned upon in almost every motorsport due to the dangers and real world consequences. I don't expect the Daily races to always be clean as people do everything to find shortcuts, ridable walls, penalty glitches, etc. but when it comes to the F.I.A. events, which is my main focus for this topic, I think something needs to be done that will deter cheating.

A few days ago, I entered an F.I.A. event with ratings A and A. My Sportsmanship rating had dropped from an S due to earlier Daily Race incidents but by the end of the race, after being shunted at least 7 times by a single user, a user I watched intentionally wall 3 other people to make passes, my DR had dropped to a B and my SR had dropped to a D...I have until tomorrow's F.I.A. event to try and reach Sportsmanship Rating S but I know it will be impossible to get an A Driver's Rating by tomorrow as well. I went from being competitive in the top 24 North America Region to being ranked 58th with no real hope of getting back into the higher points lobbies. This is my concern as I have put a lot, probably too much, time into practicing for every F.I.A. event and hours of practice to be ruined by someone cheating isn't a complete waste of time and effort but it makes me not want to play the game for days on end. Frustration happens but to have all chances completely destroyed because of someone else's driving etiquette is unfair. Someone driving like that under official PD/GT Sport/F.I.A. supervision at a Regional, National or the World Championships would have been given so many additional penalties that they would probably end up at least a lap down.
 
On PS2? That was a long time ago, before online console gaming was really a thing. I'd hesitate before taking hints from an online game that old.

It's an option, but a fairly drastic one. It's in the same boat as banning by console or PS Plus, but if anything less effective. I think before you started doing any of those options you'd want to communicate first what was a bannable offense quite clearly. Perhaps establish a range of warnings and temporary bans before perma-banning their disc.

People get instant perma-banned for hacking in stuff like Overwatch, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about "dirty" driving, which has a pretty large range depending on who you talk to. Some of these players may legitimately think that what they're doing is legit, and some may simply lack the car control to do better.

I was playing a little Forza online tonight, and while there were a few taps that I thought were probably intentional, I'd say that the vast majority of contact was not. Most people just aren't really that good at driving games. Should they get a ban for that? I'd say probably not, but you may disagree.



Shadow banning means what exactly in this particular circumstance? They can race but they're a permanent ghost?

People are going to notice if they can't interact fairly quickly. Shadow bans work on social media because it's not immediately apparent to the user that they're not visible to other people. It's going to be pretty obvious in a game.



You can push the "reply" button in the bottom right corner of the post, and it will quote it for you to reply to. It will also notify the person you quoted that you've replied to their post.



I've observed that people new to iRacing tend to have the same problems. You start in Rookie, and to get out of Rookie you have to gain a certain amount of Safety Rating. And you have to gain that Safety Rating in what is probably the worst environment possible, new drivers and other people who haven't been able to get out of Rookie.

Some people will assert till they're blue in the face that it's impossible or needlessly difficult to get out, despite there being adequate evidence that if you put a driver with a high Safety Rating in Rookie they will be out in no time flat. It's about mindset. If you have a low Safety Rating, then getting that up is your number one goal. Winning races is not. The people stuck in Rookie are inevitably those who focus on racing and winning, rather than simply boosting their Safety Rating.

Winning races in low Safety Rating rooms is all about luck and nothing to do with skill, so really you want to be out of there quick smart to a place where your skill can actually matter. So if you have to sacrifice some places during the race to do so, then that's ultimately to your benefit. If you need trundle around in last for a couple of races to get back in the clean rooms, then do that. Yes, it feels bad, but the reality is that even if you're driving at the back there's enough morons out there that they'll spin off and trash themselves. You likely finish mid-pack even if you never pass anyone in anger on track.

It's about learning to play the long game, rather than expecting to be able to get back all your ratings as well as win the race. Pick what you want, and drive accordingly.

Some people find this difficult. Others find it impossible. Some people simply cannot deal with the idea of not trying their utmost to win every single race, every single second they're on the track. While it makes for great movies, it does not make for great race drivers. Great race drivers know when to plan and drive for future success.


Thank you very much for posting this, what a great post, thanks again for sharing. :)
 
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